News Orthodox response to Coronavirus / Great Reset

wesley93

Chicken
I had the chance to speak with a Monk from mount Athos that was visiting for a friend's wedding. He was a very holy and intelligent man I could tell who loved the Lord. I was frank with him and told him I was troubled by everything going on and that this seemed like a good set up for a mark of the beast situation. He did not come out directly against the vaccine and I did not push it further. He told me to stay focused on God rather than all the evil going on in the world which I believe really is the key.
 

Mike Contro Rossi

Pigeon
Orthodox
I had the chance to speak with a Monk from mount Athos that was visiting for a friend's wedding. He was a very holy and intelligent man I could tell who loved the Lord. I was frank with him and told him I was troubled by everything going on and that this seemed like a good set up for a mark of the beast situation. He did not come out directly against the vaccine and I did not push it further. He told me to stay focused on God rather than all the evil going on in the world which I believe really is the key.
Mt Athos is a mixed bag these days...There are very pious monks there, but the Phanar is stacking the Mountain with his fanbois too.
 

NickK

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Unfortunately Vatopedi seems to be in a bad place after recently accepting the Ukrainian schismatics as well.
They did not accept them yet as far as I know. It was the first monastery in Mount Athos to publicly announce that the canonical bishop of Kiev is Met. Onouphry, and it is said that in private conversations Abbot Ephraim still renounces them.

As for the vaccine, it is very sad that he encouraged people to get it on TV. He hasn't forced his brotherhood to get it and the monks are split in half. The monastery had its own independent science team to review the vaccines and apparently their conclusion was that some of them are ok. :(
 

Basilus of Moro

Sparrow
Orthodox
They did not accept them yet as far as I know. It was the first monastery in Mount Athos to publicly announce that the canonical bishop of Kiev is Met. Onouphry, and it is said that in private conversations Abbot Ephraim still renounces them.

As for the vaccine, it is very sad that he encouraged people to get it on TV. He hasn't forced his brotherhood to get it and the monks are split in half. The monastery had its own independent science team to review the vaccines and apparently their conclusion was that some of them are ok. :(

VATOPEDI MONASTERY DECLARES SUPPORT FOR CONSTANTINOPLE AND PATRIARCH BARTHOLOMEW​


I will say that perhaps the elder is just confused. He seems to think this vaccine is like the others, and even took it rather strangely after getting COVID. I hope he takes this to prayer, and that God enlightens him. He should consult the many venerable elders who advise against the vaccine. He also said this was his "personal opinion" or rather the equivalent in greek. This is good, as it allows for correction.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox

Useful for our Australian members: an open letter to the New South Wales premier, written by a ROCOR deacon with the blessing of Bishop George of Canberra, who has shared the Orthodox vaccine religious exemption document. I'm just quoting the preface before the letter below, click the link above for the letter itself:

The most chilling aspect of the current response to the Covid19 pandemic is not simply the interminable lockdowns or other inconveniences we must endure to stem the spread of the virus, not is it the economic fallout forcing the closure, sometimes even the permanent failure of numerous small business, although this is in itself a serious concern. By far the most disturbing aspect is the disregard for the foundational ethics of the medical profession, the necessity of individual informed consent for any medical treatment or prophylactic measures, and the now mandatory requirement for certain citizens of New South Wales to participate in the medical experimentation programme of vaccination trials currently running under the TGA's provisional pathway.

Placing any kind of coercive pressure upon any group of people to participate in medical experimentation is a violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, to which the Commonwealth of Australia is party state, and which is the foundational document for the Commonwealths Human Rights Commission Act 1986.

As a clergyman in the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, I feel compelled by my conscience to advocate on behalf of those members of my community whose rights are being violated in this manner, and as an Australian Citizen since 2005, I am likewise compelled by my oath of allegiance "to Australia and it's people, whose democratic beliefs I share, whose rights and liberties I respect, and whose laws I will uphold and obey."

This afternoon, with the blessing of His Grace, Bishop GEORGE, I sent the following correspondence to the NSW Premier and Minister for Health and Medical Research. Please read the letter, and I urge you to stand up with me and be counted on this matter. Take a moment to write to your State representative and politicians and let them know that these measures are unacceptable and that human rights are not negotiable and human beings are not cattle!
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
In 2001, when there was less government tyranny, a Holy Synod of the bishops of the Orthodox Church in America had this to say, in the context of embryonic stem cell research, the logic of which would lead us to conclude all available covid vaccines in the US, including the FDA approved one, are immoral (emphasis mine):

From the perspective of Orthodox Christianity, human life begins at conception (meaning fertilization with creation of the single-cell zygote). This conviction is grounded in the Biblical witness (e.g., Ps 139:13-16; Isaiah 49:1ff; Luke 1:41,44), as well as in the scientifically established fact that from conception there exists genetic uniqueness and cellular differentiation that, if the conceptus is allowed to develop normally, will produce a live human being.[1] Human life is sacred from its very beginning, since from conception it is ensouled existence. As such, it is "personal" existence, created in the image of God and endowed with a sanctity that destines it for eternal life.
President Bush's proposal to use only the existing sixty lines of stem cells [2] because the embryos had already been destroyed (i.e., killed) falters on the precept enunciated by the apostle Paul in Romans 3:8, "We may not do evil so that good may come." The very act of destroying those embryos is evil, and we may not profit from evil even to achieve a good and noble end.

Although the President's Solomonic decision appears to serve pro-life interests, in fact it unwittingly opens the floodgates to ever more utilitarian manipulation of human life.
In conclusion, we firmly reject any and all manipulation of human embryos for research purposes as inherently immoral and a fundamental violation of human life.

I recommend you all add this to your exemption documents, this is the best thing I've seen so far for an American or Canadian Orthodox Christian trying to get a religious exemption.

 
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Basilus of Moro

Sparrow
Orthodox
I wrote this up somewhere else (not on this forum). The purpose of this is to serve as a foundation for answers to questions related to the Covid vaccine, science in general, and why we rely on the saints for such things.

Before any of us talk about particular empirical claims related to COVID, we must be clear on how “science” arrives at its conclusions, and how this differs from the manner by which the saints qua saints (as distinguished from those who become saintly later, but made various claims prior to this) come to know God’s will, and acquire discernment of spirits. But before that, we must distinguish between how things were known prior to the fall, and how things are known now.

God gave the world its multitudinous forms, girded by appearance. In the beginning, when man had not yet fallen to death, the thing and its appearance were not so different. Irrational passion had not yet entered in, and the imagination did not yet serve as the waking bridge between man’s willings and desires. He was moved instead by the things God had made, and indeed by God Himself, living, and knowing Him beyond. Lies had not yet formed his inner life. The story of the world, its past, and its future were all held together in man by the Logos of God. Then man knew the causes and circumstances of things, if he asked of the one who directed it all.

The things of science, then, were known by man’s knowledge of God, and the logoi of God. Man did not go out into the world, reasoning discursively, utilizing numerical stand ins for things (data), nor did any confusion prevent him from knowing. When man fell, all of that changed. The origin and fate of all things, all causes, were obscured. Now words ceased to carry the full weight and origin of the thing itself, and were locked in a constant struggle between appearance, fantasy, and reality. The known structure of everything fell apart, so much so that we cannot even understand that prelapsarian world, except for those who know it.

With reference to how these things were known and how they are known today, Wolfgang Smith, following Fr. Seraphim Rose, speaks truly:
“To be precise, the Patristic understanding ofParadise is mystical in two respects: first, because it insists that the nature of Paradise exceeds categorically what the ‘carnal man’- St. Paul’s psychikos anthropos-is able to comprehend; and secondly, because it claims that the things of Paradise can in fact be ‘seen’ when certain degrees of contemplation have been attained. St. Gregory the Sinaite, for instance, speaks of this explicitly when he explains “the eight primary visions” accompanying the state of perfect prayer, when things previously hidden ‘are clearly beheld and known by those who have attained by grace complete purity of mind.’ 11 And I would add that there are in fact no other means by which the things of Paradise can be known: the purified mind constitutes the only ‘telescope,’ the one and only ’scientific instrument, by which these things can be brought within range of human observation.The Wisdom of Ancient Cosmology, p112.

After the fall, the world retains its many causes, although death and decay grind down all things - which are new laws. Science post-eden involves taking note of causes, effects, and their relationships. The way the relationships are known is by observing the effects of their combination, and of their absence. This works well enough for a time, on small things, but saying anything substantial requires populations (or groups) of things, that are assigned a value of some range, charted, modeled, and given a certain predictive scope. Often, the values assigned to things are conventional, representing disparate things under a single term or property. For example, one might say 1 instance of flu will be assigned for every positive test for the flu. This does not entertain the variety of meanings of flu, since some have the flu in the sense that they have sniffles, whereas others have the flu in the sense that they have severe fever and nausea. Moreover, the test is a stand in for the reality, that is, the actual flu virus in the person. The flu is also many things, since many viruses qualify under that heading, and many people acquire viruses, but do not acquire sickness.

This is all to say that there is root conventionality in modern science. There is a certain anti-reality to it, and this explains why it is possible to misunderstand relationships, causes, effects, and also why manipulating them is possible. An important point, stated differently, is that science involves abstraction of a sort that is often times non-essential, that is, it does not pick out true disparate causes, but rather conventionally unifies many causes as one, although these causes are clearly and distinctly different at important levels and not properly united. For example, the vast array of medicines, cellular components, amino acids, proteins, and bodily structures are clearly different, relying on different rules (at some level) and effectual relationships, yet for the sake of convention, they are called one thing, but the problem is that this obscures the nearly endless combinations and obscured effects that escape simple analysis. This in turn leads to many potential errors in calculation, representation, and inference. I of course would not deny that we can speak of things like “proteins,” since they do exhibit similarities that renders them “proteins”, yet this does not escape the problem of conventionality given the variety of effects and relationships.

The purpose of discussing the things of the body is to assign functions, and while these are true at some level, they fall apart when one gets very specific, and seeks to make delicate predictions about the introduction of new highly refined chemicals and medicines into the bodily matrix.

This goes to show that medical science is imprecise, at bottom, and thus can and will fail. Indeed, medical science is so limited it barely exists. There is really just the art of medicine, which only permits a vague kind of predictive power given the limitless varieties of human health, which depend on a vast sea of genome, environment, and mysterious powers unknown to all. This is of course why the doctor ought not be a soulless wretch, and why we should seek out those doctors with discernment, who humbly beseech God to make up for their ignorance, as we must pray as well. Medicine then is not neutral of divine things. If it betrays or ignores such, it becomes instead a tool of destruction, even demonic prolongation of life. St. Gregory Palamas urged someone in one of his writings to seek out a pious doctor to determine if one could not fast for health reasons. Moreover, much of the results of modern medicine began with the exhumation and desecration of the dead, as a seedy search for profane and even occult knowledge. While some may pretend the former unity of alchemy, magic, and science was more about imprecision and a failure to understand causes, I think instead these represented a revelation of the methods and goals of its originators.

Forgive that imprecise exposition of the limits of science. Father Seraphim Rose does a much better job at discussing these issues in “Genesis, Creation, and Early Man,” although he does not apply this to medicine. The key as always is that the only firm and unshakable knowledge is that that shares in the Logos of God, in whom we live, move and have our very being. His ways and aims and forms are not identical with thoughts, propositions, and terms, through which a world of discourse and rational inference can be constructed. On the contrary, His Ways are not our’s. The story of things is revealed to those who know Him. This is how our holy ones direct men to salvation, knowledge, and true joy. To be with Him is to have acquired the only sure knowledge. We must then flock to the saints of our times to know his divers ways.

In reply to our detractors, it is sometimes sufficient to show how evidence and data can be interpreted and modeled in various ways, especially in ways that do not contradict our saints. All stories, even intuitively ridiculous ones, can be modeled mathematically. It is only a stated reliance on “beauty,” “simplicity,” and probably a good deal of cultural yearnings, yearnings of anti-christ, that renders certain scientific models more popular. I recall coming to this realization when a philosophy professor, contrary to his intended effect, told me “any scientific claim, even geocentricism, can be made to fit the data.” Then I realized science is beholden to man, and not the other way around.

In our days especially, but always, it is sufficient to follow the saints:
“The mystery of the incarnation of the Logos if the key to all the inner symbolism and typology in the Scriptures, and in addition gives us knowledge of created things, both visible and intelligible. He who apprehens the mystery of the Cross and the burial apprehends the inward essences of created things; while he who is initiated into the inexpressible power of the Resurrection apprehends the purpose for which God first established everything.” - St. Maximus in Centuries on Theology and Economy (1.66)
 
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Yallbeparticular

Pigeon
Orthodox
I’m not sure this is the exact thread for this but what is the Orthodox position against the death jab? When I sent in my own exemption request I cited the aborted cloned fetal cell testing which I believe to be a grave moral issue abhorrent to the orthodox faith. But looking through exemption examples, I later came across an example written by a Baptist that, although not worded the same as I would, seems to really get to the heart of why I don’t want to take it. He mentions that we trust our health to the Lord and we ask him to heal us when we get sick. Taking the jab takes this opportunity away (assuming the jab actually works) . To me this lines up with what Fr Josiah Trenham has said about St Basils view on medicine, that we shouldn’t be overly preoccupied with preventative health care. I would add that we do use medicine when where necessary but we do not think it’s a Christian attitude to try to extend our lives with unnecessary medical interventions. What do you all think?

here’s the link to the Baptist one. https://lc.org/Site Images/Resources/examples/Old-New-Testament-Exegesis.pdf

also here’s another link Fr John Whiteford shared with other exemption templates, including an orthodox one. https://lc.org/exempt
 

Mulato_Man_Gabe

Pigeon
Orthodox
My priest shared this video with parishioners and a couple of bishops in ROCOR - I decided to back it up on Odysee. It's a very intense commentary and my favourite COVID take from clergy so far. Extremely powerful.

Fr. Savaas Agioritis tells of several stories of Priest Monks encounter with both the Covid Vaccine and the testimonies of demons (!!) to reveal to us to spiritual truth of what's happening today. In greek with subtitles.

We have reached a point where our church authorities will not reveal the truth, so we get it out of the mouths of demons. What an age we live in.

 

Magnus Stout

Robin
Orthodox
Good post, @Mulato_Man_Gabe.

While demons lie (so perhaps there are half-truths mixed in), my spirit tells me that Fr. Savaas Agioritis is speaking Truth. For example, we know that the Pentagon has been working on vaccines to target "religious extremism":
Could the vexx be part of that unveiling? Could that be part of the Final Mark?
 

orthoaussie2121

Pigeon
Orthodox
This is a transcript of an interview on the official synodal site of the ROC - MP.

https://synod.com/synod/engdocument...nIsyU2555VKk7XB-YO6-4oNyBV6DTud6ePokgpzWfI8SY

This is an excerpt re the virus and the jab.


Metropolitan Hilarion:
It is Very Important That We Sense Ourselves in the Bosom of the One Russian Church
Dmitri Zlodorev​


How is the Church handling the pandemic now?

Metropolitan Hilarion: In my opinion the pandemic did not affect Church life very much as such. Still, it did affect our flock. At first people could not attend church, but thank God now everything is changing
. Vladyka Nicholas, what do you think?

Bishop Nicholas: In our Eastern American Diocese we tried to be very careful from the very start of the pandemic. In many parishes the number of people allowed to attend services was limited. Sometimes it was one or two people, maybe 10. But priests continued to perform divine services, sometimes they were aided only by a reader or choir singer. Thanks to this, prayers in our churches and chapels continued throughout Great Lent, Passion Week, and on Pascha until the authorities began to soften restrictions.

– Many people in the Church fear vaccination. What do you advise your spiritual children when they ask you?

Metropolitan Hilarion: Vaccination is not a new thing, it has existed for a long time, so people should not fear it. For instance, I was vaccinated as were many others. But some are very alarmed by this. In this case the Church makes no recommendations: we do not advise people to be vaccinated, nor to reject vaccination. This is the free choice of every person.

Bishop Nicholas: We merely call upon people to pray, and the Lord will help them whatever they do.

I for one as a member of ROCOR find this response to be very disappointing. Rather shameful in fact. What planet are these people living on?
"At first people could not attend church, but thank God now everything is changing." Not here in Australia. And Met. Hilarion is still Archbishop of Australia and NZ. What about the lockdowns?
"Vaccination is not a new thing, it has existed for a long time, so people should not fear it. For instance, I was vaccinated as were many others. But some are very alarmed by this. In this case the Church makes no recommendations: we do not advise people to be vaccinated, nor to reject vaccination. This is the free choice of every person." Where does one begin with this statement? First it is not a vaccine, it is mRNA gene therapy. Second, vaccinations have existed for a long time, but there is every reason to fear them. The whole history of vaccines is medical fraud and has been from the very beginning. Jenner was a witch doctor who conducted experiments on living humans . As for Dr Jonas Salk , Jay Dyer did an expose on him years ago. Third, by taking the jab His Eminence has given tacit endorsement to taking medical treatments developed using tissue from murdered babies. Nothing to see here, just move right along. Fourth, it is not a free choice. What about the Government coercion and the implementation of vaccine passports? The people losing their jobs for refusing to participate? Not his problem I guess.
" We merely call upon people to pray, and the Lord will help them whatever they do." The Pontius Pilate defence. Just wash your hands of the matter.
Lord have mercy.
 

Magnus Stout

Robin
Orthodox
Thoughts & speculation: if we assume that God is ultimately in control and that He does not permit Satan to have the means to deprive Men of the ability to choose Good over Evil (such as a perfect deception), then we seem to be living through conditions ripe for the Great Apostasy (while still permitting Men the means to stay faithful).

Consider: responsibility is equal to power. In that respect, think about what we have now (instead of in previous generations):
  • Mass literacy;
  • Mass numeracy;
  • Free instant global communication;
  • Free (& low cost) access to most human knowledge (secular & religious); and
  • Sufficient leisure time to independently evaluate critical truth claims.
These factors (& others) mean that those who choose Evil (even if following misguided leaders) have no personal excuse: anyone who wants to avoid Evil, can avoid Evil. Any leaders--religious or otherwise--promoting Evil can be exposed through the conditions God has willed. We must stay vigilant and ultimately serve God over Men.
 
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