Orthodox response to coronavirus

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
I have found that what I sense when seeing foolishness like masks, and understanding what I do about the (non lethal) virus, I am very disappointed in the approach and leadership by these archdioceses. What's more, appearing to be pawns of the state, they cannot even tell us when things might change (just as our overlords) even when I have told them that this test is just the beginning.

How have you found the response? I'm sure a silent portion of priests don't like it, but even then some of them go along with all of this anti human masking, asking people not to sing, "distance", change in communion, etc.
 

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
Who was attacking, Michael? I saw a letter from a bishop with one of his priests thoughts on the issue ... that was OCA

In that letter I found it really odd that they would challenge his apostolic succession or recognized status. Why not just address the problems at hand? Or consider Dr. Tselengides, who isn't speaking as a priest but as a thoughtful layman, about his points and defend your own. I saw that as very weak when I first read it, very defensive, emotional and typically what a leftist would try --- delegitimize the person instead of stick to the topic at hand.
 

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
Is there any compromise you've all made regarding the mask stuff, veneration of icons, secular power over the church, etc? I don't even trust that this is going to change much even, for many more months, and it's curious that the desire of some bishops to do or ask you to do xyz for the "love of your brother" is also at a cost to your (more faithful?) brother. I perceive many more traps are coming ...
 

Aboulia

Robin
I think 1 Corinthians 10:28-33 applies here, although we're not eating, we're performing actions as sacrifice to the idol of public opinion. Ideally, you should have no issue wearing a mask yourself, but you're to be bothered with the impact it has around you; with that in mind, to wear a mask is not to love your brother, to wear a mask is to make the statement "either you or I or potentially diseased, and there should be additional barriers between us". I don't believe my brother should be treated as a leper. In my parish we have a few people that wear masks, and it really bothers me. I need to sit down and flesh out a list of why it shouldn't be then talk to the priest.

If veneration of icons were prohibited, or communion was altered/ceased, there would be no reason to go to church, since the priests/bishops put themselves outside the Orthodox church. The real church would be underground again, for those things are not optional.

It's not going to change, social distancing alienation is here to stay. It was the whole point of this mass hysteria, to further break down bonds and divide people, so they won't rebel when the economy disintegrates. I didn't foresee the enforcement of masks, but it makes sense why they're pushed from a control perspective. Climate change didn't bother many people, but the germ fearmongering sure did.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
I think 1 Corinthians 10:28-33 applies here, although we're not eating, we're performing actions as sacrifice to the idol of public opinion. Ideally, you should have no issue wearing a mask yourself, but you're to be bothered with the impact it has around you; with that in mind, to wear a mask is not to love your brother, to wear a mask is to make the statement "either you or I or potentially diseased, and there should be additional barriers between us". I don't believe my brother should be treated as a leper. In my parish we have a few people that wear masks, and it really bothers me. I need to sit down and flesh out a list of why it shouldn't be then talk to the priest.

If veneration of icons were prohibited, or communion was altered/ceased, there would be no reason to go to church, since the priests/bishops put themselves outside the Orthodox church. The real church would be underground again, for those things are not optional.

It's not going to change, social distancing alienation is here to stay. It was the whole point of this mass hysteria, to further break down bonds and divide people, so they won't rebel when the economy disintegrates. I didn't foresee the enforcement of masks, but it makes sense why they're pushed from a control perspective. Climate change didn't bother many people, but the germ fearmongering sure did.
Consider yourself lucky... in my parish about 80% wear the face mask.
 

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
I made the same point as well, the suggestion is that others are unclean, when in reality they are healthy and asymptomatic. Do we have to point out of the parable of the Good Samaritan? "And likewise, a levite 'social distanced' to the other side"
 

DanielH

Woodpecker
I went to church today worried that I would be turned away at the doors. I didn't register early enough online to get a spot on the list but I went anyway. I was allowed in but if there was another parish council member at the door I'm fairly certain I would not have been allowed in.

The Church is strangling itself by complying with these orders (not even laws by the way). At my parish, the state only allows less than a quarter of the normal Sunday parishioners to attend, masks must be worn, and the icons are taped off (Lord have mercy). How do you spread the Gospel when you won't even share it with your flock? It would be better to go underground at this point.

I understand the necessity to comply with laws that are not sinful, but I believe taping off icons and basically closing 75% of the church is horrible. Those icons aren't museum paintings.
 
At my Trad Catholic church, we have been having drive-in Masses where the priest will bring communion to people but you have to get out of the car and kneel (with the exception of one very old lady who had trouble moving and they let her stay in the car and receive communion). Is this blasphemy?
My opinion might seem extreme but I believe that veering from tradition even the slightest isn't good and surely turning a church into some sort of Eucharist drive-thru is blasphemy.

Then again, that is what my soul feels. I'm no priest or clergy, so maybe they could elaborate.
 

Aboulia

Robin
I went to church today worried that I would be turned away at the doors. I didn't register early enough online to get a spot on the list but I went anyway. I was allowed in but if there was another parish council member at the door I'm fairly certain I would not have been allowed in.

The Church is strangling itself by complying with these orders (not even laws by the way). At my parish, the state only allows less than a quarter of the normal Sunday parishioners to attend, masks must be worn, and the icons are taped off (Lord have mercy). How do you spread the Gospel when you won't even share it with your flock? It would be better to go underground at this point.

I understand the necessity to comply with laws that are not sinful, but I believe taping off icons and basically closing 75% of the church is horrible. Those icons aren't museum paintings.
Why do your hierarchs think icon veneration is optional?

 

Rob Banks

Pelican
My opinion might seem extreme but I believe that veering from tradition even the slightest isn't good and surely turning a church into some sort of Eucharist drive-thru is blasphemy.

Then again, that is what my soul feels. I'm no priest or clergy, so maybe they could elaborate.
Well they were getting out of their cars for communion, so not really a “drive-thru.”

But in any case, what if the only options are either to have drive-in Mass or no Mass at all?

In your opinion, would no Mass at all be better?
 

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
No one sends us, necessarily, anywhere. We are given paths to take and yes, we choose to go to dangerous places at times. I think this is the sad truth about the current situation: we are being set up to go further into directions without a goal or without THE GOAL in mind and focus, and no one is urging us to turn around to face Him.
 
Well they were getting out of their cars for communion, so not really a “drive-thru.”

But in any case, what if the only options are either to have drive-in Mass or no Mass at all?

In your opinion, would no Mass at all be better?

Well honestly, if they are changing the way mass is supposed to be done...then it really isn't mass at all and has been twisted into something else in my opinion.

Maybe better to disobey the law, even though the Bible says not to...because the laws are completely unreasonable/unfair/insane/etc and should be broken.

In fact, I see it as a duty to disobey the enemy.
 

DanielH

Woodpecker
Why do your hierarchs think icon veneration is optional?

If that video is correct, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, then I'm in a bad position. Both my church and my fiancee's church, which I am getting married in, have forbidden kissing the icons.

This is a lot of pressure for me as between my two younger siblings and my fiancee, they look to me for guidance. I'll have to talk to my priest, who is my spiritual father, about this and mention this canon.
 
Why do your hierarchs think icon veneration is optional?

The way to Heaven and the way to not go to Hell is to accept our Lord Jesus Christ into our hearts.

Not showing veneration to icons isn't a sin. That isn't stated in the Bible as a requirement to reach our Lord.

I understand this:

In the Orthodox Church icons are venerated with the understanding that veneration is not paid to the material icon but to the person or event represented “in spirit and truth” (John 4: 24).

But then, there is also this:

Rom. 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

I am well aware that icons are not idols, but
believing that veneration is required to reach Heaven is like saying all Christians and non-Orthodox are bound for Hell...
 
Refusing to venerate icons, which is neither “worshiping” nor “serving” either them or the deified people represented on the material, can bring about an anathema as per the 8th Ecumenical Council. It is showing respect to our family in Heaven, the Church Triumphant, asking their prayers and reminding us of our true nationhood. I know it seems weird to Protestants, as it seemed to me when I was making the transition from Wesleyanism to Orthodoxy, but they now bring me tremendous comfort and inspire me to higher degrees of faith, hope, and love. Praying without them is just not the same anymore.

Romans 1:25 was about the pagan practice of worshipping objects in which they believed God dwelled, or actually were a “god.” It’s like worshipping the sun or moon, except something made by human hands and, subsequently, even more degraded a practice (in my opinion) than at least worshipping cool and mysterious things in the sky. Iconography is not idolatry.
 
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