Plant-Based Diets?

MichaelWitcoff

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Hey folks, I just watched a documentary called Diet Fiction. It was basically vegan propaganda, but they made what seemed like solid points. I've also noticed over both of the past two years that during the 47 days of Lent/Holy Week, when I'm vegan for the entire course of that season, I inevitably feel great and don't get so much as a sniffle - but then when I go back to a regular diet, I start getting colds and feeling full and bloated again. I haven't done that kind of diet long-term though, so I was curious if anyone here has experimented with a long-term plant-based diet and if so, what the results were like for you.

Just for reference, I'm 32, about 6 feet tall, 177 pounds, with a normal BMI and all my lab and test results show me being in the right range for all the various things people track.
 

JayR

Woodpecker
MichaelWitcoff said:
I was curious if anyone here has experimented with a long-term plant-based diet and if so, what the results were like for you.
Yup, I went WFPB-NO (Whole Food Plant Based-No Oil) over two years ago. Best thing I ever did for my health. I saw the same positive results you are seeing when you go plant-based during Lent -- I dropped 30 pounds and 3% body fat in the first two months and have held steady there since. GERD and snoring both stopped. Currently 5'11", 165lbs, and 12.5%BF in my 50s and feeling great. The only supplement I take is B12.

Listen to your body and ignore the bros saying you'll eventually resemble a toothless Cambodian refugee if you go plant-based. The only thing likely to happen is that the positive health effects you enjoy during Lent will become permanent.

I haven't seen "Diet Fiction," but I did catch "The Game Changers" at a screening last week. Check it out when it hits the streaming services next week:

 

MichaelWitcoff

Hummingbird
Orthodox
My diet's probably slightly better than average for an American, which is admittedly not saying much. Being Orthodox means I'm vegan just under half the year so that helps me offset it. My diet is pretty carb and bread heavy, and one or two times per week I'll have something like a burger or California burrito. My alcohol intake is negligible, and I don't do any drugs or take any pills (though I took enough Prednisone to kill a small horse last year when my allergies were at their worst). Usually a bagel with cream cheese in the morning, a bag of steamed vegetables later in the day, a protein shake, and a protein bar or two. Lately I've been smothering a tortilla with peanut butter, loading it up with vegetables and rolling it into some kind of veggie/PB burrito for breakfast or dinner, and other times I'll do the same but replace the veggies with nuts of various kinds (like a handful or two of trail mix for example). I don't regularly eat steak (outside the burgers/Cali burritos) or fish. So yeah, a lot of room for improvement but better than a lot of what I see other people eating. I drink zero soda (in fact I've never had a can or bottle of soda in my life, I've only had it with mixed drinks).
 

MichaelWitcoff

Hummingbird
Orthodox
flanders said:
What compelling or otherwise plausible ideas about food were introduced to you by this video that led you to believe that vegetables worth eating?

The fact that they're actual food and not processed McDonald's poison, deliberately created to be as addictive as possible while providing no actual nutrition, seemed like a good point.
 
Utter and complete nonsense is the vegan agenda.

A vegan diet is a starvation diet - you cannot get 15 nutrients out of it.

When you go on 30 days it's a bit akin to fasting and that can be beneficial. Most Euros can't even do a vegetarian diet.

Dr. Shawn Baker, Frank Tufano and others have plenty of valid content on the issue:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5apkKkeZQXRSDbqSalG8CQ

http://meatheals.com



Oh - and the average American diet is 85% plant-based already, cutting out those last 15% should make you healthy?

Most starting vegans usually cut out the unhealthy fats and junk-food as well, if they did that and added high-quality meat or beef, then they would be much better off.


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLGp2nrbr13UJP45JkqbBtQ

There are a shit-ton of ex-vegan interviews out there - some of them attempting the diet for 20 years without success, some or many falling apart after mere months.

It's a globohomo trap.

The reasons for you feeling better have nothing to do with cutting out meat, but more about the rest. Obviously there is low quality fake meat like conventional sausages, antiobiotics filled pork or irradiated chicken. Usually the best meat is beef or you buy high-quality stuff.

I found that even vegetarians in my family and acquaintances fall apart just 10 years after the vegans.

Also even vegetarians in the West have 300-400% the likelihood of mental issues despite being more intelligent on average and being of a higher-socio-economic scale - because the smarter people listen to the mainstream propaganda more.

Other channels with good content - Dr. Shawn Baker, Frank Tufano, Sverige (even if he is a bit crazy himself), Meghan Remedy. Listening to a few doctors and then the ex-vegans should tell you enough. Also as Dr. Baker put it - he is not advocating on all humans to go 100% carnivore, just to find a proper balance with plenty of animal-sourced food. Most Euros evolved with a 55%-65% reliance on animal food (as in total calories consumed) - you cannot even change that within a few generations.

Plus - there are no intergenerational vegan tribes anywhere in the world.

Another point - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation Dr. Weston Price researched this well a long time ago. If you google Weston Price you find more.
 

MichaelWitcoff

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Thanks for the info, I'll have a look. I'm not planning on going full-vegan year-round, just reordering my diet to be more natural than it currently is and replacing most of the junk with salads and healthy things.
 
I used to think that vegan diet, heck even fruitarian was good because the people starting with it looked very good for a time. Little did I know that it's something that hits you with a time-lag factor. And children cannot grow up healthy on it at all. One vegan couple I knew - millionaires who buy everything 100% eco or self-sourced - asked me why their son likely has black teeth and the teeth of their daughter does not develop well. Back then I did not know - now I do.

If you enter foods into cronometer, it appears as if you get everything from plants, but that is a delusion since for example plant-based vitamin A is only ingested at rates of 4-5% if at all. Some nutrients are simplyt not available at all and it is not only B12. My guess is that we humans are carnivorous omnivores. We can eat a lot, but we require a decent dose of animal sourced foods - way above 15% in the Standard American diet.

In the US everyone used to cook on butter, tallow or lard - it has been switched deliberately to plant-fats despite most of them being so unhealthy for humans that they should be banned instantly for human consumption.

Either way - check out the info - there is a ton of it now. I too shifted a lot into beef after finding out those things.
 

355

Pigeon
What bothers me about this whole nutrition discussion is that many people treat it like gospel.
Years ago I tried keto diet. I started with a very positive mindset. After 3 weeks I did not see any weight loss or muscle gain, so I reduced my carb intake even more. After another 3 weeks I had gained 2kg of fat while feeling unsatissfied the whole time. So I decided that this wasn't working for me. But I don't doubt for a second that it works for some other people.
I also think that when people switch from a diet that largely consists of some kind of fastfood (burger, pizza etc) to a vegan diet, and lot of the positive changes are simply caused just by the fact that you are not eating junk anymore.
So I believe there is just not a one-size-fits-all approach to diet.
 

JayR

Woodpecker
MichaelWitcoff said:
My diet's probably slightly better than average for an American, which is admittedly not saying much. Being Orthodox means I'm vegan just under half the year so that helps me offset it. My diet is pretty carb and bread heavy, and one or two times per week I'll have something like a burger or California burrito. My alcohol intake is negligible, and I don't do any drugs or take any pills (though I took enough Prednisone to kill a small horse last year when my allergies were at their worst). Usually a bagel with cream cheese in the morning, a bag of steamed vegetables later in the day, a protein shake, and a protein bar or two. Lately I've been smothering a tortilla with peanut butter, loading it up with vegetables and rolling it into some kind of veggie/PB burrito for breakfast or dinner, and other times I'll do the same but replace the veggies with nuts of various kinds (like a handful or two of trail mix for example). I don't regularly eat steak (outside the burgers/Cali burritos) or fish. So yeah, a lot of room for improvement but better than a lot of what I see other people eating. I drink zero soda (in fact I've never had a can or bottle of soda in my life, I've only had it with mixed drinks).

Sounds like you've got an above-average diet already, so it's pretty remarkable that you notice a difference in immune response and physical well-being when you go vegan. Your body is telling you something.

You're going to read a lot of vegan hate on this forum (see the "Why is the Manosphere anti-Vegan? thread), all from guys who have never actually tried going 100% plant-based for the long-term.

Listen to your body -- the good stuff you feel happening during Lent is real, and it's not a temporary effect that will eventually leave you malnourished after X number years of plant-based eating.

This well-nourished dude (Nimai Delgado) has never tasted meat in his entire life (he's 30 now):

Bwjdr64.png
 
Plant based is a sham, like some others said. Our digestive tract looks more like a carnivores than a herbivore, and we've been eating meat based diets for millions of years. Plant based is really impossible. The only reason it's even possible today is because we have technology that can extract nutrients and fly plants from all over the world. How do you get bananas in a Canadian winter?

Most vegans are either in terrible health, using a bunch of pills, powders and potions, or they're cheating. I've never seen a good looking vegan in person, unless it during the first few months.
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
The internet is so awash with propaganda for or against veggies or meat that it is currently impossible to know what is propaganda and what is science. You can find a doctor for either side.

Early 80's it was "Eat To Win," a book and diet that pro athletes like Ivan Lendl and Martina Navratilova were following. Vegetarian. I tried it and it seemed like my energy for athletic activity increased by at least a third.

Then it was the Ornish diet in the 90's with his "Eat More, Weigh Less," which was state of the art, a vegan diet that could supposedly reverse diabetes and heart disease.

Then the 2000's came around and everything completely reversed, and now it was meat and fat that were healthy and vegans were useful idiots with black teeth who were abusing their kids with this diet.

The rhetoric ramps up every year, and it is positively hysterical. I dont' know who to believe, though right now everyone is on the meat train. A lot of the criticism of the Ornish diet is manipulation heavy screechy non sequiturs, and I find it impossible to tease out what is real and what isn't. The level of pro meat hysteria smells to me of a top down campaign by vested interests, but like I say, you got doctors and researchers on both side, so how can you know.

I would say praying about it is your best bet, cause none of the jokers who know the truth are going to tell you the truth.
 
< There is no pro-meat hysteria. There is anti-meat hysteria and New York initiating no-meat friday at all schools. There is a relentless glut of vitriol thrown at meat-promoters. Most carnivore youtubers are instantly demonetized while the vegan crowd get full monetization bespite being insane and calling for the murder of all meat-eaters - like Freelee the Banana girl or Durianrider - they still get full youtube power.

Though I wouldn't say that full carnivore is the way to go for most humans - a balanced approach is likely best and variates from human to human, but I do think that more high quality animal sourced foods are more beneficial - certainly higher than at levels of 15-25% which are present in the Standard American diet.

Unfortunately as I noted before - we won't get good data out of it, becasue the elite is not interested in that despite the incredible ease with which they could have already compiled those studies over the last decades. It helps them more to push follies like the cholesterol lie, kill the useless eaters than to keep them healthy.


So don't expect anything decent from them - you have to find your own path. But there are a few things clear:

1) HIgh-nutrient density is good
2) Exercise is good
3) Animal sourced foods are healthy if you take very good ones - some fish, beef, high-quality chicken, game
4) certainly some unrefined vegetables and carbs are not that bad either
5) keep the addictive refined stuff at a minimum - as well as toxins including coffee
6) Oh - and low caloric input coupled with high nutrient density has been known to increase length of life, but still - it all depends on what you want to do since for some the payoff is worth it and living up to the 90s may be oversold as better than it appears to be - maybe some don't mind going away in their 70s
 

bucky

Ostrich
Oz. said:
Walk me through your “regular diet”. What does a normal breakfast/lunch/dinner look like?

My best friend was vegan for 5+ years and at the end of his diet lifestyle he looked like a malnourished African child, who had to go to a dentist for years to fix his teeth.

He ate a pretty “balanced” vegan diet.

Until recently I worked with a Jordan Peterson fan who claimed to be 100% carnivore. So basically the exact opposite of a vegan. Young, fit guy but toward the end of working with him he was starting to look pretty malnurished too, and it seemed to be affecting his mind.

My take is that you can have a healthy diet that's mostly plant-based or mostly animal-based, but not exclusively either.
 
< There are some ex-carnivore testimonials out there as well. Though contrary to vegans - there existed 100% carnivore tribes in history - or pretty much close to 100%. They survived on thousands of years on that diet.

But I would certainly not be religious about it. If it does not work for you, then add some salad or potatoes - it won't kill you.
 

Zenta

Woodpecker
Gold Member
I can't say much to the vegan debate other than theres no way I'd ever be able to do it myself as I am not a vegetable person. I recently tried eating keto for close to two weeks and stuck to it pretty strictly. My bowel movements were great, none of that mushy shit, just solid bowel movements that would require no wiping. I started crashing hard and started eating some carbs yesterday as a cheat meal(Fries, fried chicken, some naan bread later on) with the intent to go back today to just a high fat/ high protein/ low carb diet that cut out most processed carbs, with the goal to keep carbs under 100g but make my life a bit easier. I would say that the cheat meal has not been as great for bowel movements nor was it probably worth it. Other than the energy crash on keto, I did feel better. I would mega dose some electrolytes and it would help with the crash but it was like a wave that wouldn't last long. Also I am only 130lbs right now and my goal was 2700 calories a day just to maintain, most days id fall around 2,200-2,400(tracking religiously) and ended up slimming down a bit of my skinny fat but I'm also down to 128 lbs which is not good.

My problem wanting to try to eat "healthier, cure all" diets like carnivore, vegan, keto etc is I just have an incredibly hard time consuming enough calories of any given diet source to maintain weight, let alone even try to gain weight. I find myself between a rock and a hard place because anytime that I've ever been able to actually put on weight it was doing dirty bulk IIFYM type eating.

Always interested in any advice for someone trying to eat healthier while not having any weight to lose, seems like I have to eat like a ravished bear just to maintain. I'll see how trying to keep clean carbs under 100-150G works health wise.
 
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