Plant-Based Diets?

jcardial

Woodpecker
Lone Wolf said:
The claim of whole plant based diet to maintain muscle mass is false because the quality of plant protein is poor. Vegan athlethes heavily supplement with pea protein and soy isolates, along with a ton of other supplements. Their powder plant based diet looks like this. If you love giving money to pharmaceutical companies, be my guest.

There are always outliers, like the example of a 20 year vegan below, whose microbiome can probably extract protein better. But by that time she already suffered permanent damage to her bones.

FYI, protein supplements are not pharmaceuticals. I have had no problem getting strong on protein that you deem "of poor quality." I have done several years of no supplemented protein and have gotten very respectable gains. You must not be an athlete, because all of them supplement heavily, not just the vegan ones.

Either way you are moving the goal posts which is a theme in this thread. You take a vegan elite strongman and nitpick that he uses xyz supplements which is inane because every other non-vegan strongman is housing supplements by the tub as well. Even a fraction of a percent advantage is worthwhile at the highest levels of competition so naturally everyone it is going to be ubiquitous.

You don't need to be a genetically gifted outlier to be able to convert rice and beans into muscle mass if you are eating in a caloric surplus. That feature comes stock with the human body.
 

jcardial

Woodpecker
Simeon_Strangelight said:
< There are a few odd genetic freaks who make it 10 years. After 10 years sunken eyes are a given, mental deterioration is normal. The other option are massive supplementation - some of it animal-based.

Some get the sunken, fish-eyes only later, but almost all of the long-term ones have it. Or they look like ghouls that are walking skeletons.

I heard even one "vegan pope" say: "I eat vegan except for once or twice a week meat socially." Sure buddy - those exceptions are keeping you alive.

Most of those who say they were 20 year vegan were so with breaks.

No one is thriving on a vegan diet past a certain point and if you eat raw oyesters almost daily, then you are a pesceterian. Though I agree that it shouldn't harm vegan logic, but vegan logic is bullshit. Because free-range eggs or local goat- and cow-milk shouldn't harm anyone either - certainly less than the killing fields of big aggro of beans, wheat, corn and soy. But the destinction is clearly made among their religion.

Some of the epitome of malnutrition 6 participants here are vegan long-term gurus:


like Anna Maria Clement with severe sunken eyes and looking like a corpse. Ex-vegans who hung out with hundreds of vegans in some tropical communities (as many do after a time), they say that the people who were the shortest time vegan were generally the most healthy. Every second guy was detoxing or on some kind of cleanse or something because of some condition - usually blaming meat consumption after being on veganism for 5+ years.

Thanks - there are by now thousands and thousands of anecdotes to choose from - and the unhealthy vegan ones by far blow the "thriving ones" out of the water. When the colagen disappears and a walking sunken eyed Walking Dead actor appears, then no one can claim any thriving status.

Sunken eyes
FYI, everybody loses collagen and skin elasticity around their eyes as they age and to a very noticeable degree over ten years and certainly over twenty years. Fairly convenient for your cause to choose a metric that worsens with age regardless of diet, but cheers on using pretty much the most temporally confounded variable possible for very effective trolling. You just might become self loathing when your eyes start to sink with the rest of them.

Anorexics and those with an eating disorder are far more likely to chose veganism for weight loss
This very non-negligible subset of people is obsessive about losing weight and when they hear that quitting meat leads to weight loss they quit. Then they hear that nuts or xyz else helps with weight loss and cut those out as well. This process of restriction often continues until they are malnourished frugivores or subsist on some absurdly tiny subset of plant based options because they intend to avoid weight gain at all costs, including their health and nourishment.

The women in this study with a history of eating disorders were over four times more likely to be vegetarian vs. a normal college population. In a sample of 93 women with an eating disorder history 51.6% were "ever vegetarian" and 23.7% were current vegetarians and a massive 42% had the primary motivation for becoming vegetarian as weight related. Out of the eight normal college women who were vegetarian, albeit a small sample, none were doing it for weight.

It is pretty disingenuous that veganism gets 100% of the blame for these women with prexisting mental health issues that become pathologically restrictive and are often too body dysmorphic to realize they are severely under eating. Constantly showcasing these sick people with eating disorders wouldn't be entirely different from using the pathologically "too unrestricted" demographic of obese people to throw shade at meat eating.

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"Sunken eyes
FYI, everybody loses collagen and skin elasticity around their eyes as they age and to a very noticeable degree over ten years and certainly over twenty years."

You say Simeon is trolling but you seem to be a lot better at it as those people in that freak show of a video did not age 10, let alone 20 years my friend (in real time). You might be doing good on your cow feed diet but that doesn't mean this applies to all of us.

All I know is that this thread is becoming futile; one of the reasons why people have stopped conversing with vegans is that they know (of) a lot of sick looking vegans.
I know a few and they all look sick, and they smell and sound sick too. That's all I need to know. Oh and those weirdo "extinction rebellion" clowns are mostly vegan too. Nough said.

Edit; humans didn't need ((science))) over the last few millions years to understand that a sunken eyed, sick looking, smelly human was one to avoid.
 
The sunken eyes syndrome among vegans is not normal - there are 20yo girls who have this. Also the collagen around the shoulder-blades that vegans like Freelee lose aged 39 is not normal either. And she has been eating cooked meals for quite some while already.

The science cited is mostly bunk by vegans, they ignore contradicting evidence and they best ignore all the ex-vegan testimonials, attack those people. And the funny part is that they one day join their ex-vegan ranks and see that they had been in a cult. A cult that was lying to them on health, human physiology, ethics (that the wheat and bean killing fields murder more animals than the big carnivores).

The only thing that those ex-cultists have is that they let their big leader buy a new Rolls Royce. In this case they let the globohomos earn more (margins for plant foods are much higher), let the useless eaters become weaker and dumber, promoted a diet that the big boys would want the entire 90% at the bottom to adopt. They themselves and their close servants will get meat every day. But it will be insect burger for you.
 
< More proof of the insanity of arguments just as they bring up Diaz who chomps down pounds of shrimp as an example of a vegan athlete.

Putting up one picture of a boxer during the sometimes extreme regimen of slimming down before a fight to reach a weight goa - that is insane. That's like saying that a guy after a 40 day water fast looks a bit haggard.

[img=640x480]https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/d5edd8fbb6b733105c09f4d90114c65c?width=650[/img]

McGregor looks fine for a boxer who got his face mushed in all his life.

Enough of that insanity - it's another brainwashed vegan who does not see the forest because of all the trees. This is an utter and complete abomination and the sunken eyes syndrome is real:

[img=640x480]https://i.pinimg.com/564x/13/01/66/13016621d7d1a18463b2b580189c1a4f.jpg[/img]

[img=640x480]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CgWdkYnHDsE/maxresdefault.jpg[/img]

That woman is 26!!!!! The husband looks like an Ethopian hunger-victim.

That is her and her husband with veganism having barely started:

[img=640x480]https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_jVF0bV0UBCaQkrdOXyWTUk6ubYtTTPjY.jpg[/img]

The guide-lines are simple:

+ Raw vegans deteriorate faster
+ whole plant food vegans slower
+ cooked plant food vegans who add a ton of protein powders and supplements last longer
+ even longer are the cheagans who gorge down on animal foods or fish products somewhat regularly

Meanwhile the oxalates, phytoestrogens and lectins are wreaking havoc on your system. Oxalate poisoning can cause severe repercussions once you get free from that depending on how long you have been on it.
 

jcardial

Woodpecker
Simeon, your obsession with sickly vegans reminds me of redneck homophobes who are always talking about gay people and often secretly want to be one or at the very least enjoy being "disgusted" by them.

Even if the evidence for being more or completely plant based became overwhelming by your flat eartheresque concept of science, I imagine you would still reject it because you have already made up your mind on the matter and over committed to your position.

Your picture of Mcgregor is at ~170lbs (~25 lbs heavier). Even after he rehydrates to fight at 145 lbs his face looks concentration camp sunken. It is because his body fat is so low, not because he is malnourished or badly dehydrated. He was steamrolling world class fighters at 145 with a very sunken face even after rehydrating for the fight.

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< Countering destructive vegan propaganda is nothing negative.

So I am now a Redneck and you are using it as some kind of Huffpo gay promotion crap? You are a SJW who now uses the same tactics of accusing people who don't like the gay pushing as being gay secretly? Really?

The argumentation is getting worse and worse. What does a pro-boxer fighting-state has to do with it? That is not sunken eyes syndrome of a soccer mom. Enough - with this bullshit.

My mind loves to explore different subjects and veganism is one as I noted severe consequences of people in my vicinity. That kind of intellectual curiosity may be alien to SJW whose minds are closed, but men actually like that more than women. As other scientists have noted - I am willing to change my mind if I see other facts.

And I guess you have forgotten that you are not on Huffpo if you pull out some homophobia and redneck arguments here. You are against gay promotion, so you must be secretly gay or low-IQ eh?

Fuck-Off-Jack-Nicholson.gif


And this goes beyond the veganism stuff - plenty of smart people fall for it, because it's an intricate issue with a massive push and overall weak science on all sides.
 

Lone Wolf

Sparrow
Orthodox
jcardial said:
Lone Wolf said:
The claim of whole plant based diet to maintain muscle mass is false because the quality of plant protein is poor. Vegan athlethes heavily supplement with pea protein and soy isolates, along with a ton of other supplements. Their powder plant based diet looks like this. If you love giving money to pharmaceutical companies, be my guest.

There are always outliers, like the example of a 20 year vegan below, whose microbiome can probably extract protein better. But by that time she already suffered permanent damage to her bones.

FYI, protein supplements are not pharmaceuticals. I have had no problem getting strong on protein that you deem "of poor quality." I have done several years of no supplemented protein and have gotten very respectable gains. You must not be an athlete, because all of them supplement heavily, not just the vegan ones.

Either way you are moving the goal posts which is a theme in this thread. You take a vegan elite strongman and nitpick that he uses xyz supplements which is inane because every other non-vegan strongman is housing supplements by the tub as well. Even a fraction of a percent advantage is worthwhile at the highest levels of competition so naturally everyone it is going to be ubiquitous.

You don't need to be a genetically gifted outlier to be able to convert rice and beans into muscle mass if you are eating in a caloric surplus. That feature comes stock with the human body.

The difference between vegan athletes and normal athletes is that they're using supplements to meet RDAs rather than megadosing. This is the very definition of aneating disorder. The amount of fiber that's consumed with a whole plant based diet to meet RDA would prevent you from absorbing and digesting it properly.

Don't believe in outliers? This video below, a 20 year long vegan (now ex-vegan) that was an athlete, looks jacked throughout the entire veganism. He admits that he was genetically gifted compared to other vegans. Only after 15 years, he started to show trouble healing from injuries, soft vegan muscles and decreased performance.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
Not that I'm on team vegan, but decreasing bodily performance after 15 years is what most people just call "getting old".

Some of these skeletal people are definitely barking up the wrong apple tree but not every race and ethnicity has evolved to thrive with the same diets. Snow folk by definition have evolved to live better on heavier meat and dairy quotas than equatorials.
 

jcardial

Woodpecker
Simeon_Strangelight said:
< Countering destructive vegan propaganda is nothing negative.

So I am now a Redneck and you are using it as some kind of Huffpo gay promotion crap? You are a SJW who now uses the same tactics of accusing people who don't like the gay pushing as being gay secretly? Really?

The argumentation is getting worse and worse. What does a pro-boxer fighting-state has to do with it? That is not sunken eyes syndrome of a soccer mom. Enough - with this bullshit.

My mind loves to explore different subjects and veganism is one as I noted severe consequences of people in my vicinity. That kind of intellectual curiosity may be alien to SJW whose minds are closed, but men actually like that more than women. As other scientists have noted - I am willing to change my mind if I see other facts.

And I guess you have forgotten that you are not on Huffpo if you pull out some homophobia and redneck arguments here. You are against gay promotion, so you must be secretly gay or low-IQ eh?

Fuck-Off-Jack-Nicholson.gif


And this goes beyond the veganism stuff - plenty of smart people fall for it, because it's an intricate issue with a massive push and overall weak science on all sides.

You just keep strawmanning every point I make by changing or inventing a position and then attacking it. If Mcgregor were vegan you would readily attribute his sunken face and eyes to veganism and chalk it up to further evidence that it is unsustainable. You can cherrypick sickly looking people from any diet and put them in a compilation video to also prove nothing.

I didn't say you were a redneck or make any value judgments about gays. I just find it interesting that you seem to have a similar level of contempt and vehement hatred towards vegans that rednecks have towards gays and yet give them suspiciously disproportionate amounts of attention and mental energy (e.g. constantly posting vegan compilations).

You parrot the phrase "globohomo" to describe vegans, so in a way, you going plant based would be literally "homo" by your standards. It is pretty clear you have painted yourself into a corner ideologically even if you claim you have not.
 
Leonard D Neubache said:
Not that I'm on team vegan, but decreasing bodily performance after 15 years is what most people just call "getting old".

Some of these skeletal people are definitely barking up the wrong apple tree but not every race and ethnicity has evolved to thrive with the same diets. Snow folk by definition have evolved to live better on heavier meat and dairy quotas than equatorials.

Some Africans have a better ability to digest tubers and other vegetables, but others don't.

And as noted in the thread - the Masai and other 99%+ meat and dairy eaters point to the fact that we seem to all do better being meat-heavy.

Africa_500x373.jpg


Weston Price went to Africa and saw the same results as with Asians or Europeans - more plants and less meat usually meant worse teeth and health.

It seems that our human basic physiology in terms of food digestion is very similar of all races. Lots of African American vegans had the very same issues than the white liberal girls.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
I dunno. I think you've gone past reasonable and headed out into space on this issue.

Where are the current black vegans with 80% of their teeth falling out of their mouths? It's a bit hard to draw a reasonable conclusion from 12 photos.

You realise that in Africa they take the concept of shitty diets to a whole other level, right? IIRC one of their favorite meals is to take the top off of a loaf of white bread, pour a can of Coke into it and eat it like a soup. Later they'll eat ramen noodles without cooking them. And they'll do that for a week straight without brushing their teeth.

Okay, that's "vegan" but it's in no way representative of the outcome a responsible western vegan would arrive at.

It pays to stick within the realms of reason. I highly doubt the guys in that middle photo were eating what current Western vegans eat.
 

scorpion

Hummingbird
Gold Member
jcardial, your posts in this thread are becoming increasingly embarrassing. First you post a picture of a fighter cutting extreme weight (which is literally one of the most unhealthy things you can do to your body - to the point that it can cause organ failure and death) and note the similarity in appearance to vegans. Somehow you fail to connect the dots here. You then make bizarre and nonsensical allegations that subtly insinuate Simeon is secretly a vegan or possibly even a homosexual. I don't think you understand how poorly you're coming across here. You have convinced no one with your arguments and have only discredited your position.

The facts remain: veganism is an unnatural diet practiced by zero human cultures throughout history. To the extent that a modern vegan diet is even possible at all it is only enabled by our extremely sophisticated technological development and global supply chains. And all these weird vegan protein powders and other manufactured vegan foods do not exist in nature. Show me a vegan athlete who eats only plants in their natural state. Show me the guy who eats ten pounds of beans and rice a day to get sufficient protein. He doesn't exist. It's not possible. It's not a real diet, it's a fad and a psy-op designed to further weaken Western people both physically and mentally and to promote depopulation. By embracing and promoting veganism you are essentially advocating destruction, both personal and societal.
 
Leonard D Neubache said:
I dunno. I think you've gone past reasonable and headed out into space on this issue.

Where are the current black vegans with 80% of their teeth falling out of their mouths? It's a bit hard to draw a reasonable conclusion from 12 photos.

You realise that in Africa they take the concept of shitty diets to a whole other level, right? IIRC one of their favorite meals is to take the top off of a loaf of white bread, pour a can of Coke into it and eat it like a soup. Later they'll eat ramen noodles without cooking them. And they'll do that for a week straight without brushing their teeth.

Okay, that's "vegan" but it's in no way representative of the outcome a responsible western vegan would arrive at.

It pays to stick within the realms of reason. I highly doubt the guys in that middle photo were eating what current Western vegans eat.

Those pictures are around 100 years old. Back then no current modern foods existed - it was mostly plant-based whole-food and Europeans had the same issues:

comparing%2Bbrothers.jpg


Weston-A-Price-900x600.jpg


Weston Price actually wanted to prove the validity of the vegetarian diet as he was a vegetarian himself initially. What he found was the opposite.
 

Seeker79

Kingfisher
Meat was an infrequent but highly calorie dense protein source in ancient times. We weren't meant to eat it everyday three times a day. Clogged arteries, high TMA's, and increase in colon cancer are all associated with too much consumption of meat.

How about a balanced approach where you eat only whole foods and eat meat sparingly? Does that sound sane and reasonable? Or would you rather slam steak, chicken, and ham 3x/day 365 days per year and be surprised that you're about to have a stroke or heart attack at 45?

As with everything in life, balance and moderation is the key.
 
I love how people compare the meat-eating habits of Dickensian Europe or the middle ages with healthy eating. People grew to 5 ft and were sickly, weak and disease-ridden. Meanwhile the Romans noted that the Goth tribes were sometimes 6ft tall on average for the men and super-strong. So 2000 yrs ago super-strong on meat, 1300-700 years ago - super-weak, sickly on lots of plant foods since the nobility restricted hunting and meat. Guess it's a return to that medieval state that is the most wonderful.

Historians who looked into WWI archives saw young 18yo men growing even up to 4 inches within one year, because their growth was stunted and they tasted meat every day in the rations then. Some armies had a mass-gulasz-soup which had lots of beef and pork in it. But yeah - let's go back to those days and restrict it.

Again - it's not the meat, it's everything else - processed carbs in that quantity and the totally new foods of plant-seed oils are the most glaring addition.

This myth that meat is unhealthy has to be challanged every time someone makes that claim, because it's nonsense. Plus - humanoid history is millions of years old. Even looking at 3000 years means nothing. Americans eat less meat than the HK Chinese and are far sicker, so that's that - your stupid theory is wrong just like that - poof.
 
Simeon_Strangelight said:
This myth that meat is unhealthy has to be challanged every time someone makes that claim, because it's nonsense. Plus - humanoid history is millions of years old. Even looking at 3000 years means nothing. Americans eat less meat than the HK Chinese and are far sicker, so that's that - your stupid theory is wrong just like that - poof.

No doubt the junk food and oils contribute to Americans' bad health, but I'm not sure HK Chinese are proof meat is healthy.

Hong Kong currently has the longest life expectancy, and they consume an enormous amount of meat per capita.

The problem with equating those two points is that meat consumption has risen rapidly over the past few decades, with beef and milk consumption exploding in the past 2 decades.

https://medium.com/@ecyY/meat-consumption-growth-in-hong-kong-is-alarming-872e46bf40ca

Meanwhile life expectancy lags in time, it's an indicator of what diets people grew up on ~7-8 decades ago.

People often don't change their diets from when they were young. The oldest citizens in HK are most likely still eating like when they were young, i.e. far less meat than the per capita consumption.

It's worth pointing out that the average age of first CHD event for men is 66 years in America - meaning on average you can eat like complete shit for almost 7 decades before you feel it.

To truly see the effect of HK's meat eating, we'll have to see how today's 20 and 30y olds fare in about 4-5 decades.

Even so, their cancer rates at least seem to matching up with their increased meat consumption:

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...eing-hong-kongs-grim-cancer-numbers-will-rise

The Hong Kong Cancer Registry says new cases recorded in 2017 showed the highest year-on-year increase in about 10 years, continuing a rising trend over the past three decades.

Could be due to other factors though.

Hong Kong will be interesting to observe. If they keep upping their meat consumption and if meat is healthy, then they have nothing to worry about.

I'm heavily in favor of people trying out carnivore diets. Researchers have been saying for decades meat is unhealthy. Now we can finally put it to the test with people voluntarily eating an all-meat diet and see what their disease rates are.

Shawn Baker had a fasting glucose level of 126 mg/dL (or was it 127?) - putting him at the edge of diabetes.

Karsten Andersson went on an all-meat diet and has glycosuria, i.e. sugar in his urine, which is an indicator of diabetes:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ea70/62e4ffbea6b80e4f0513486a50dc905c23f9.pdf

Peterson's wife, went carnivore and got cancer.

Now unfortunately, these are just anecdotes and their problems could be unrelated to their meat eating. So it'll be great to see a larger sample size of carnivores and how their health stacks up statistically over the span of decades.

I don't know who came up with the idea of a carnivore diet, but that person is a genius. What better way to prove meat is healthy than to eat an all-meat diet and see what happens.

Meat supposedly causes:
* heart disease
* diabetes
* cancer

So people eating a carnivore diet should see significant reduction in their rates of contracting these diseases compared to whole food plant based dieters.

Yes, the more people who go on a carnivore diet, the more clear it'll become just how healthy meat is.
 
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