Prenup

Thoughts about Prenup?

  • Will not get one if the girl doesn't want one

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    72
PrimeTime32 said:
DO NOT. I REPEAT, DO NOT GET MARRIED! A man has absolutely nothing to gain the the western world by getting married. NOTHING!

I wonder how many in the "Don't get married" camp actually practice celibacy. I suspect that most of them go sleeping around and fornicating.

For the Christian, things aren't so easy. The Bible says fornicators don't get into heaven. So you either have to get married or be celibate. It's not so easy to just decide "I won't get married."

If you can avoid marriage and practice celibacy, that's great.

But I would rather get taken to the cleaners in a divorce than burn in hell for all of eternity because I decided to fornicate instead of get married.

St. Paul said in one of the epistles that he recommends not getting married, but it's better to marry than to burn.
 
BigFellow said:
PrimeTime32 said:
DO NOT. I REPEAT, DO NOT GET MARRIED! A man has absolutely nothing to gain the the western world by getting married. NOTHING!

I wonder how many in the "Don't get married" camp actually practice celibacy. I suspect that most of them go sleeping around and fornicating.

For the Christian, things aren't so easy. The Bible says fornicators don't get into heaven. So you either have to get married or be celibate. It's not so easy to just decide "I won't get married."

If you can avoid marriage and practice celibacy, that's great.

But I would rather get taken to the cleaners in a divorce than burn in hell for all of eternity because I decided to fornicate instead of get married.

St. Paul said in one of the epistles that he recommends not getting married, but it's better to marry than to burn.

you will not burn in hell if you love a woman without marriage. just make sure you have a commited relatioship. a proper family, dont f around with thousands of girls. marriage is a beautiful thing, only western feminist laws have turned it into a tool of distruction
 

Deepdiver

Crow
Gold Member
After serving six years on High Speed Nuclear Fast Attack Hunter Killer submarines I am quite familiar with the concept of Hell.

Hell is not so bad when compared to a bad contentious divorce.

A true red pilled man may be aware of fear however he Steels himself and marches into the pits of hell to vanquish his enemies... St. Michael
 
RobertBryce said:
BigFellow said:
PrimeTime32 said:
DO NOT. I REPEAT, DO NOT GET MARRIED! A man has absolutely nothing to gain the the western world by getting married. NOTHING!

I wonder how many in the "Don't get married" camp actually practice celibacy. I suspect that most of them go sleeping around and fornicating.

For the Christian, things aren't so easy. The Bible says fornicators don't get into heaven. So you either have to get married or be celibate. It's not so easy to just decide "I won't get married."

If you can avoid marriage and practice celibacy, that's great.

But I would rather get taken to the cleaners in a divorce than burn in hell for all of eternity because I decided to fornicate instead of get married.

St. Paul said in one of the epistles that he recommends not getting married, but it's better to marry than to burn.

you will not burn in hell if you love a woman without marriage. just make sure you have a commited relatioship. a proper family, dont f around with thousands of girls. marriage is a beautiful thing, only western feminist laws have turned it into a tool of distruction

I do not advocate getting a marriage license. I have written about that on other threads. The only situation where I think you would need to get a marriage license is if you are importing a foreign bride to the U.S. But if you are going to have sex with a woman, you need to have a marriage; if you want to use a code word or call it something else to disguise it from relationships that involve the State, I suppose you can do that. But there needs to be a solemn commitment to make it a lifelong matter; you're supposed to announce before God and other people of your intention to stay together for life. The Bible talks about marriage, fornication, and adultery, so there is such a thing, and we need to follow the Bible's commandments.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
So you meet a good, traditional girl who you want to marry and start a family with. You say to her:

"I love you. You are the woman I want to devote myself to until death and I trust you completely. BUT, here's this legal document I need you to sign so that just in case you decide to betray me you won't be able to take half my stuff."

See how well that goes over with her and her father.
 
Two things & a suggestion: 1) only the church can marry (a state “license to marry” is optional, IMHO), and

2) If trends hold (ex: Canada), they will impose marital property laws upon the cohabitating. So, the RedPill strategy of avoiding legal marriage is really a short-term “fix” for those co-habitating. DivorceInc will push the necessary changes in the law soon enough.

Suggestion: A good prenup agreement should decide as many issues as possible, should provide reasonable attorney fees, and should kick all other issues to mediation and then arbitration. Avoid the toxic family court as much as possible. Lawyers like to game that system and make things more expensive than they need to be.

Ultimately, talking to a divorce lawyer in your area is the best first step.
 
Rob Banks said:
So you meet a good, traditional girl who you want to marry and start a family with. You say to her:

"I love you. You are the woman I want to devote myself to until death and I trust you completely. BUT, here's this legal document I need you to sign so that just in case you decide to betray me you won't be able to take half my stuff."

See how well that goes over with her and her father.

Certainly, it’s not a fun or easy thing to do. And, not every person need consider it. Dread game—in limited doses—works to check your woman.

But, she should fear you leaving. The lesser evil is preventing a divorce in the first place, which is what a prenup can do. The more certain the agreement, the less likely she can manipulate the Family Court.
 
Magnus Stout said:
Two things & a suggestion: 1) only the church can marry (a state “license to marry” is optional, IMHO), and

2) If trends hold (ex: Canada), they will impose marital property laws upon the cohabitating. So, the RedPill strategy of avoiding legal marriage is really a short-term “fix” for those co-habitating. DivorceInc will push the necessary changes in the law soon enough.

Suggestion: A good prenup agreement should decide as many issues as possible, should provide reasonable attorney fees, and should kick all other issues to mediation and then arbitration. Avoid the toxic family court as much as possible. Lawyers like to game that system and make things more expensive than they need to be.

Ultimately, talking to a divorce lawyer in your area is the best first step.

As I have written in other threads, there are about 15 or 20 states in the U.S. that do not impose marital property laws upon cohabiting (known in the U.S. as palimony). The purpose of this was to discourage cohabiting because that was immoral and the state was supposed to promote marriage. It turns out that the law has a somewhat different effect; those laws actually protect red pill men, hurt the feminists, and encourage men not to get a marriage license. It encourages them to "cohabit" in the eyes of the State, but in actuality to do a private marriage without state involvement.
 

bacon

Ostrich
Gold Member
Rob Banks said:
So you meet a good, traditional girl who you want to marry and start a family with. You say to her:

"I love you. You are the woman I want to devote myself to until death and I trust you completely. BUT, here's this legal document I need you to sign so that just in case you decide to betray me you won't be able to take half my stuff."

See how well that goes over with her and her father.

Logically, why would a prenup matter to a traditional girl? It would only affect her if the marriage ends in divorce. If the marriage theoretically ends when you die then signing the prenup would have never mattered and she would inherit your estate. If she says its not romantic explain neither is marriage when viewed through the eyes of the law. It is a business contract.

If you are poor going into the marriage and have zero aspirations of having wealth in the future take the gamble and don't get a prenup. You literally won't have much to lose anyways.
 
I am against prenuptial agreements. When you ask your woman to sign a prenuptial agreement, you're saying that you want to be ready in case there's a divorce. It doesn't seem that's the right way to start off a marriage. The better practice is to not get a marriage license, and live in a state that doesn't recognize common law marriage or palimony. You can also set up a premarital trust, without telling your future wife.

That way you protect yourself, but you say nothing to your wife about the future prospect of divorce.

If she asks you to sign a marriage license, that's sort of like asking you to sign a prenuptial agreement that favors her interests, and that's not good.
 

Dilated

Robin
If you do it you better disclose every asset, including pensions. Failure to do so is just the opening they need to render your prenup null and void. Ask me how I know.
 

Deepdiver

Crow
Gold Member
After serving six years on High Speed Nuclear Fast Attack Hunter Killer submarines I am quite familiar with the concept of Hell.

Hell is not so bad when compared to a bad contentious divorce.

A true red pilled man may be aware of fear however he Steels himself and marches into the pits of hell to vanquish his enenies.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
Magnus Stout said:
Rob Banks said:
So you meet a good, traditional girl who you want to marry and start a family with. You say to her:

"I love you. You are the woman I want to devote myself to until death and I trust you completely. BUT, here's this legal document I need you to sign so that just in case you decide to betray me you won't be able to take half my stuff."

See how well that goes over with her and her father.

Certainly, it’s not a fun or easy thing to do. And, not every person need consider it. Dread game—in limited doses—works to check your woman.

But, she should fear you leaving. The lesser evil is preventing a divorce in the first place, which is what a prenup can do. The more certain the agreement, the less likely she can manipulate the Family Court.

If the marriage is solid, neither of you should fear the other leaving unless there is very good reason (severe violence, drug addiction, etc.).

bacon said:
Logically, why would a prenup matter to a traditional girl? It would only affect her if the marriage ends in divorce. If the marriage theoretically ends when you die then signing the prenup would have never mattered and she would inherit your estate. If she says its not romantic explain neither is marriage when viewed through the eyes of the law. It is a business contract.
...

Why would signing a prenup matter to you, though? It only affects you if the marriage ends in divorce. If you are so sure the marriage will end in death (and not divorce), then why would you even want a prenup in the first place?

It is not a matter of it being "romantic" or not.

Demanding a prenup is essentially you saying to her "I don't trust you." If you don't trust her, why are you marrying her?
 

bacon

Ostrich
Gold Member
Rob Banks said:
Magnus Stout said:
Rob Banks said:
So you meet a good, traditional girl who you want to marry and start a family with. You say to her:

"I love you. You are the woman I want to devote myself to until death and I trust you completely. BUT, here's this legal document I need you to sign so that just in case you decide to betray me you won't be able to take half my stuff."

See how well that goes over with her and her father.

Certainly, it’s not a fun or easy thing to do. And, not every person need consider it. Dread game—in limited doses—works to check your woman.

But, she should fear you leaving. The lesser evil is preventing a divorce in the first place, which is what a prenup can do. The more certain the agreement, the less likely she can manipulate the Family Court.

If the marriage is solid, neither of you should fear the other leaving unless there is very good reason (severe violence, drug addiction, etc.).

bacon said:
Logically, why would a prenup matter to a traditional girl? It would only affect her if the marriage ends in divorce. If the marriage theoretically ends when you die then signing the prenup would have never mattered and she would inherit your estate. If she says its not romantic explain neither is marriage when viewed through the eyes of the law. It is a business contract.
...

Why would signing a prenup matter to you, though? It only affects you if the marriage ends in divorce. If you are so sure the marriage will end in death (and not divorce), then why would you even want a prenup in the first place?

It is not a matter of it being "romantic" or not.

Demanding a prenup is essentially you saying to her "I don't trust you." If you don't trust her, why are you marrying her?

Ok, I guess I have a fundamentally different view of human psychology than you. Getting a prenup removes the incentive to divorce for cash and prizes. It effectively tries to mitigate the issue of greed. Honestly, I would look at it from an inverse way as you would. If she wouldn't sign the prenup then I wouldn't trust her. I have several family members and friends who have gotten prenups so maybe there might be a socioeconomic hurdle that some people face in how they view it negatively.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
bacon said:
...Getting a prenup removes the incentive to divorce for cash and prizes...

The fact that the incentive to divorce for cash and prizes even exists and is strong enough to be taken seriously means that there is something deeply wrong with the marriage/relationship that a prenup isn't going to fix.


bacon said:
...If she wouldn't sign the prenup then I wouldn't trust her...

I get what you're saying, and it makes sense.

However, I guess I really do have a totally different view from you when it comes to human psychology (at least when it comes to marriage and male-female relationships).

I believe that when you truly trust a woman, you feel it in your heart and there is no doubt in your mind that she is, in fact, trustworthy. The notion that she might divorce you for cash and prizes would be as ridiculous as the notion that she might kill you in your sleep to collect on your life insurance policy.

Yes, she might leave you temporarily (for example if you start beating her) or even permanently (if it is evident that you won't change your ways), but she will not be doing it for monetary/materialistic reasons.

This DOES NOT mean I believe men should be naive and blindly trust the first woman they fall in "love" (i.e. lust) with. The opposite is true. I think men, especially in the modern West, should be very careful about which women they choose to trust.
 

Dilated

Robin
Very few women respond to a prenup request with anything other than- ‘OMG you don’t trust me!’ A truly boring and unoriginal response.

They fail to realize that a well-crafted prenup is designed TO PROTECT THEM AS WELL. A grossly unfair prenup should never be signed by her and that’s where her lawyer comes into play.

Women will say ‘you can’t treat marriage like a business!’ but they are the first ones to treat it like a business when divorce proceedings happen.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
↑ So you think that, prior to marriage, the man and woman should both hire lawyers to negotiate a prenup (as if it were some major business deal or property sale)?

If you feel you need the law to protect you from her (and she needs the law to protect her from you), then maybe marrying this girl is a bad idea.
 

Dilated

Robin
Rob Banks said:
↑ So you think that, prior to marriage, the man and woman should both hire lawyers to negotiate a prenup (as if it were some major business deal or property sale)?

If you feel you need the law to protect you from her (and she needs the law to protect her from you), then maybe marrying this girl is a bad idea.

If you do a prenup the only way to do it is to have separate, unaffiliated counsel. That being said, I’m not sure I’d do a prenup again. I think there are ways to get 90% of what a prenup gets you without all the strife- trusts, choosing a woman that has/makes her own money, separate bank accounts, sheltering $$ with parents, etc.

I do agree with screening carefully the women you are with but we all know they can and will change on a dime.
 

Salinger

Woodpecker
Here is a funny or sad epilogue depending on your point of view. To avoid a fight, I let my wife keep the equity in our old house. That let her pay off a condo, which I was good with because I didn't have to feel responsible if she hit the skids (her big salary led to overwork, which led to illness, which is a very typical story for women). We were on good terms. Then she got two cats. I'm allergic. So I got screwed again: I helped pay for a condo which I now cannot visit nor sleep over in case of an emergency (fire, snowstorm, surgery) which is a deal we had.

I read this and I immediately picture your ex sitting in a restaurant with her friends eating salads and scheming of how to get out of the deal she originally agreed to.

"Ah-hah, I'll get two cats."
 

armenia4ever

Kingfisher
I was poor, still somewhat am, and got married a year or so after finding this forum. (Been married over 4 years now.)

It helps not having any real assets to worry about if a divorce occured which would be shocking to me and my wife, but something you should all really think about...

If you have to think about the possibility of a future with a girl where you might need a prenup - just in case - you shouldn't marry her. You should have no doubt in your mind of a future where a prenup wont be needed because a divorce wont be possible.

Now that's relative to legally binding marriage through the state.

Some have made a pretty decent arguement that you are ceding authority over your marriage to the state and all the issues that can result from that. Instead they advocate getting married through the Church who is the true authority over your marriage.

If this is the case, I'd advise considering this path.
 
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