Protestant Saints?

[fortyfive]

There is a great book, "God's Generals: Why They Succeeded and Why Some Fail" by Roberts Liardon.
A very fascinating insight into the lives of people who served God, and their supernatural experience with Divine presence.
Interestingly, some Christians refuse to read this book because some of these influential evangelists later failed in service.
But exactly that is making this book very valuable. Because we can learn from their fate, that God is keeping His Word truly and "does not show favoritism" Rom 2.11

 

[Poche]

Ok, yes, I think you are correct there.

There is a process in the canonization. It could take centuries.
First level is Servant of God. Then it is Venerable. Then after a miracle is certified it is Blessed. Then after another miracle is certified it is Saint.

 

[EuropeanCanon]

There is a process in the canonization. It could take centuries.
First level is Servant of God. Then it is Venerable. Then after a miracle is certified it is Blessed. Then after another miracle is certified it is Saint.

Thanks for that, I was wondering what those terms signified

 

[Poche]

Thanks for that, I was wondering what those terms signified

If they consider you as a servant of God then you are very likely in Heaven. The question is if you are worthy of public veneration.

 

[Laurus]

Saint is just another term for Christian. Paul used the term for "average" Christians, therefore we can do it.

The verses you posted even say "called to be saints", as it is a process to become a saint. Do you think a sodomite who just repentend and got baptized a couple weeks ago is a saint? I once had a discussion with a Pentecostal and he said the Holy Virgin Mary and he are on the same level of sanctity, and played her role as Mother of God down to "it was just a special privilege [nothing else]", as if having the Incarnate God Himself in your womb and raising Him for 30 years is like another Tuesday working as a used car salesman.

 

[Turretin]

The verses you posted even say "called to be saints", as it is a process to become a saint. Do you think a sodomite who just repentend and got baptized a couple weeks ago is a saint? I once had a discussion with a Pentecostal and he said the Holy Virgin Mary and he are on the same level of sanctity, and played her role as Mother of God down to "it was just a special privilege [nothing else]", as if having the Incarnate God Himself in your womb and raising Him for 30 years is like another Tuesday working as a used car salesman.

to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord - a saint is someone sanctified in Christ who calls upon the name of the Lord.

here is the RSV Catholic Edition: to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ

Saint is another word for Christian.

 

[Laurus]

to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord - a saint is someone sanctified in Christ who calls upon the name of the Lord.

here is the RSV Catholic Edition: to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ

>RSV
You could've given me a verse from The Message at this point.

Saint is another word for Christian.

No. Your error is that you believe in sanctification by grace through faith alone, which nobody with a sound mind believed in the first 1500 years of Christendom. If everybody is a saint, are you as holy as Augustine, Aquinas, the Holy Virgin Mary?

 

[Turretin]

>RSV
You could've given me a verse from The Message at this point.

No. Your error is that you believe in sanctification by grace through faith alone, which nobody with a sound mind believed in the first 1500 years of Christendom. If everybody is a saint, are you as holy as Augustine, Aquinas, the Holy Virgin Mary?

I believe in justification by faith alone. Paul uses the word saint for people who call Jesus Lord. Not everybody is a saint, because not everybody calls Jesus Lord. If you want to have a pantheon of special saints, you can do it, but the term saint is used for Christians by Paul.

 

[Laurus]

I believe in justification by faith alone. Paul uses the word saint for people who call Jesus Lord. Not everybody is a saint, because not everybody calls Jesus Lord. If you want to have a pantheon of special saints, you can do it, but the term saint is used for Christians by Paul.

You did not answer my question, which renders your understanding of sanctity dysfunctional. You deny hierarchy, that there are better Christians than you, Christians that are so much better than you, that they do not sin, not even that, perform one miracle after another, glorifying God in ceaseless prayer and meditation, giving alms, listening to confessions, absolving of one's sin. But yes, Turretin, posting on Roosh's pug breeding forum is a paragon of sanctity.

 

[Turretin]

You did not answer my question, which renders your understanding of sanctity dysfunctional. You deny hierarchy, that there are better Christians than you, Christians that are so much better than you, that they do not sin, not even that, perform one miracle after another, glorifying God in ceaseless prayer and meditation, giving alms, listening to confessions, absolving of one's sin. But yes, Turretin, posting on Roosh's pug breeding forum is a paragon of sanctity.

I think, that Guido de Bres, the author of the Belgic Confession and a martyr, is holier than I am. But the term saint is not reserved for the holiest, but is a term for Christians in general.

 

[Laurus]

I think, that Guido de Bres, the author of the Belgic Confession and a martyr, is holier than I am. But the term saint is not reserved for the holiest, but is a term for Christians in general.

There are two different interpretations of history and spiritual hierarchy here. Only one can be right. I recommend you look into Church history.

 

[Turretin]

There are two different interpretations of history and spiritual hierarchy here. Only one can be right. I recommend you look into Church history.

That does not change that Paul uses the term saint for Christians in general, for people who call Jesus Lord.

 

[Laurus]

That does not change that Paul uses the term saint for Christians in general, for people who call Jesus Lord.

Like a broken record.

Matthew 7:21

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Turretin]

Like a broken record.

Matthew 7:21

Are only canonized saints in heaven and everyone else is in hell, because only canonized saints do the will of the Father and no one else?

 

[Solitarius]

I believe in justification by faith alone. Paul uses the word saint for people who call Jesus Lord. Not everybody is a saint, because not everybody calls Jesus Lord. If you want to have a pantheon of special saints, you can do it, but the term saint is used for Christians by Paul.

This is contradicted by the Epistle of S. James: "
What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? [15] And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:


[16] And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? [17] So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. [18] But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. [19] Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" This is why the heresiarch Luther wanted to do away with this Epistle calling it "an epistle of straw". Who is right? S. james the Apostle of Christ or Luther the heresiarch who lived 1500 years afterwards? Protestantism is condemned by the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself:
"[18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world."

[18] "All power": See here the warrant and commission of the apostles and their successors, the bishops and pastors of Christ's church. He received from his Father all power in heaven and in earth: and in virtue of this power, he sends them (even as his Father sent him, St. John 20. 21) to teach and disciple, not one, but all nations; and instruct them in all truths: and that he may assist them effectually in the execution of this commission, he promises to be with them, not for three or four hundred years only, but all days, even to the consummation of the world. How then could the Catholic Church ever go astray; having always with her pastors, as is here promised, Christ himself, who is the way, the truth, and the life. St. John 14.

 

[Laurus]

Are only canonized saints in heaven and everyone else is in hell, because only canonized saints do the will of the Father and no one else?

"Oh no, I have been found out! Now change the topic and pretend I have the upper hand." The post.

 

[newcomer]

to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord - a saint is someone sanctified in Christ who calls upon the name of the Lord.

here is the RSV Catholic Edition: to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ

Saint is another word for Christian.

I am not a native speaker , but it seems to me that called to be a saint and being a saint are two totally different things.

 

[Turretin]

I am not a native speaker , but it seems to me that called to be a saint and being a saint are two totally different things.

called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ - Paul gives the definition in the very same sentence. If you call on the name of our Lord, you are a saint according to Paul. Obviously, you have to mean it in your heart and walk the Christian path, that is what Matthew 7:21 is about.

What Does "Saint" Mean?

Often when one hears the word saint, the first thing that comes to mind is a person who is especially holy or religious. But as it is used in the Bible, the term saint has a different meaning.

www.christianity.com

 

[Hermetic Seal]

This notion that "the New Testament sometimes uses 'saints' in a general sense for all believers, therefore canonized Saints GO AGAINST THE BIBLE!" is just silly. For instance, in the Old Testament, Israel is called "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" (Exodus 19.6), but that doesn't preclude a priesthood from amongst the "kingdom of priests" that are particularly called to the role of priests. It's the same thing here.

"Saint" as a prefix is really just shorthand for "those whom the Church has recognized as being particularly worth of honor and emulation." The debate around this subject is really just playing with semantics and the word-concept fallacy.

 

[infowarrior1]

This notion that "the New Testament sometimes uses 'saints' in a general sense for all believers, therefore canonized Saints GO AGAINST THE BIBLE!" is just silly. For instance, in the Old Testament, Israel is called "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" (Exodus 19.6), but that doesn't preclude a priesthood from amongst the "kingdom of priests" that are particularly called to the role of priests. It's the same thing here.

"Saint" as a prefix is really just shorthand for "those whom the Church has recognized as being particularly worth of honor and emulation." The debate around this subject is really just playing with semantics and the word-concept fallacy.

A Hierarchy of Priesthood. Similar to how there are Officers over the foot-soldiers.

Priests handling the Animal sacrifices cannot be done by everyone.

In a sense since all Israelites can pray to God makes them all priests in a sense.

Protestants do believe however that since Christ fulfilled that role in the sense of being the Sacrifice himself. And interceding on our behalf as the High Priest using his own blood on our behalf.

That such a role is no longer required.