Personal and home defense strategies

SlickyBoy

Ostrich
^there isn't. The dealers at the show are dealers in any other context, with federal firearms licenses. Any "loophole" may have to do with private sales between individuals that happen at the show, which would ordinarily happen by way of a classified ad, craigslist post, etc. An individual isn't required to get an FFL to sell his rifle, though there may be state and local laws.

Regardless. the laws at the gun show aren't different because of a supposed loophole.
 

kel

Pelican
Right. So what's a private seller going to ask me for? Forget the gun show, that's just an easy place to find lots of guns. Say I find a craigslist ad in Tennessee, just Joe Sixpack selling his old revolver. I drive down, try it, I'm happy with it, I want to buy it. What kind of papertrail is this guy going to want to leave? What kind of ID is he going to ask for?
 

Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Right. So what's a private seller going to ask me for? Forget the gun show, that's just an easy place to find lots of guns. Say I find a craigslist ad in Tennessee, just Joe Sixpack selling his old revolver. I drive down, try it, I'm happy with it, I want to buy it. What kind of papertrail is this guy going to want to leave? What kind of ID is he going to ask for?
It really depends. If a particular State does not require reporting a private-party firearms sale to the State, then it is entirely up to the seller. I would call ahead and, near the end of the conversation, ask "Is cash OK?" The answer will be "Yes." Then say: "In return, I would want a receipt." He will answer "Fine." Then ask: "Anything else you need from your end, aside from the cash?" Either he says "No" or he launches into why he wants ID.

If he says "No" and you want to push it a bit (he may not even consider the issue of ID until the sale, unless you raise the issue on the telephone), follow up with: "You need an ID or anything?" Many gun owners are libertarian and could not care less. Ideally, line up a few potential viewings in the area and, if a sale falls through, then move on to the next.
 
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Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
Tangential to the thread, but in all these places where guns are simply illegal, do you guys not have any hunting as a sport there at all? Or does it exist and it's bow only?
I'm not an expert in international gun law (hobbyist at best) but most European nations have clay shooting licenses that allow you to take your guns an ammunition home with you. In the UK if I'm not mistaken you can even get 3 shot semi automatic shotguns which are far superior to double barrel guns for a number of reasons.

When people say "we're not allowed to own guns" they usually mean "for the stated purpose of self defence".

There are usually ways for them to own guns but they require at least offering the pretense of being involved in sports shooting, collecting or hunting.
 

Hypno

Crow
Right. So what's a private seller going to ask me for? Forget the gun show, that's just an easy place to find lots of guns. Say I find a craigslist ad in Tennessee, just Joe Sixpack selling his old revolver. I drive down, try it, I'm happy with it, I want to buy it. What kind of papertrail is this guy going to want to leave? What kind of ID is he going to ask for?
I have never sold a gun but if I did I would ask you to sign a bill of sale. That way, if the gun is later used in a crime, I have a clear record that I no longer owned it. Seller will probably want to see your ID to make sure the name you put on the Bill of Sale is legit.

Ideally, they would want to know that you are not a felon. I don't know the legalities, but it would be bad juju to sell a gun to a felon. People will get more comfortable selling to you if you hang out on gun forums, have mutual acquaintances/referencesa, and/or buy a nice piece rather than a saturday night special.

The alternative is to buy new or buy through a gun broker. But you fill out the federal form and your name goes in the computer. Listen, the government already knows you own that gun anyway. Also, if you apply for a concealed carry permit you name goes on a list also. So the federal form and background check is not that big of a deal, at least where I live since it only takes about an hour.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
Trying to stay off of lists like that is a waste of time. There are tens of millions of gun owners. If the Feds ever crack down then it will be against dissidents, not every Fudd and Fife with a deer rifle. And they will assume the dissidents are armed no matter what their database tells them.

In fact if the database (possibly AI by now) flags you for likely owning a gun despite having no specific paper trails then you will be marked for special scrutiny and be among the first rounded up. Searching for accessories. Buying ammunition in cash but pinging facial recognition software from the traffic camera next to the gun store. One drunk shitpost. God forbid you have to buy a part for the gun or go to a licensed range to learn how to use it etc etc.

If you live in America at least you don't have to live in constant fear merely for having a gun. There is no way regular gun owners are going to be rounded up. How? By who? It's simply impossible. Trying to be secretive is only going to limit you massively in your ability to practice with your weapon as well as acquiring ammunition, accessories and training, to say nothing of having to buy an untested firearm from a random when you have no background training to know if it's safe or perhaps even functional.

I understand the paranoia but it's simply not worth it in this case.
 

Dr Mantis Toboggan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
If you don't have the ability to care for a bigger guard dog (i.e. apartment is too small, no yard, size restrictions, don't have time to care for it, a little too fearful of having a big one), consider a small, yappy, but aggressive dog.

Specifically I'd recommend a dachshund (yes, weiner dogs) or a chihuahua, or perhaps a rat terrier. They are small, incredibly yappy, and yet are surprisingly aggressive, and will even go after bigger dogs and humans and bite them. Here's my reasons for these dogs:
  • They are very good alarms. they will bark at minor noises and won't stop, giving you a heads up and scaring off criminals. They too tend to keep barking a bit too much, but too much is better than too little.
  • The dogs I mentioned "don't know they are small" and thus will attack larger dogs and humans who threaten them. Aggressively. Which means they do attack threatening humans. "Professional" burglars often avoid chihuaha homes, because the dogs are so bitey and loud.
  • Loyal and protective (like all dogs) to their owners. They will defend you if they feel you are threatened, often surprisingly fast. More sensitive to your feelings than some other breeds.
  • Don't take as much food or exercise as a big dog.
  • Bonus: they will kill mice, rats, and small vermin. So if that's a problem where you live, hey, they will clear them out and they'll be too scared to come back.
  • Second Bonus: they are a good excuse to go for a walk with if you need to recon an area or just get outside. But not good for jogging because of their short legs, so if you want a jogging dog get a young bigger dog.
I have personal experience with dachshunds, and I can say that they are a very good apartment- or small-home defense dog. Just don't get them fat (they have back issues). NB: Dachshunds were bred to fight badgers. And not just fight them---to go into the badger den and fight them in there. Hence their long bodies and their extremely bred-in aggressive natures if threatened (badgers are notoriously aggressive).
I'd add West Highland Terriers to that, they're tough little SOBs, usually about 15-20 lbs full grown but were also bred to fight foxes and badgers. Never heard of one being even remotely human aggressive but they'll never back down from other dogs or animals. Had 2 as a kid (not at the same time) and they were amazing dogs. We have a Rottie/GSD mix who is the best dog I've ever had but getting older, looking at getting a companion/successor for him, wife wants a lab or retriever but I'm going for either a Westie, another Rottie/GSD, or purebred GSD.

 
Some great posts from everyone, I would say the current "Rules of Engagement" are avoid the engagement at all costs, I am personally heavily armed but now is not the time to get involved in any kind of use of force situation, I would absolutely flee from the situation as much as possible. If you choose to defend yourself or take offensive action you will be arrested and the protesters/rioters will not. It's that simple. Do not leave your vehicle and do not stop moving in your vehicle. Drive off the road, on the sidewalk, whatever you have to do to get away without running anyone over. If you find yourself cut off from the police/military, I would still call 911 and have them tell you something such as "Do what you have to do" and then you at least have a record of that, but I would still only use as much force as necessary.

I think it is not just likely but actually a good thing for the situation to deteriorate further. People need to be reminded of the realities of the world, you can't just go around committing violence and go unpunished. The concept of strong men allowing weak men to cause havoc is absurd and these weak and brainwashed men and women need to be put in their place.
 

ArizonaGuy

Pigeon
I would like to add here that new gun owners are best served with a 12ga shotgun next to their bed, like the Mossberg 500 JIC if it is available in your city. I am a proficient gun owner and that's what I have for the 3am bump in the night. Plug-in LED motion sensor lights in hallways (and solar ones outdoors) serve well to illuminate areas instead of a weapon-mounted light.

Also I agree with Red_Pill_Medic above: flee if possible in an outdoor setting. Don't lust for an engagement. You win every fight you're not part of. The potential legal consequences for you and your family are large. That said there are orgs you can join to help legally protect you AND develop your mental framework for decision making in such a situation: https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/ and https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/
 

Easy_C

Crow
It's also usually very easy to do outdoors with a mediocum of situational awareness.

If you can't another tip is to try to retreat to somewhere that you've got witnesses. For example, you can duck into a convenience store (for example). That way an aggressor has to make the conscious decision to follow you in (which helps you legally) and you ensure that camera footage is available of the incident.
 

R.G.Camara

Woodpecker
I'd add West Highland Terriers to that, they're tough little SOBs, usually about 15-20 lbs full grown but were also bred to fight foxes and badgers. Never heard of one being even remotely human aggressive but they'll never back down from other dogs or animals. Had 2 as a kid (not at the same time) and they were amazing dogs. We have a Rottie/GSD mix who is the best dog I've ever had but getting older, looking at getting a companion/successor for him, wife wants a lab or retriever but I'm going for either a Westie, another Rottie/GSD, or purebred GSD.

That thing looks too cute, and I can't imagine it bearing its teeth and looking fierce. One thing I like about dachshunds and chihuahua's in this scenario is that, while they are adorable toy dogs, when they get angry and start growling they look surprisingly nasty and can actually make you take a step back. Its why I think they're good for defense in these times.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
A dog purchased for defending the family is in essence a soldier and unfortunately must be treated as such, with a degree of expendability related to his mission.

Your little terrier is not going to put down a determined attacker but it can buy you enough time with its warnings to get armed and enough time with it's assault to give you a clear shot.
 

Matsufubu

Pelican
Anyone got any experience owning Rhodesian Ridgebacks? I've always had big dogs but never a Ridgeback; they sound pretty badass but living with it day to day is another thing.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
A good dog, but you're going to be feeding it with a shovel and cleaning its turds with one too.

I think Belgian shepherds and dogs about that size give you more bang for your buck. I'd sooner feed two of them than one ridgeback.

For an attacker one large dog is a horrible thing to deal with but two medium sized dogs is a nightmare.


 
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Dr Mantis Toboggan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
That thing looks too cute, and I can't imagine it bearing its teeth and looking fierce. One thing I like about dachshunds and chihuahua's in this scenario is that, while they are adorable toy dogs, when they get angry and start growling they look surprisingly nasty and can actually make you take a step back. Its why I think they're good for defense in these times.
They're tough little bastards, they don't seem to have any human aggression gene whatsoever unlike some other small dogs like Chihuahuas but will still bark at any unfamiliar sound which is realistically the best you can expect from any dog that size.

 

Gradient

Kingfisher
When talking about "home security" a lot of people start talking about guns, and which one is best, and "you're an idiot if you think a 9mm is enough..." bla, bla, bla.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm a staunch gun advocate, and have two safes full of them. Plan on getting more.

But what is most often skipped is the much less sexy point of your home's perimeter. Without effective perimeter defenses, your gun will still be where ever you happen to keep it as the assholes are kicking in your door.

A proper home perimeter:
  • Deters intruders by letting them know, "this area is off limits".
  • Delays intruders with physical and or psychological barriers.
  • Notifies the perimeter's protectees as early as possible that a breech is in progress.
We can break down perimeters into two major sections:
  • Outer Perimeter - Serves primarily as deterrence and notification.
  • Inner Perimeter - Serves primarily as physical barriers. (locks, doors, bars, etc)
By the time the asshole approaches the inner perimeter, your outer perimeter should already have notified you of the breech. This should give you time to recognize that you may be under attack, and begin to follow whatever your defense plan (you do have a defense plan, right) may be.

The most important objective to keep in mind is that your perimeter buys you the most valuable thing you will have in case of some type of attack - TIME.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
This guy made a good video about a basic DIY perimeter alarm system. Low tech but cheap, and it still works in a blackout.


A lot of defense is psychological. If someone opens your garden gate or vaults your fence and one of these things goes off then it triggers an "oh crap" response which is important for a number of reasons.

1) The intruder knows that now you know he's there (pros and cons, but mostly pros).
2) He's going to abandon hope that the houses is an easy target and possibly just leave.
3) His adrenal dump is going to start early and wash out sooner if a prolonged conflict beings.

Personally I'm a fan of billion-candlepower floodlights and bone-shaking sirens. I would never hook them directly to an alarm system but I'd happily wire them to an independent power source operable at the flick of a switch. Enough decibels at the right frequency will literally make you lose your balance and throw up.
 
This is a 00-buck pattern at 20 feet -- and 90% of all self-defense shootings happen at less than 10 feet. At 10 feet, the balls would almost be a sold mass. As for velocity, both 00-buck and 9mm have similar velocities at about 1,200 fps. A 12-gauge has the best stopping power, period.

View attachment 23291
That's a good illustration.

In order to dismiss the shotgun "aim in the general direction" myth, the analogy I heard and that I find to be easily understood is that at home defence distances, it's akin to throwing a softball to hit someone: you still have to aim.
 
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