PUA coach Tom Torero committed suicide

Sherman

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
Two interesting side notes that may be of interest to men on this forum:

1) Torero took courses from Professor Dawkins where we learned that life is meaningless,

2) he spent time in an Orthodox monastery.

“I went to a Greek Orthodox monastery in a remote part of northern Greece where a friend was visiting. For a month I even considered becoming a monk. No women, no outside distractions. Just sea and silence. Tempting though it was, I understood it wasn’t for me as the boat that sailed around the monastery peninsula passed beaches of bikini-clad girls sunning themselves.”
- Torero, Tom. DayGame
 

Cynllo

Woodpecker
Other Christian
It would not have been fun to be 41 and facing these kinds of challenges.

Choose wisely.

image-asset.jpeg
 

vstk

Sparrow
Catholic
As an aside, perhaps an older member could reply : Are active members on this forum mostly guys from the old Roosh PUA/fornication community who evolved with him? I used to lurk a little, no account back then but I am really surprised this transformation was even possible.

Suicide most often comes as a result of a combination of struggles. Financial struggle is a big one. But single men with a lonely lifestyle are particularly prone to despair and self destruction in times of adversity.

May his soul rest in peace.
 

loremipsum

Kingfisher
As an aside, perhaps an older member could reply : Are active members on this forum mostly guys from the old Roosh PUA/fornication community who evolved with him? I used to lurk a little, no account back then but I am really surprised this transformation was even possible.

Suicide most often comes as a result of a combination of struggles. Financial struggle is a big one. But single men with a lonely lifestyle are particularly prone to despair and self destruction in times of adversity.

May his soul rest in peace.
Most of the old posters left with anger when Roosh found Jesus and applied the rule of no fornication talk to Rooshvforum.
There are still many classical posters such as The Beast1, Wutang, Samseau, scorpion, infowarrior, budoslavic and 911 who were well respected even back then. These are just from the top of my head, so don't feel unjust if I did not mention you.
 
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griffinmill

Pelican
I personally am increasingly of the opinion that he faked his own death. Just seems like an extreme evolution of his life outside the system philosophy.

I have no evidence for this except that no details have emerged about the death. He just never struck me as a guy who would do this.

I have a burgeoning YouTube account and have posted a video about Tom's alleged suicide as it raises important questions about the nature of cancel culture and journalists who do these kind of hit pieces

But I'm increasingly nervous that we are all wrong and have jumped the gun here. It's entirely possible he isn't even dead. What makes me say that? All we have is internet gossip. That he's dead and that he took his own life are two points totally unproven.

I have been searching the death and funeral notices in Wales for a few weeks now and there has been no notification there about his passing. Nothing. Even on Google, searching his real name reveals nothing.

Nick Krauser has written a nice post about Tom's passing - and seems to be in touch with his family. Also, those commenting on that post seem to agree that suicide was the cause. So unless Krauser is in on this conspiracy himself, it looks LIKELY he committed suicide, but as I said, there is no proof.
 

Wutang

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I was reading the memorial Krauser wrote the other day and the one part that jumped out to me was this:

I have many great memories of my time with Tom. One comes to mind here. We were sitting outside Boutique restaurant on Republic Square in Belgrade in May of 2014. It was a gloriously sunny day and we’d both rattled a hot young woman each the night before. We ordered big beef steaks with peppercorn sauce and potatoes, cold beers, and were now digging into it. Both of us were then living primarily on passive income from our daygame products.


“Mate, this is the life,” he said. “Sun, travel, birds, steak. This is what I always dreamt of.”
“We live in a golden era,” I agreed. “To do this in earlier times, you’d literally have to be a prince, or heir to a large fortune. Even Napoleon didn’t see as much of the world as us.”



It was one of those we’ve done it moments. Tom nodded, raised his glass, and we toasted the euro jaunt lifestyle. Even then we didn’t realise just how many men would come to find their own way of living their dreams overseas.

Back in 2014 this forum had moved into cultural commentary but the main purpose of it was still traveling and collecting flags. The manosphere sites were still running at full steam and as seen from that quote above, the London Daygamers were at their peak. These guys had achieved and were achieving everything they wanted.

A few years later and look at the changes that has happened among all the biggest participants in the scene. I won't rehash it since pretty much every one reading this thread likely has at least a general idea of where each of the big names ended up but it's still quite amazing to me that in less then a decade so many people can go from the peak of their achievements to so many different places whether it be practicing Orthodox Christianity or being at least curious about faith after being dismissive for decades to even suicide. Even when someone reaches the apex of everyone they wanted to achieve, it isn't a stable position. Just another reminder always to seek what is truly eternal rather then to try and freeze the moment of your highest glory and maintain it which is impossible since rust and moth destroys all earthly treasures.
 

canuckj

Woodpecker
Other Christian
As an aside, perhaps an older member could reply : Are active members on this forum mostly guys from the old Roosh PUA/fornication community who evolved with him? I used to lurk a little, no account back then but I am really surprised this transformation was even possible.

Suicide most often comes as a result of a combination of struggles. Financial struggle is a big one. But single men with a lonely lifestyle are particularly prone to despair and self destruction in times of adversity.

May his soul rest in peace.
I would be interested to know as well. Not to judge as we all have our own sin just to see the transformation many have made.
 

canuckj

Woodpecker
Other Christian
Most of the old posters left with anger when Roosh found Jesus and applied the rule of no fornication talk to Rooshvforum.
There are still many classical posters such as The Beast1, Wutang, Samseau, scorpion, infowarrior, budoslavic and 911 who were well respected even back then. These are just from the top of my head, so don't feel unjust if I did not mention you.
Sorry about my last post. I see you answered my question.
 

SaintPiusX

Robin
Trad Catholic
I was reading the memorial Krauser wrote the other day and the one part that jumped out to me was this:



Back in 2014 this forum had moved into cultural commentary but the main purpose of it was still traveling and collecting flags. The manosphere sites were still running at full steam and as seen from that quote above, the London Daygamers were at their peak. These guys had achieved and were achieving everything they wanted.

A few years later and look at the changes that has happened among all the biggest participants in the scene. I won't rehash it since pretty much every one reading this thread likely has at least a general idea of where each of the big names ended up but it's still quite amazing to me that in less then a decade so many people can go from the peak of their achievements to so many different places whether it be practicing Orthodox Christianity or being at least curious about faith after being dismissive for decades to even suicide. Even when someone reaches the apex of everyone they wanted to achieve, it isn't a stable position. Just another reminder always to seek what is truly eternal rather then to try and freeze the moment of your highest glory and maintain it which is impossible since rust and moth destroys all earthly treasures.
He lived a good life, which is more than the vast majority of men can say. He figured out the system and beat it, even temporarily, which is laudable and praiseworthy. Of course, the system will always change, so men need to adapt as well. As others said, he may have faked his death to get the pariahs off his back and may be still killing it under a new name somewhere else in the world. If he did kill himself, then that's sad, but that says more about the expendability of men in modern society than anything else.
 

Tippy

Woodpecker
Other Christian
I was reading the memorial Krauser wrote the other day and the one part that jumped out to me was this:



Back in 2014 this forum had moved into cultural commentary but the main purpose of it was still traveling and collecting flags. The manosphere sites were still running at full steam and as seen from that quote above, the London Daygamers were at their peak. These guys had achieved and were achieving everything they wanted.

A few years later and look at the changes that has happened among all the biggest participants in the scene. I won't rehash it since pretty much every one reading this thread likely has at least a general idea of where each of the big names ended up but it's still quite amazing to me that in less then a decade so many people can go from the peak of their achievements to so many different places whether it be practicing Orthodox Christianity or being at least curious about faith after being dismissive for decades to even suicide. Even when someone reaches the apex of everyone they wanted to achieve, it isn't a stable position. Just another reminder always to seek what is truly eternal rather then to try and freeze the moment of your highest glory and maintain it which is impossible since rust and moth destroys all earthly treasures.

I'm no expert on PUA intelligentsia but what exactly happened?
Roosh - converted to Orthodox Christianity
Krauser - still coaching PUA in Russia and daygaming regularly (though looking for a wife I think)
Mystery - No idea but I'm guessing still coaching day game in USA/Canada

Who are the other big names in game? What are they doing?
 

Parmesan

Kingfisher
Other Christian
Back in 2014 this forum had moved into cultural commentary but the main purpose of it was still traveling and collecting flags. The manosphere sites were still running at full steam and as seen from that quote above, the London Daygamers were at their peak. These guys had achieved and were achieving everything they wanted.

A few years later and look at the changes that has happened among all the biggest participants in the scene. I won't rehash it since pretty much every one reading this thread likely has at least a general idea of where each of the big names ended up but it's still quite amazing to me that in less then a decade so many people can go from the peak of their achievements to so many different places whether it be practicing Orthodox Christianity or being at least curious about faith after being dismissive for decades to even suicide. Even when someone reaches the apex of everyone they wanted to achieve, it isn't a stable position. Just another reminder always to seek what is truly eternal rather then to try and freeze the moment of your highest glory and maintain it which is impossible since rust and moth destroys all earthly treasures.
Something cultural had to have shifted though? In theory there should have been new generations coming into the whole PUA thing, but it's fizzled for the most part. Did it just get over exposed? Social media/smartphone addiction? Cancel culture? The decline in nightclub scenes? It's not like re-discovering Christianity is burgeoning as a mainstream trend, so there is something organic going on. On the rare occasion I do find myself out at the bars, it does feel different and less wild, but that's probably true of every 30+ dude at a bar remembering the glory days.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
Two interesting side notes that may be of interest to men on this forum:

1) Torero took courses from Professor Dawkins where we learned that life is meaningless,

2) he spent time in an Orthodox monastery.

“I went to a Greek Orthodox monastery in a remote part of northern Greece where a friend was visiting. For a month I even considered becoming a monk. No women, no outside distractions. Just sea and silence. Tempting though it was, I understood it wasn’t for me as the boat that sailed around the monastery peninsula passed beaches of bikini-clad girls sunning themselves.”
- Torero, Tom. DayGame
Sounds like Mount Athos.

One does not accidentally find himself in a monastery. I traveled abroad for over 10 years before God and never visited one. This means that God, the lover of mankind, put Tom in that monastery to help him turn away from sin and begin spiritual life, but Satan never gives up, and tempted him with semi-naked girls on a boat, and Tom chose that instead. I wonder how persistently God tried to steer Tom away from his worldly life. God doesn't want to lose a soul, but those souls have to choose Him.
 

Going strong

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Sounds like Mount Athos.

One does not accidentally find himself in a monastery. I traveled abroad for over 10 years before God and never visited one. This means that God, the lover of mankind, put Tom in that monastery to help him turn away from sin and begin spiritual life, but Satan never gives up, and tempted him with semi-naked girls on a boat, and Tom chose that instead. I wonder how persistently God tried to steer Tom away from his worldly life. God doesn't want to lose a soul, but those souls have to choose Him.

From what Tom (RIP) wrote (and it seems to symbolically refer to Ulysses' tempting mermaids), I think he was on the sailing boat (ogling the half-naked girls on the Greek beaches, from his "passing boat"), after what was probably a short visit to a friend at an Orthodox monastery. If he had retained the inclination, and great willpower, to spend a full month at a Christian monastery, thoughts of suicide would probably have gone from his mind?

So, it looks like God might indeed have given a chance at redemption to Tom, through the medium of Tom's friend, who was staying at an Orthodox monastery, but we don't know if Tom did more than entertaining the idea (of religious/spiritual life).

In any case, the (Muslim, apparently?) Newsweek writer who cancelled and destroyed Tom, I can't help but notice that she strictly targets white heterosexual men, showing absolutely no mercy, no empathy, for them. We're not even human beings, for these woke journalists.
 

Wutang

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I'm no expert on PUA intelligentsia but what exactly happened?
Roosh - converted to Orthodox Christianity
Krauser - still coaching PUA in Russia and daygaming regularly (though looking for a wife I think)
Mystery - No idea but I'm guessing still coaching day game in USA/Canada

Who are the other big names in game? What are they doing?

Just off the top of my head:

Victor Pride went hard into Orthodox Christianity. He was baptized as one but now is actively practicing. He seems to have disappear from online.

Krauser is still day gaming but he seems to have been reserving a lot of reservations about what the life style entails. He posted a favorable review of Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis where he expressed surprise that there was more to Christianity then he had been taught from the culture around him.

BodiPUA another London Daygamer has stopped updating his blog.

SquattingCasanova got canceled by the same reporter that got Tom Torero canceled.

Good Looking Loser seems to be inactive these days. I'm guessing he's all in all his kratom business now.

The one guy is seems to be doing pretty much the exact same thing that he was doing during the height of the red pill manosphere is Rollo Tomassi.

The only super major successful "stars" I can think of right now that is at least somehow connected to the PUA/red pill thing would be the Fresh and Fit Guys and Kevin Samuels. And a lot of their success to comes more from doing the type of cultural commentary about gender relations that this forum was already doing back in the early to mid 2010s rather then doing the classic PUA technique stuff that you saw with people like Mystery, David DeAngelo, and such.
 

El Draque

 
Banned
Orthodox
Something cultural had to have shifted though? In theory there should have been new generations coming into the whole PUA thing, but it's fizzled for the most part. Did it just get over exposed? Social media/smartphone addiction? Cancel culture? The decline in nightclub scenes? It's not like re-discovering Christianity is burgeoning as a mainstream trend, so there is something organic going on. On the rare occasion I do find myself out at the bars, it does feel different and less wild, but that's probably true of every 30+ dude at a bar remembering the glory days.

It became obsolete in the modern world of Dating Apps, and Social Media changing the parameters of the social interraction. People stopped going to bars etc to meet the opposite sex, and the days when a man could leverage value from cold approach crashed, when any woman of reasonable level of attractiveness could have an over-abundance of suitors from her smartphone alone.

Back in the day approach anxiety was a literal barrier to success with women for a vast number of men. Going beyond that could yield results, as women were left in relative scarcity. The Dating apps obliterated that almost overnight.

The Daygamers were the fumes of it all, as they played off the novelty of the day-time approach, but even then it was based almost wholly on leveraging value through travelling to exponentially remote places of the world, and playing off ever diminishing White God Game.

I could see how Tom could end up in a dark spot, where the realisation that he'd thrown what could have been a good life away as a teacher, in order to chase ego-gratification, the need of which seems to have been based around childhood wounds of bullying and not feeling enough, and then found that whole scene fizzle out, the fun going, the results falling away, and then at the end his whole business model being trashed, and his character being dragged through the mud by malignant SJWs.

His lifestyle may've been fun for a year or two in the early years, but he'd been at it for over a decade, no roots, constantly moving around, chasing validation etc. Now with all the foundations of it destroyed, he may've felt left with nothing, but a sense of isolation and regret.

On the other hand, perhaps there's validity in the notion that all is not what it seems here, and he's faked it to draw a line under his life, and move on. I find that unlikely, there would be a lot easier ways to do that. He could just disavow his old lifestyle, lie low for a while, then find a gig somewhere as a Ski Instructor or English teacher or whatever.

Who knows, either way, it's a sad tale, and hopefully at very least some may learn from it.
 

tothepoint

 
Banned
Agnostic
RIP if true...

I don't think Tom was making any money on Youtube. He rarely posted actual videos anyway, 90% of his content was in podcast format, just audio monologues and sometimes he had some guests.
He was pushing for a minimalist lifestyle, last I know he was traveling through Europe in a van.

His content was solid. Night game slowly died once smartphones and social media took off. Even before the corona nonsense, most bars and clubs were trash.
Day game was the absolute best way to meet women and he was capitalizing on that. He didn't reinvent the wheel, he just took the Mystery Method and improved on it. This stuff was never going to be mainstream. It's a solo, lone wolf activity for people who have a dark triad personality. I suspect 90% of guys who read about day game don't do it and of the 10% who try it, 90% give up. I spent at least 6 months doing mental masturbation before getting into it.
It's the hardest thing to pull off, there are no friends who can help you, there's no alcohol, no loud music, no hook up atmosphere. You can't blame the venue, the bouncer, the bitchy friend etc for messing up, it's all on you.

As a side note, PUA content is almost gone from Youtube. What you have now is lifestyle "coaches" and other hacks teaching young guys that instead of chasing girls they should work on finances in their 20s. It's the biggest beta shit ever. That and setting up instagram profiles. On top of that you have idiots like Rollo Tomassi making excuses about bitch behavior and trying to explain that women were always like that. That may be true, in the end it doesn't matter, who cares ?
 

Tippy

Woodpecker
Other Christian
It became obsolete in the modern world of Dating Apps, and Social Media changing the parameters of the social interraction. People stopped going to bars etc to meet the opposite sex, and the days when a man could leverage value from cold approach crashed, when any woman of reasonable level of attractiveness could have an over-abundance of suitors from her smartphone alone.

Back in the day approach anxiety was a literal barrier to success with women for a vast number of men. Going beyond that could yield results, as women were left in relative scarcity. The Dating apps obliterated that almost overnight.

The Daygamers were the fumes of it all, as they played off the novelty of the day-time approach, but even then it was based almost wholly on leveraging value through travelling to exponentially remote places of the world, and playing off ever diminishing White God Game.

I could see how Tom could end up in a dark spot, where the realisation that he'd thrown what could have been a good life away as a teacher, in order to chase ego-gratification, the need of which seems to have been based around childhood wounds of bullying and not feeling enough, and then found that whole scene fizzle out, the fun going, the results falling away, and then at the end his whole business model being trashed, and his character being dragged through the mud by malignant SJWs.

His lifestyle may've been fun for a year or two in the early years, but he'd been at it for over a decade, no roots, constantly moving around, chasing validation etc. Now with all the foundations of it destroyed, he may've felt left with nothing, but a sense of isolation and regret.

On the other hand, perhaps there's validity in the notion that all is not what it seems here, and he's faked it to draw a line under his life, and move on. I find that unlikely, there would be a lot easier ways to do that. He could just disavow his old lifestyle, lie low for a while, then find a gig somewhere as a Ski Instructor or English teacher or whatever.

Who knows, either way, it's a sad tale, and hopefully at very least some may learn from it.
I don't know if Tom would have been much better as a teacher vs travelling the world and packing more life into 41 years than many experience in several lifetimes.

Arguably this 'life' is mere sensation overload of travel, sex and random thrill seeking but I'm not convinced the alternative for him would have been much better.

The thing is, in his last few years he had adopted this van life which I think was a lifelong dream of his. It was his latest phase though troublingly, this involved him mostly being completely alone in a van (with his only social interactions being attempts to get sex with strangers). I imagine this must have caused a lot of damage to his mental health as he had no support network during that time. From what I read, he pretty much stopped interacting with anyone from the PUA community and isolated himself (I am guessing partly out of pride). This is quite a contrast to his earlier life as a teacher and PUA mentor where he was constantly in some sort of community.

I heard after this van phase he was a ski instructor, so perhaps he reached a low point with that and was on the way out of it. I have no details about what this part of his life involved or how deep into it he was.

Last interview he did (in 2021) he sounded like a grizzled outcast but still had a lot of humour and wisdom. I remember him saying he was 'enjoying the decline' though he was also drinking alone in his van throughout this interview. He had adopted a philosophy of nihilism and was anti self-help and very much skeptical of guys getting into religion later in life. I don't really know where he would go next with nothing beyond pleasure seeking to aspire towards. Where do you go? To another country? After another hot girl? Sky diving...again?

I just can't imagine this guy killing himself yet the alternative of faking his death is equally tough to believe. I'd like to hear more details or some sort of proof until I am convinced he is dead.
 

Tippy

Woodpecker
Other Christian
Just off the top of my head:

Victor Pride went hard into Orthodox Christianity. He was baptized as one but now is actively practicing. He seems to have disappear from online.

Krauser is still day gaming but he seems to have been reserving a lot of reservations about what the life style entails. He posted a favorable review of Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis where he expressed surprise that there was more to Christianity then he had been taught from the culture around him.

BodiPUA another London Daygamer has stopped updating his blog.

SquattingCasanova got canceled by the same reporter that got Tom Torero canceled.

Good Looking Loser seems to be inactive these days. I'm guessing he's all in all his kratom business now.

The one guy is seems to be doing pretty much the exact same thing that he was doing during the height of the red pill manosphere is Rollo Tomassi.

The only super major successful "stars" I can think of right now that is at least somehow connected to the PUA/red pill thing would be the Fresh and Fit Guys and Kevin Samuels. And a lot of their success to comes more from doing the type of cultural commentary about gender relations that this forum was already doing back in the early to mid 2010s rather then doing the classic PUA technique stuff that you saw with people like Mystery, David DeAngelo, and such.
No idea who many of these are. Was 'SquattingCasanova' really a big PUA? Never heard of this 'good looking loser' either. I guess the names got a lot worse over the years...

Bodi was obsessed with giving up game throughout his PUA years even. Last I heard, he was getting married and living in Poland.

From the UK, you have James Tusk continuing the whole London Daygame Stuff. He is a bit different since he is a good looking man.

I guess the thing with Tom is he proved looks really aren't everything if you can develop your personality and confidence.
 
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