Other Orthodox Lounge Thread

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
I think a key distinction here is between fun and joy. Since coming to Christ, I don’t think I have any fun any more. I am sometimes tempted to feel sorry for and/or appease friends and family who are now afflicted by my new boring/strict self (as many of them must see it), and just ‘be fun’. But you just can’t really make it happen when you see that fun is from Satan.

“...joy is a feeling of good pleasure and happiness that is dependent on who Jesus is rather than on who we are or what is happening around us.”

The fun stops. Jesus Christ never will.

(quote)
Exactly and the thing also is that in this inverted realm fun is seen as interesting, whereas serious activities are seen as boring. While in reality fun things become boring very fast and serious things become interesting. Once again this is the stark emphasis of fun in a femcentric society. You're a big threat to the system when you as a man are in a serious rational mindset, solving problems, thinking deeply. They want you out of that at all cost.
 

someaveragechap

Chicken
Oriental Orthodox
Hello. I am posting this here because I have insufficient points. But I was wondering, is using a fake vaccine card a sin? Not because I am not complying with the government, but because I am wondering if it is considered lying. What do I say to staff members who ask if I'm vaccinated, do I lie to them? And isn't me simply carrying the vax card, showing when they ask for it, lying already?
 

Poche

 
Banned
Catholic
Hello. I am posting this here because I have insufficient points. But I was wondering, is using a fake vaccine card a sin? Not because I am not complying with the government, but because I am wondering if it is considered lying. What do I say to staff members who ask if I'm vaccinated, do I lie to them? And isn't me simply carrying the vax card, showing when they ask for it, lying already?
I think you have answered your own question yourself.
 

Tom Slick

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Hello. I am posting this here because I have insufficient points. But I was wondering, is using a fake vaccine card a sin? Not because I am not complying with the government, but because I am wondering if it is considered lying. What do I say to staff members who ask if I'm vaccinated, do I lie to them? And isn't me simply carrying the vax card, showing when they ask for it, lying already?
Yes, it is lying and lying is (almost always) a sin.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Hello. I am posting this here because I have insufficient points. But I was wondering, is using a fake vaccine card a sin? Not because I am not complying with the government, but because I am wondering if it is considered lying. What do I say to staff members who ask if I'm vaccinated, do I lie to them? And isn't me simply carrying the vax card, showing when they ask for it, lying already?
With lying about it you legitimize the system. I just said I don't have a qr is that a problem? And you'll be surprised how often they say alright it's OK. That they ask for it doesn't mean they enforce it. My experience is 50/50 when they ask for it enforced or not, and quite often they don't ask at all. Carry your cross I suppose as we're all called to do. It's not pleasant, but we'll be hated by the world for standing in the truth, in every regard.
 

Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Hello. I am posting this here because I have insufficient points. But I was wondering, is using a fake vaccine card a sin? Not because I am not complying with the government, but because I am wondering if it is considered lying. What do I say to staff members who ask if I'm vaccinated, do I lie to them? And isn't me simply carrying the vax card, showing when they ask for it, lying already?
Yes it is lying. You are convincing someone that you have had a vaccine when you have not had one. Whatever justifications you might build around this, you are still being deceptive.

What kind of situations are you being asked to demonstrate your vaccine status? Is it a matter of keeping your job? If it was a case of colleagues just asking with nothing to back it up I'd just say "my medical business is between me and my doctor". If it is the case that they are asking you under threat of you losing your job upon failing to comply, I'd start fervently looking for a new job right away. I cannot really say what to do up until that point because I don't know how I'd act personally in a situation of my livelihood being under threat, but using a fake pass is not a viable long term solution. If you've gotta lie to your employer just to keep your job, you probably want to work for someone else. Think of it like a marriage, imagine you are in a situation wherein you are lying to your spouse every day about something, it doesn't put the whole relationship on a good footing. Get out of there if you can.
 

Jive Turkey

Kingfisher
Orthodox Catechumen
When I grew up there was a stark emphasis on having fun. In fact, I grew up in a family where let's say the masculine presence wasn't there and all was feminine, focused on emotions, feeling good, you're good as you are, conflict avoidance, doing everything for you, being happy, doing what you want and above all having fun. Now as I crashed in my 20s I came to realize that fun is a buzzword pushed by society to keep you in constant emotion, out of your rational mind, doing things that hurt you and are at the detriment to you. Hence I came to ask myself: is fun Satanic in itself? And isn't peace the Godly equivalent? No one in history would've ever had this idea of fun getting stamped in their head from the day they were born like we have today, in fact I'd argue that it would've been looked down upon tremendously as a not respectable way of viewing life. Peace, contentment, acceptance, appreciation, satisfaction would've been words of yesteryear, but not fun. What are your guys take on it? Is fun something that has benefit and value pursuing at all, or is it an idea that is to be discarded completely for the features I've mentioned when pursuing the spiritual life?
Father Seraphim Rose in the Orthodox Survival Course expounded on this.

He called America a "Mickey Mouse society" which I found very funny. Then not a few days later I was reading a protestant book on marriage (which was good btw, not a diss to protestants) and the author mentioned he wears a Mickey Mouse watch as a reminder to not take himself too seriously. I thought the contrast was funny. But I can see how with that author being a public speaker and leader of a Christian coaching non profitish type business it would be good to remind himself not to be too serious.

Edit: I think the concept which is more appropriate to criticize is amusement, or entertainment. The idea that we need to be continually pleasantly stimulated. The ancients and medievals knew how to have a good time. In European middle ages it seems like 1 out of 3 days was some kind of feast, festival or celebration. Even in modern Germany, especially rural Germany. There are town festivals usually two or three times a month. Something is always happening in community, and people are enjoying themselves. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
 
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Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
As I'm in the process of becoming a catechumen I wonder how do you guys deal with family members or friends who are not of the faith, let's say secular? As you grow in the faith and you understand the truth of it deeper and deeper including the consequences for eternal life in heaven and hell, I can imagine an increasingly stark need and urgency to bring these people to Christ. I can imagine this for example with my mother who was raised somewhat Catholic but isn't religious, plus quite attached to worldly pleasures and comfort. How to go about that? You can't make the horse drink after all and people without your experience will very unlikely be persuaded.
 

thatWay

Sparrow
Orthodox
As I'm in the process of becoming a catechumen I wonder how do you guys deal with family members or friends who are not of the faith, let's say secular? As you grow in the faith and you understand the truth of it deeper and deeper including the consequences for eternal life in heaven and hell, I can imagine an increasingly stark need and urgency to bring these people to Christ. I can imagine this for example with my mother who was raised somewhat Catholic but isn't religious, plus quite attached to worldly pleasures and comfort. How to go about that? You can't make the horse drink after all and people without your experience will very unlikely be persuaded.
This is something I have wondered about, also I think Roosh has an article.
From what I have learned you need to take it on a case by case basis and see if the person is receptive or hostile.
And most importantly focus on being a good example and your own progress in the faith.
 

Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
As I'm in the process of becoming a catechumen I wonder how do you guys deal with family members or friends who are not of the faith, let's say secular? As you grow in the faith and you understand the truth of it deeper and deeper including the consequences for eternal life in heaven and hell, I can imagine an increasingly stark need and urgency to bring these people to Christ. I can imagine this for example with my mother who was raised somewhat Catholic but isn't religious, plus quite attached to worldly pleasures and comfort. How to go about that? You can't make the horse drink after all and people without your experience will very unlikely be persuaded.
Plant seeds and pray.

I think generally people are unresponsive to being told "you need Christ." It's generally met with eye rolling. But Orthodoxy is the Truth and it contains stuff that will enter into the hearts of everyone.

When your friends or family come to you for comfort you can offer advice from the Holy Fathers. Not that you should shove this in at any given opportunity, but where appropriate share the wisdom you have learned.

And of course be a testament via your actions. Ask forgiveness when you do wrong and all that. If you provide a good enough example people will want to know what beliefs inspire such actions.
 

Paisios Harlan

Pigeon
Orthodox
As I'm in the process of becoming a catechumen I wonder how do you guys deal with family members or friends who are not of the faith, let's say secular? As you grow in the faith and you understand the truth of it deeper and deeper including the consequences for eternal life in heaven and hell, I can imagine an increasingly stark need and urgency to bring these people to Christ. I can imagine this for example with my mother who was raised somewhat Catholic but isn't religious, plus quite attached to worldly pleasures and comfort. How to go about that? You can't make the horse drink after all and people without your experience will very unlikely be persuaded.
I am going through this. I'm about two years in now. With the hardest cases in my family, I do not say anything. The only words they hear from me about Christianity are, "I'm going to Church." This is more than enough for some people. With others, we can share more details and discuss a little more. However, we need to remember to not throw pearls before swine, and that people are on their own timeline towards God. Saying too much to people too soon, without being asked, can end up harming them spiritually. We need discernment as to how much to say to each person. It takes experience, and with God's help, I think I'm learning more as I go as to how much to say to people. Be patient;)

As others mentioned, the way we be actual missionaries and witnesses is by our lives. If we are progressing spiritually, people will not see us angry, annoyed, engaged in secular activities, etc. as much. We will be more helpful, understanding, and loving towards people. True love is intertwined with freedom. All those around us are as free as we were before coming to Christ. God gives them freedom to reject Him, we must do the same.

And having non-believers in our family provides us with really good reasons to pray hard.
 

Poche

 
Banned
Catholic
I am going through this. I'm about two years in now. With the hardest cases in my family, I do not say anything. The only words they hear from me about Christianity are, "I'm going to Church." This is more than enough for some people. With others, we can share more details and discuss a little more. However, we need to remember to not throw pearls before swine, and that people are on their own timeline towards God. Saying too much to people too soon, without being asked, can end up harming them spiritually. We need discernment as to how much to say to each person. It takes experience, and with God's help, I think I'm learning more as I go as to how much to say to people. Be patient;)

As others mentioned, the way we be actual missionaries and witnesses is by our lives. If we are progressing spiritually, people will not see us angry, annoyed, engaged in secular activities, etc. as much. We will be more helpful, understanding, and loving towards people. True love is intertwined with freedom. All those around us are as free as we were before coming to Christ. God gives them freedom to reject Him, we must do the same.

And having non-believers in our family provides us with really good reasons to pray hard.
There is a story that goes with this. While she was yet a catechumen, Edith Stein would frequently visit the cathedral in Berlin. One day she saw a woman who sold flowers in the street enter the cathedral to visit and pray. Although this woman didn't say anything out loud, Edith Stein said that she preached a most eloquent sermon, better than any she had heard.
If we live the holiness that God calls us to live we can do like that woman who sold flowers in the street.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
As I'm studying the Church Fathers more, I'm gobsmacked by the amount of insight, wisdom and knowledge we've lost. Literally everything that's going wrong now, that one needs in order to live a fruitful non self-destructive life, everything has been known for centuries. How the devil could wash this all away through his secular Western global system is a fascinating feat, but also how people, as we have agency after all, have let all of this richness and treasury slip for the darkness, filthy and impure modern day secular system is the true tragedy of history.
 

Jive Turkey

Kingfisher
Orthodox Catechumen
As I'm in the process of becoming a catechumen I wonder how do you guys deal with family members or friends who are not of the faith, let's say secular? As you grow in the faith and you understand the truth of it deeper and deeper including the consequences for eternal life in heaven and hell, I can imagine an increasingly stark need and urgency to bring these people to Christ. I can imagine this for example with my mother who was raised somewhat Catholic but isn't religious, plus quite attached to worldly pleasures and comfort. How to go about that? You can't make the horse drink after all and people without your experience will very unlikely be persuaded.
In my experience just living by example works best. I stopped seeking fornication, drinking, and started going to church and my friends noticed and began asking me some questions expressing positive interest.


Intellectual arguments will mean little if you aren't letting your light shine, so to speak. Let God transform your heart and people will notice the change and become curious
Intellectual arguments
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Moderator
Orthodox
My wife and I have been struggling to choose Godparents for our son. There just aren't that many married Orthodox we know who take the faith seriously and who have had good judgment in our times. There is one couple with children middle school and high school aged we decided to ask. We knew them from church but not extremely well, only meeting them in the past year, so they asked us to visit them so we could get to know each other better. They're still hesitant to say yes after that meeting but it was an enlightening experience to see what an Orthodox family looks like. I learned that the father disobeyed the Church authorities including our priest and continued going to Church during the lockdown, basically implied he would have to be arrested. He commented that the whole Church should have refused the leaders of our Church and gone anyways -this was after I criticized the leaders, so he turned it on me, saying I should have gone, but in a nice way. Very true and humbling! Who am I to make such a comment? I am no better than them.

Found out that they have already refused several people who wanted them to be Godparents because they didn't think the people asking took it seriously enough.

The mother stayed at home for many years after the children were born and now only works a few hours a week. The children are homeschooled though they do have some online classes, much much less on an hourly basis than actually going to school. They remarked that society is too corrupted to let your children be overly involved with it nowadays. Even group sports were no good they said, as how can you take your children to evening vespers or the Lenten services if they're in a group sport?

They stated that it is very important to teach your children obedience. They once gave their children some soup for dinner and the one daughter refused to have it so the father said "that's alright, you'll have it the next meal." That went on for quite a few meals until she finally did eat it and then there were never any problems after that. Children are also served last and they are never asked what they want. The children do not have internet on their phones and the family doesn't have a television. One of the daughters is now reading "Spiritual Warfare" by Saint Theophan the Recluse.

And get this - most of the family actually sleeps on boards with a thin mattress pad over it. They showed us the beds, and the beds are in fact hard, but it is apparently good for the back and you get used to it.

The family also has chickens and a garden. Suffice it to say they seem like a very saintly family. It was inspiring to see that you can live that life and have a saintly family in the midst of our metropolitan area so at least if they say no (praying they say yes), I learned a lot about how to be an Orthodox parent.
 
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