Puerto Rico votes for statehood

As a hardworking patriotic American I resent these fuckers thinking they can just go and reduce the number of divisors of states by half. Up until this point I was proud to live in a country with a number of states divisible by 2, 5, 10 and 25. Those are all nice pleasant American numbers, closely tied to base 10 and only half are prime.

What do we get with 51 states? 3 and 17. Are you fucking kidding me? Those are both prime as shit, and viscerally disgusting. 17 is a terrible number.

Now if we add enough states to get up to 64, that's a different story. A perfect square and power of 2 would really make me hard.
 

Kabal

Pelican
Gold Member
BortimusPrime said:
As a hardworking patriotic American I resent these fuckers thinking they can just go and reduce the number of divisors of states by half. Up until this point I was proud to live in a country with a number of states divisible by 2, 5, 10 and 25. Those are all nice pleasant American numbers, closely tied to base 10 and only half are prime.

What do we get with 51 states? 3 and 17. Are you fucking kidding me? Those are both prime as shit, and viscerally disgusting. 17 is a terrible number.

Now if we add enough states to get up to 64, that's a different story. A perfect square and power of 2 would really make me hard.

U fuckin w0t, m8?

10 reduces to 2x5 and 25 to 5x5 anyway.

I'd rather drop California and make 7 the only non-trivial factor.
 

Chavo

 
Banned
britchard said:
Isn't this like the fat un-athletic kid begging the American football coach to let him be on the team?


No. It just makes sense to make them a state. It's a US "territory" anyway with a population higher than some states in the Union. If you're going to make Hawaii and Alaska a state why not Puerto Rico considering that it's actually closer to the Continental U.S? Puerto Rican people already serve in the armed forces and are U.S. citizens and travel freely.

They should have been a state a long time ago.
 

Duke Castile

Crow
Gold Member
Chavo

None of those things you stated are legitimate reasons for Americans to be saddled with Puerto Rico's fucking problems.

Their people being the source of those problems.

It's "closer"?

That's a reason? Don't make me laugh.

Their citizens can serve in the Armed Forces? So what? Non citizens can also. That's also a ridiculous "reason".

They have a large population so they should be made a state?

I've seen some of your other posts today and you aren't earning yourself any respect with these kinds of comments.
 
PR has special tax status when it comes to federal taxes. They pay into social security and Medicare, but do not pay federal income tax. I assume this would change if they became a state...I'm surprised anyone would want to vote for that.
 
T and A Man said:
How you going to fit 51 stars on the flag?

Not to be a cunt T & A Man, but your question exhibits exactly what Australia doesn't get about the United States of America.

A: That's an American problem. Photoshop works.
 

Jean Valjean

 
Banned
T and A Man said:
How you going to fit 51 stars on the flag?

3 rows of 9 = 27
3 rows of 8 = 24

Main-qimg-ad5f330f142212a8881bd9146838a31e.png
 

Horus

Ostrich
Catholic
Gold Member
Surely for the US to grant statehood to a territory, there must be some benefit to the US. So.... what's in it for USA?
 

DannyAlberta

Kingfisher
Gold Member
frozen-ace said:
PR has special tax status when it comes to federal taxes. They pay into social security and Medicare, but do not pay federal income tax. I assume this would change if they became a state...I'm surprised anyone would want to vote for that.

Having looked into this in depth, I think I can give you an answer. The reality is that most of PR's inhabitants would not be paying Federal income taxes if they joined as a state.

The Island has only 40% labour participation rate. That is not a typo. 3/5 people are not working in PR. Of those who do work, some will no doubt be below the Federal income threshold.

Hence you have a perverse incentive where more than 60% of the population can foist Federal income taxes on the actual working people in PR by voting to join as a state.

Another shocking statistic is that of a civilian labour force of around 1 million, over a quarter (over 250,000) work for either the US Federal or PR Territorial Government. Government is the largest employer in PR by a wide margin.

Attempts to collect higher local taxes have been entirely ineffective.

The island has been bleeding young people for years. They are recognized as US citizens and therefore have mobility rights under the US Constitution. I'd move the hell out of there if I had the opportunity to as well.

Congress would be stark raving mad to allow PR in as a State. The first thing PR would do is bring proceedings as an insolvent State under the US Bankruptcy Code. That is a completely perverse reason for wanting to join a country. Can't they come up with something better than the need to shed debt?

The political leanings of the Island's population, which include around 2 million plus of people in voting age, would have significant effects on the House, Senate and the electoral college. Not to beat up on Hispanics, it is simply a fact that Americans of Hispanic descent vote overwhelmingly in favour of big government and Democrats (ever notice that when Democrats don't win an election they want to: 1) change all the rules; and 2) attack the legitimacy of the victors?).

I'd advocate all my Southern neighbours to write their Congress Rep. and Senators to urge them not to open this trap door.

I'm just a Canadian with an outside opinion, of course, but that may make me a tad more objective.
 
Before one judges me as a PR apologist, I want to first state unequivocally that I whole heartedly agree with the points laid out by Fisto and the article mentioned by Tokyo Joe.

Danny Alberta in particular laid out some very relevant facts about Puerto Rico.

Also, I am in strong favor of independence for Puerto Rico, executed responsibly and amicably, while retaining strong ties to USA.

That being said, this "fuck them" attitude is rather ignorant. Puerto Rico and the USA did not magically appear in this situation yesterday - Surprise surprise. It takes two to tango. Some history and context is in order:

1. Puerto Rico never, at any point, voluntarily joined the United States of America. There is little to no intrinsic national and cultural heritage to the US.

2. Puerto Rico would have GLADLY gotten independence had they been able to do so, right up until the 1950s. Let me say that again: most Puerto Ricans wanted to leave the USA, but the USA would not let them. So frankly now that sentiment has reversed, this "kick em out!" rhetoric is rather hallow and utterly meaningless.

3. In response to a growing nationalist movement, which culminated in an armed March on Congress and an the attempted assasination of Eisenhower, the USA's response was to severely and brutally suppress the Puerto Rican national movement, and placate the Puerto Ricans by dumping massive amounts of welfare on the Island (in addition to testing Agent Orange on the island, but that's a story for another day...). This created a ridiculous welfare state that exists today. The USA was scared shitless of another Cuba emerging, and did not let Puerto Rico become more independant and basically bribed the people into submission. Think of the mindset this cultivates over 3 generations now. Related...

4. Since it's existence, Puerto Rico has been crushed by bullshit federal regulation designed to protect American business interests. The Jones act requires any vessel inbound or outbound from Puerto Rico to stop on a mainland port first. That immediately makes foreign imports to Puerto Rico more expensive, as well as kills a huge source of revenue from transit cargo ships. This alone would have a huge positive impact on PRs economy. Why does it still exist? Bullshit Business lobbyists are preventing it from doing so. Some estimates are that PR loses BILLIONS because of this.
Another quick example is sugar. Puerto Rico used to be a mega sugar producer. Now they make hardly any. Why? Sugar subsidies to mainland farmers. Aside from the jobs lost, the industrial technical knowledge, workmanship, and work culture associated with this labor intensive industry is gone.
Finally on this point, and this is something that all RVF should agree with, congress MANDATED Puerto Rico raise it's minimum wage to the federal level. Puerto Rico never had an economy as robust or rich as the mainland, so now the minimum wage being too high just killed a lot of jobs, or simply grew the informal economy. Puerto Rico never wanted any of this.

Before we talk about how "screwed up" Puerto Rico/Puerto Ricans are, let's take an honest look at what is heavily contributing to it: Never even having a fighting chance.

One could argue that the USA made up for it by giving welfare, benefits etc... but that only created the dependency mindset you see today.

5. Relative to Latin and Central America, Puerto Rico has one of the highest per capita GDPs, even if you remove federal/state employment. Not saying it's some economic paradise, but it's certainly got potential.

6. The admittedly over-funded University system is probably one of the best in Latin/Central America, and even competitive with USA universities. USA recruiters are now flocking into PR to scoop up teachers, doctors etc... since they know they can higher them cheap. This only drains the PR talent and tax base and lowers wages in the US. Lose Lose.

7. The Puerto Rican economy is bad, for sure, but those stats do not tell the full story. There is a very large informal economy that exists, and while it's not accounted for, people still do things and work in PR, they just don't give their slice to the Man, since they know the gov is corrupt. Puerto Ricans (in general) are absolute suckers for materialistic Bullshit they see in Malls and Walmart. It's disgusting and sad, but my point is that these places in Puerto Rico are packed and doing record profit, so the money must be coming from somewhere.

7. Puerto Rico still has a strong, patriarchal and traditional culture (Abortion is illegal and so is gay marriage in PR). There is "poverty" in the statistical sense, but the standard of living for people is really not so bad, since family structure and community still exists and people take care of each other. It's sad to see fast food chains becoming so popular there, but in the rural areas people seem incredibly fit and simply don't age.

- Alright I'm kind of droning on at this point, but hopefully this serves to slightly educate people that this awful situation is at least substantially the making of the US. Again, I am NOT excusing Puerto Rican poor decision making, nor am I out to vicitimize them. There are real and easy things that the USA could do to re-invigorate the Puerto Rican economy that would bring Puerto Ricans back to Puerto Rico and help them get out of debt. I suspect that won't happen, because at this point corporations are LOVING all the new cheap "American" labor that Puerto Rico provides.

Puerto Rico is a great place worth looking into for relocation, despite the doomsday news, it's one of the nicest places I've ever been to. Particularly if you are interested in developing agriculture, there is tremendous opportunity there.

PS: @BostonBMW you are incorrect about the PR Flag. It's a historically Spanish derived flag. If you look at the flags of Puerto Rico, Cuba, and Catalonia, they all have the same design.

*** FIN ***
 

ElFlaco

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I know Puerto Rico pretty well. A lot of resentful people expecting handouts in life. The less the US has to do with this island, the better.

Robert High Hawk said:
7. Puerto Rico still has a strong, patriarchal and traditional culture

Puerto Rico is a culture of dependency. Nothing admirable about it. The place has little in common with American values.

Curious fact: Puerto Rico has its own Olympic team. How convenient.
 
ElFlaco said:
I know Puerto Rico pretty well. A lot of resentful people expecting handouts in life. The less the US has to do with this island, the better.

Robert High Hawk said:
7. Puerto Rico still has a strong, patriarchal and traditional culture

Puerto Rico is a culture of dependency. Nothing admirable about it. The place has little in common with American values.

Curious fact: Puerto Rico has its own Olympic team. How convenient.

Aside from he said she said arguments, where we simply disagree on your opinion on how the people are, do you have anything substantive to say on the other points concerning the history and context of the current situation? How about some sort of practical solution? How would you actually get the US to have less to do with PR? Realistically speaking of course. If you were just venting I guess that's fine too.

And yes PR does have it's own Olympic team. So did Hong Kong under the British and now under China. All territories do. What is your point?

EDIT: one of the main points of my post was exactly that Puerto Rico different values than USA, so you're preaching to the choir, except that I argue that Puerto Rico, the real Puerto Rico (not NewYoricans) have a strong traditional and patriarchal culture.
 

CaptainS

Hummingbird
Horus said:
Surely for the US to grant statehood to a territory, there must be some benefit to the US. So.... what's in it for USA?

Nothing. But the democrats get another 3 million voters, a congressman and 2 senators.
 

TheOllam

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Captainstabbin said:
Horus said:
Surely for the US to grant statehood to a territory, there must be some benefit to the US. So.... what's in it for USA?

Nothing. But the democrats get another 3 million voters, a congressman and 2 senators.

We used to get lots of soldiers from Puerto Rico. Huge influx in 20th century. 61k PRs served in Korea alone.

I'm not too sure if that tradition is still carrying.

Puerto Rico should remain a territory. A bunch of money lenders need to take a loss on all those bad loans provided, not the tax payers by way of a state bailout.
 
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