PUA coach Tom Torero committed suicide

El Draque

 
Banned
Orthodox
I guess the thing with Tom is he proved looks really aren't everything if you can develop your personality and confidence.


Not that convinced he did tbh. He more just found a way where he could leverage his way towards sleeping with more attractive women than his looks would suggest. EG go to the most remote town in FSU and running game specifically built to attract ONS, getting every fume of leverage he could to achieve this. There's even stuff he came up with where he'd test for girls from broken homes, and how that ups the possibilty of a 'result'. It's grim stuff.

Did he get any LTR's of value from all this? I highly doubt it, as he seemed to be so obsessed with being the 'bad boy'. It's sad, he could have landed himself a decent enough looking girl, found God, and worked on his life and had kids, raised a family etc. He was clearly highly intelligent, could've written books, worked on a more normie friendly frame. Could've written a biography of sort, from a more self-critical aspect, having disavowed Game, who knows.

Instead he ended up seemingly stuck on endless ego gratification loop, living in a van (no one can persuade me this is any kind of healthy lifestyle, especially if it's not in at least semi permanent spots), in what seems like an incredibly lonely & isolating existence.

Throw covid and all that's come with it in the mix, and it seems his lifestyle was all but becoming impossible to maintain. Then he gets attacked by these SJWs psychos, who get his books (and passive income) pulled, and what's he left with? Sitting in a van, drinking alone.

Sad stuff.
 

Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
It is interesting to me that (and I'm around this guy's age) the real age to have amazing prospects internationally (declining at home) and capitalize on them was someone being born in the early but mostly mid 1970s. I say this because you still had a shot with a decent culture here in the USA (I can't speak for the UK) depending on what your life trajectory was, but the clock was ticking. If you were a professional like me, schooling took so long (and loans) that I would have needed to go back in time at least 5 and closer to 10 years. If you could travel and meet from 2000-2010, you were pretty money (especially if you had money). Or even 2010-13. And I'm not talking about PUA, I'm actually talking legit relationships LTR.

I personally didn't get to visit international locations until 2016, and by that time, many of the historically fun and great cities were already ruined by greater travel and smartphones or the combination of all that tech and easy travel, backpacking, selfies - whatever you call that. Medellin is a classic example of this, it was great pretty much (others have confirmed this) until 2013, then became a ridiculous travel "destination."
 

Tippy

Woodpecker
Other Christian
Not that convinced he did tbh. He more just found a way where he could leverage his way towards sleeping with more attractive women than his looks would suggest. EG go to the most remote town in FSU and running game specifically built to attract ONS, getting every fume of leverage he could to achieve this. There's even stuff he came up with where he'd test for girls from broken homes, and how that ups the possibilty of a 'result'. It's grim stuff.
From his books, he appeared to be quite successful with women in many countries and not just small towns. He's probably slept with hundreds of attractive women through his seduction skills and was probably the best gamer in the world at the peak of his power, for whatever that's worth.

He made some little docs about his van adventures and seemed to be enjoying life. It just felt to me a bit forced. Like someone telling you how amazing their holiday was by sharing stories of only good moments and carefully editing out the lonely depressing nights sat alone in air bnb etc...
 

griffinmill

Pelican
Daygame and pick-up had their day. From around 2006 until 2017 could be considered the golden years of the industry, but it was always going to be a victim of the law of diminishing returns for those who taught it and those who generally used it as a means for meeting women.

As we have seen, dating apps had a tremendously negative effect on society - not least dating. It offered up to women a buffet of chads, all the while the general culture changed. Once the media got wind of daygame it was game over. These shy men circumventing their social handicaps had no right to go above their pay-grade and "manipulate" women into sexual encounters. The media were going to put a stop to it. We saw a hint of it back when Julian Blanc was nearly cancelled about five years back, but even then it was a different era as Julian and RSD were still able to work and YouTube did not remove their accounts.

Now these journalist activists go for total ruination. Danya' Hajjaji who wrote the Torero hit piece even tried to get his WhatsApp account taken away, in addition to everything else!

For me I never really did much daygame because the apps used to provide such a steady stream of available women. Not anymore, of course. Not only are the apps nothing like they once were, making it an impossible grind, but as you get older your priorities change.

Tom was probably experiencing what a lot of single men experience as they reach a certain age. Pick-up and dating become exhausting. The fun is just not there anymore, and you've come to the realisation that you've driven down into a dead-end and where do you go from here?

Interestingly, after doing some digging, Tom's mother and sister are very religious and faith is a huge part of their lives. I think they're Catholics. They are very involved in community work. I wonder how this all has effected them, particularly the Newsweek hit-piece.
 

OrthoSerb

Robin
Orthodox
Sounds like Mount Athos.

One does not accidentally find himself in a monastery. I traveled abroad for over 10 years before God and never visited one. This means that God, the lover of mankind, put Tom in that monastery to help him turn away from sin and begin spiritual life, but Satan never gives up, and tempted him with semi-naked girls on a boat, and Tom chose that instead. I wonder how persistently God tried to steer Tom away from his worldly life. God doesn't want to lose a soul, but those souls have to choose Him.
Indeed, it almost certainly was Mount Athos that he visited, there is no other peninsula with monasteries in Northern Greece. I'm not sure how he would have seen semi-naked girls, or any girls for that matter, from the boat that takes you into Mount Athos as women are barred from the peninsula and the neighbouring peninsulas (which are used by tourists) are not close enough to be able to see anything from the boat. I suspect he subsequently took a seperate tour boat around one of the other two neighbouring peninsulas. It's not that important of a point, it doesn't really change anything. But just in case people thought passing beaches of semi-naked women was a standard thing for anyone entering the Holy Mountain.

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El Draque

 
Banned
Orthodox
From his books, he appeared to be quite successful with women in many countries and not just small towns. He's probably slept with hundreds of attractive women through his seduction skills and was probably the best gamer in the world at the peak of his power, for whatever that's worth.

He made some little docs about his van adventures and seemed to be enjoying life. It just felt to me a bit forced. Like someone telling you how amazing their holiday was by sharing stories of only good moments and carefully editing out the lonely depressing nights sat alone in air bnb etc...

He paid models for some of his 'in-fields'. There was one faked 'street kiss close', which the model confessed being paid for, about 5 years back, as i recall

His books are his product. Of course he's going to project an aura of success. It's his brand, his earning potential.

I dont doubt he did alright in the early to mid 2010's, but beyond that i very much doubt it. Certainly in the latter years, or with women of any true value.

Pretty sure those guys whole business model at that point was 'teaching game' to mostly Indian and Arabic guys from wealthy families.

Fact is there's a major distinction on being good on getting women into bed, under all manner of subtle coercions and corralling, as these guys did, and being good with women, in order to form bonds, provide a home, settle down and build a future with them.

I fail to believe any of them are re the latter. Essentially they led the male Thot-Life, most of them being driven from a deep rooted position of insecurity.

I hope this doesn't seem disrespectful, i'm sure he was a decent enough bloke, he just lost his way, and likely, at least on some level, wanted out of the lifestyle he'd created, before he took the final way out.

If he has faked it all, and sitting somewhere sipping a beer perusing these sites, he'd no doubt read all that and think 'piss off you sanctimonius twat'. I hope that's the case, but remain unconvinced.
 

anti-science

Sparrow
Gnostic or New Age
No idea who many of these are. Was 'SquattingCasanova' really a big PUA? Never heard of this 'good looking loser' either. I guess the names got a lot worse over the years...

Bodi was obsessed with giving up game throughout his PUA years even. Last I heard, he was getting married and living in Poland.

From the UK, you have James Tusk continuing the whole London Daygame Stuff. He is a bit different since he is a good looking man.

I guess the thing with Tom is he proved looks really aren't everything if you can develop your personality and confidence.

Chris aka Good looking loser used to run similar cold approach but also promoted body enhancement like steroids, hair loss prevention and even genital pumping. He spawned another big youtuber 'moreplatesmoredates' who talks about the same exact things just masquerading more as a science guy. Now they have a supplement company and Chris is in LTR or married. Last podcast I heard from him he was visibly older and skinny but also had that lifeless vibe like a complete loss of excitement like his old energy was all dried up.

The new generation of zoomers just have a much different reality, they are more black-pilled and see that today's girls already pre-screen you based on looks, money and status. It really is just swiping with very little 'game' required. So their main focus is their instagram, gym and crypto gains. They could care less about learning any techniques to persuade girls because the truth is if you have any of the above mentioned then you will 'pull'.
 

tothepoint

 
Banned
Agnostic
Based on the latest statistics the zoomers are not "pulling" anything. Half are still virgins in their 20s so unless they will suddenly turn into Casanovas in their 30s with those gym and crypto gains or join the ranks of the Church, they will end up in a different reality alright, a virtual reality.
It's one thing to be black pill in your 40s once you've been through some shit but at 20 that's just sad.
 

Parmesan

Kingfisher
Other Christian
I spent my 20s and half of my 30s pleasure chasing. I never owned a home, I never really owned furniture. I dodged responsibility and never built anything or acquired useful skills. It didn’t happen instantly, but over a fairly short period of time it hit me like a sack of bricks: I am mid 30s and have nothing to show for it. It’s frankly a pathetic life for a man his age to be living out of a van and still dicking around like he is on a gap year, and he probably realized that. Realizing you took the wrong path in life is a brutal pill to swallow, and I’m still taking damage inventory myself. Maybe dealing with happy families as a ski instructor made him realize what he was missing.
 
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anti-science

Sparrow
Gnostic or New Age
Based on the latest statistics the zoomers are not "pulling" anything. Half are still virgins in their 20s so unless they will suddenly turn into Casanovas in their 30s with those gym and crypto gains or join the ranks of the Church, they will end up in a different reality alright, a virtual reality.
It's one thing to be black pill in your 40s once you've been through some shit but at 20 that's just sad.

That's just the result of top say 20% of males getting most of the females which is much more pronounced than a decade ago. I disagree with the black pill view entirely but I also don't see any value in gaming women. The latter is really a dopamine hit like a drug addiction which keeps you in a cycle of chasing for more until you realize you have nothing else in life. Also, it is not like the previous generations were any better, between millenials and boomers it's hard to say which is worse. Every step away from God and family leads to broken miserable men and women.
 

magaman

Kingfisher
Orthodox Inquirer
I spent my 20s and half of my 30s pleasure chasing. I never owned a home, I never really owned furniture. I dodged responsibility and never built anything or acquired useful skills. It didn’t happen instantly, but over a fairly short period of time it hit me like a sack of bricks: I am mid 30s and have nothing to show for it. It’s frankly a pathetic life for a man his age to be living out of a van and still dicking around like he is on a gap year, and he probably realized that. Realizing you took the wrong path in life is a brutal pill to swallow, and I’m still taking damage inventory myself. Maybe dealing with happy families as a ski instructor made him realize what he was missing.
I’m 28 and I can relate to what you are saying, sadly enough. Acquiring skills can be costly and for me, it seems I’m either not good at the skills I did try to learn or there are easier jobs that pay more and don’t require them. I messed up in that regard and have been in and out of debt as a result. I’m scared that I’ll end up too in my mid 30s or 41 years old and not have much or anything to show for it. A couple years back I had a pretty decent warehouse job that I was content enough with and was stable but I tried to keep up with my girlfriend by leaving that job, trying to learn skills at school, travel with her and have temporary jobs on the road with her but none of it has really worked out for me. The experiment failed and now I’m out a lot of money again. On top of that, it’s hard to come up with and stick to any sort of plan when everything is always up in the air and who knows where I might be in a month or two. My plan now is to return home to my family and have stability in my life again, even if I have to let this girl go as a result. It’s better to admit when a flop is a flop and learn from there than to risk becoming like the PUA that this thread is about..
 

ph80

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
Daygame and pick-up had their day. From around 2006 until 2017 could be considered the golden years of the industry, but it was always going to be a victim of the law of diminishing returns for those who taught it and those who generally used it as a means for meeting women.

As we have seen, dating apps had a tremendously negative effect on society - not least dating. It offered up to women a buffet of chads, all the while the general culture changed. Once the media got wind of daygame it was game over. These shy men circumventing their social handicaps had no right to go above their pay-grade and "manipulate" women into sexual encounters. The media were going to put a stop to it. We saw a hint of it back when Julian Blanc was nearly cancelled about five years back, but even then it was a different era as Julian and RSD were still able to work and YouTube did not remove their accounts.

Now these journalist activists go for total ruination. Danya' Hajjaji who wrote the Torero hit piece even tried to get his WhatsApp account taken away, in addition to everything else!

For me I never really did much daygame because the apps used to provide such a steady stream of available women. Not anymore, of course. Not only are the apps nothing like they once were, making it an impossible grind, but as you get older your priorities change.

Tom was probably experiencing what a lot of single men experience as they reach a certain age. Pick-up and dating become exhausting. The fun is just not there anymore, and you've come to the realisation that you've driven down into a dead-end and where do you go from here?

Interestingly, after doing some digging, Tom's mother and sister are very religious and faith is a huge part of their lives. I think they're Catholics. They are very involved in community work. I wonder how this all has effected them, particularly the Newsweek hit-piece.

I don't think the media was nearly as upset about low-value men going above their paygrade to seduce women, but by the legions of "PUA Coaches" actually earning a living and profiting off of these men.

If this was literally about just teaching "pickup" and social skills online completely pro bono, I don't think nearly as many SJWs / media members would have targeted the pickup culture / industry. The fact that so many men were not only earning a living, but becoming semi-wealthy with nothing but "teaching game" was kind of the straw that broke the camels' back.

Society does not like men who succeed independently of the system. A man who "escapes" the matrix needs to be punished. And for a while, being a pickup guru was a really fun and profitable way to "escape the matrix". But now that escape route is boarded up, probably for good. Anyone who earned a living as a "pickup guru" is going to have to figure out a way to make money somehow else, as Roosh, Torero, Owen Cook, and a lot of other guys are now learning.
 

Trudarknez

Pigeon
Non-Christian
Just off the top of my head:

Victor Pride went hard into Orthodox Christianity. He was baptized as one but now is actively practicing. He seems to have disappear from online.

Krauser is still day gaming but he seems to have been reserving a lot of reservations about what the life style entails. He posted a favorable review of Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis where he expressed surprise that there was more to Christianity then he had been taught from the culture around him.

BodiPUA another London Daygamer has stopped updating his blog.

SquattingCasanova got canceled by the same reporter that got Tom Torero canceled.

Good Looking Loser seems to be inactive these days. I'm guessing he's all in all his kratom business now.

The one guy is seems to be doing pretty much the exact same thing that he was doing during the height of the red pill manosphere is Rollo Tomassi.

The only super major successful "stars" I can think of right now that is at least somehow connected to the PUA/red pill thing would be the Fresh and Fit Guys and Kevin Samuels. And a lot of their success to comes more from doing the type of cultural commentary about gender relations that this forum was already doing back in the early to mid 2010s rather then doing the classic PUA technique stuff that you saw with people like Mystery, David DeAngelo, and such.

Yea Victor Pride completely disappeared. I think he crashed from the anabolic steroids and drugs (adderall) he was using. That was his wake up call I think. Perhaps this is why he got religious.

Good Looking Loser was huge for a while and he got me into daygaming. I liked his style back then. Straight forward, not too much technique and just go for it. Probably worked for me because I looked OK I just did not have the balls to walk up to a girl back then.

The problem with daygame and banging randoms is that if it does not lead to anything and it is just a notch count then eventually it will lead to nothing as you will not have children or anything. So it is a hit like a drug.

On the other hand I think game by itself is still a good way to find a woman. I know some dont agree with that here but I had most potential girlfriends when I was daygaming and supplementing with Tinder. Yes not all women were great but I definitely met some good women through that.

As for Tom I recognise his name and knew he was a big PUA guy. May he rest in peace.
 

Trudarknez

Pigeon
Non-Christian
It could be that this was his end decision. Maybe he knew this was going to happen and he could not live differently. He could not let go of this lifestyle because it was all he had.

I remember when I was early 20s I thought I would eventually commit suicide anyways as I had nothing to live for. These thoughts by itself gave me peace. That I would just quit.

There are many people like this in the world I think. Especially men. I still think about it sometimes: if I am completely alone by a certain age I will just kill myself.

That does not mean alone in the sense of without a woman. It means if I am completely alone and isolated. Which is a possibility as we do not live in communities or tribes anymore. A lot of people are alone.

I think a lot of men think practical in that sense. For them in the mind it is the best choice. I am not promoting any of this. I hope you understand.
 

OrthoMexicano

 
Banned
Orthodox Inquirer
It could be that this was his end decision. Maybe he knew this was going to happen and he could not live differently. He could not let go of this lifestyle because it was all he had.

I remember when I was early 20s I thought I would eventually commit suicide anyways as I had nothing to live for. These thoughts by itself gave me peace. That I would just quit.

There are many people like this in the world I think. Especially men. I still think about it sometimes: if I am completely alone by a certain age I will just kill myself.

That does not mean alone in the sense of without a woman. It means if I am completely alone and isolated. Which is a possibility as we do not live in communities or tribes anymore. A lot of people are alone.

I think a lot of men think practical in that sense. For them in the mind it is the best choice. I am not promoting any of this. I hope you understand.

That peace complete fake from Satan. Suicide you can never repent. I suggest everyone with thought view Abbott Tryphon here

 

fireshark

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
I don't think the media was nearly as upset about low-value men going above their paygrade to seduce women, but by the legions of "PUA Coaches" actually earning a living and profiting off of these men.

If this was literally about just teaching "pickup" and social skills online completely pro bono, I don't think nearly as many SJWs / media members would have targeted the pickup culture / industry. The fact that so many men were not only earning a living, but becoming semi-wealthy with nothing but "teaching game" was kind of the straw that broke the camels' back.

Society does not like men who succeed independently of the system. A man who "escapes" the matrix needs to be punished. And for a while, being a pickup guru was a really fun and profitable way to "escape the matrix". But now that escape route is boarded up, probably for good. Anyone who earned a living as a "pickup guru" is going to have to figure out a way to make money somehow else, as Roosh, Torero, Owen Cook, and a lot of other guys are now learning.

Surely that's all part of it, but the real "sin" in the eyes of the beast system is the promotion and development of masculinity and heterosexuality. As bad as fornication and a promiscuous pleasure-seeking lifestyle is (and it is bad for the soul and sinful) there's no doubt that it turns low-confidence, noodly-armed beta men on to the fact that women are attracted to masculine features and confident / dominant (but still occasionally vulnerable) personality and that they need to develop themselves in a masculine way in order to maximize their potential to find any kind of mate, short-term or long-term. The upside of that is that IF a man realizes that chasing fornication is an empty pursuit, he has still developed many of the skills needed to attract a woman in order to make her his wife.

This is exactly what happened to me, though my "daygame" phase was pretty short, it broke me out of my shell more than anything had before and made my life much, much easier when it came to dealing with women. It also gave me confidence to tell women "no" and to screen them for quality, rather than the other way around, something that hadn't ever entered into my blue-pilled little brain.

By the grace of God, I grew disillusioned with PUA lifestyles fairly quickly, and always suspected that most of these famous guys were rather desperate and unstable and nowhere near as happy as they seemed to be. Even so, I credit people like Torero for helping me to wake up from my "Disney blue-pilled fantasy land." When a quality woman came my way, the one that is now my wife, I had all the experience and confidence necessary to attract and seduce her.
 

Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Interestingly, after doing some digging, Tom's mother and sister are very religious and faith is a huge part of their lives. I think they're Catholics. They are very involved in community work. I wonder how this all has effected them, particularly the Newsweek hit-piece.
Why is it so hard for Catholics even to get paired up? Are they SJWized from the institutions of the church? Are they scandalized by the church? Most are guilted, I have seen, so do they just nominally believe and aren't taught much? They have tons of events and a high number of at least cultural catholics - schools, this, that, you never stop hearing "jesuit" this and "jesuit" that from people who barely believe. For an orthodox person, this seems to be a weird positive that hasn't turned out to be one, one I can't even imagine.
 

Wutang

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Back in college I was sitting in the classroom and was listening to two girls chat before the lecture started. They were both Catholics and active in the Catholic groups on campus. They were complaining about the awkwardness of a lot of the guys there and I remember one girl specifically saying along the lines of "Don't these guys realize it's not a sin to chat up someone of the opposite sex?"

That said, I know plenty of nominal Catholic couples. They basically just operate as a secular couple only they had to have their wedding in the church and they have to get their kids baptized and confirmed just because it's something you do when you are a Irish/Polish/Italian Catholic.
 
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