Question for the 99%'ers who argue for the 1%'s

[The_CEO]

You're wasting your breath brian. Mike is trying to get you to lay down now and admit defeat. If he were a top earner his tune would change. Some people like to find any excuse to their failures and wait for the gubmint to give them a handout "cuz life ain't fair". It's a socialist mindset. Why work hard when there's no incentive not to?

I grew working my ass off. It started helping my father laying rock and block at the age of 13 during the summers. I worked my ass off then, and still do. I'm in the top of the top 5%. My tax bracket paid 58.66 of all income taxes. Doesn't seem fair does it? Seem I'm pulling the someone's weight. Do you hear me bitching? No. It gives me more incentive to earn more to offset what I'm having to pay out.

Once you start jawboning about socialism you sound like you're on another planet. In the last 20 years the only hand outs have been going upward.

You're in the top 5% from laying brick and block when you were 13? Or b/c your dad owns the company that you laid brick and block for?

I learned a work ethic. My dad was a one man army and needed help. My parent will die poor, as will I, but we work. I bet you are a mysterious person, just like MikeCF and Gmanifesto. You talk shit but don't want to disclose what you do or make.

Until you bullshitters put up some info, and stop selling the dream, well........

So that experience taught you to be glad that a company that makes billions in profits pays no taxes?

I'm not selling a dream and never have.

 

[The_CEO]

This isn't good for anyone, including the 1%. The middle class are the ones buying the stuff they sell:

"Over the past three decades, the distribution of income in the United States has become increasingly dispersed -- in particular, the share of income accruing to high-income households has increased, whereas the share accruing to other households has declined," the CBO said.

For the top 1% of the population, average inflation-adjusted household income grew by 275%. The rest of wealthiest fifth of the population, not including the top 1%, saw household income grow by 65% during that time, faster than the rest of the population, but "not nearly as fast as for the top 1%."

And when we break down that top 1% (which is about 350,000 people of vastly differing incomes)? You'll see that the people you are really talking about is closer to 0.001%, or 3,500. The people at the top are a much, much smaller group than 1% (not even close to the actual number).

G, don't mistake clarification for "getting on my knees." I figured you were more intelligent than that.

You're right. I think that something like 400 families control the majority...

 

[Aliblahba]

Now you're just trolling.

Don't feed the trolls. If Gmanifesto was a real person he would meet me in Socal. I'm in Oceanside right now and would love to meet him. But he won't. I've talked to amistod and caguila, and met Emech. Some of us are real.

Gmanifesto talks big game but he's against the 1%. So why would a guy that could afford custom suits fight against the man? Sounds fucked up as a womans checkbook.

 

[thegmanifesto]

Now you're just trolling.

Don't feed the trolls. If Gmanifesto was a real person he would meet me in Socal. I'm in Oceanside right now and would love to meet him. But he won't. I've talked to amistod and caguila, and met Emech. Some of us are real.

Gmanifesto talks big game but he's against the 1%. So why would a guy that could afford custom suits fight against the man? Sounds fucked up as a womans checkbook.

Come on guy, you wear a wetsuit out at night.

And you are hypersensitive, and have zero sense of humor.

Please excuse me for not wanting to "roll" with you.

Your reasoning is hilarious, though.

There are tons of people with money that don't like the current system.

If you read anything I have written, you would know that I have been against that system my whole life.

I will ask you the same question I asked gmac, look above.

Which one is it for you?

 

[Gmac]

G, you want the truth? Neither.

Growing up, I stayed in the shadows and kept to myself, aside from a few close friends. I neither defended nor "took it up the ass" (your words) from the popular crowd. Honestly, that's a terrible analogy anyway, because most of the "popular" people I knew in high school aren't anywhere near what's defined as successful today.

Where does the mentality come from? Because my dad makes up the lower tier of that 1%. So I can easily call bullshit when people like you make generalizations. And no, I didn't grow up with a silver spoon in mouth. Quite the opposite (in fact I grew up as a military dependent -- lower middle class).

 

[The_CEO]

Now you're just trolling.

Don't feed the trolls. If Gmanifesto was a real person he would meet me in Socal. I'm in Oceanside right now and would love to meet him. But he won't. I've talked to amistod and caguila, and met Emech. Some of us are real.

Gmanifesto talks big game but he's against the 1%. So why would a guy that could afford custom suits fight against the man? Sounds fucked up as a womans checkbook.

You should throw your computer in a dumpster and go to the beach.
If I was in Socal, that's what I'd do.

 

[Gmac]

You should throw your computer in a dumpster and go to the beach.
If I was in Socal, that's what I'd do.

Come on really, is this what we've resorted to guys?

 

[cellblock4]

let me ask you a question - if the top 1%, whatever that particular cutoff may entail, all decided to close their businesses and fire/layoff all their employees what would happen to the economy?

I don't agree with that because IMO the US economy is fucked period. Those employees that you fire/layoff are the backbone of US GDP.
I think the part of the problem is the wages of the 99% have barely kept up with inflation since I believe the early 80's. So, now you take away credit for the average consumer and asset bubbles (taking cash out of your appreciating house) and the problem that has been masked for decades is now out in the open: most people start to feel the squeeze as their compensation has barely kept up with current expenses. How will GDP grow? The economy has to slowdown as GDP is 2/3 consumer spending and we officially have a 100% debt to GDP as of this week, so govt. spending is out of the question to fill the remaining 1/3.

The top 1% fully have the right to keep most of the money to themselves, but at some point, the 99% who are struggling, out of work, sick, disabled etc. will revolt. The veil of civility falls apart regardless who's fault it is - it's human nature. If some of you 1%'ers want to go down to Occupy Wall Street with a whiteboard and a marker and explain Econ101, be my guest, but I wouldn't suggest it.

I attribute our recession a huge part to wall street (my firm included) and those who had real jobs and their firms went out of business are wondering why the tax payers bailed out the banks and not their firms? These are the people I sympathize with as opposed to some hippie who got a degree in art and is looking for an outlet to complain. A decent amout of the 99% grew up in middle class households, have useful degrees, and envisioned a similar life for themselves. Basically, its like taking away a bone from a dogs mouth and you shouldn't be surprised if it bites back. Sadly, the American dream for most is just that, a dream.

I hate to be pessimistic, but because of the wealth distribution, IMO the US economy is fucked. Corporations may make money as they expand internationally, but that won't do much domestically. I'm not sure how you fix this inequality in income? Someone told me in Japan that the CEO only can make a fixed multiple of the lowest salaried employee, so therefore if the CEO gets a raise, so do the employees. Whether this is true or not, it seems like a good idea. Ultimately, the CEO maybe the visionary, but it did take the employees underneath him to make it happen. If you didn't need the employees, why have them on payroll? I'm sure there are shortcomings to this, but it's the best model I've heard of to keep the economy going and people content, especially if you have a market like the US with no savers.

In answer to your original question, although I'm not the 1%, I'm relatively close and can agree that the 1% has mostly worked their tails off to get there and taken more risks than the 99%-there are always tradeoffs. Having said this, to expect there won't be consequences down the road as the economy gets derailed is ignorant. What the 1% needs to consider is that at some point the way things are going, will the US become third world whereas the standard of living for the average person declines such that that the 99% have nothing to lose and resort to crime. Does the 1% want to live in a compound and have their kids dropped off to school with bodyguards, etc.? It's sounds like something that would happen in Mexico, but if the US continues the way that it has, I wouldn't be surprised if this is where we end up decades from now.

I like to think of this way: I live in a doorman building. The doormen are great, do their jobs well, and I can count of them do whatever I need even if I'm not around. During the holidays, I know I have to put some cash in an envelope for the entire building staff to supplement their working class compensation. If I don't "grease the wheels" I know that my packages or drycleaning might get lost or should my toilet clog, the maintenance guy will take forever to respond. I'm not saying its right, but I'm willing to send a bit down the chain to keep everything working smoothly.

 

[MikeCF]

I'm walking into Equinox = communicates more than a job with benefits. At least if you're in the know.

 

[The_CEO]

You should throw your computer in a dumpster and go to the beach.
If I was in Socal, that's what I'd do.

Come on really, is this what we've resorted to guys?

Translation- saying I'm jealous he's in Socal in November.

You need to relax.

 

[Gmac]

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

In other words, there are plenty of ways to live comfortably.

CEO: For all you know, he's on his phone at the beach. Still, point taken.

 

[The_CEO]

CEO: For all you know, he's on his phone at the beach. Still, point taken.

Your right. And I'd be more jealous.

 

[MVolt]

Don't feed the trolls. If Gmanifesto was a real person he would meet me in Socal. I'm in Oceanside right now and would love to meet him. But he won't. I've talked to amistod and caguila, and met Emech. Some of us are real.

Gmanifesto talks big game but he's against the 1%. So why would a guy that could afford custom suits fight against the man? Sounds fucked up as a womans checkbook.

You talk shit but don't want to disclose what you do or make.

Why would anyone want to disclose how much they make or what they do for a living over the Internet? To legitimize their Internet-cred? Come on, bro. Do you seriously think that if someone doesn't disclose personal/professional information, or meet up with you in real life, that they're just a fictional character? I know we live in the age of Facebook, where people freely submit personal information for all to see, but some of us enjoy our privacy and anonymity.

On that token, do you think Roosh or the other prominent members on this board are fake? You don't know how much they make, and I doubt you've met Roosh or most of the other long-time posters here. Do you think they're fake?

I hope you're not this nosy in real life.

 

[bface]

I can't stand people with victim mentalities...

Where you are in life is the result of a series of choices you made in the past. Of course some randomness is always involved, that's why you go for the path where probabilities are in your favor...

 

[thekiller]

Serious question, since I can't understand something.

Why?

Why do you argue on behalf of the 1%?

Some of us have day jobs where the 1% pay us well. Most of us, knowing how the 1% really operate (they are sociopaths and parasites, and their word means nothing), would never agitate - for free - on their behalf.

So why do you do it?

I'm not trolling. I'd really like to hear an explanation.

What do you get out of it? Do you feel good about yourself? Or does it boost your self esteem? Or is it just the amusement of trolling?

So your premise is if someone doesn't support a bunch of mostly lily-white, beta, whiny, entitled hipsters and their cohorts of 60s throwbacks and public sector union goons on their quest for taxpayer dollars, we MUST support Wall Street fatcats that gave more money to Obama than anyone else?
Fuck the supposed 99% and the 1%, I'm with the 53% who pay taxes that gets screwed by both groups.

 

[Hooligan Harry]

Cool story, bro.

If you're paying so much in taxes, then you're an EMPLOYEE.

You should go into business for yourself.

Get those write-offs.

You take a lot for granted and thats very short sighted.

I wish you could just write everything off. It does not work that way. The more you earn the more you get taxed, and the only way to avoid tax is to spend. Its the same in most western economies these days and you often incur double and triple taxation as a business owner. Most people dont understand that.

Ill give you some examples.

As a business, you pay taxes. Taxation law changes from country to country, but most companies are paying things like payroll taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes, taxes on profit, etc. That taxation is a taxation on the owners of the business at the end of the day. It is a personal tax and I challenge anyone to say otherwise. If something I own pays tax, then I am paying that tax.

Now if you are an owner, you may draw a salary (you pay the same rate of tax everyone else would based on the bracket you are in) and you also pay taxes on the dividends you draw in some countries.

So you are paying income tax for the bracket that you are in, just like your employees. Whose taxes you also happen to be paying as a result of the job you gave them. People work off what they clear, not what they get paid before taxes. Your income tax is a burden your employer wears too because the cost of your labour has to increase to offset that personal loss you take in taxation.

So you get creative and you establish trusts and separate companies. Instead of drawing salaries and taking your dividends, you funnel everything though trusts. This is where everyone thinks that they get fucked by the rich, but the reality of the situation is thatthe vast majority of what goes into a trust is actually reinvested into the greater economy, its not consumed.

You buy property, shares, invest in private equity, donate to charities, fund research, purchase assets, etc (yes, luxury toys too within reason). If you dont reinvest that money and accrue a paper loss, you will get taxed to fuck and back.

If you had to declare everything you earn as part of your primary income the taxes would kill you. Could you imagine having to pay 30%-50% of a couple of million every year just in taxes? What would happen to investment in commercial property, retail, private equity and venture capital, the luxury goods market, research, charities, private schools, etc?

You DO benefit from what the 1% earns. They cant spend that money and to avoid heavy taxation they have to reinvest it. That reinvestment provides the liquidity and capital any economy needs for growth.

Still, the taxman does not allow free reign and it needs to always be run like legit business's and investments. As soon as you draw for personal use you get taxed. Sure, you can work the system, but most of the time working the system leads to reinvestment in the economy.

People think that because they spend everything they earn on themselves, the rich do the same thing. The rich are trying to, but its simply not possible.

People do not appreciate the level of indirect taxation the wealthy incur.

 

[Aliblahba]

Now you're just trolling.

Don't feed the trolls. If Gmanifesto was a real person he would meet me in Socal. I'm in Oceanside right now and would love to meet him. But he won't. I've talked to amistod and caguila, and met Emech. Some of us are real.

Gmanifesto talks big game but he's against the 1%. So why would a guy that could afford custom suits fight against the man? Sounds fucked up as a womans checkbook.

Come on guy, you wear a wetsuit out at night.

And you are hypersensitive, and have zero sense of humor.

Please excuse me for not wanting to "roll" with you.

Your reasoning is hilarious, though.

There are tons of people with money that don't like the current system.

If you read anything I have written, you would know that I have been against that system my whole life.

I will ask you the same question I asked gmac, look above.

Which one is it for you?

You can't roll with me because you don't exist.

 

[Smitty]

a pretty good percentage of the mystical 1% are business owners and

entrepreneurs. maybe not small business owners, but they were probably small at one point. they busted their ass, took risk, and grew. it rarely happens overnight, and can often take decades. no guarantee, no safety net, and lots of employees depending on them. we covered this in another thread but its worth mentioning again - is Michael Moore a 1%er?

I work hard, I have since I was 15 working for my fathers construction company.

I still work hard, and I've got dick all to show for it. I pay out the ass for everything and barely squeak by with more then 100-200 dollars left at the end of each month.

You know what separates me from the 1%, its now how we got here or what we have. Its what we do with what we have

I've got not much of anything and I still share it with my fellow man, the 1% have it all and share none of it. Its about accountability and decency, not money.

Chad, working hard is only part of the equation. It also takes brains, luck, and good associates to advance far in this country. I think you're a smart dude and you'll find your way and be successful.
But the reason you have dick to show for your hard work right now is because of the choices you made.

What's the basis for your statement of the 1% not sharing any of what they have? Americans, rich and poor, are the most giving in the world.

 

[Aliblahba]

Now you're just trolling.

Don't feed the trolls. If Gmanifesto was a real person he would meet me in Socal. I'm in Oceanside right now and would love to meet him. But he won't. I've talked to amistod and caguila, and met Emech. Some of us are real.

Gmanifesto talks big game but he's against the 1%. So why would a guy that could afford custom suits fight against the man? Sounds fucked up as a womans checkbook.

You should throw your computer in a dumpster and go to the beach.
If I was in Socal, that's what I'd do.

I've already been to the beach. It's cold and overcast. Why go? I spent the night chasing strippers, and spending money left over from getting over taxed.

 

[Smitty]

For the top 1% of the population, average inflation-adjusted household income grew by 275%. The rest of wealthiest fifth of the population, not including the top 1%, saw household income grow by 65% during that time, faster than the rest of the population, but "not nearly as fast as for the top 1%."

So what? The 1% got richer than the rest of the wealthiest fifth of the population. I don't understand what the big deal is. This is America, where anyone in any class is still free to open a business and try to find success.
The issue I have is when people - rich and poor - are living off the taxpayers dime.
Other than that, who gives a fuck if one group is getting richer faster than another.