Personal and home defense strategies

Easy_C

Crow
Someone mentioned a baseball bat, and I responded that unlike a baseball bat nunchucks have precision and speed. This is not a comment without insight. I was really trying to dissuade the use of a bat which is not a good defensive weapon. I also mentioned that nunchucks are illegal in most states so that men consult their local laws. I have also practiced with nunchucks for over 30 years so I was commenting on something to which I have direct knowledge. In another post, I also mentioned pepper spray which is realistically the best alternative for walking outside. In my opinion carrying a gun is not a good idea, and if you need to carry a gun you are living in the wrong neighborhood.
That's why your post isn't good advice. You're speaking from YOUR perspective. Nunchucks are probably better than a bat for you. Obviously if anyone has expertise or familiarity with a specific type of weapon then use that.

Your average layperson without the benefit of being a 30 year nunchuck expert is far better served by easier to use weapons. For them nunchucks will not have "precision and speed" but will be an unwieldy, clumsy weapon they will have difficulty effectively employing.

In my opinion carrying a gun is not a good idea, and if you need to carry a gun you are living in the wrong neighborhood.
One of the best books on the topic is "in the gravest extreme" by ex-cop Massad Ayoob: https://www.amazon.com/Gravest-Extreme-Firearm-Personal-Protection/dp/0936279001



He addresses some arguments including the one you gave for why "people shouldn't carry guns" for self defense and more or less states why they're horrendously bad.
 

nordle

Newbie
Here in Ireland, it's fairly illegal to have a gun, so I just have the Irish version of a baseball bat, a "hurl". It's not the best, but I do have a strong corrugated iron fence outside my house. I've had to use it only once a few years ago on a crack head who was directly outside my house. I never knew I could hit a woman until she threatened my home, and it took maybe 0.1 seconds to decide to give her a few belts of the stick.
 

SlickyBoy

Ostrich
Did he fire it out the window or did it go off in the car? Can't honestly see how a 12g going off in a car wouldn't be at least seriously unpleasant. But firing it out of the window allows the car itself to shield most of noise.
He shot it out the open door at a car radiator, so a lot of the noise went outside, but even so I barely noticed it. And that was a slug with a good charge to it. A bird load has a lot less juice and therefore reduced concussive effects if fired inside, but it'll sting the target.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
This video covers it pretty well. At in-home distances bird shot will still send someone to the emergency department and could have other uses which cannot reasonably be discussed here.


You can jump to 7:30 for a brief intro before the shot and the autopsy.
 

Easy_C

Crow
One thing I have not seen mentioned so far: invest some time getting to make a friend in your area’s local law enforcement system, at least assuming you live in a municipality or township where that’s feasible. You’ve got much better odds of beating a charge if the arresting officer is someone you’ve pounded a few beers with.
 

R.G.Camara

Woodpecker
. In another post, I also mentioned pepper spray which is realistically the best alternative for walking outside. In my opinion carrying a gun is not a good idea, and if you need to carry a gun you are living in the wrong neighborhood.

We are ALL about to be living in the wrong neighborhood. They are disbanding police forces and the communists have been rioting for ten days and are showing no signs of stopping. And they are talking about going to the suburbs.

Get a gun NOW before your neighborhood becomes a war zone. And practice with it. My application is going in this week (blue state).
 

R.G.Camara

Woodpecker
Home Defense:

2. A reliable guard dog- Their presense alone and barking will serve as a deterrent (German Shepards are ideal, avoid Pitbulls who will probably eat your neighbor's kids after)
If you don't have the ability to care for a bigger guard dog (i.e. apartment is too small, no yard, size restrictions, don't have time to care for it, a little too fearful of having a big one), consider a small, yappy, but aggressive dog.

Specifically I'd recommend a dachshund (yes, weiner dogs) or a chihuahua, or perhaps a rat terrier. They are small, incredibly yappy, and yet are surprisingly aggressive, and will even go after bigger dogs and humans and bite them. Here's my reasons for these dogs:
  • They are very good alarms. they will bark at minor noises and won't stop, giving you a heads up and scaring off criminals. They too tend to keep barking a bit too much, but too much is better than too little.
  • The dogs I mentioned "don't know they are small" and thus will attack larger dogs and humans who threaten them. Aggressively. Which means they do attack threatening humans. "Professional" burglars often avoid chihuaha homes, because the dogs are so bitey and loud.
  • Loyal and protective (like all dogs) to their owners. They will defend you if they feel you are threatened, often surprisingly fast. More sensitive to your feelings than some other breeds.
  • Don't take as much food or exercise as a big dog.
  • Bonus: they will kill mice, rats, and small vermin. So if that's a problem where you live, hey, they will clear them out and they'll be too scared to come back.
  • Second Bonus: they are a good excuse to go for a walk with if you need to recon an area or just get outside. But not good for jogging because of their short legs, so if you want a jogging dog get a young bigger dog.
I have personal experience with dachshunds, and I can say that they are a very good apartment- or small-home defense dog. Just don't get them fat (they have back issues). NB: Dachshunds were bred to fight badgers. And not just fight them---to go into the badger den and fight them in there. Hence their long bodies and their extremely bred-in aggressive natures if threatened (badgers are notoriously aggressive).
 

Renzy

Kingfisher
Here in Ireland, it's fairly illegal to have a gun, so I just have the Irish version of a baseball bat, a "hurl". It's not the best, but I do have a strong corrugated iron fence outside my house. I've had to use it only once a few years ago on a crack head who was directly outside my house. I never knew I could hit a woman until she threatened my home, and it took maybe 0.1 seconds to decide to give her a few belts of the stick.
Tangential to the thread, but in all these places where guns are simply illegal, do you guys not have any hunting as a sport there at all? Or does it exist and it's bow only?
 

Stadtaffe

Sparrow
Gold Member
I don't live in an area where you can easily get hold of a gun, or where there is significant risk of home invasion but at times where there has been a hightened risk, I am mindful of the powder fire extinguisher I have anyway in the event of fire. It's not pepper spray but that stream of white powder would be quite unpleasant in the face and then you could surely wack them with the canister..
 

Sisyphus

Robin
When you're walking in a city (where most of the activity is happening at least for now), you need to be able to size someone up and decide whether or not they're a threat in less than a second. Basically what you see in the first person view of the Terminator. You need to develop efficient search patterns: as soon as someone is determined to not be a threat you ignore them and direct your attention elsewhere. Once someone is determined to be a threat, you must distance yourself from them while keeping an eye on them (but avoiding eye contact at all costs*) as the best defense tactic is to not get involved in a violent situation in the first place. Don't worry about "hurting their feelings" if you cross the street to avoid them or ignore someone's attempt to engage you in conversation.

Your search pattern should incorporate the posture and gait of the individual, what they're carrying, how they're dressed, who they're with, and how they're talking. Riots notwithstanding, race is a factor of minimal importance - under normal conditions in many large cities, a white tweaker is just as likely to cause you problems as a black thug. Any of these factors alone can help you to make an informed decision in less than 2 seconds; more sources of information allow you to make your determination even quicker. Someone carrying a food delivery bag is not a threat - dismissed immediately. A flaming homosexual is not a threat - dismissed immediately. Someone bobbing their head around, walking with lots of unnecessary horizontal swinging, and mumbling to themselves - avoid immediately. Two adolescents ribbing each other, a couple having a normal conversation - ignore immediately or nod if you feel the need to acknowledge their presence. If you have enough experience walking in a city, you should be able to spot a "crazy walk" or otherwise distinguish the sort that you want to avoid from at least 100 yards away.

Another useful thing is to use other people's reactions to your advantage. In the same manner that you can tell if someone is to be avoided, you can also determine if other non-threatening people know what they're doing. If someone like that is walking in front of you and then crosses the street to avoid someone who's still too far away for you to size up, then just follow their lead. You have nothing to lose in this situation.

Otherwise, as others have said, your posture and gait are also of prime importance. Don't adopt submissive loser body posture or project fear. Shoulders back, head parallel to the ground, blank expression, eyes forward. Walk quickly, but not hurriedly, and don't fiddle with your damn phone. You must also know how to identify a bad neighborhood in an instant. Bars on windows, graffiti, pawn shops and check cashing stations at every corner, questionable characters, visible drug deals, trash/filth, run down or abandoned houses, grimy bodegas, and numerous other cues. If you don't know how to evaluate bad people or bad areas then now isn't a good time for you to be learning firsthand.

*The importance of avoiding eye contact cannot be overstated. For various shades of psychos and malefactors, eye contact triggers some animalistic instinct that sends them into a frenzy and encourages themselves to attach themselves to you. Walking by them in the exact same way, even within arm's reach, but without making eye contact prevents this instinct from being triggered. Your concern is what they're doing with their hands and where they're pointing their body. The information you get from looking at their eyes is of minimal value - if you need to see their deranged expression to know they're not right then it's too late for you. Avoiding eye contact will also allow you to ignore their attempts to speak to you without repercussions.
 

R.G.Camara

Woodpecker
I don't live in an area where you can easily get hold of a gun, or where there is significant risk of home invasion but at times where there has been a hightened risk, I am mindful of the powder fire extinguisher I have anyway in the event of fire. It's not pepper spray but that stream of white powder would be quite unpleasant in the face and then you could surely wack them with the canister..
Use a knife, pepper spray, or something else.

Outside of the initial shock and confusion of the hit of the stream, what comes out of a fire extinguisher does nothing. My buddies and I used to get drunk and spray my friend's fire extinguisher for his apartment at each other right before we passed out. It didn't do anything but make us giggle at covering our faces and bodies with white foam.

And unless you're strong the canister is a bit too heavy to get swinging as a proper weapon. And the time you spend grabbing it and trying to figure out how to spray it is a precious second or two you could use grabbing a more useful weapon.

Remember seconds count.
 
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Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Would you feel comfortable firing a shotgun if a loved one was standing next to the threat you were aiming at?

The spread alone, not to mention buckshot goes through drywall like any other round, was enough for me to choose the AR Platform or a .45 pistol (with a tactical light) over a shotgun for home defense. It's just not worth the risk.
This is a 00-buck pattern at 20 feet -- and 90% of all self-defense shootings happen at less than 10 feet. At 10 feet, the balls would almost be a sold mass. As for velocity, both 00-buck and 9mm have similar velocities at about 1,200 fps. A 12-gauge has the best stopping power, period.

a buck.jpg
 
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Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Who said anything about a .22? Your neighbors in the low-end, drywalled apartment complex might disagree about buckshot being a great idea. Bird shot gets the job done and lessens your potential manslaughter liability. One slight advantage to shitty construction is the bad guy just might hear you rack that shotgun before deciding to kick in your door.

BTW, don't waste your money on those pocket faraday cages for your phone - they don't work.
You cannot assume things. Back when bullet-proof vests came on the market, people discovered that a common .22 rimfire penetrated better than most centerfire pistol rounds. Having said that, a 12-gauge will penetrate better than a .22 long rifle round.

BTW: At close range, bird shot is akin to a slug -- and almost as effective.
 

kel

Pelican
If I live in a deep blue state with complicated gun laws, and I drive down south to a state with laxer laws, and I go to a gun show and find a private seller, what will they ask me for as far as ID? Can I just show them a passport to prove I'm a citizen without revealing the fact that I come from a state with restrictive laws? Will they ask me what state I'm from, and put me through the rigamarole of the state I live in and do a transfer to an in-state gun dealer and all that?
 

Renzy

Kingfisher
If I live in a deep blue state with complicated gun laws, and I drive down south to a state with laxer laws, and I go to a gun show and find a private seller, what will they ask me for as far as ID? Can I just show them a passport to prove I'm a citizen without revealing the fact that I come from a state with restrictive laws? Will they ask me what state I'm from, and put me through the rigamarole of the state I live in and do a transfer to an in-state gun dealer and all that?
Kel, I'd go to a gun store in the state you want to purchase and they will walk you through it. I live in MD (blue state) and the laws here for handguns had quite a few steps too. It's been several years since I purchased a handgun, but as I recall getting the HQL was tedious - you have to take a class ($) and get your certificate, then get the instructor code when you apply for an HQL (more $), get fingerprints (more $$) to submit to the state police, then when you buy the gun fill out another form and wait for that to come through. At any rate, the stores will have iPads or laptops and will walk you through it.
 

kel

Pelican
Yeah, but I want to stay off a list if at all possible. I want to find a guy who I give cash and he gives me the gun. It's not the money or the background check I'm worried about (I'll pass) themselves, it's being marked as a gun owner. Anti-2A types are always talking about this "gun show loophole", but as far as I can tell there's not much of a loophole there.
 
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