Preparedness During Civil Strife

bmw633

Robin
Hi,

I know many of you happen to live in cities where you may encounter roadblocks full of "protestors"(paid agitators), as well as other dangerous encounters.

I would be interested in knowing what you are doing to be prepared if you inadvertedly find yourself confronted by a mob.
 

EndlessGravity

Woodpecker
Aside from carrying everywhere? I'm ensuring maximum physical and mental fitness. More ideas...

  • Practice drawing your weapon.
  • Watch videos of how mobs act and escalate. You're probably not going to be disarming anyone but the video from Portland of the street-disarming of the police AR-15 is instructive.
  • Don't escalate.
  • Know your exits and your routes ahead of time.
  • Always have an alternative plan.
  • Know the location of your closest ally.
  • Read up on tactics and strategies (how to tell if someone is still following you, etc)
  • Be selective about where you go in public.
  • Make sure your family is in the habit of listening to your commands.
 

Sam Malone

Ostrich
Gold Member
Make sure your family is in the habit of listening to your commands.
EG posted an absolute solid response, but this one bears repeating.

Anyone with kids will know (or tell you) that kid's, especially teenagers, love to question things and/or show defiance.

It took some time to drill into my teenage son and daughter that when we're at any sort of function and I'm telling them or someone else something that (to the teenagers) seems "off", there's a reason.

Now, I can give them a low key glance or a long blink that signals to them that 1) I'm not just a "dad being a dick", but 2) I will go into more detail later, and my reason will make more sense then.. but right now is not the time to get into it.

With the current political climate, they (my teenager) have been paying attention to the riots and protests.

While I usually roll to the grocery store solo, the few times we all have to go into the store, the kids and I have a verbal cue that tells them it's time to drop whatever, park the shopping cart, and leave asap.
My father passed away a few years ago, so if I tell the kids anything phrased in such a way that eludes to him ("Hey, we should get this for your grandfather."), they know to change mental gears and be on high alert.

We've also got "go-bags" (Rubbermaid totes) at the house, and they have their instructions and specific duties in the event we need to bug out. The car can be loaded in less than two minutes, and those go-bags are also layered in such a way that if we can't drive, the truly important stuff is in backpacks and readily accessible once the lid is off.

I'm not necessarily suggesting putting the fear of God or constantly being dark about everything every day, but it's imperative that the kids (and your woman if you have one) understand that if and when the proverbial shit hits the fan, and you find yourselves in a situation as the OP eludes to, that at that moment YOU are the expert in this and your instructions need to be followed with no questions.
 

bmw633

Robin
My EDC gun has been a Ruger LCP, but if I were to go into the city, I may carry my Glock 26 9mm with 12+1 capacity, with a 33rd magazine in case I need to reload.

What about pepper spray or bear spray? Any thoughts?

Also, what about business that do not allows guns? If it is concealed, do you just go in anyway?
 
Definitely agree with teaching the family. Had one incident in the early years of my marriage where someone cut me off and took a parking space. My wife tried to get out and say something because I was driving. I promptly got out and screamed at her "to get the f#%@* back in the car NOW!! "My tone scared the driver so he backed up and left and my wife has never acted without my command in public again. I still remind her of the incident occasionally so she doesn't forget especially if I smell something fishy about the situation were in. 10 years happily married ;).
 
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I'm not in a carry state but everyone in my family carries mace and more importantly know to NOT use it unless its an absolute necessity. Last thing you want is to be in a situation where you can escape unharmed a nd ruin it by enraging the mob or catching an assault case. Flee first, and use the proper amount of force. If your surrounded and there not trying to break in and harm you then you have no choice but to simply wait. Don't beep your horn, or roll down your window, or gesture.
 
My EDC gun has been a Ruger LCP, but if I were to go into the city, I may carry my Glock 26 9mm with 12+1 capacity, with a 33rd magazine in case I need to reload.

What about pepper spray or bear spray? Any thoughts?

Also, what about business that do not allows guns? If it is concealed, do you just go in anyway?
I have heard multiple times that carrying a fun stick (extended magazine) can be used in court to show evidence that you intended to get into a conflict. Case 5 on in the link below, the lawyer describes carrying an extended mag as "tactically sound legal suicide"

Extended Mag and other Self Defense Case Examples

As far as I understand, carrying a firearm into an establishment that prohibits them is not a crime but a basis to be asked to leave the premise. Same as if you weren't in proper attire for a restaurant or brought a dog into a store where they weren't allowed. If you don't leave you could be arrested for trespassing. I may be wrong but I believe the sign technically serves as notification to leave, but it does not hold up in court as people have argued they did not see the sign.

Furthermore I believe government facilities, IE court houses can enforce no firearms polices with a higher charge. That might just be my state though.

I have no kids so I don't go to schools, and therefore, have no idea about the laws on that one.

YMMV since a lot of states have their own laws. If you have a concealed carry permit carry where ever you please in regards to private businesses, its your second amendment right.
 

MiroKlose

Sparrow
If I had a family with me during such a confrontation with those savages, I would rather swallow my pride and yell "Go BLM". The safety of my family takes priority over my political/ideological inclinations. And I would not use any weapons either, whilst they might safeguard me for that moment, it would still screw my family as for sure the corrupt government would hunt me down like that prosecutor going after the Mccloskeys.

A few broken windows, BLM thugs standing atop my car, deferring to them is okay than letting them kill me and my family both illegally and (il)legally !

I will show my fury during elections!
 

Easy_C

Crow
If I had a family with me during such a confrontation with those savages, I would rather swallow my pride and yell "Go BLM". The safety of my family takes priority over my political/ideological inclinations. And I would not use any weapons either, whilst they might safeguard me for that moment, it would still screw my family as for sure the corrupt government would hunt me down like that prosecutor going after the Mccloskeys.

A few broken windows, BLM thugs standing atop my car, deferring to them is okay than letting them kill me and my family both illegally and (il)legally !

I will show my fury during elections!
they don't always give you the chance. they have a very good pack instinct for understanding intuitively who is part of the tribe and who isn't.
 

ArizonaGuy

Pigeon
Although I do carry a firearm I believe in proportionate response. A can of bear spray will go a long way in something less that a full-on mass panic. I heard once that it had the potential to cause permanent blindness in humans so a few years ago at the SHOT Show I asked a guy at the booth of the manufacturer if this was true. Turns out he was their chief chemist and he replied "Do you think we'd have an approved product that could blind bears?!"
 

EndlessGravity

Woodpecker
@Sam Malone
Anyone with kids will know (or tell you) that kid's, especially teenagers, love to question things and/or show defiance.
It's crazy, isn't it? I sometimes assess men I know or meet. We've all had an issue getting a kid in a car. However, if you can't command your own in good times, how much worse will it be in a violent confrontation? This is as much training as anything else.

@bmw633
My EDC gun has been a Ruger LCP, but if I were to go into the city, I may carry my Glock 26 9mm with 12+1 capacity, with a 33rd magazine in case I need to reload.
I'm not an expert but the Glock would be my choice unless something smaller is needed. Compact and sub-compact models are reasonable alternatives.

What about pepper spray or bear spray? Any thoughts?
I've been told this isn't a good idea. You aren't going to stop a mob with pepper spray. You can see this is many videos. What happens if it blows back into your eyes? If you can carry, carry.

Also, what about business that do not allows guns? If it is concealed, do you just go in anyway?
Depends on your state. I respond below to this fact. If signs do not carry the force of law in your state, you don't have to follow them. This is not meant to be legal advice on my part.

@SleveMcDichael
As far as I understand
Good link. However, I strongly suggest you read up on your state laws. Also don't give advice to others in other states without giving them the caveat that their state may differ from yours.

Let's add "read up on case law in your state and nationally" to our list though. "Have a state firearms attorney's number with you at all times" is another and for God's sake, wait to consult with him afterward before anything else. I mean ANYTHING.

@MiroKlose
I will show my fury during elections!
You understand you're talking about violent, national, political rioting and voting at the same time, right?
 

bmw633

Robin
If I had a family with me during such a confrontation with those savages, I would rather swallow my pride and yell "Go BLM". The safety of my family takes priority over my political/ideological inclinations. And I would not use any weapons either, whilst they might safeguard me for that moment, it would still screw my family as for sure the corrupt government would hunt me down like that prosecutor going after the Mccloskeys.

A few broken windows, BLM thugs standing atop my car, deferring to them is okay than letting them kill me and my family both illegally and (il)legally !

I will show my fury during elections!
At what point with a mob surrounding your car, shattering windows, etc., before they grab you and whoever and attack you? Have seen some sceneries that did end well for the motorist.

How about Garrett Foster with the AK47, who pointed his rifle and the driver opened fire, killing Foster? In Texas, he is OK, due to Stand Your Ground Laws. Other states, he would be charged with murder.
 
Good link. However, I strongly suggest you read up on your state laws. Also don't give advice to others in other states without giving them the caveat that their state may differ from yours.
I have and provided the "individual state laws may vary" clause as well.
YMMV since a lot of states have their own laws. If you have a concealed carry permit carry where ever you please in regards to private businesses, its your second amendment right.
What I have found is the sheriffs office in three states I needed to know (VT, IL, WI) will often provide you a concealed carry statues handbook that you get when you apply for your CCW (I needed to ask for the guidebook, they didn't just give them to me). These books ONLY provide the laws concerning concealed carry and acceptable use scenarios. General gun ownership laws, castle doctrine, hunting regulations, and the WHERE and WHAT you can carry are never discussed. They read like any other compilation of regulation and statues...they won't provide you with a complete explanation or understanding (unless you are a judge I suppose). So you'll get some answers on questions such as can you use your firearm in defense of others, and the regulations of concealed carry and the regulations of open carry (sometimes open carry isn't even mentioned even if legal). They never go into semantics (IE If a handgun is concealed by clothing but unintentionally shows whether by "printing" or accidental exposure would that be brandishing?). That example has been before the courts in my state multiple times and goes each way. Also, many folks realize this but the police certainly won't provide you with any further clarification. So don't expect your local sheriff to seem happy you did your homework and help clear any questions up. When I was younger I thought they might actually want to help me be law abiding haha!

At what point with a mob surrounding your car, shattering windows, etc., before they grab you and whoever and attack you? Have seen some sceneries that did end well for the motorist.

How about Garrett Foster with the AK47, who pointed his rifle and the driver opened fire, killing Foster? In Texas, he is OK, due to Stand Your Ground Laws. Other states, he would be charged with murder.
The best advice (for the non law gifted) is to find a gun store, take a class, and register with the association they recommend that provides rapid legal assistance in gun related incidents. You'll get legal protection, SOME case knowledge, and usually a little training on the scenario you mentioned above. Personally, 15 years in my state and a firearms enthusiast, and I still don't know my laws completely and see contradictory rulings in cases all the time. That's the big takeaway. No understanding is complete and the gray area and variance in verdicts and sentencing is massive even within states. Cities have their own laws too of course! My state courts are worse than the Supreme Court in providing guidance as well these days leaving the aforementioned gray areas. If you want to CC (and you should) you are providing a vector for a legal attack on you while minimizing the physical one. We haven't even mentioned that just about anywhere, even a lawful use of self defense can still open you to civil liability which will ruin you and has a much lower standard to find you with some sort of guilt!

This is one hill I DO stand on and would do the 3-6 months you see for lesser firearm violations (the accidental brandishing, and self defense with a concealed weapon without possession of a CC permit for example). The guy in my case above was eventually sentenced to 40 days in jail for example. Ill stand up for my constitutional rights any day. Naturally I can't be bothered to care about possibly "trespassing" just like many here disregard the mask laws...which usually ends up being...trespassing.


By the way...I'm jealous of the Ruger LCR BMW...I understand your motive for moving to the Glock but personally a .38 snubbie loaded with .38 SPL +P 125 gr SJHP is my daily carry. I hope to have the cash to upgrade to an LCR soon. I love high cap semi 9mms but they are too bulky and heavy for normal use personally.
 
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bmw633

Robin
B
Get pepper spray or gel - NOT bear spray. Bear spray sounds like it would be stronger than OC spray or pepper spray but it's actually weaker.

Get a few of them and keep one in the car, one within reach of your front door, etc.
Bear spray sprays a longer stream than most pepper spray. Bigger can also can dispatch more belligerents than a small can of Sabre Red. Gel is better than spray for a single combatant since it cannot blow back.
 

bmw633

Robin
I have and provided the "individual state laws may vary" clause as well.

What I have found is the sheriffs office in three states I needed to know (VT, IL, WI) will often provide you a concealed carry statues handbook that you get when you apply for your CCW (I needed to ask for the guidebook, they didn't just give them to me). These books ONLY provide the laws concerning concealed carry and acceptable use scenarios. General gun ownership laws, castle doctrine, hunting regulations, and the WHERE and WHAT you can carry are never discussed. They read like any other compilation of regulation and statues...they won't provide you with a complete explanation or understanding (unless you are a judge I suppose). So you'll get some answers on questions such as can you use your firearm in defense of others, and the regulations of concealed carry and the regulations of open carry (sometimes open carry isn't even mentioned even if legal). They never go into semantics (IE If a handgun is concealed by clothing but unintentionally shows whether by "printing" or accidental exposure would that be brandishing?). That example has been before the courts in my state multiple times and goes each way. Also, many folks realize this but the police certainly won't provide you with any further clarification. So don't expect your local sheriff to seem happy you did your homework and help clear any questions up. When I was younger I thought they might actually want to help me be law abiding haha!



The best advice (for the non law gifted) is to find a gun store, take a class, and register with the association they recommend that provides rapid legal assistance in gun related incidents. You'll get legal protection, SOME case knowledge, and usually a little training on the scenario you mentioned above. Personally, 15 years in my state and a firearms enthusiast, and I still don't know my laws completely and see contradictory rulings in cases all the time. That's the big takeaway. No understanding is complete and the gray area and variance in verdicts and sentencing is massive even within states. Cities have their own laws too of course! My state courts are worse than the Supreme Court in providing guidance as well these days leaving the aforementioned gray areas. If you want to CC (and you should) you are providing a vector for a legal attack on you while minimizing the physical one. We haven't even mentioned that just about anywhere, even a lawful use of self defense can still open you to civil liability which will ruin you and has a much lower standard to find you with some sort of guilt!

This is one hill I DO stand on and would do the 3-6 months you see for lesser firearm violations (the accidental brandishing, and self defense with a concealed weapon without possession of a CC permit for example). The guy in my case above was eventually sentenced to 40 days in jail for example. Ill stand up for my constitutional rights any day. Naturally I can't be bothered to care about possibly "trespassing" just like many here disregard the mask laws...which usually ends up being...trespassing.


By the way...I'm jealous of the Ruger LCR BMW...I understand your motive for moving to the Glock but personally a .38 snubbie loaded with .38 SPL +P 125 gr SJHP is my daily carry. I hope to have the cash to upgrade to an LCR soon. I love high cap semi 9mms but they are too bulky and heavy for normal use personally.
What I worry about is having enough capacity and being able to reload quickly. I have a G17, G19, and a G26, and the beauty of them is that I can use the G17 and G19 magazines in the G26, as well as the 33rd Korean magazines, on sale for $13 online.

I bought a couple of Taurus PT111 G2 Millennium pistols, and Promag makes a 32 round magazine that fits. They are about the same size as my G26, buy haven't had a chance to shoot them.

The single stack 9mms are OK, but I like the option of a higher capacity if need be.
 
I bought a couple of Taurus PT111 G2 Millennium pistols, and Promag makes a 32 round magazine that fits. They are about the same size as my G26, buy haven't had a chance to shoot them.
My first pistol was a Taurus PT111 Millenium Pro. Second strike capability, 12rd magazines, and good Heine sights. Its feed ramp is the highest quality in my entire collection and still has a mirror polish to this day. Probably about 2000 rounds through it and maybe 10-15 malfunctions. The G2 ones look amazing with the updated form factor and moving the loaded chamber indicator to the top.

Previous advice about moderation in self defense may need to be revised as cities become more dangerous (and legal ramifications get extremely punitive for minor infractions). I do totally understand your mindset.

One consideration - have you thought about mounting a strobe to the front of your pistol? With the amount of ammunition and the rig to contain it you are considering this would be a small increase in weight and size. You are effectively suiting up for battle rather than self defense with your choices and you would almost need the additional advantage of blinding light to sustain a firefight while beating trail if there are multiple assailants who were armed with guns. The light can handle anyone that the mace misses. Mine will blind in broad daylight but the battery needs changed about every 3-4 months even without use. I need to find a use for half dead 123 cells. :squintlol:

I keep a Walther CCP with the stobe as my car gun. Between the revolver and the pistol, I'm reasonably equipped for my neck of the woods. Never had anything more than an aggressive bum get in my way. The Taurus is now on living room duty enjoying retirement.
 
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infowarrior1

Hummingbird
If I had a family with me during such a confrontation with those savages, I would rather swallow my pride and yell "Go BLM". The safety of my family takes priority over my political/ideological inclinations. And I would not use any weapons either, whilst they might safeguard me for that moment, it would still screw my family as for sure the corrupt government would hunt me down like that prosecutor going after the Mccloskeys.

A few broken windows, BLM thugs standing atop my car, deferring to them is okay than letting them kill me and my family both illegally and (il)legally !

I will show my fury during elections!
Plugging this website:
nononsenseselfdefense.com

Don't get into those situations in the 1st place. Slip away if you can. Move to a more advantageous area where you have other Men around you who have your back.

Get yourself and your sons and other male relatives armed and trained up so that your family also has each other's back. Train as a Unit not only with your Male relatives but also all other Men who you can trust has your back.

Find yourself a home in places that are easy to exit and doesn't box you in. Move to Rural area if you can. Cities are much more of a shooting gallery than the countryside.
 

bmw633

Robin
I have a laser/flashlight combo on my G17, which is by my bedside in a drawer. I also have a Taurus Judge with 00 Buckshot, but my G17 would be first gun I would reach for.

If small pistols are important, I have a couple of WaLther P22 .22LR. I use
Plugging this website:
nononsenseselfdefense.com

Don't get into those situations in the 1st place. Slip away if you can. Move to a more advantageous area where you have other Men around you who have your back.

Get yourself and your sons and other male relatives armed and trained up so that your family also has each other's back. Train as a Unit not only with your Male relatives but also all other Men who you can trust has your back.

Find yourself a home in places that are easy to exit and doesn't box you in. Move to Rural area if you can. Cities are much more of a shooting gallery than the countryside.
Women in the family should also have firearms training, too. Rural areas with a uniform ethnic population are easier to defend than a wide diversity of people's and faiths.

Another thought: women who are charged in shootings get very lenient sentences, as compared to a man.
 
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