Pros or Cons - you make the call

lunchmoney

Woodpecker
This could be an interesting insight on what those of us in the community deem as of value with a woman. Below are a list of 10 facts about a woman I recently met and have been on 3 dates. In your reply, list how many of these facts are positive (PROS) and how many are negative/red flags (CONS).

- 32 years old, never married, no kids
- Lives with mother
- Natural parents were never married, although father was in her life
- Claims to have two "fathers", her natural father and the man who her mother married while she was in college, stepfather
- Has a career (journalist for a small newspaper)
- Has spoken about getting married, however is mum on the topic of children post-marriage
- Involved in her church pre-Covid (choir)
- Claims to have not been in a serious relationship in 4 years
- Does not drive nor own a car (always relied on mass transit)
- Has owned her dog since 23 and based on their interaction, views it as a child

Physically she is not the "hottest"girl I have talked to, and she admittedly has had a sheltered upbringing by her parents.
 
CON - 32 years old, never married, no kids
CON - Lives with mother
CON - Natural parents were never married, although father was in her life
CON - Claims to have two "fathers", her natural father and the man who her mother married while she was in college, stepfather
CON - Has a career (journalist for a small newspaper)
CON - Has spoken about getting married, however is mum on the topic of children post-marriage
PRO - Involved in her church pre-Covid (choir)
UNDECIDED - Claims to have not been in a serious relationship in 4 years
CON - Does not drive nor own a car (always relied on mass transit)
CON - Has owned her dog since 23 and based on their interaction, views it as a child

PRO - Physically she is not the "hottest"girl I have talked to, and she admittedly has had a sheltered upbringing by her parents.

What's your intentions with her?
 

Red Wings

Pigeon
>CON - is 32 years old
Straight up she’s too old
>PRO - is never married
Don’t want someone with that kind of baggage
>PRO - has no kids
Don’t want to be a biological cuckhold wasting your time and resources on someone else’s kids
>PRO - lives with mother
Less independence in a woman is good
>CON - parents never married
Broken family structure
>PRO - father in her life
Decreased daddy issues
>CON - claims to have 2 fathers
This is just delusional
>CON - has a career
This one is obvious
>NEUTRAL - talks about getting married
It’s good that she wants to be married, but you have to wonder why it hasn’t happened by 32 years old
>PRO - involved in church
More socially conservative
>PRO - on choir
Maybe she’s a good singer
>CON - not in a serious relationship for 4 years
Probably been doing nasty casual stuff for 4 years
>PRO - does not own or drive a car
Less independent
>CON - views her dog as a child
Huge delusion to placate the mothering instinct
>PRO - not very hot
Less likely to be full of herself
>PRO - sheltered upbringing
More innocent

edit - added last bullet point
 

Mr.S

Chicken
32 years old (con), never married (pro), no kids (pro). Obviously age is the issue here. She’s in the autumn of her beauty, less so if she never tanned. Women shouldn’t tan because it makes their skin like leather. If you’re over 32 you should accept that you’re in the same age range.

- Lives with mother (pro) better chance of stricter moral supervision. Probably she has more money too. Make sure she doesn’t have student loan debt you’d sign onto by marrying her.

- Natural parents were never married, although father was in her life (con) broken and non traditional families are always a risk but either she’s messed up or she isn’t, should be easy to tell.

- Claims to have two "fathers", her natural father and the man who her mother married while she was in college, stepfather (con) check to make sure she doesn’t have daddy issues. This type of thing can lead to promiscuity and degeneracy.

- Has a career (journalist for a small newspaper) (caution) she has a career that includes skills which would make her a good mother able to advocate for her children and extract information from others. Make sure she doesn’t plan to pursue her career if you want children (or is willing to drop it to stay home). She might give you a bs answer here, really be careful on this one. The mother’s role in a child’s life cannot be omitted.

- Has spoken about getting married, however is mum on the topic of children post-marriage (con) if you want children you need to have this conversation now and let her know that it’s a deal breaker if you see it that way.

- Involved in her church pre-Covid (choir) (pro) obviously church involvement is good but make sure she isn’t afraid of covid. Covid is a Good litmus test to determine whether a person is weak or strong when faced with adversity.

- Claims to have not been in a serious relationship in 4 years (caution) does that mean she is railing guys left or right or that she’s been out of the game? Find out her body count and make sure it’s something you’re willing to accept. Nobody wants to put their life savings on a car with 300,000 miles. Probably a straightforward way to do this is to make negative remarks about promiscuous women and see how she reacts.

- Does not drive nor own a car (always relied on mass transit) (con unless you’re in a city or Europe)

- Has owned her dog since 23 and based on their interaction, views it as a child (con) dogs consume financial and time resources needlessly, inhibit mobility, they’re loud and obnoxious, but there are redeeming qualities. This one’s nearing the end of its lifespan. At least she’s used to taking care of a living being, however her attitude towards it could be concerning. Look to see how well trained it is. If it’s untrained that means her life is chaos and she will spoil your kids, if it’s over trained and completely obedient like a robot - expect the same fate as the dog, and if it’s decently behaved that’s a good sign.
Physically she is not the "hottest"girl I have talked to, and she admittedly has had a sheltered upbringing by her parents. (Pro) she doesn’t need to be hot, she needs only to satisfy you. Her looks will be gone in a decade. Is she going to be a good wife for the remaining 2/3 of your life?
 

get2choppaaa

Pelican
So either:

1 Stop sperging out and either continue to assess this person's suitability in regards to their faith walk and yours and how you may compliment each other toward salvation...

Or my advice:

2 recognize that if you are having to do a data sheet you need to move on.

Also ask yourself where are you that you need to rely on the comments of folks on the internet to make judgement and objectify someone you are considering to be in a relationship with.

That sort of thing will only lead to doubt about the person if you do pursue a relationship with them.

It should be obvious what is of value in a woman... Her shortcomings are only relative to the shortcomings in your life.

That's my take .... Hope it helps.
 
You have not at all elaborated on her faith. If she does not have strong faith and is not an absolute angel, the cons are pretty glaring in my opinion, the biggest being that she is a 32 yo journalist.
 

lunchmoney

Woodpecker
You have not at all elaborated on her faith. If she does not have strong faith and is not an absolute angel, the cons are pretty glaring in my opinion, the biggest being that she is a 32 yo journalist.
Keep in mind we have only been on 3 dates, so my interpretation of her faith is based solely on her representation, however she appears to have grown up in the church.
 

lunchmoney

Woodpecker
Does any 32 year-old single woman in the USA have a "sheltered" upbringing in this day and age? What does this mean? Less than 20 partners? Honest question.
According to her she has been in only 4 relationships as an adult and had only 3 partners. I of course do not take that for gospel, however that is what she shared.
 

The_Trigg

Robin
According to her she has been in only 4 relationships as an adult and had only 3 partners. I of course do not take that for gospel, however that is what she shared.
Thanks, a question to ask would be why not marry the other guys? What happened? If she's attractive like you say, and kinda trad, surely there were men interested in putting a ring on it. I would think a good-looking trad girl with at least two bfs would be married by no later than 25/27, unless these men were maybe chads/flings who were non-committal- which in that case, would cast some doubt on the numbers she's providing, the types of men she's interested in, and her motivations in those relationships.
 
According to her she has been in only 4 relationships as an adult and had only 3 partners. I of course do not take that for gospel, however that is what she shared.
As a general rule of thumb you should, especially for low notch count, at least double the number of partners that she reports on. But you probably know that. Do you want kids? If so, how many? If we do the maths, we can conclude that the earliest she is getting a child is 34.
I always think that an accurate calculation of different sexual partners of women is to begin at 18 and add 1 sexual partner every year up to her current age. So in your case 14. And one is conservative. Unless of course she is really trad and has faith. Good luck.
 

Joe316

Robin
The question which really needs to be asked is why @lunchmoney is even concerning himself with this woman. Lack of alternatives comes to my mind.

Don't weigh the pros and cons of your one date, get enough exposure to eligible women and then pick and choose.
 

lunchmoney

Woodpecker
The question which really needs to be asked is why @lunchmoney is even concerning himself with this woman. Lack of alternatives comes to my mind.

Don't weigh the pros and cons of your one date, get enough exposure to eligible women and then pick and choose.
Remember @Joe316 - 3 dates in with this girl. I compiled all of this info, and in the interest of sharing for discussion on this forum, provided the facts.

The odds of something long term with her are remote, however there are many others who can learn from the advice shared.
 

Ovid

Woodpecker
This could be an interesting insight on what those of us in the community deem as of value with a woman. Below are a list of 10 facts about a woman I recently met and have been on 3 dates. In your reply, list how many of these facts are positive (PROS) and how many are negative/red flags (CONS).

- 32 years old, never married, no kids
Borderline age. She best be getting married ASAP if she is at all inclined to have a family. Could be ok, could be major red flag. Why hasn’t she been married before now?
- Lives with mother
Not bad in itself. But by 32 she should be feeling anxious to make her own life.
- Natural parents were never married, although father was in her life
Huge red flag.
- Claims to have two "fathers", her natural father and the man who her mother married
Huge red flag.
- Has a career (journalist for a small newspaper)
Not necessarily bad in itself but concerning. By age 32 she should have a career or steady job, so it shows she can handle and understand the basics of life. But journalist is a red flag. Women who think of themselves as writers and intellectuals are usually more trouble than they’re worth, and also usually liberal. Overall red flag for relationship.
- Has spoken about getting married, however is mum on the topic of children post-marriage
Is this Moscow in 1989? She may not want to “scare” you, but, she should be thinking of kids and should mention this (real talk) to a man she is potentially interested in, at her age. Red flag for sure.

- Involved in her church pre-Covid (choir)
Neutral but not looking good. Did she go to church for social purposes? And is it one of those feel good places? Doesn’t suggest a deep and abiding faith.
- Claims to have not been in a serious relationship in 4 years
Red flag. She hasn’t been riding the carousel ...recently anyway... but at her age, she just doesn’t sound that interested in meeting a guy and having a relationship, so she’s probably got some mental issues/hang ups/you are a man not her psych.
- Does not drive nor own a car (always relied on mass transit)
Red flag unless you live in NYC I guess. Lack of basic life skills. Not a dealbreaker in itself but taken as a whole...
- Has owned her dog since 23 and based on their interaction, views it as a child
Huge red flag. Typical modern woman who adores animals as a surrogate for human relationships. Not good marriage and mother material.
Physically she is not the "hottest"girl I have talked to,
Neutral... you want to marry a 6-7.5 not an 8, or she will be getting hit on all the time. If she’s not hot because she’s too fat though, it’s a red flag.
and she admittedly has had a sheltered upbringing by her parents.
A good sign.

——-
Overall it sounds like this woman is not good relationship material. She’s not bringing much to the table and there are some serious red flags. By 3 dates in I feel like you should have a sense of whether these things hint to a shy and reclusive life from 17-32, or whether they hint at a typical American “educated” girl who rode the carousel to some extent in college and is now thinking of settling down to some extent, but really hesitates to get too “serious.” If the latter, she is not good wife/mother material. Recommendation from provided facts: avoid
 

Augustus_Principe

Woodpecker
This sounds an awful lot like a "Trad cath" woman I chatted with online last year...I guess this must be a growing segment among millennial women who didn't get a move on in terms of finding a man.

I will save you time and like everyone else here, tell you to move on.

Everyone here is asking why she didn't find a man by the age of 32. I was wondering the same thing with the similar age woman I talked to last year. The answer is since she has a career, she sees no need in finding a husband. She has 0 sense of urgency because she can take care of herself. An ACTUAL trad woman will A) Not have a "career" and B) If she happens to have a good job (again, how trad is she if she has a high paying job...), she will drop the job for her husband, provided that he is able to be the sole bread-winner. The woman I talked to had her own big apt, great paying job, had cats that recently passed away, and was a "wino", ie, she would drink a glass or two of wine every night (red flag) to "relax" after a hard-days work. She also came from divorced parents, and a Father who left her Mother in order to fulfill his passions in another country. From the sound of it, while she loved her father, she seems to have had a lot of resentment towards him, which unfortunately meant that spilled to the men she met. While she was "trad", she gave off a feminist vibe when talking about Men and their need to "Man up"(she brought this up frequently) so that women would be able to marry good-quality men. When we got into talking about societal issues, the problem was ALWAYS men, never women... When I asked her why at her age she wasn't married yet, she basically told me no man (red flag) met her standards. She told me she had two proposals and turned both down because of XYZ reasons.... I wont list the reasons, but I will just say that they were ridiculous. She could have 100 percent been married by now if it weren't for her ridiculous standards. Again, she set up such a very high standard because of her mostly non-present father, and because she could take care of herself. She "doesn't need no man" in the true sense.

If I wouldn't have had the experience of talking to this "trad" woman last year, I would think stories like this are far-fetched. A religious woman with a seemingly low date count, "religious", lives at home, etc and still single?...but no, this is becoming the norm. While feminism indeed took hold of non-religious women, it did a toll on women who happen to be practicing Christians as well. It seems that problems such as divorce and no father present also takes its toll on a religious woman as it would on a secular woman. The only difference I see is that for a secular woman, she will perpetually try to fornicate with every Chad she can and reap what she can of her temporary high SMV, while a religious woman will, for the most part, recede to her church community and wait for the literal perfect man that DOES NOT remind her of her father to come along. She will have a long check list ready when this man comes. Both are disordered and should be avoided in terms of marriage prospects.

RVF men, please be careful of this type of woman that myself and LunchMoney have encountered in a church setting. While my interaction was solely online, I would not be surprised to encounter this in person as my time with my church community increases. Everyone should do their best to get a woman in the 20 y.o age range unless they are ready to be Mr. Perfect for an older woman...
 

Ovid

Woodpecker
I don’t think they’re the majority, but they are definitely out there.

The modern world has effectively taken away any economic need for a woman to marry, so they can more easily devolve into spinsterhood.

It’s funny actually, my wife was just complaining about this in the context of religious boarding schools that seem to produce either nuns or proto-feminists who aren’t really interested in marriage.
 

bucky

Ostrich
Her looks will be gone in a decade. Is she going to be a good wife for the remaining 2/3 of your life?
Every time this point is made, I feel the need to refute it. My wife and I have been together for around a decade now, and I still find her hot. I'm constantly counting the days until the next time the grandparents take the kids so I can be alone with her and we can have at each other. More often than not, on the rare occasions when we do something social with other couples I realize that she's one of the best looking of the wives, if not hands down the most beautiful. It's nice.

Of course, women frequently lose their looks after marriage, but it's not a given. A combination of luck, wife goggles, and encouraging your wife to work out and eat right in the right way can preserve her looks well into middle age.
 
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