Plant-Based Diets?

Simeon_Strangelight said:
< If you take those into account, then the person who came up is a genius too, because veganism already has wrecked so many lives that it's very clear that it is crap.

Vegan or whole food plant-based?

There is a difference.

You will definitely have horrible health consuming a vegan diet consisting of oils, Oreo cooking, chips, coke, that abysmal Beyond Burger/Impossible Meat trash.

Whole-food plant based though is a tougher argument since guys like Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn are still alive at the age of 85, never having faced diabetes, cancer or heart disease.

But again, if meat is healthy, there is nothing to worry about. I'm sure Shawn Baker, Karsten Andersson and Peterson's wife were anomalies.

This is why I would love to see more people on a Carnivore diets. The more people eating 100% meat, the easier it'll be to see the health benefits of meat.

Oh man, oh man, those doctors and researchers claiming fat causes diabetes are going to look ridiculous when most Carnivores don't end up with diabetes.
 
scorpion said:
The facts remain: veganism is an unnatural diet practiced by zero human cultures throughout history.

100% veganism? Yeah, it's practiced by zero human cultures throughout history (as far as we know).

But it comes pretty damn close.

Okinawans are some of the longest living people in the world. They had detailed dietary information on them before 1950 - 1950 is about when their diets started changing.

Going back to what I said about Hong Kong, people typically don't change how they eat over their lifespan. So looking at what they ate in 1949 is a good indicator of what the longest living Okinawans were eating throughout their life.

http://www.hsph.jp/JT2009/documents...ditional Okinawan Diet, and Healthy Aging.pdf

You can see a breakdown of their food consumption on page 10 (page 443 on right upper corner).

Barely 4% of their diet came from animal products.

so 100% vegan? No, but 96% is pretty damn close.
 

Australia Sucks

Kingfisher
Simeon I think its fairly easy to conclude that veganism is largely non-sense. However it gets far murkier when you try to extend that to its logical conclusion and conclude that a primarily meat based diet is the ideal diet. I think there is insufficient evidence to draw such a conclusion at this point in time.
 
Genghis Khan said:
Simeon_Strangelight said:
< If you take those into account, then the person who came up is a genius too, because veganism already has wrecked so many lives that it's very clear that it is crap.

Vegan or whole food plant-based?

There is a difference.

You will definitely have horrible health consuming a vegan diet consisting of oils, Oreo cooking, chips, coke, that abysmal Beyond Burger/Impossible Meat trash.

Whole-food plant based though is a tougher argument since guys like Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn are still alive at the age of 85, never having faced diabetes, cancer or heart disease.

But again, if meat is healthy, there is nothing to worry about. I'm sure Shawn Baker, Karsten Andersson and Peterson's wife were anomalies.

This is why I would love to see more people on a Carnivore diets. The more people eating 100% meat, the easier it'll be to see the health benefits of meat.

Oh man, oh man, those doctors and researchers claiming fat causes diabetes are going to look ridiculous when most Carnivores don't end up with diabetes.

Americans are already plant-based -= 80-85% calories are coming from plants coming down from the 1950s where the percentage was higher.

Believe what you want. I see you being already indoctrinated bringing up Peterson's wife for cancer when she became carnivore one year before the diet change - or Shawn Baker as a symbol of disease when the guy competes in an amateur athletics sport with 20yo men on world level. Yeah - he is indeed a symbol of what goes wrong because you think that one number is pre-diabetes high.

I see more nonsense like that - and all those stupid studies - best are the studies done post WWII in dire circumstances with massive differences in lifestyle that wasn't endemic - like Okinawa post WWII when the pig population was wiped out.

No - it's not unfair to claim that we might do best on a meat-based diet, when the Eskimos and many native African tribes are close to 100% meat- and dairy-based. They don't fall apart.

And neither did the North American planes Indians fall apart when being on an almost 100% buffalo diet. In fact we have historical stats from the 19th century and the Indians were taller, stronger and more healthy than the soldiers - one of the reasons why they had trouble with them for so long as the technological advantage before the machine gun wasn't that overwhelming. They hunted out the buffallo in order to impact their food supply and beat them that way. AS soon as those Indians were on the US-supplied food in reservations, then they instantly got fat and sick.


Your claim of predominantly plant-based being the most healthy is as little or less backed by science than if I say that we should be eating 60-80% animal-product based. Maybe we should test out this now, because the sheisters have been pushing lots of plant-oils and plant-crap for 60 years with the result of Americans now eating more carbs and plant-fats than the bloody much poorer mainland Chinese now!
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
Genghis Khan said:
...
This is why I would love to see more people on a Carnivore diets. The more people eating 100% meat, the easier it'll be to see the health benefits of meat.

Oh man, oh man, those doctors and researchers claiming fat causes diabetes are going to look ridiculous when most Carnivores don't end up with diabetes.

I can't help but wonder if they can comprehend the difference between eating fat causing diabetes and being fat causing diabetes.

To a medical statistician I suppose you could simply tally up the total amount of fat consumed per individual and check it against the chance of diabetes occurring then "accurately" infer that eating more fat = a higher chance of diabetes when in reality people consuming large amounts of fat but not actually being fat are being counterbalanced on the diabetes scale by fatasses that also eat large amounts of fat.

This is literally how stupid the field of dietary medicine has become.
 
The idea that we have to wait 60 years in order to have the HK Chinese fall apart is missing other populations with an even greater animal-foods percentage:

Iceland - having life expectancy beyond 80 and eating possibly still to this day the highest amount of animal-foods. It's less meat for them, but it's more than overpowered by fish and dairy. In fact up until the 1970s they ate even more meat, fish and dairy - it was way over 60% of their entire calories.

160211-iceland-cuisine-tracy-mdl-213_964aba54fef5fdcbaccd99f3036d3138.fit-560w.jpg


I think that Iceland holds the record as the most centennerian men in the world.


Shawn Baker goes here through a list of poeple who all lived 114 to 122 years. All of them were pretty strong meat or fish eaters - either daily gefilte fish of a Jewish guy, or daily bacon, eggs and grits with a black US woman, or some daily steak and 3 raw eggs with one.

And it is indeed possible that the best equilibrium lies in some kind of ratio of animal vs plant foods of 50-80% likely on the side of animal foods.

Another European population with super-heavy consumption of animal foods are the Swiss - for centuries chomping down on meat and tremendous amounts of dairy and milk. Almost all Swiss have access to this day to raw milk - the farmers are everywhere even if you live in Zurich. The Swiss were strong and tall even centuries ago while most other genetically similar tribes were much weaker and shorter. Most of their land isn't suitable for big agriculture anyway - it's far easier to raise animals or have milk - in some areas it's the only local food produced.
 
The best part about the public vegan Youtube community is that you see them attacking ex-vegans on 7.11.2019 while praising the glories of the vegan diet as the best and most healthy thing ever.

Then 2 months later they humbly admit to eating animal foods once again:


It happens again and again.

Oh - and as population studies go - the people of Iceland are some of the healthiest in the world and they have been highly animal-based since forever. Importing plants was always second. They eat a bit less meat than the HK Chinese, but make it more than up by eating seafood and milk. That is still their ancestral diet with a higher animal-based caloric count than any European country.

And the best part is that this tiny population has produced a stupendous amount of world-class athletes - way beyond any statistical probability.

Icelandic men have the highest life expectancy in Europe and infant mortality lowest

https://icelandmag.is/article/icela...expectancy-europe-and-infant-mortality-lowest
 
Hmmm...

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/woman-heartbroken-after-eating-vegan-3710748

A woman has been left feeling "disappointed' and 'heartbroken" after taking a bite out of a vegan KFC burger which turned out to be chicken.

Nic Kent, 27, who has been vegan for five years, was visiting Clifton restaurant with her sister on Sunday, January 5 when she ordered the new meat-free burger.

Her sister, who asked to remain anonymous, chose a chicken fillet burger with cheese.

However, when Ms Kent arrived home she opened the vegan burger box, took a bite and swallowed, only to find what she had just eaten was chicken and cheese.

"I felt sick," she told Nottinghamshire Live. "I was heartbroken. It has been a long time since I first became a vegan. I went to brush my teeth after."

Ms Kent explained that the box was labelled a 'zero chicken' burger which states on the side: "Finger lickin' vegan. Until you add non-vegan stuff, obviously."

She said she had taken a bite without thinking, putting her trust in KFC to put the correct burger in the box.

"You know when you are so hungry and you do not chew?," she added. "I waited a long time for it so I was hungry and I just wanted to enjoy it. Luckily it was not a big bite.

"I've been vegan for five years so I known damn well that was not any plant-based stuff. I could feel all the skin going down my throat.

"My sister picked up the burger and checked for me. I should have checked but really I should not have had to.

"I'm not a militant vegan but I was so grateful that KFC was trying to do something, a place that me and my family could go.

"I just feel disappointed. KFC do not care about vegans or about animal welfare, it's just about money."

Her sister's order from the restaurant in Clifton Lane was correct.

Ms Kent, a personal assistant and decorator, said she is also lactose intolerant, adding: "I have not had cheese in a long time so it did make me very sick.

"Lactose intolerance needs to be taken seriously. It's not a good start to Veganuary.

"I phoned them back up and we spoke to the manager and [my sister] even went back and they offered us a free meal.

"But I do not trust them anymore. Just be cautious and just check."

The KFC original recipe Quorn burger launched on January 2 this year.

A KFC spokesperson added: “We’re really sorry for what happened with Nic’s order – we got it wrong on this occasion.

"We offered a full refund straight away and a replacement Vegan Burger, but we realise it’s super important we don’t slip up – particularly when it comes to allergens.

"We've followed up with our teams to remind them of the importance of getting the right order to the right customer – and we’ll keep doing everything we can to prevent this happening again."
 

Mycelium

Robin
Gold Member
Alkaline-vegan here for about 2+ years, fixed quite a few ailments this way.

Too bad the reputation "Vegans" get is weesh and meat is considered Alpha. Nothing alpha about giving up your life to unproven hospitals and doctors when you get sick.

– Eat organic whole foods as much as you can
– Buy Fruits/Veggies that are not hybrids (cultivated by man)
– Drink herbal teas that are highly alkaline
– Half a gallon of Spring Water daily
– Switch up your kitchenware to stainless steel
– Throw away your plastic containers, use glass
– Grapeseed oil to cook in, olive oil for salads

Do this and you're solid.
 
Alkaline-vegan here for about 2+ years, fixed quite a few ailments this way.

Too bad the reputation "Vegans" get is weesh and meat is considered Alpha. Nothing alpha about giving up your life to unproven hospitals and doctors when you get sick.

– Eat organic whole foods as much as you can
– Buy Fruits/Veggies that are not hybrids (cultivated by man)
– Drink herbal teas that are highly alkaline
– Half a gallon of Spring Water daily
– Switch up your kitchenware to stainless steel
– Throw away your plastic containers, use glass
– Grapeseed oil to cook in, olive oil for salads

Do this and you're solid.

I've been drinking distilled purely for almost two years and it has changed my life. Alkaline water is not meant for the GI tract. Distilled is the lesser of all the evils, and every water out there on the shelf is one of them.
 

Mycelium

Robin
Gold Member
I've been drinking distilled purely for almost two years and it has changed my life. Alkaline water is not meant for the GI tract. Distilled is the lesser of all the evils, and every water out there on the shelf is one of them.

Advertised "Alkaline" water is usually a farce.

Spring Water is what I use daily, there's zero nutrients in distilled, likely more suitable in tea.
 
Advertised "Alkaline" water is usually a farce.

Spring Water is what I use daily, there's zero nutrients in distilled, likely more suitable in tea.

There is also zero fluoride, estrogen, and lead. I add my minerals to it using trace minerals and other sources. It's the only way unless you live way out yonder in the sticks and get all your water naturally.
 

Mycelium

Robin
Gold Member
There is also zero fluoride, estrogen, and lead. I add my minerals to it using trace minerals and other sources. It's the only way unless you live way out yonder in the sticks and get all your water naturally.

Distilled is fine, spring is fine too this is not a make or break deal when it comes to switching to a plant-based diet.

Soy, plastic, and cookware is a much bigger concern. For those who want to drink spring water, make sure pH levels are 7 and greater. Here are some relatively trusted brands who've passed the alkaline test:

spring-water.jpg
 
A new offspring of veganism is the fruitarian diet

Lately I have been watching videos from Raw Bliss, an American fruitarian travelling through various Asian nations

He has archived his fruitarian journey, which is interesting. It should also serve as a cautionary tale and a warning.

The level of stubbornness and ideological fervour is akin to the zealots. As his body deteriorates he actually doubles down on his habits. Imagine someone babbling about 'deep tissue regenaration', 'cleansing the intestines', 'getting in touch with Mother Nature', 'detoxifying his body and undoing the harm' whilst being nothing but skin and bones, having stopped producing sperm, having quickly deteriorating teeth and no doubt a horrible stool and sleep patterns. He also complains that he is tired a lot.


A couple of months ago his body suddenly changed. Commentors suspected that he was taking B12 supplements (among others). Now he walks around with a constantly puffy face, man boobs and a feminine fat layer around his hips


A very sad case of yet another lost soul. He genuinely seems like a nice guy, just completely led astray and misinformed. All these weird diet crazes are cancer
 

Zenta

Woodpecker
Gold Member
A couple of months ago his body suddenly changed. Commentors suspected that he was taking B12 supplements (among others). Now he walks around with a constantly puffy face, man boobs and a feminine fat layer around his hips
Are b12 supplements bad?

And that guy looks horrible, he must have a mental illness. Insane.
 
Are b12 supplements bad?

And that guy looks horrible, he must have a mental illness. Insane.

No, but it might explain the weight gain

Yeah, it's a product of our broken societies. In the video below he explains how he came to fruitarianism


Many young people nowadays run from one addiction into the other, from one extreme ideology into the other. It's as if there is not common sense, no middle ground anymore
 

bucky

Ostrich
A new offspring of veganism is the fruitarian diet

Lately I have been watching videos from Raw Bliss, an American fruitarian travelling through various Asian nations

He has archived his fruitarian journey, which is interesting. It should also serve as a cautionary tale and a warning.

The level of stubbornness and ideological fervour is akin to the zealots. As his body deteriorates he actually doubles down on his habits. Imagine someone babbling about 'deep tissue regenaration', 'cleansing the intestines', 'getting in touch with Mother Nature', 'detoxifying his body and undoing the harm' whilst being nothing but skin and bones, having stopped producing sperm, having quickly deteriorating teeth and no doubt a horrible stool and sleep patterns. He also complains that he is tired a lot.


A couple of months ago his body suddenly changed. Commentors suspected that he was taking B12 supplements (among others). Now he walks around with a constantly puffy face, man boobs and a feminine fat layer around his hips


A very sad case of yet another lost soul. He genuinely seems like a nice guy, just completely led astray and misinformed. All these weird diet crazes are cancer

A Russian ex of mine devolved into Fruitarianism for a while spontaneously on her own as one of several manifestations of her lifelong struggle with eating disorders. I was watching her eat several apples at once around dinner time one evening, and it occurred to me that I hadn't seen her eat anything but fruit for days. I asked her about it and she confirmed it but insisted it was healthy and would help her lose weight (she was 5'2 and about 105 pounds at the time). Within a few weeks she was hospitalized for malnutrition. The whole thing was horrifying, watching her body and health fall apart like that and seeing the dark presence that food had become in her life.
 

Zenta

Woodpecker
Gold Member
No, but it might explain the weight gain

Yeah, it's a product of our broken societies. In the video below he explains how he came to fruitarianism


Many young people nowadays run from one addiction into the other, from one extreme ideology into the other. It's as if there is not common sense, no middle ground anymore
Gotcha, just checking because I take b12 supplement. Thanks.

Yeah I'll watch this video, this guy is fascinatingly sad, I was looking at his instagram and youtube and noticed he has an e-book out on how he lived in Asia for 2 years on only $300 a month. $3600 a year. I suppose props to him on that but not really seeing how he ended up.

I think a piece of fruit a day is fine, but I don't push it past that lol.
 
Top