Blade Runner
Pelican
So your recommendation is to go where you can that is sane about it. The final straw for all of this will of course be when everyone is "vaccinated" and they still have all the same restrictions.
Orthodox response to Coronavirus / Great Reset
- Thread starter Roosh
- Start date
Roosh
Cardinal
"A pious woman had a dream. The Blessed Mother appeared, saying, 'Take off these masks at last!' And another woman who was alert and attending a Church service when she saw satan putting masks on the faithful, the supposed faithful that is, in reality to the unfaithful, bragging in front of Christ: 'Here, see, these are all mine!' And Christ answered: 'I don't know who those people are.'"
Roman Maronite
Pigeon
So much wisdom to be had from our Orthodox brothers. I pray for Christian eccumenism under the banner of Jesus Christ. Amin
Blade Runner
Pelican
Yes, this is one of the few occasions for even personalities like ours (and I think it is in a sense a blessing) to be sad about being "right."
I am, for sure.
Roosh
Cardinal
The excerpt shook me a bit. So many people in church think they will be saved. So many who pray "in Jesus' name" think they are serving His will, but they have been led astray. We need to continually examine ourselves as Satan's worldly plans progress to ensure we have not been deceived.
UserUnavailable
Chicken
After taking this video into account; if one is forced to put a mask on in Church, or exit the building - would the latter be the better option?
Many claim to wear the mask in Church not out of fear for the virus, but rather in fear of the authorities - perhaps even Church leaders. Could this be compared to the faithful who often had to hide their faith during the brutal communist Russia days and even other oppressive regimes?
Are we as faithful expected to reject masks entirely and perhaps be ostracised from a Church and/or Churches? Would taking this approach potentially weaken ones spiritual state as they can no longer attend services?
Roosh
Cardinal
^^ Very hard questions that I've struggled with myself. If you are not allowed to stay in a church without a mask, then I've read elsewhere from a priest (probably an article on orthochristian or russian-faith.com) that you are being persecuted. Your level of faith should help you decide what to do.
Blade Runner
Pelican
I can say without a doubt that I have experienced suffering for this very persecution. One must be careful for using it as an excuse for not attending, but the reason I know I'm not full of crap is that I sense a part of who I am, what I need to fulfill, or who I am supposed to be as a human (which is the liturgy and seeking God) is missing due to the fact that I can't bring myself to go to places formerly where I had such good relationships, fellowship, etc. but now have (mostly old) narcs on every corner either annoying you, shaming you or outright kicking you out for not wearing or wanting to wear a mask. It is essentially an unwelcoming environment based on fear and they are clueless as to how sick these actions really are, and how detrimental to the "faith" (and their faith, sadly) it is.
We could have an entire thread on this, but I'm also very interested in a certain concept that I've noticed, and noticed even more as we have entered the wheat and chaff times. I started to really become aware of it as I reached late 20s into 30s and was fully formed as an adult for various reasons. What I have noticed (and this has been pointed out to me by good friends of mine) is that I have expectations of honesty and ego in people that are very rare. That is, most do not possess an honest analysis of who they are or how they relate to the world and will be honest with you about it, which is the only thing I'm really asking. As an example, most of us here are knowledgeable, no BS and clear cut --- which can be "annoying" to others who have had trouble navigating their families and the world and overly focus on the gray areas (I've noticed this creep towards relativism) rather than principle. It usually manifests as overemphasizing emotion rather than truth, integrity, action. I personally don't have hangups, insecurities or any problem with honest self assessment since either the way I'm made or the way I related to the world cherishes the understanding of faults so that I can improve. Please trust me when I tell you that I am not boasting here. It has been reported to me by good friends who know me that this is seemingly asking too much in a sense, and I'm starting to believe that's actually the case, that most people have tremendous insecurities from either bad childhoods or bad relationships, questionable/poor self esteem, or all of the above.
The reason I bring up this point in the longer second paragraph is that I've noticed that it is really bothersome for many people for others to have a strong conviction, and hold a line, on particular concepts that are actually quite clear in the paradigm, or in this case, let us say orthodox practice and teachings. Of course any person can go too far with this, but I've had many discussions with people that I thought knew I had love for the church, my brethren and all things orthodoxy --- only to find out that they don't like it that people are criticized for doing things that are not of the orthodox faith or practice. Appeals to compromise, "meeting in the middle," sappy suggestions about what love is, etc. They hate it when you point out that Christ himself had all sorts of characteristics that include (though we don't stress them, and I point this out) anger and firmness to outright challenging others and being mean (calling a woman a dog) if you want to put it that way. The quick summary I guess is that people hate it when you ask questions that expose their foundation-less positions, but all I want is for that person to just admit that there is something to be considered, studied, followed up; that is, something to learn from instead of rejecting important principles to save them from dealing with their insecurities or frailties. Isn't denying these things living in delusion? That's sort of my point.
Well, I hope someone can identify with my experiences as they are quite saddening to me, and since I take no pleasure in this I think it also a proof that it has absolutely nothing to do with my ego, rather, it points out that I should be grateful for my upbringing and all the gifts I've been given.
Essentially, yes, by subjecting the worship of God to the dictates of Caesar, you're rejecting the First Ecumenical Council and saying Arius was right. We're a smaller Old Calendarist Greek Orthodox group, so we don't have the problems larger groups experience. Masks have always been entirely optional in my church, my priest seems to agree with my views. Being personally very sensitive to the symbolism, I'd ban them if I could, I'd also remove the restriction for the number of persons. It's a slow process, but people are slowly seeing more of what I see.
Blade Runner
Pelican
I agree with you. I'm not sure I follow the link of the First Council/Arianism to the dictates of Caesar, though I think this is clearly wrong and problematic, yes.
DanielH
Pelican
My GOARCH parish is probably more strict than any of yours with masks and social distancing (thankfully we still do communion with one spoon). I think I'm going to ask my priest if I can just wear a face shield from now on instead of the mask. I don't like hiding my face and not seeing people's faces. I think the face shields look silly but I'd rather not hide my face.
My home parish is down to only allowing 9% of maximum occupancy, completely self imposed by the parish council. This means I can go about once a month (they make you register online). So to bypass that I've been driving much farther and across an expensive toll bridge the other three weeks to go to a Ukrainian parish.
I'm very distressed by this all. This parish is bleeding members. How many souls are being lost through this? Why are we afraid of a virus that can only harm the body? I want to be obedient to my spiritual father and my bishop but this is so wrong. Archbishop Elpidophoros just published a book about covid. Maybe I'll read that so I can raise my concerns in good faith.
I can't envision this parish ever going back to how it was. 9% capacity, masks required, social distancing, they take your temperature and record it, they make you register online. When it's the summer what'll it be? 25% capacity and maybe they don't record your temperature? Maybe by 2023 they'll be back to full capacity with masks still required. They've taken such drastic measures that the inertia of the fear will take many years to dissipate.
And my wife just got a job as a nurse on a covid floor so she will be excommunicated... It feels like persecution.
My home parish is down to only allowing 9% of maximum occupancy, completely self imposed by the parish council. This means I can go about once a month (they make you register online). So to bypass that I've been driving much farther and across an expensive toll bridge the other three weeks to go to a Ukrainian parish.
I'm very distressed by this all. This parish is bleeding members. How many souls are being lost through this? Why are we afraid of a virus that can only harm the body? I want to be obedient to my spiritual father and my bishop but this is so wrong. Archbishop Elpidophoros just published a book about covid. Maybe I'll read that so I can raise my concerns in good faith.
I can't envision this parish ever going back to how it was. 9% capacity, masks required, social distancing, they take your temperature and record it, they make you register online. When it's the summer what'll it be? 25% capacity and maybe they don't record your temperature? Maybe by 2023 they'll be back to full capacity with masks still required. They've taken such drastic measures that the inertia of the fear will take many years to dissipate.
And my wife just got a job as a nurse on a covid floor so she will be excommunicated... It feels like persecution.
Pdalion
Pigeon
Can you partake of the sacraments after the service? In my case if the church is filled to capacity we watch the live broadcast, and come in to receive communion as the other parishioners leave. If data is an issue maybe watch at home and leave so as to arrive near the ending. This way you don't miss out on the principal part of the service.
DanielH
Pelican
Thank you, I'll bring that up with my priest if my wife isn't allowed to go to church otherwise. They haven't done that so far but that's a good idea.
We agree that beliefs have political implications right? Jesus Christ is God, he desires good action, and voluntary co-operation between all. Nicaea attempting to outline the faith, and the implications thereof, set the king/patriarch on an equal playing field. The King can rage against the church, by imprisoning/martyring it's leaders, and the Patriarch/Metropolitan can excommunicate the King showing his impiety to all.
I believe the political implication with Arianism is that the Son of God is a creature, and thus, subordinate to the Father. Jesus Christ, is the head of the church, and the emperor/king is the ruler of the fatherland, which means the Church, becomes subordinate to the (Father)empire. I would suggest this is why Constantius II, being a power hungry man that murdered his relatives, sided with the Arians. It's also why he thought he had the authority to depose St Athanasius by sending Gregory of Cappadocia. It's unsurprising that the Arian heresy was advocated by many in powerful positions. The life you live affects what you believe, and vise versa.
In the same manner, if you accept that the government can apply rules to worship that demean/diminish the faith, it's the same imposition. I may be wrong, I'm only a layman. Thoughts?
My church does that exact same thing.
Blade Runner
Pelican
Yes, I just wanted to follow your thoughts because I know you are an intelligent man.
I wonder what reasonable workarounds can happen because I'm quite sure the fraud of progression from "flatten the curve" to CDC guidelines to vaccine to "Nah, keep wearing those masks" will be so clear, even the lemmings that still listen to the powers that be will be totally aware of their weakness and complicity to the fraud.
I wonder what reasonable workarounds can happen because I'm quite sure the fraud of progression from "flatten the curve" to CDC guidelines to vaccine to "Nah, keep wearing those masks" will be so clear, even the lemmings that still listen to the powers that be will be totally aware of their weakness and complicity to the fraud.
SingularityOne
Pigeon
Fantastic article on how trust in God’s Providence and the embodiment of the virtues of the Holy Spirit are the eternal path unto salvation. Worldly kingdoms will pass away but the Lord’s Kingdom is eternal. Fear God, not man.
www.pravmir.com
What Should We Do About The Great Reset? | A Russian Orthodox Church Website
Which is probably why my parishioners are wanting me to tell them what I think after I watch the video they sent me, a video decrying the Great Reset and the terrible loss of religious freedom that is taking place and will certainly get worse.
DanielH
Pelican
The Broken Covenant — Monomakhos
Long letter claiming to be from a group of anonymous OCA priests about how their bishops have failed them with regards to covid measures.
Roosh
Cardinal
Antiochian Patriarch has cucked out on the vaccine:
orthochristian.com
Question of vaccination is outside realm of theology, consult your physicians—Antiochian Patriarchate
The Church also calls upon all to face the present situation with sincere repentance and prayer, working to remain united with all in the Church, regardless of differing views on the vaccine.
DanielH
Pelican
-Mass apostasyAntiochian Patriarch has cucked out on the vaccine:
Question of vaccination is outside realm of theology, consult your physicians—Antiochian Patriarchate
The Church also calls upon all to face the present situation with sincere repentance and prayer, working to remain united with all in the Church, regardless of differing views on the vaccine.
-Pornography pandemic
-Lowest confession rate among Orthodox since the USSR
-Imminent schism
-Churches closed and singing banned within your patriarchate by governments
Hmm, what should we say in our official encyclical?
“Vaccine is good everyone, not just this one but all vaccines! Also good job for making this one so quick, isn't that neat? Thank you scientists who hate us and at best think we're backwards luddites!”