Question re: Warren Buffet paying 10% tax

[worldwidetraveler]

Now, you are treading on the boarders of a form of ad hominem to suggest that someone cannot have input into these wealth distribution and taxation matters b/c he has NOT been in your exact same shoes.

I doubt that you are part of the group of filthy wealthy that I refer to, and frequently guys that struggle to build something, such as a business, are getting screwed by the same elite that are setting the various rules that cause regular and smaller business entities to be overly burdened and these elite want you to think that the "poor" are the problem. and they also want you to think that the blacks and the women are the problem. and the immigrants.. etc etc...

The truth is that the filthy wealthy have been engaged in this wealth redistribution towards the top since the 80 and continuing to date, through republicans and democrats. And, accordingly, people on the lower end are getting taxed too much and think the solution is to NOT tax.. which is the whole nontax experiment that we have been trying since the 80s, and trickle down does NOT work.

You can have input as long as you realize you are more successful than many and to those people it may be you who should be giving more or what they feel is fair.

No, I am not in the .01% but the things most people call for wouldn't hurt those people but impact the groups that I am part of.

Still, the fact that you think someone shouldn't deserve their own island is kind of a hater comment and I think many of these ideals are based on jealousy to a certain point.

 

[JayJuanGee]

Cmon Jay, I am sure there are a lot of things in your life you don't need or deserve. I think it is time you sell them and pay your fair share man.

Why do you get to tell people what they deserve or need when you sit back and probably watch your television, listen to your stereo, type forum posts on your laptop, drive a nice car, wear nice clothes, etc...

Horribly faulty logic. You can't compare the income disparity between lower and middle class to the income disparity between middle class and upper class.

Not at all. I think if people made their money they should be able to spend it any way they want without someone telling them they don't deserve it or need it.

It is typically haters and jealous people that have a problems with how others are living their lives.

This is NOT about me. I have NO problem with capitalism and I have NO problem with people being able to prosper from their ingenuity, skills and luck. Additionally, I was exaggerating a little about the Island b/c thee may be circumstances in which guys may deserve to buy an island. In sum, this is NOT about me or the GOVT or anybody decision what people can do or have with their money, but rather is about fair contributions being made by those who are profiting from the infrastructure.

I have NO pie in the sky expectations that capitalism is coming down soon or anything like that, but I would like to see movement towards the building of infrastructure and jobs in this country in order that guys can go out there and make opportunities for themselves, and those situations are NOT very readily available when our country moves more towards the likeness of a banana republic and there are such disparities and plundering of the public good.

Sorry, but MY ideas are NOT coming from hate or jealousy.... b/c over the years, I have invested pretty well for myself.

 

[Veloce]

Cmon Jay, I am sure there are a lot of things in your life you don't need or deserve. I think it is time you sell them and pay your fair share man.

Why do you get to tell people what they deserve or need when you sit back and probably watch your television, listen to your stereo, type forum posts on your laptop, drive a nice car, wear nice clothes, etc...

Horribly faulty logic. You can't compare the income disparity between lower and middle class to the income disparity between middle class and upper class.

Not at all. I think if people made their money they should be able to spend it any way they want without someone telling them they don't deserve it or need it.

It is typically haters and jealous people that have a problems with how others are living their lives.

Well you didn't address my point about income disparity, so let's try this one:

Forget about America. Let's look at other countries that are run by wealthy and corrupt oligarchies. Do you think it's right that the average citizen in many countries on earth don't have access to clean water, indoor plumbing, safe neighborhoods, public schooling, and other basic living standards while the upper 1% dine in luxury, have a 12 car garage, servants, and live on gigantic estates with 15,000 sq. foot homes? Do you believe in any unfair income disparity whatsoever?

 

[worldwidetraveler]

It's funny how guys here are so worried about income disparity for other people.

This reminds me of a time when I was in real estate before the bubble got crazy. I took over ownership of a house and gave the owner some walking cash.

I ended up discounting the second lien holder to pennies on the dollar and created over 70k in equity because of it.

The owners must have found out about my successful negotiations and called the cops on me. The cops were waiting for me when I got to the house.

I showed the cops my deed and told them what happened.

The one cop looks at me as he was leaving and says "Don't you think 70k is a little too much to make?"

Man, I was shocked him trying to tell me I shouldn't make that much money. Of course, they didn't see the amount of time I put into learning the foreclosure laws, the amount of time I put into sales, the amount of time I put into learning how to pick the right houses, the amount of time I put into learning how to sell banks on taking losses, etc...


I found this to be somewhat of a normal stance for most people. Especially those that just haven't been that successful.

I still find it weird since I always believe that the money is out there and all you need to do is go after it. There is plenty of cash if you really want it.

I bet many, on this forum, would be slapping my back for my hustle.

I just find it funny, in a way, because there are people on this forum that seem to be acting like the cop and homeowners when it comes to the more successful people paying their share.

They just disguise it with income disparity worries. They think other people should pay for most if not all of infrastructure that everyone uses. Like it was that infrastructure, in itself, that made them rich. Hell, if that is the case, why don't they just use the infrastructure and become rich themselves?

Instead of getting their own they would rather take from someone else because they don't think they deserve or need islands, boats, multiple cars, airplanes, or whatever.

Me? I say if they want to buy an island, buy a damn island. You did good and you should enjoy the hell out of it.

It's kind of strange since if you are doing well why the fuck do you care about what others are doing? I wouldn't expect all these bleeding hearts on a player forum. Some of you guys should get rich and start up charities for those that you worry about.

 

[JayJuanGee]

It's funny how guys here are so worried about income disparity for other people.

This reminds me of a time when I was in real estate before the bubble got crazy. I took over ownership of a house and gave the owner some walking cash.

I ended up discounting the second lien holder to pennies on the dollar and created over 70k in equity because of it.

The owners must have found out about my successful negotiations and called the cops on me. The cops were waiting for me when I got to the house.

I showed the cops my deed and told them what happened.

The one cop looks at me as he was leaving and says "Don't you think 70k is a little too much to make?"

Man, I was shocked him trying to tell me I shouldn't make that much money. Of course, they didn't see the amount of time I put into learning the foreclosure laws, the amount of time I put into sales, the amount of time I put into learning how to pick the right houses, the amount of time I put into learning how to sell banks on taking losses, etc...


I found this to be somewhat of a normal stance for most people. Especially those that just haven't been that successful.

I still find it weird since I always believe that the money is out there and all you need to do is go after it. There is plenty of cash if you really want it.

I bet many, on this forum, would be slapping my back for my hustle.

I just find it funny, in a way, because there are people on this forum that seem to be acting like the cop and homeowners when it comes to the more successful people paying their share.

They just disguise it with income disparity worries. They think other people should pay for most if not all of infrastructure that everyone uses. Like it was that infrastructure, in itself, made them rich. Hell, if that is the case, why don't they just use the infrastructure and become rich themselves?

Instead of getting their own they would rather take from someone else because they don't think they deserve or need islands, boats, multiple cars, airplanes, or whatever.

Me? I say if they want to buy an island, buy a damn island. You did good and you should enjoy the hell out of it.

It's kind of strange since if you are doing well why the fuck do you care about what others are doing? I wouldn't expect all these bleeding hearts on a player forum. Some of you guys should get rich and start up charities for those that you worry about.

WWT:

Your latest post diverts from the whole issue, and NONE of us in this thread has asserted that we want equality for ALL, which you seem to imply. And, NO ONE here in this thread has asserted to be against guys finding niches and hustling for their betterment etc etc.

The assertion that was originally made in this thread was that trickle down economics works that if you give to the rich that it will somehow magically trickle down, and in essence that if the well-to-do do NOT have to pay taxes, then that money that they are saved will trickle down to the masses and the creation of jobs etc etc.

My assertion was that trickle down does NOT work. The Dude's providing an example outside of the United States was to show extremes in which infrastructure will deteriorate when neglected. My assertion is that the United states has been progressing in the direction of neglect of infrastructure based upon its redistribution of wealth towards the rich - that has been taking place since the 80s.

Some of the guys, here, had been complaining about double taxation are missing the point that the wealthy leaching off of the regular people are causing regular people to have to bear more and of the burden of the failure of the rich to contribute. That burden of the rich failing to contribute is picked up by everybody else.

A lot of us are suffering, unless you happen to be amongst the .01%. I believe guys making below $200K a year are part of the 99% (and NOT part of the .01%), and likely, WWT, you are in that category of the 99% and likely below $200k per year (though of course I do NOT know your details, but I surmise that more than 99.9% of the guys participating in this forum are earning on average less than 200K per year over the past 5 years), even though apparently you may have "friends" that may be bordering on going above that 200k per year level.

So, in that regard, even though you are suggesting that some guys here in this thread are bleeding hearts towards the poor, I have trouble understanding why some guys, such as yourself, seem to be conducting arguments of "bleeding hearts" for the wealthy. As if the interests of giving everything to the wealthy (or NOT taxing them) is going to serve American society and infrastructure as a whole.

Personally, I deny being a bleeding heart for the poor or any advocate of equality.... but rather more concerned about social stability and promotion of the maintenance of an American middle class... rather than a banana republic. The American middle class is a dying breed and getting worse and worse and the standard of living of other countries are doing much better, even countries in which citizens pay way more in taxes.

NO matter what the system, gaming and hustling is separate b/c guys can find ways to make his niche and to hustle NO MATTER what the system.

 

[worldwidetraveler]

Jay, you should stop assuming stuff. hah I already stated I am worried about what effects me.

If you're suffering, do something about it. You live in one of the greatest countries in the world. The opportunities are endless here and anyone from here should not complain about this type of stuff.

Why do you think anyone needs to serve society or you? No one owes you anything.

 

[Veloce]

It's funny how guys here are so worried about income disparity for other people.

This reminds me of a time when I was in real estate before the bubble got crazy. I took over ownership of a house and gave the owner some walking cash.

I ended up discounting the second lien holder to pennies on the dollar and created over 70k in equity because of it.

The owners must have found out about my successful negotiations and called the cops on me. The cops were waiting for me when I got to the house.

I showed the cops my deed and told them what happened.

The one cop looks at me as he was leaving and says "Don't you think 70k is a little too much to make?"

Man, I was shocked him trying to tell me I shouldn't make that much money. Of course, they didn't see the amount of time I put into learning the foreclosure laws, the amount of time I put into sales, the amount of time I put into learning how to pick the right houses, the amount of time I put into learning how to sell banks on taking losses, etc...


I found this to be somewhat of a normal stance for most people. Especially those that just haven't been that successful.

I still find it weird since I always believe that the money is out there and all you need to do is go after it. There is plenty of cash if you really want it.

I bet many, on this forum, would be slapping my back for my hustle.

I just find it funny, in a way, because there are people on this forum that seem to be acting like the cop and homeowners when it comes to the more successful people paying their share.

They just disguise it with income disparity worries. They think other people should pay for most if not all of infrastructure that everyone uses. Like it was that infrastructure, in itself, that made them rich. Hell, if that is the case, why don't they just use the infrastructure and become rich themselves?

Instead of getting their own they would rather take from someone else because they don't think they deserve or need islands, boats, multiple cars, airplanes, or whatever.

Me? I say if they want to buy an island, buy a damn island. You did good and you should enjoy the hell out of it.

It's kind of strange since if you are doing well why the fuck do you care about what others are doing? I wouldn't expect all these bleeding hearts on a player forum. Some of you guys should get rich and start up charities for those that you worry about.

Instead of writing that longwinded, passive aggressive, insulting garbage you could have just said, "Nope, don't care about income disparity".

 

[worldwidetraveler]

Instead of writing that longwinded, passive aggressive, insulting garbage you could have just said, "Nope, don't care about income disparity".

Sensitive?

I'll let you worry about everyone else and take care of my own. You have to wonder what life would be like if everyone would worry about taking care of themselves and not wait for someone else to save them.

Hell, the more they take care of themselves, the more people would want to help them. I always enjoy helping someone but don't want to do it for them.

I don't live in other countries so there is no reason for me to discuss it.

 

[JayJuanGee]

Jay, you should stop assuming stuff. hah I already stated I am worried about what effects me.

If I assumed anything incorrectly, I apologize. I tried to outline and describe any assumptions that i was making. I am trying to stick to the topic of trickle down economics that was mentioned, and I am NOT trying to get into any of your details - b/c I do NOT really know your details. If you happen to be better off than I believe then good for you - that would likely be besides the point (but if it is a factor, then pray tell).

If you're suffering, do something about it. You live in one of the greatest countries in the world. The opportunities are endless here and anyone from here should not complain about this type of stuff.

There you go again - attempting to make this about me. Again, I am NOT suffering, and I do NOT deny that there are many opportunities for guys. That is apart from my point about trickle down does NOT work and we, as a society, need to imagine investing as the solution - NOT giving additional and undeserved breaks to the wealthy - who have only been abusing their breaks for many years, including the recent capital strike that has been occurring since about 2007 or 2008-ish (a capital strike is failure and refusal to invest in america, to give out loans to small businesses to give out loans to home owners).

Why do you think anyone needs to serve society or you? No one owes you anything.

We all give or take in various ways, and I am NOT claiming to be owed anything. I have had good luck and bad luck with my various ventures in life, and I am even willing to put up with double taxation here and there, if I cannot figure out any way to get out of it. I attempt to muster my resources to maximize my benefits, but again, my various claims in this thread is NOT about me.... and I do NOT feel that I am owed anything.

Contrarily, you, WWT (NO hating) seem to believe that you are owed less taxes, but if you work for finding various niches, you can find some tax loopholes, no? I have NO problem with that, but I do have problems if guys argue conclusively that somehow trickle down works, they do NOT provide any evidence of such (beyond bare assertions) when the evidence since the 80s seems clearly to be to the contrary.

 

[Veloce]

Sensitive?

I'll let you worry about everyone else and take care of my own. You have to wonder what life would be like if everyone would worry about taking care of themselves and not wait for someone else to save them.

So very sensitive. The feels!

Noone ever discussed worrying about anything. My original question to you was posed as follows:

Do you think it's right...

I asked you a question about your ethics but your soapbox response just dances around some pretty condescending assumptions. Regardless, forget about it and enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[worldwidetraveler]

If I assumed anything incorrectly, I apologize.

No need to apologize man. I don't take offense to any of this.

There you go again - attempting to make this about me.

Jay, you said "a lot of us are suffering". I just took it the way you wrote it.

We all give or take in various ways, and I am NOT claiming to be owed anything.

You made the comment about serving society. You are part of society, are you not?

Contrarily, you, WWT (NO hating) seem to believe that you are owed less taxes, but if you work for finding various niches, you can find some tax loopholes, no? I have NO problem with that, but I do have problems if guys argue conclusively that somehow trickle down works, they do NOT provide any evidence of such (beyond bare assertions) when the evidence since the 80s seems clearly to be to the contrary.

Yes, you seem to have problems with wealthy people not paying enough taxes. I never mentioned trickle down economics. I mentioned that the wealthy are already paying 70% of all taxes brought in and you say it isn't enough.

 

[worldwidetraveler]

Sensitive?

I'll let you worry about everyone else and take care of my own. You have to wonder what life would be like if everyone would worry about taking care of themselves and not wait for someone else to save them.

So very sensitive. The feels!

Noone ever discussed worrying about anything. My original question to you was posed as follows:

Do you think it's right...

I asked you a question about your ethics but your soapbox response just dances around some pretty condescending assumptions. Regardless, forget about it and enjoy the rest of your day.

No soapbox, it was my experiences and was posted to demonstrate where I was coming from. It wasn't a direct response to your question.

I would rather worry about what I can control than what I can't. The whole idea of fixing income disparity tends to be a slippery slope.

When does it stop? There will always be someone who doesn't make a lot of money crying it isn't fair.

People brought up income disparity so there must be some worry about it.

I don't take anything here bad, man. I hope you don't either and it wasn't my intention to be passive aggressive, condescending or just plain loveable. The loveable part is just hard to shake.

It isn't like I haven't been poor. I just didn't make excuses for it and knew it was up to me to change it. I didn't want anyone else to do it for me.

 

[Ensam]

It's not enough. Not even close. The wealthy should pay more in taxes because they have more to lose. The better off you are in society the more you have to lose if society falls apart. Wealth only has meaning in the context of the society you live in. Whatever lifestyle you lead only exists because there are people who are willing to do things for you in exchange for the for a portion of the wealth you've acquired. Property rights only exist because the society we live in protects them. When wealth distribution gets too out of whack people have a tendency to redistribute it regardless of how the wealthy feel about it. Historically those have not been pleasant times and many of the wealthy did not survive. I'd rather not see that happen in my lifetime or my childrens. The arrogance of people who are wealthier than me and assume that they'll be able to hold onto their wealth regardless of what happens in society is astonishing.

 

[worldwidetraveler]

It's not enough. Not even close. The wealthy should pay more in taxes because they have more to lose. The better off you are in society the more you have to lose if society falls apart. Wealth only has meaning in the context of the society you live in. Whatever lifestyle you lead only exists because there are people who are willing to do things for you in exchange for the for a portion of the wealth you've acquired. Property rights only exist because the society we live in protects them. When wealth distribution gets too out of whack people have a tendency to redistribute it regardless of how the wealthy feel about it. Historically those have not been pleasant times and many of the wealthy did not survive. I'd rather not see that happen in my lifetime or my childrens. The arrogance of people who are wealthier than me and assume that they'll be able to hold onto their wealth regardless of what happens in society is astonishing.

We are talking about a world economy now and business are not constrained locally like they were in the past. You got Tech companies with billions sitting overseas. That is just sales from overseas and not from within the US economy. The ability to reach markets around the world is one of the reasons people have become wealthier.

The US lost a lot of manufacturing jobs because of it. I remember when a lot of IT jobs went overseas as well. I was a consultant at the time and saw jobs dry up over night.

This country needs to be more competitive to get those jobs back. You can't try and force companies to do business here but give them reasons to want do business here.

The US has had it good for too long but are slowly losing its edge and needs to entice instead of trying to squeeze out more juice.

 

[DVY]

Dividends should be very low % tax, and Cap Gains should be low % tax as well. All this money is money that has had taxes paid on it.

Over 50% of the population pays no tax (or recieves more money than tax they pay).

This whole tax thing is way overblown. There are tons of hidden taxes. In CA, I think taxes are prolly around 60-70% for high-income earners==40% federal, 10% state, 1% of gross (for LA city- so count it as 2-3% tax). Then add sales tax (10%) , internet tax, gas tax, water tax, natural gas tax, electricity tax, cellphone tax, airplane tax, service tax, police tickets, bureacratic city services (tax on business), FICA, social security, unemployment, business incorporation tax (800 dollars or 1% of gross- whichever is bigger). Its INSANE.

The most important thing is reducing entitlement spending. Government is one of the biggest sucks on private economy. I am long beyond the point that I think raising taxed will do ANYTHING. Its just more pie for the government to steal.

A crazy statistic from Matt Taibbi's "Griftopia" illuminate a big reason why healthcare costs are spiraling. The reasons are stunningly obvious yet none of the general population has any awareness. This was further highlighted w/my experiences from dental inudstry- Insurance Companies. 40% of all hospital costs go towards hiring staff to fill out paperwork for insurance companies. Insurance companies aren't stupid, they want to take in more money than they give out. They attempt to maximize paperwork, slowdown payment times (end of 90 days), reject claims, make obscure rules. All this does is run-up costs on administrative sides for hopsitals. They increase prices to cover this, and insurance tries to pay even less. Vicious cycle.

The whole argument of "doctors are greedy" or "hospital are greedy" may have some steam, but the vast inefficiency is with 3rd party payers who dictate circumstances. The funniest thing is we have made a synergy between government (poorly-run, inefficient, authocratic) with an insurance mafia. I foresee ever increasing fees, increasing wait-times, higher premiums, less pay to doctors, more administrative jobs to combat insurance companies and more administrative jobs at insurance companies to combat hospitals. Basically a Soviet-style economy which everybody has a menial job that basically does nothing.

 

[JayJuanGee]

There you go again - attempting to make this about me.

Jay, you said "a lot of us are suffering". I just took it the way you wrote it.

This may be a product of my laziness in writing so much and my point may have gotten lost in the volume.

When I say that a lot of us are suffering, I am referring collectively to the “royal we”… .. anyhow, that American society is suffering for the lack of investments that have been occurring.

Nonetheless, I will stick to my assertion that you seem to want to read into the substance of my arguments in such ways as to make the arguments about me or about some bias that I may have. We all have our individual circumstances, and my particulars are likely NOT very relevant to the points that I am making. Your focusing on me seems to be an unnecessary diversion from the issue.

We all give or take in various ways, and I am NOT claiming to be owed anything.

You made the comment about serving society. You are part of society, are you not?

There is NO real substance, here. Yes, we all benefit from investments into the infrastructure – even though some guys believe that investment in infrastructure is NOT needed because it unfairly advantages the poor, the women and the weak. I try NOT to worry about these kinds of things because overall I would rather live in a society with infrastructure.

Contrarily, you, WWT (NO hating) seem to believe that you are owed less taxes, but if you work for finding various niches, you can find some tax loopholes, no? I have NO problem with that, but I do have problems if guys argue conclusively that somehow trickle down works, they do NOT provide any evidence of such (beyond bare assertions) when the evidence since the 80s seems clearly to be to the contrary.

Yes, you seem to have problems with wealthy people not paying enough taxes. I never mentioned trickle down economics. I mentioned that the wealthy are already paying 70% of all taxes brought in and you say it isn't enough.

You are correct, that I do have some problem with the wealthy NOT paying enough taxes, and NOW, we seem to be diverging into repetitiveness, because earlier I already answered your points. Additionally, in my view, there is NO specific formula exactly for how much who pays (but currently they are paying too little, that is for sure that I already made that point over and over). Ultimately, the American people should decide the details about how much exactly is paid, and.. right now, the people who are making the decision are not the american people and is only a few, as we all seem to already realize that the decisions are being called by monied interests of .01% as you seem to have already acknowledged and NOT by the American people.

We are talking about a world economy now and business are not constrained locally like they were in the past. You got Tech companies with billions sitting overseas. That is just sales from overseas and not from within the US economy. The ability to reach markets around the world is one of the reasons people have become wealthier.

The US lost a lot of manufacturing jobs because of it. I remember when a lot of IT jobs went overseas as well. I was a consultant at the time and saw jobs dry up over night.

This country needs to be more competitive to get those jobs back. You can't try and force companies to do business here but give them reasons to want do business here.

The US has had it good for too long but are slowly losing its edge and needs to entice instead of trying to squeeze out more juice.

This exitus of wealth and production from the US was NOT an accident, it was a political creation that came in large ways through Clinton’s NAFTA and was begun in those times. Anyhow, the global ecomony and the mobility of capital is NOT inevitable, and we, as a country, DO NOT have to engage in race to the bottom with companies to beg for companies to stay on their terms - that is a figment of the imagination of people to suggest that governments do NOT have power. Companied interests want to cause Govt to be so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub, and that is NOT reality of the current situation (even though frequently govt is divided and unfocused in having the balls to stand up against big companies but companies create that govtmental weakness). The US Govt is sufficiently powerful to be able to disallow the mobility of capital if it were able to focus and exercise will and possibly even military, but in some sense we, as a govt, have painted ourselves into a corner by allowing such capital mobility and flight to take place for so long that it will become more and more difficult to put some of that toothpaste back into the tube.. It’s NOT going to be a pretty picture… and NONE of these kinds of changes are coming soon.

 

[jimukr104]

Ok....those who supported a flat tax were mostly the rich..flat taxes would have screwed low income, most middle class and retirees even more. It was not moral... Being equitable isn't FAIR. They are Not 2 of the same thing.Since the rich basically set the whole wage structure they definitely should and have to pay more..and they do. Our present system works. Although i think they should fund social security better by taxing all wage income fro mit since the highest payers get the bigger amount anyway.
But ultimately you can only tax the rich so much. Don't want to make fun of EU but you got countries where a large % of population wants to freeload off the workers...that isn't right.Most socialized Euro countries including Canada have even larger issues coming due to their high tax brackets...they have reached the max and you can't raise it much. I once read how EU countries VATS had gone up as country needed more money. All these BS socialized programs need to stop. Do you realize some of your money pays for feminist groups?
The dumb Democrats seem Not to believe in the tinkle down effect but in the end all they do is bankrupt cities, states. Detroit and Chicago are good examples of Democrat leadership.
One of the reasons the US economy hasn't improved greatly(they lying about it btw) is due to Obamacare. Businesses are refusing to hire and cutting hours. He started a program that will only make insurance companies rich and NOT solve the real issues.
As for infrastructure...irrelevant topic since most infrastructure is the responsibility of mulnicipal governments. This isn't Europe lol. Each state and city makes its own roads, sanitation, and even public transportation.This is where part of the corruption comes from. Most people(excluding property taxes) pay more taxes to Fed gov't .But the bulk of our dailiy service is provided by local gov't and since the fed squeezes so much tax funds from folks there isn't much to squeeze.Why isn't the Feds bailing out Detroit? Fucking pensions at stake(can't trust gov't who can you trust?)..that never happen in EU since the national budget would come in to help.
My solution is that let the FEDS concentrate on national security(make cuts) and that it.That was all the original us gov't was surpose to do..the constitution even forbid the coinage of currency at the fed level. Reduce everyone's taxes accordingly and let the local government get the money. We will then see improvements like you would never believe. The FED gov't is even more irresponsible than local gov't with tax revenue..but the fed can print money,cities can't.
roads paid by state
libraries=state
police,fireman. teacher's =state
The only useful paid feds are the mailmen tbh.
Get rid of corrupt FDA..save money.
Fema is incompetant.Get rid of them. In New Orleans NYPD FDNY,sent a few hundred cops to help out. Fema did crap.

But better question why do we want better infrastructure here? lol...most guys here want out..let the American women and beta guys who remain deal with the infrastructure. Personally I HATE paying taxes and often think of giving up citizenship because just the thought of those crack head gals and ghetto thugs surviving on my funds makes me bitter.
Our taxes goes to save the whales(i am talking the 2 footed kind), save the feminists, save the gay marriages, protecting hollywood dvds and supporting prisoners for life in prison.Cheaper to just line em up and shoot em if you ask me and more humane!In NYS it costs 100k per year per prisoner.
Did I add that financial crimes and crimes against women get guys punished more than the original sins?

 

[worldwidetraveler]

This exitus of wealth and production from the US was NOT an accident, it was a political creation that came in large ways through Clinton’s NAFTA and was begun in those times. Anyhow, the global ecomony and the mobility of capital is NOT inevitable, and we, as a country, DO NOT have to engage in race to the bottom with companies to beg for companies to stay on their terms - that is a figment of the imagination of people to suggest that governments do NOT have power. Companied interests want to cause Govt to be so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub, and that is NOT reality of the current situation (even though frequently govt is divided and unfocused in having the balls to stand up against big companies but companies create that govtmental weakness). The US Govt is sufficiently powerful to be able to disallow the mobility of capital if it were able to focus and exercise will and possibly even military, but in some sense we, as a govt, have painted ourselves into a corner by allowing such capital mobility and flight to take place for so long that it will become more and more difficult to put some of that toothpaste back into the tube.. It’s NOT going to be a pretty picture… and NONE of these kinds of changes are coming soon.

I disagree. They could try to stop it but it would end up making things far worst for the US in the end. The US can't stop a company from going overseas. If they try to bully them through the financial sector, they will end up losing more and more power as companies and governments start bypassing the US entirely.

I remember reading an article about people starting tech companies here instead of overseas. It was mainly because it was easier but that also implied if things got tougher then it would warrant starting those companies overseas. There is a tipping point when it comes to these things.

There has been Congressional meetings when it came to companies using the Double Irish tax schemes. The US even tried to push Ireland (even accusing them of creating illegal tax shelters) which had no effect at all.

 

[JayJuanGee]

This exitus of wealth and production from the US was NOT an accident, it was a political creation that came in large ways through Clinton’s NAFTA and was begun in those times. Anyhow, the global ecomony and the mobility of capital is NOT inevitable, and we, as a country, DO NOT have to engage in race to the bottom with companies to beg for companies to stay on their terms - that is a figment of the imagination of people to suggest that governments do NOT have power. Companied interests want to cause Govt to be so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub, and that is NOT reality of the current situation (even though frequently govt is divided and unfocused in having the balls to stand up against big companies but companies create that govtmental weakness). The US Govt is sufficiently powerful to be able to disallow the mobility of capital if it were able to focus and exercise will and possibly even military, but in some sense we, as a govt, have painted ourselves into a corner by allowing such capital mobility and flight to take place for so long that it will become more and more difficult to put some of that toothpaste back into the tube.. It’s NOT going to be a pretty picture… and NONE of these kinds of changes are coming soon.

I disagree. They could try to stop it but it would end up making things far worst for the US in the end. The US can't stop a company from going overseas. If they try to bully them through the financial sector, they will end up losing more and more power as companies and governments start bypassing the US entirely.

I remember reading an article about people starting tech companies here instead of overseas. It was mainly because it was easier but that also implied if things got tougher then it would warrant starting those companies overseas. There is a tipping point when it comes to these things.

There has been many meetings when it came to companies using the Double Irish tax schemes. The US even tried to push Ireland (even accusing them of creating illegal tax shelters) which had no effect at all.

I agree that the capital flight question may be much beyond my ability to grasp how to control it, exactly. But, I do know that we, as a country, do NOT want to get into a position in which we are "competing" for companies in some race to the bottom bullshit. In any event those are more reasons to have infrastructure in America in order that companies want to locate here. Though, I am NOT going to argue with you, here b/c currently, I do NOT have some kind of comprehensive plan that would accomplish being able to control capital... currently, the USA seems to be of the belief that it is of the US interest to paper international companies.... take the TPP for example, which is only going to do more to screw american workers to compete with the wages of low paid asian workers.

 

[jimukr104]

"You are correct, that I do have some problem with the wealthy NOT paying enough taxes, and NOW, we seem to be diverging into repetitiveness, because earlier I already answered your points. Additionally, in my view, there is NO specific formula exactly for how much who pays (but currently they are paying too little, that is for sure that I already made that point over and over). Ultimately, the American people should decide the details about how much exactly is paid, and.. right now, the people who are making the decision are not the american people and is only a few, as we all seem to already realize that the decisions are being called by monied interests of .01% as you seem to have already acknowledged and NOT by the American people. "


BS.... believe it or NOT America was originally suppose to be a Republic with checks and balances NOT a Democratic nation.Pledge of Aliigiance confims that!
Our founding fathers knew that Democracies don't work and burn themselves down. giving THE majority WILL PREFERENCE never works. One of them even said that there isn't much difference from a single despot or 51% majority.The problem should be obvious. There will always be more poor than rich in EVERY society. A society that listens to the majority will always be about taking away from the few that have(like Obama is doing). In the end majority hates jews...lets kill jews. Majority hates rich...kill rich. Majority(one day will not be white") hates whites..kill whites. That's always been the problem of listening to the will of the PEOPLE.Minorities aren't protected. Even the middle class a century ago was a minority.
Interestly enough when these majority uprisings takes place...the nations tend to dip into more poverty and wars!
Don't get me wrong politicians on both sides are getting bribed by the rich..but like I SAID it still better than be swooned by the majority. The rich have an invested interest that society doesn't go into the dark ages..unfortunately the masses aren't that smart to do things to avoid that.I mean for crissakes the American public has got to be the stupidest voters on the earth(after Ukrainians). they pay more attention to social issues like feminism, abortion, gay marriages than about voting for folks who will actually improve their standard of living.
War in Iraq was a good example of using the masses for approval..costing trillions.
they have done studies. People would rather take cows away from those who have more just to make everyone equal than to actually allow the rich to have more cows and they also have more.Its human nature.
Incidently the stock bubble is benefiting the rich the most since they have the most stock..but its being done to boost up the avg persons house value and 401k. The real losers here(ME ) are the ones who honestly earned our money and saved/invested wisely. its the avg citizen who fucking thought they had a right to buy a home with money they barely had and take those loan conditions not realizing rates would go up. The bankers did their jobs...it was our avg countrymen who did what they did. I have a solution? if folks would stop running up debt to buy a new phone every year, etc maybe more folks would invest and become rich??

Read a book called the millionaire next door..it will open your eyes. Most rich got rich because of their individual work,effort and frugality.