Plant-Based Diets?

Againstallodds

Robin
Orthodox
Man, frank is a double faced money grabbing confused man boy. His gay escorting past is all you need to know about him. Can't trust a word coming out of his mouth. Dude that mouth thing wasn't to fix an overbite it's pure cosmetic plastic surgery and he has gotten more stuff done since. Not to mention probable steroids usage recently. He has body dysmorphia. Besides wasn't he crying about his diet giving him high iron or something? Didn't he quit the diet and wasn't he eating a shit load of honey at some point. I say this because I used to watch some carnivore just out of curiosity but he's too cringe and a compulsive liar. (reason why I am done with youtube)

No offense to you personally bro I know his content is addictive but no sane person should take him seriously. If the carnivore experiment is working for you then great personally i think it's needlessly restrictive with very little rationale behind it.
 

DeWoken

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
^ Yup, I definitely agree that he has issues.

I didn't want to bring up the homosexuality stuff because I don't want to slander the guy. He has a business to run. But I was aware of that Chatterbate stuff. I don't know that it proves he was gay more than that it suggests he did "gay for pay" at one point in his life, for what it's worth. He made the (somewhat dubious) claim that he pretended to be gay to get his application for a reality TV show pushed to the front of the queue. And he does periodically, minimally brag about his fornication adventures during his livestreams (over at frank2fano channel).

Frank has come to the realization, after being serious about it in his teens and early twenties, that bodybuilding is unnecessary (and a little gay). He started bodybuilding again less than a year ago to prove that he knew what he was doing, to promote his channel and maybe sell a routine. He's a skinny dude not long ago.

Frank's a triplet, with a brother who has for most of his life won all the accolades, and a sister who is mentally handicapped and needs taking care of.

I am praying for Frank to find Christ. He used to wear a cross on a chain all the time but said it was just for luck.

I've heard it said that in the Bible the word "bread" actually means "meat". As we know, things can be interpreted many ways.
 

Mike0060

Sparrow
I've tried a whole food plant based diet for 3 months and it has more benefits than not.

But I've personally just stuck with a more traditional diet from my fiance and I's cultures.

A balanced diet feels right. I'm not perfect though, we make our own ice cream from local milk.
 
All unnatural bodily modifications are abominations and will have to be explained before the Almighty. Don't do it. Surgery to fix an injury I think can be made a case for, but aesthetics no. That requires purity and hard work for those not born with it.
 

Australia Sucks

Kingfisher
I am neither vegetarian nor vegan but I am just curios to hear from those with better knowledge on the matter, there is supposedly the Brokpa/Drokpa tribe in the Himalayas that until very recently was supposedly vegan (or at least with many members of the tribe previously being vegan).


Is this an expception to the rule that there are/were no Vegan tribes or is it propaganda/bullshit and these people have been eating animla products all along?
 
As far as I am aware, veganism is a scam on many levels. Based on what I've learned over the past few years, a vegan diet is not only nutritionally deficient (demonstrated by the fact that ~80% of people quit veganism within 5 years, often citing health problems as the reason), it's not good for the environment, and believe it or not, it's not even good for animals (given the basic assumptions vegans make about animals which are dubious in the first place).
 

Againstallodds

Robin
Orthodox
Vegans used to cite the Okinawans as an example of mostly plant based dieter. Turns out they ate plenty of pigs and cooked with pig fat. They tend to be shorter smaller people. Lack of animal protein lowers mtor maybe longevity is enhanced but at the price of muscle. Even Indians are far from plant based with heavy use of animal fats like ghee and also milk. I think it's just propaganda. Balanced diet get the best of both worlds ignore vegan talking points.
 

JayR

Woodpecker
Age 54
No meat since 9/7/17
5'11" 175 pounds, 12.5% fat
No homo

IMG_0513 - Copy.JPG
At 5 years post-meat I look forward to posting a pic of my mouth with all my teeth intact, just in case Simeon is lurking.
 
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DeWoken

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
@JayR looking good for 50s, that's for sure. :like:

What has your fitness trajectory been like? How have your workouts been?

Not to attack anyone in this thread, but I have a theory that if you go on a vegan diet your mind will become more feminine and for some people's lifestyles this is helpful. That is to say it is in the short-term beneficial, but in the long-term against God's plan for you. If you have to deal with a lot of women at work then being on a similar wavelength with them could be helping you keep your job. Some people have families or wives who would like them to be more submissive to them and less receptive to controversial ideas. More submission, and less arguing leads to less stress (short-term) which leads to, "the diet is working!".

Change my mind.
 

JayR

Woodpecker
@JayR looking good for 50s, that's for sure. :like:

What has your fitness trajectory been like? How have your workouts been?

Not to attack anyone in this thread, but I have a theory that if you go on a vegan diet your mind will become more feminine and for some people's lifestyles this is helpful. That is to say it is in the short-term beneficial, but in the long-term against God's plan for you. If you have to deal with a lot of women at work then being on a similar wavelength with them could be helping you keep your job. Some people have families or wives who would like them to be more submissive to them and less receptive to controversial ideas. More submission, and less arguing leads to less stress (short-term) which leads to, "the diet is working!".

Change my mind.
@DWoken I've told my story before, including my "fitness trajectory,"on the RVF in another thread ("Why is the Manosphere Anti-Vegan" https://www.rooshvforum.com/threads/why-is-the-manosphere-anti-vegan.13429/), so I'll try to keep this brief -- I got a heart disease diagnosis in July of 2017 (Agatston score of 298). Determined to live as long as possible, I began researching how to reverse heart disease, and found the book "How to Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease" by Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn. He advises a whole food, plant-based, no oil, no nuts diet. After a huge dinner of my favorite meal from my favorite seafood shack back home, I went WFPB/No Oil on September 7, 2017. I dropped 30 pounds in two months, but didn't suffer in the gym at all. All my body-weight exercises (pull-ups, dips, etc.) improved dramatically.

It's lonely being the only plant-based diet advocate on RVF, and I've read a lot of anti-vegan stuff here, but "your mind will become more feminine" is a new one for me. I can state "that's nonsense," but I doubt that alone would change your mind on the matter. However, I did take my first-ever mirror selfie last night and posted it on the internet, so maybe you're onto something.
 

Jay

Sparrow
Just have a look at the men in Asian cultures eating just plant based diet for generations. Are they really superior in any significant way? Is that the road you want for your future generations?
The whole thing smells like a feminist shit test.
 

JayR

Woodpecker
Lol Switzerland is famous for eating tons of meat and dairy and they’re at number four. People that go to Japan always complain about how hard it is to eat plant based there. You sure you want to use that list? :rolleyes:
The list merely answers the question "Are [Asians] really superior in any significant way?" I think longest life expectancy is significant.

Consumption of meat and dairy is directly correlated with heart disease and cancer in humans. You can accept this, as I have, or reject it.

OP wrote:
...when I'm vegan for the entire course of that season, I inevitably feel great and don't get so much as a sniffle - but then when I go back to a regular diet, I start getting colds and feeling full and bloated again.

There's a reason for this.
 
Consumption of meat and dairy is directly correlated with heart disease and cancer in humans. You can accept this, as I have, or reject it.
I have to say, I really take issue with statements like these.

"Directly correlated"... in other words, no proof of a causal relationship to be found, nor will there ever be. It's a bit disingenuous to not add this little disclaimer when stating things like this. I mean, ok, there's a correlation, but it's unknown whether the meat and dairy is the cause of the observed health problems. Don't you think it's important to, you know, maybe mention that?

It's interesting how many vegans will point to correlations (often conflating them with proof of a causal relationship) when a correlation proves nothing and can be easily manufactured by carefully crafting survey questions and tweaking variables in a multiple regression analysis. It is trivially easy to manufacture any correlation you want when it comes to nutritional research, so it might be wise to take such "evidence" with a grain of salt.

Maybe the reason why "meat and dairy is directly correlated to heart disease and cancer" is because some "researchers" were paid to manufacture that conclusion because the people paying benefit in some way from this? In billion dollar industries, paying a few researchers a couple hundred thousand dollars to make your competitors product look bad can yield a return that is orders of magnitude larger than the initial investment. How can you be so sure this isn't the reason why these correlations exist? Given how easy it is to manufacture whatever correlation you want and the enormous financial incentive to do this, you would have to be scrutinizing nutritional research extremely carefully to be even remotely certain that this "correlation" has any value whatsoever. I would go as far as to say that if you haven't done so, referencing this research is dishonest. Why share a conclusion that you're not able to verify is true, where there is a very real possibility that it is actually false?

Since you are opening this can of worms, I am curious. Have you actually read any of the research that "directly correlates" meat to cancer? How carefully did you scrutinize the research? Do you have the background necessary to properly scrutinize nutritional research?

What kind of meat is linked to heart disease and cancer? I don't think anyone doubts that McDonalds tier meat is probably not that good (then again, neither is the "plant-based" bread the buns are made from). "Meat" is a very broad category. There are many kinds of "meat", just like there are many kinds of plants. You can't just paint all meat with the same brush, and doing so is inherently dishonest. One could say that plants are "directly correlated" to diabetes, cancer, heart disease, etc... I mean, after all, sugar, alcohol and cigarettes all come from plants... Something tells me you would take issue with that statement, and rightly so. What I'm getting at here, is that I have yet to see any decent research being conducted specifically on high quality meat. Every study I see doesn't distinguish between the quality of meat, which is yet another pitfall of this research. One could easily manufacture a correlation by finding people who are consuming McDonalds tier meat, just as one could easily manufacture a correlation between plants and health issues by "studying" people who are eating a ton of sugar and processed carbs.

Honestly, it's a bit exhausting watching vegans make claims like this. Most research is driven by an agenda. Are we just going to sit here and pretend that's not the case? Not only that, but false positives are incredibly common due to publication bias, so in many cases, even when there is no agenda, even when the research is conducted properly, it's still not clear if the conclusions can be trusted until further research is conducted. Most "research" vegans reference is nothing more than an analysis of survey responses, responses which were never verified for truth, where little to no effort was made to account for confounding factors, where there are often clear conflicts of interest, etc...etc... In other words, most of this research is complete garbage. And most vegans who reference this research haven't properly scrutinized it before propping it up as gospel, nor do they possess the background to properly scrutinize it even if they actually wanted to. I am not saying you are such a person, hence the questions.

You said you were vegan since 2017? I could be wrong here, but I imagine if you are 100% vegan, it's only a matter of time before you start running into gut problems, skin problems, dental problems, etc... There's a reason so many people abandon veganism and if it was half as good as vegans claim, we simply wouldn't see this happening. Why would anyone stop being vegan if it was so healthy and made them feel so great? It just doesn't add up.

Anyway, I hope I'm not being too much of a jerk here. If you can make veganism work, then hats off to you. I'd be much more willing to buy into the claims vegans made if there was a large population of 100% vegans, who had been vegan from birth, whose parents were vegan, etc... and who were all relatively healthy. In reality, what we observe when it comes to vegans is primarily, a bunch of 20 year olds going vegan because it's the hip thing to do, and eventually ditching it when they start feeling like crap. Until that changes, I'll remain extremely skeptical of this "diet".
 
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