Prioritizing pets over having children

[TrainedLogosmotion]

What is your opinion on this? For example, a guy I know at my Orthodox church is forgoing having children with his wife because he has three little dogs.

They are both devout, healthy, mid 30s, and financially stable. Isn't this sinful to avoid having children and treat your pets as children? Many people seem to use pets as surrogate children and love animals more than people, but when it's a Christian I find it even more baffling.

I am pretty sure catholics would consider it sinful because they are overly/heavily focused on reproduction alone, but the Orthodox have a more nuanced view on the purpose of marriage and sexual union. But I just don't see having to take care of pets as an excuse.

It's also worth mentioning that these pet fanatic type of people seem to think their pets are going to heaven and have souls.

 

[Saul Goodman]

It depends. We are encouraged to have big families because thats God's will for married couples. However, there are times where it's not the best option especially for those who have a distain for children because remember, as St Paul says, marriage is first and foremost for those who cannot control their sexual urges. Marriage gives them an outlet if they can't control themselves. However, it's definitely encouraged to have as many children as you can afford/manage because these kids are a blessing and an opportunity for them to have a share in the hereafter. I've heard Father Kosmas say that when he first started as a priest, he was baffeled at other priests telling some of the faithfull to not have kids. Later he realised that sometimes this is the only option, because many people, especially nowadays, have a lot of trauma or are outright mentally ill and are unfit to raise children. So while having children is blessed and encouraged, neglecting them is a much worse sin than not having any kids. Also to note, St Paul mentions that women will be saved through childbearing, so there's that.

 

[DanielH]

The pet idolatry in the West is truly insane, however I would assume the best of that couple, perhaps a fertility issue, which is more and more prevalent, also predominantly in the West. These two phenomena are interconnected.

 

[Salocin]

For some people having pets seems like self-inflicted lockdown.

They can only be away from home for 3 to 4 hours at a time lest their animal will urinate or defecate on the floor.

They can not go on even a short weekend getaway without finding someone to care for the animals while they are gone.

Or, if they take the pet it really limits where they can stay, and what they can do while on the trip.

I do not understand people's obsession with pet ownership.

 

[Viktor Zeegelaar]

The pet idolatry in the West is truly insane, however I would assume the best of that couple, perhaps a fertility issue, which is more and more prevalent, also predominantly in the West. These two phenomena are interconnected.

It's no wonder sperm counts have been dropping for decades, and testosterone, while due to anticonception the oestrogen levels of women have dropped and fertility as well. The entire food/medicine system is set up to make us more infertile. It's all a mindbending scam.

 

[Cynllo]

A friend mentioned this some time ago. He is a music teacher and has a few students who are animal parents. One of them has missed the birthing window without realising it. The other are a pair of weirdos who dorddle over the dogs. I've come across this type and find them to be perverse. Usually women who dominate their soft man-fellow.

At a minimum dog ownership should be banned in urban environments. House dogs are mental and towns/cities are covered in their business. Recently it was snowing here and you could see extreme amounts of yellow patches in the fields. If you're outside in the summer, you are going to be getting dog urine all over you. This is not to mention their rear offerings.

As a male I see pets as far below my remit. Complete waste of time dealing with them. If you're putting 10+hours per week into a mental dog, there are lots of things you'd likely rather be doing. But animals are an easy safe space for tossers. If they exist at all, they are the responsibility of the wife or children. Children seems most appropriate to me. Teach them some responsibility. Wife should be taking care of the children. Pets are the lowest rung.

It's no wonder sperm counts have been dropping for decades, and testosterone, while due to anticonception the oestrogen levels of women have dropped and fertility as well. The entire food/medicine system is set up to make us more infertile. It's all a mindbending scam.

I was thinking about this general topic recently. I've been working outside a lot for about 3 weeks. I'm sure this has a big effect on T.

After one day outside I got in and could imagine my baby coming in and lying on me, after her day, just sensing that she has some sort of man to come and rest on at the end of the day. I felt like a man. While if you are in a cubicle all day, everything about it is feminine. I can imagine the cubicle worker coming home and noodling around his micro appartment, softly putting on a pot noodle or other highly-processed soy abomination. The disappointed co-habitat slips in. Unlike the soyed house-male, the effects of being in a cubicle all day have masculined the house-madam due to stress, feminism etc. Does she want to curl up with this limpet? No, she's got a stinky dog she'd rather cover herself in.

If men are doing something with animal it should be more like farm, rurual work. Pets turn men into sweet-teas.

 

[TrainedLogosmotion]

For some people having pets seems like self-inflicted lockdown.

They can only be away from home for 3 to 4 hours at a time lest their animal will urinate or defecate on the floor.

They can not go on even a short weekend getaway without finding someone to care for the animals while they are gone.

Or, if they take the pet it really limits where they can stay, and what they can do while on the trip.

I do not understand people's obsession with pet ownership.

I feel like they are just surrogate children. And people have weird twisted beliefs that their animals are way smarter than they actually are. Dogs and cats have no self awareness or any spiritual aspect to them. They just want food.

My other buddy has a dog. His dream is to be semi retired overseas which he is capable of doing now, but he can't becuase "it would be too stressful for her (his dog) so I need to wait until she passes away (perhaps another 5-10 years?)".

My sister is gay and crazy and her and her girlfriend of course have dogs and cats that they treat like children. My mother also when she lost her nest she got cats and treats them like children. She's a psycho about them. But she ignores the fact that they kill birds and other small animals everyday.

 

[TrainedLogosmotion]

A friend mentioned this some time ago. He is a music teacher and has a few students who are animal parents. One of them has missed the birthing window without realising it. The other are a pair of weirdos who dorddle over the dogs. I've come across this type and find them to be perverse. Usually women who dominate their soft man-fellow.

At a minimum dog ownership should be banned in urban environments. House dogs are mental and towns/cities are covered in their business. Recently it was snowing here and you could see extreme amounts of yellow patches in the fields. If you're outside in the summer, you are going to be getting dog urine all over you. This is not to mention their rear offerings.

As a male I see pets as far below my remit. Complete waste of time dealing with them. If you're putting 10+hours per week into a mental dog, there are lots of things you'd likely rather be doing. But animals are an easy safe space for tossers. If they exist at all, they are the responsibility of the wife or children. Children seems most appropriate to me. Teach them some responsibility. Wife should be taking care of the children. Pets are the lowest rung.



I was thinking about this general topic recently. I've been working outside a lot for about 3 weeks. I'm sure this has a big effect on T.

After one day outside I got in and could imagine my baby coming in and lying on me, after her day, just sensing that she has some sort of man to come and rest on at the end of the day. I felt like a man. While if you are in a cubicle all day, everything about it is feminine. I can imagine the cubicle worker coming home and noodling around his micro appartment, softly putting on a pot noodle or other highly-processed soy abomination. The disappointed co-habitat slips in. Unlike the soyed house-male, the effects of being in a cubicle all day have masculined the house-madam due to stress, feminism etc. Does she want to curl up with this limpet? No, she's got a stinky dog she'd rather cover herself in.

If men are doing something with animal it should be more like farm, rurual work. Pets turn men into sweet-teas.

Hilarious! Lol

 

[Cynllo]

Doing a little more reading. Not much info, but not surprisingly being a man increases sperm count, and being a woman lowers it.

Male fertility study: Men who regularly lift heavy objects at work have higher sperm counts

Men who regularly lift heavy objects at work have higher sperm counts, according to a new study from researchers at Brigham and Women’s Hospital.

www.denverpost.com

The researchers found that men who reported often lifting or moving heavy objects at work had 46% higher sperm concentration and 44% higher total sperm count

The Relationship between Occupation and Semen Quality

Infertility can be a major concern for couples trying to conceive, and occupational hazards may constitute a main cause of infertility in men. Studies conducted throughout the world indicate that physical and chemical hazards in the workplace can have ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Physically Demanding Work Tied to Male Fertility

Occupational factors associated with higher sperm concentrations and serum testosterone

hms.harvard.edu

 

[prisonplanet]

At a minimum dog ownership should be banned in urban environments.

Would not be ideal for me as I work live in a city and work with dogs for a living.

 

[prisonplanet]

Cat obsession in particular is very odd at best. Very wicked cultures are known to even worship felines - not unlike the elevation of females above men in a society.

Dogs, I think, are different. They naturally follow men into dangerous situations. God seems to have made them genuinely "man's best friend" so to speak. The two big mistakes people make nowadays is 1) women having dogs, and 2) treating dogs like companions rather than followers. I'm not saying take dogs away from single women, but it is obvious that they would rather follow a man around. In my work with dogs, I've dealt with single women and their dogs always want to stay with me. It's kind of sad, and is not a reflection of being some dog whisperer. It's just that I'm a man, and dogs follow the alpha male. Regardless of "alpha" speak, I am the alpha by default as they are women and I'm a man.

My dog follows me everywhere she can, but if I've got something I can't do with her, too bad, she stays at home. People need to be disciplined with their dogs as they would be a child, create boundaries etc.

Certainly pets can enter a sort of idolatry as a replacement for children, and so in general I agree with OP on that, but it's often somewhere in the middle. People who were blessed always had a lot of animals, like Job, but how we deal with them determine a lot. The culture cares more about animals than people, so pet owners are scared of disciplining their dog and giving them boundaries/purpose, for fear of public shaming.

 

[Psycho Rooster]

I feel like they are just surrogate children. And people have weird twisted beliefs that their animals are way smarter than they actually are. Dogs and cats have no self awareness or any spiritual aspect to them. They just want food.

Sure dogs playing with each other and dogs that will defend their owner to the death are only motivated by food. And all the saints and monastics who've had deep connections with dogs are heretics. Right.

Anything can become an idol but people who go in the opposite direction are delusional and quite frankly people I don't want to be associated with. Even Hitler loved dogs. The loyalty they show goes way beyond just food.

Dogs, I think, are different. They naturally follow men into dangerous situations. God seems to have made them genuinely "man's best friend" so to speak. The two big mistakes people make nowadays is 1) women having dogs, and 2) treating dogs like companions rather than followers. I'm not saying take dogs away from single women, but it is obvious that they would rather follow a man around. In my work with dogs, I've dealt with single women and their dogs always want to stay with me. It's kind of sad, and is not a reflection of being some dog whisperer. It's just that I'm a man, and dogs follow the alpha male. Regardless of "alpha" speak, I am the alpha by default as they are women and I'm a man.

I've had similar experiences. The fact that it's so uncommon says alot about our current culture. A calm, firm but compassionate masculinity is rare, most men are either pusher overs or try to make up for it by being irate. Also helps to be strong enough to cradle a large dog like a baby without any effort. Surprisingly effective at establishing dominance without too much force for dogs that aren't violent or aggressive.

 

[Beachywanderer]

I wonder how Hollywood portrays or romanticize dogs as pets compared to cat owner more as weirdos? The likeable, next door men often have super sweet dog bestfriends?

 

[TrainedLogosmotion]

Sure dogs playing with each other and dogs that will defend their owner to the death are only motivated by food. And all the saints and monastics who've had deep connections with dogs are heretics. Right.

Anything can become an idol but people who go in the opposite direction are delusional and quite frankly people I don't want to be associated with. Even Hitler loved dogs. The loyalty they show goes way beyond just food.

I've had similar experiences. The fact that it's so uncommon says alot about our current culture. A calm, firm but compassionate masculinity is rare, most men are either pusher overs or try to make up for it by being irate. Also helps to be strong enough to cradle a large dog like a baby without any effort. Surprisingly effective at establishing dominance without too much force for dogs that aren't violent or aggressive.

I bet if you gave a dog a choice between a steak and saving your life it would choose the steak. I've read stories about loving cats eating their owners when they passed away. My post was not intended to strike hate on God's furry creatures or suggest it's bad to own them - but just at the end of the day animals are driven almost solely by their instincts, and we musn't idolize them or exaggerate their worthiness. Their love is shallow at best.

I'm not saying they ONLY want food. Sure there's an emotional connection they have with their owners. But it's ultimately pavlovian. I don't hate animals I'm just saying people should prioritize humans over beasts especially when it comes to using them as surrogate children.

You'll notice people like vegans go to the extremes of this and actually hate humans/children and idolize animals and climate over their brothers and sisters and preach antinatalism. It's cringe, borders mental illness, and requires a spiritual adjustment.

I've considered getting another dog again myself but I'm forgoing it becuase I don't want it to interfere with my goals for children that glorify God. That's a personal choice. I realize many of our brothers and sisters here have children and animals. Again, just wanted to discuss reasons for this phenomenon.

Sorry if my post triggered you I didn't mean to offend anyone. I love animals! ❤️

 

[Simple Man]

Dogs are great. My old mate is almost 14 years old, I went out and got him on my 19th birthday from a family that abused and neglected him. He’s been with me my entire adult life, through a lot of ups and downs. It will be a really sad day when he leaves me.
With that being said they definitely do limit your freedom. Im lucky to have my dad around who is always happy to mind him for me, but this dog would stop me from a permanent move overseas, for example, if that’s what I wanted.
He won’t be around much longer, and in a couple of weeks I will be blessed with a baby.. He was a good mate for me when I was far too immature to look after a child.

 

[TrainedLogosmotion]

Dogs are great. My old mate is almost 14 years old, I went out and got him on my 19th birthday from a family that abused and neglected him. He’s been with me my entire adult life, through a lot of ups and downs. It will be a really sad day when he leaves me.
With that being said they definitely do limit your freedom. Im lucky to have my dad around who is always happy to mind him for me, but this dog would stop me from a permanent move overseas, for example, if that’s what I wanted.
He won’t be around much longer, and in a couple of weeks I will be blessed with a baby.. He was a good mate for me when I was far too immature to look after a child.

It's funny that dogs/cats seem to be more of a commitment than actual children. For example it's easy to get a babysitter or family member to watch a child. You can travel with a baby or toddler. You can move with them overseas with you with less hassle than a four legged creature.

I never really realized a lot of what is being expressed here in this thread until recently and it's kind of opened my eyes. I'm glad I chose not to get another dog as much as I do love them.

I feel that time is better spent helping humans at a homeless shelter rather than dogs/cats at an animal shelter. I've seen people treating street animals with better respect than their fellow homeless man.

Not knocking you for adopting a dog. I'm sure you have a good heart. I do however think adopting a child is more glorifying to God. Don't take that the wrong way. I just mean in general.