Plant-Based Diets?

Papist

Woodpecker
Nutrition is like politics, such a triggering topic. I'm under the impression, as a healthcare worker, that nutrition effects everyone differently, just like medications do. What works for me (a whole foods, plant based diet), make not work for the next Joe down the road... people have reported getting very ill on every type of diet. For me, my strong familial history of heart disease and death for young men lead me to want to find something that worked. At 29, my Dr. wanted to put me on a blood pressure med and a cholesterol med. I wanted to try something else because meds are for life. I tried the DASH diet, no change. I tried the vitamin B option, with no effect other than body wide flushing. I found Dr. Esselstyn by happenstance and have it a try. 50 lbs lighter, normaltensive now, (I went from 150/90 average to 110/70 average), norocholesteremic (330 average to 110 average total). My Dr. said whatever I'm doing, to keep doing it... For me, this has worked for the last 10 years.
That's really amazing, and you're not the first person to relate such a drastic change. The producer of Fat, Sick & Nearly Dead, though promoting a juice diet, basically said that if you're diet's 90% veg, it's enough to promote health.
 

Againstallodds

Robin
Orthodox
Nutrition is like politics, such a triggering topic. I'm under the impression, as a healthcare worker, that nutrition effects everyone differently, just like medications do. What works for me (a whole foods, plant based diet), make not work for the next Joe down the road... people have reported getting very ill on every type of diet. For me, my strong familial history of heart disease and death for young men lead me to want to find something that worked. At 29, my Dr. wanted to put me on a blood pressure med and a cholesterol med. I wanted to try something else because meds are for life. I tried the DASH diet, no change. I tried the vitamin B option, with no effect other than body wide flushing. I found Dr. Esselstyn by happenstance and have it a try. 50 lbs lighter, normaltensive now, (I went from 150/90 average to 110/70 average), norocholesteremic (330 average to 110 average total). My Dr. said whatever I'm doing, to keep doing it... For me, this has worked for the last 10 years.

One man's food is another ones poison
In aryuveda for example they segregate based on body type and depending on your constitution and current ailments different foods might be appropriate while others would be harmful. It really is all about balance in my opinion.
 

jollycynic

Sparrow
I think regional adaptations and ancestry play a larger role in optimal diet than most people acknowledge (all humans are exactly the same, goys).

Hell your typical Asian is comprised of 40% rice by volume and skinny. If I look too closely at rice I'll bloat.

OTOH I went keto and dropped 40 pounds (which have stayed off) but then my distant ancestors ate mammoths.

I also question sometimes the metrics by which we determine health. Look at India. Lots of people eating plant based diets, who on paper are healthy in terms of BMI. But look at them and all you can say is that they're simultaneously skinny, but fat. India seems also to produce very few Olympians, especially as compared to their size.
 

fiasco360

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I don't care what others eat to be honest but vegans are typically the most obnoxious when it comes to other people's food choices. I tend to do best on a carnivore type diet. I'm not 100% on it because it's difficult to kick old habits but my health feels much better. Although as of late I've slipped quite a bit.

I use to think red meat was an issue because I wouldn't feel good eating it - then I came to realize it was all the surrounding foods I was eating with it.

Juicing legitimately put me in the hospital and gave me esophageal problems. Found a book called the fast tract diet that helped me understand fermentable foods/SIBO a bit more.

Slowly switching to a heavier meat diet the following happened:

1) I got better sleep
2) Better gains in the gym
3) EASY fat loss
4) Better sex drive
5) No digestion issues.
6) Clearer and healthier skin (no acne issues and ingrown hairs wouldn't really inflame)
7) Don't sunburn badly
8) Teeth feel healthier and stronger (and whiter)
9) Less body pain/inflammation
10) Less ADHD type issues and better mental focus

As someone else said - whatever YOU feel best on - continue it.
 

Grow Bag

Pelican
I don't care what others eat to be honest but vegans are typically the most obnoxious when it comes to other people's food choices. I tend to do best on a carnivore type diet. I'm not 100% on it because it's difficult to kick old habits but my health feels much better. Although as of late I've slipped quite a bit.

I use to think red meat was an issue because I wouldn't feel good eating it - then I came to realize it was all the surrounding foods I was eating with it.

Juicing legitimately put me in the hospital and gave me esophageal problems. Found a book called the fast tract diet that helped me understand fermentable foods/SIBO a bit more.

Slowly switching to a heavier meat diet the following happened:

1) I got better sleep
2) Better gains in the gym
3) EASY fat loss
4) Better sex drive
5) No digestion issues.
6) Clearer and healthier skin (no acne issues and ingrown hairs wouldn't really inflame)
7) Don't sunburn badly
8) Teeth feel healthier and stronger (and whiter)
9) Less body pain/inflammation
10) Less ADHD type issues and better mental focus

As someone else said - whatever YOU feel best on - continue it.
Pretty much my path. I had a horrible year of GERD that meant I had to try to sleep sitting up a lot of the time. I was put on PPIs, but didn't relish being dependent on drugs for years, so I started researching and found the first part of the cure in Norman Robillard's Fast Tract Diet. That helped a lot, but I didn't completely heal my gut.

It was when I went full ketogenic diet that everything cleared up. I was about a year on keto, but I lost too much weight as I just couldn't afford to buy enough meat to keep up the calories. So I went back on carbs. I can eat potatoes and bread without much gut complaint, but I have to be careful not to overdo it. Frankly I'd rather be back eating mainly meat, as I felt better on that diet. My hunch is it isn't vegetables per se that's the problem, it's the chemicals used in agriculture that disrupt the balance of gut microbiome.
 
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Zagor

Woodpecker
I think regional adaptations and ancestry play a larger role in optimal diet than most people acknowledge (all humans are exactly the same, goys).

Yeah and studies have shown that different people can respond very differently to the same diet. It makes sense that you would be better suited for the diet that you ancestors ate going back generations. Where I'm from people historcally relied on cattle herding rather than agriculture, and I also fare well on mostly meat based diet and have no issues eating dairy products.
 

Johnnyvee

Ostrich
Pretty much my path. I had a horrible year of GERD that meant I had to try to sleep sitting up a lot of the time. I was put on PRIs but didn't relish being dependent on drugs for years, so I started researching and found the first part of the cure in Norman Robillard's Fast Tract Diet. That helped a lot, but I didn't completely heal my gut.

It was when I went full ketogenic diet that everything cleared up. I was about a year on keto, but I lost too much weight as I just couldn't afford to buy enough meat to keep up the calories. So I went back on carbs. I can eat potatoes and bread without much gut complaint, but I have to be careful not too overdo it. Frankly I'd rather be back eating mainly meat, as I felt better on that diet. My hunch is it isn't vegetables per se that's the problem, it's the chemicals used in agriculture that disrupt the balance of gut microbiome.

Some vegetables have molecules that can cause GERD and other related issues. Mint for example has this effect via promoting gastric muscle relaxation. So the muscle that normally will keep your stomach content where it`s supposed to be will relax, and hence you can experience heartburn/nausea etc. I remember getting a horrible bout of gastritis when I was drinking a lot of mint tea many years ago. I did some research on it at the time, and found that there are similar substances in quite a few plant foods that will cause this as well. (In fact I experienced the same thing prior with ginger tea.) It`s best to stick to the plant foods that we are best adapted to I think. Things like low GI fruits and also berries are the safest option. (But I think that broccoli and cauliflower and so on are OK options from time to time.) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4223119/

As far as the expensive keto diet goes, I know that problem all to well. I found a solution in eating a lot of belly pork from the supermarket deli section. It`s popular year round in Norway, and most supermarkets that are good will have it. (It`s basically cooked a bit like ribs in the US, but with the whole belly pork cut.) That will net you about 500 calories per 100 grams, and it`s quite cheap compared to say grass-fed rib-eye steaks. You`re looking at <80 percent of calories from fat with that also, hence the energy density, so it will be ideal for inducing ketosis. Maybe not as nutritionally dense as grass fed red meats, but still very good in many ways. Great source of collagen also I think.
 

Nacho

Sparrow
I would love to go plant based but always hit a wall about a week in and I start having cravings for animal based products. I really need to try though because my blood pressure and cholesterol numbers are not good.

A fear I have with going plant based is aging faster and nutritional deficiencies. Although I've only made it a week in I can tell my skin doesn't look as good. I've watched those "epitome of vegan malnourishment" videos on YouTube by Sv3rige and those vegans look absolutely terribe.
 

fiasco360

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Pretty much my path. I had a horrible year of GERD that meant I had to try to sleep sitting up a lot of the time. I was put on PPIs, but didn't relish being dependent on drugs for years, so I started researching and found the first part of the cure in Norman Robillard's Fast Tract Diet. That helped a lot, but I didn't completely heal my gut.

It was when I went full ketogenic diet that everything cleared up. I was about a year on keto, but I lost too much weight as I just couldn't afford to buy enough meat to keep up the calories. So I went back on carbs. I can eat potatoes and bread without much gut complaint, but I have to be careful not to overdo it. Frankly I'd rather be back eating mainly meat, as I felt better on that diet. My hunch is it isn't vegetables per se that's the problem, it's the chemicals used in agriculture that disrupt the balance of gut microbiome.
Yep Norman's book really helped me out!

Rice and Potatoes are okay for me but when I start to get into bread too much - I feel exhausted. I love pizza but when I have it, I break out and any ingrown hair I have from shaving gets inflamed.

I took a DNA test a long time ago and based on that I have 2 markers from both parents (1 middle eastern, 1 European) that indicate celiac sensitivity. This only developed as I got a bit older.

Some vegetables have molecules that can cause GERD and other related issues. Mint for example has this effect via promoting gastric muscle relaxation. So the muscle that normally will keep your stomach content where it`s supposed to be will relax, and hence you can experience heartburn/nausea etc. I remember getting a horrible bout of gastritis when I was drinking a lot of mint tea many years ago. I did some research on it at the time, and found that there are similar substances in quite a few plant foods that will cause this as well. (In fact I experienced the same thing prior with ginger tea.) It`s best to stick to the plant foods that we are best adapted to I think. Things like low GI fruits and also berries are the safest option. (But I think that broccoli and cauliflower and so on are OK options from time to time.) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4223119/

As far as the expensive keto diet goes, I know that problem all to well. I found a solution in eating a lot of belly pork from the supermarket deli section. It`s popular year round in Norway, and most supermarkets that are good will have it. (It`s basically cooked a bit like ribs in the US, but with the whole belly pork cut.) That will net you about 500 calories per 100 grams, and it`s quite cheap compared to say grass-fed rib-eye steaks. You`re looking at <80 percent of calories from fat with that also, hence the energy density, so it will be ideal for inducing ketosis. Maybe not as nutritionally dense as grass fed red meats, but still very good in many ways. Great source of collagen also I think.

Yep- the premise of Dr. Robillard's book is that fermentation that happens in the gut relaxes your esophageal sphincter and causes a lot of bloating - thus leading to acid reflux problems. Over time -> leaky gut, immune issues, digestion problems etc.

Something to think about is fermenting your own vegetables. I love onions for example but I tend to need to sauté them and ferment them to handle them better. I keep pickled sweet red onions in my refrigerator and they can go on 90% of the dishes I make.

In terms of Grass fed items etc - I don't think TOO much on that because I believe (and other carnivore advocates like Dr Shawn Baker) that a "regular" meat is still okay to eat. I like pork but not too much - I tend to stick with ground beef for cheaper meals. A favorite dish of mine is 80/20 ground beef patties with muenster cheese slices, sautéed/pickled onions, then the sauce consists of a small amount of "natural" mayo/ketchup/mustard + pickles. Low carb, heavy protein and fats, tastes delicious, easy to make and isn't hard on the wallet.

I would love to go plant based but always hit a wall about a week in and I start having cravings for animal based products. I really need to try though because my blood pressure and cholesterol numbers are not good.

A fear I have with going plant based is aging faster and nutritional deficiencies. Although I've only made it a week in I can tell my skin doesn't look as good. I've watched those "epitome of vegan malnourishment" videos on YouTube by Sv3rige and those vegans look absolutely terribe.

Cholesterol numbers aren't everything. Check out the video
Blood pressure though - ask yourself a few things.
1) Are you active?
2) Are you hydrated? Proper electrolytes?
3) What are you consuming? How much caffeine?

Get those three things in check and revisit this. "Normal" levels in your blood work aren't the only metric for your health.
 

JayR

Woodpecker
Nutrition is like politics, such a triggering topic. I'm under the impression, as a healthcare worker, that nutrition effects everyone differently, just like medications do. What works for me (a whole foods, plant based diet), make not work for the next Joe down the road... people have reported getting very ill on every type of diet. For me, my strong familial history of heart disease and death for young men lead me to want to find something that worked. At 29, my Dr. wanted to put me on a blood pressure med and a cholesterol med. I wanted to try something else because meds are for life. I tried the DASH diet, no change. I tried the vitamin B option, with no effect other than body wide flushing. I found Dr. Esselstyn by happenstance and have it a try. 50 lbs lighter, normaltensive now, (I went from 150/90 average to 110/70 average), norocholesteremic (330 average to 110 average total). My Dr. said whatever I'm doing, to keep doing it... For me, this has worked for the last 10 years.
This is great to read. Congrats on your improved health after going full Esselstyn.

I've been pretty much alone on RVF for several years defending the Esselstyn heart-healthy WFPB diet/lifestyle. It's great to have company, especially somebody who can report good results after 10 years (your teeth haven't fallen out?? You must be cheating!) .

The improvement in your metrics pretty much mirrors mine since I made the change in September of 2017 (though I dropped "only" 30 pounds). My doctor said the same thing yours did after seeing my blood work: "Whatever you're doing, keep doing it" (after first wanting to put me on a bunch of drugs).
 

JayR

Woodpecker
I would love to go plant based but always hit a wall about a week in and I start having cravings for animal based products. I really need to try though because my blood pressure and cholesterol numbers are not good.

A fear I have with going plant based is aging faster and nutritional deficiencies. Although I've only made it a week in I can tell my skin doesn't look as good. I've watched those "epitome of vegan malnourishment" videos on YouTube by Sv3rige and those vegans look absolutely terribe.
Don't give up, Nacho. If you have hypertension and high cholesterol, going plant-based is the single best thing you can do to keep your heart and cardiovascular system healthy and to avoid stroke or heart attacks when you're older.

The cravings are normal. It takes 4 to 6 weeks for the palate and brain to reset after giving up meat and oil. I had dreams of thin-crust cheese pizza and hamburgers constantly during the transition phase, but I don't miss them anymore.

Plant-based diets don't age you faster, and are not nutritionally-deficient. The only supplement you need to take if you go plant-based is B12, and the only reason for this is that B12 is in dirt -- we don't dig our own vegetables out of the ground anymore and the water we drink is chlorinated to kill everything, so we don't get B12 naturally anymore from non-animal sources.

The YouTube videos you're seeing of the mal-nourished ghouls are most likely anti-vegan propaganda.
 

Nacho

Sparrow
Don't give up, Nacho. If you have hypertension and high cholesterol, going plant-based is the single best thing you can do to keep your heart and cardiovascular system healthy and to avoid stroke or heart attacks when you're older.

The cravings are normal. It takes 4 to 6 weeks for the palate and brain to reset after giving up meat and oil. I had dreams of thin-crust cheese pizza and hamburgers constantly during the transition phase, but I don't miss them anymore.

Plant-based diets don't age you faster, and are not nutritionally-deficient. The only supplement you need to take if you go plant-based is B12, and the only reason for this is that B12 is in dirt -- we don't dig our own vegetables out of the ground anymore and the water we drink is chlorinated to kill everything, so we don't get B12 naturally anymore from non-animal sources.

The YouTube videos you're seeing of the mal-nourished ghouls are most likely anti-vegan propaganda.

Thanks man I really want to give it a shot. I feel the battle is more mental for me. I'm having issues with seperating from things I have eaten my whole life but I know are not best for my health. It's hard to have self control when it comes to food. I feel at some point I just have to put my foot down and do a long trial period.
 

DeWoken

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
Why is ground meat inherently bad?

Meat that is minced is often just treated badly. There is the sort of old-wives tale aspect of "you never know what's in there". I have trouble buying grass-fed beef that doesn't have hard bits in it, where I'm at. I think part of it is this condescending attitude of, "oh, you're buying this because you're poor, well you should put up with my cost-cutting procedures then, until you man up and get a real job". Sometimes the bits are only gristle other times it's full-on bone chips :boring: When I spoke to one local farmer on the phone and indicated that I was only interested in minced she asked if it was for my dog. (Yeah, I live in a land of many Karens).

Last time I was at the supermarket I bought some regular Alberta beef steaks because they were on sale and while not 100% grass-fed I think it's not terrible. And at least I won't have to deal with chips.

But minced meat is a very useful product for cooking, I don't agree with the condescension. And people of modest means deserve respect as well.
 
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