Questions about Orthodoxy

Luna Novem

Kingfisher
Woman
Catholic
Orthodoxy is the one branch of Christianity that I don't know much about. What are some good books or websites to begin learning? Also, for those who are Orthodox, would you say it's a fair assessment that it is the branch least tainted by humanity? Does that make sense? In order to be Catholic, one must believe in the infallibility of the Pope... in order to be Protestant, one must accept man's teaching on various denominational doctrines. Is Orthodoxy freer of such things?
 

DanielH

Hummingbird
Moderator
Orthodox
Orthodoxy is the one branch of Christianity that I don't know much about. What are some good books or websites to begin learning?
God's Revelation to the Human Heart by Father Seraphim Rose would be the number one book I'd recommend to people as an introduction to Orthodoxy. It was originally two lectures given to a class of largely secular Californian college students. After hearing these words, many of the students went on to become deacons, priests, monks, and even bishops. It is a short book which can be read in an hour or two. It is five dollars. There's also youtube videos of people reading it but those aren't high quality.

This site has pretty much everything about Orthodoxy an inquirer would want to know in a very accessible format. I used this extensively as an inquirer and catechumen. It is also available in book form.
Also, for those who are Orthodox, would you say it's a fair assessment that it is the branch least tainted by humanity? Does that make sense? In order to be Catholic, one must believe in the infallibility of the Pope... in order to be Protestant, one must accept man's teaching on various denominational doctrines. Is Orthodoxy freer of such things?
Yes that's fair, but that doesn't mean we're perfect. We still have priests and bishops who are human. We are generally more spiritual and don't dogmatize as many things as the Catholics, but the things we do dogmatize cannot be negotiated. You cannot be 99.9% Orthodox. You either are or you aren't. I didn't agree with everything the Church taught at first but I eventually realized wherever I disagree, I must change. I don't know better than the saints.

Some examples: What happens immediately after death? A: We don't know exactly for sure but many saints say your soul will be tempted by demons after you die and you will need to be able to resist their temptations. Was Mary without sin? A: Many think so, but none of us think she was given a special exemption from original sin, we also have a totally different idea of original sin than the West.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
This book is also very good for those interested in Orthodoxy:

Indication of the Way into the Kingdom of Heaven by St. Innocent of Alaska

I'd also browse through Father Josiah Trenham's YouTube channel. Start with topics you're interested in:
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Catholic
Gold Member
Orthodoxy is the one branch of Christianity that I don't know much about. What are some good books or websites to begin learning? Also, for those who are Orthodox, would you say it's a fair assessment that it is the branch least tainted by humanity? Does that make sense? In order to be Catholic, one must believe in the infallibility of the Pope... in order to be Protestant, one must accept man's teaching on various denominational doctrines. Is Orthodoxy freer of such things?
What are you trying to accomplish by studying such things?
 

Luna Novem

Kingfisher
Woman
Catholic
What are you trying to accomplish by studying such things?
Part of it is pure intellectual stimulation. The other part is a spiritual seeking. I was raised Catholic and am immersed in American Protestantism. I don't want to miss out on what Orthodoxy has to offer just because of my life circumstances.
 

Ah_Tibor

Pelican
Woman
Orthodox
Read the Bible, it's all there haha

Short answer: no. People is people... however, the liturgical practice is largely the same as it was and doesn't change. I feel like Orthodoxy has a much more personal, human vibe, and the connection to history seems more relatable. God is with us, not "up there," which is how I feel about Catholicism or Prostestantism. (Personal bias, as that's how I was raised.)

Truth be told, though, I've been having a hard time with everything lately watching everyone cave. My brother is a priest and holding out pretty strong, but our priest gave a sermon on vaccination and hoping everyone gets it, my old priest and his wife soft-pressured my mom into it; masks, stupid paper towels instead of a communion cloth (or no communion at all), cancelling social events, being jerks to the elderly. Coming from the same people who laud those who resisted oppressive governments? Then again, you always have collaborators. That's just life and human nature, I guess... still depressing. (Also being more outwardly traditional does not exclude the kind of people found in more liberal churches at all, they are just quiet about it)

Anyway, this is sort of a rambly non-answer. Just go to a church and see if you like it. Also I read Dostoevsky when I feel down, I feel like he's a good artistic representation of Orthodox thought
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Catholic
Gold Member
Part of it is pure intellectual stimulation. The other part is a spiritual seeking. I was raised Catholic and am immersed in American Protestantism. I don't want to miss out on what Orthodoxy has to offer just because of my life circumstances.
Your bio says "Catholic." Are you regularly attending Mass?

The reason I ask is - the internet has led many to fall prey to the vice of curiosity. We mistakenly believe that we MUST know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING. When in reality...the answers are right in front of us.
 

Luna Novem

Kingfisher
Woman
Catholic
Your bio says "Catholic." Are you regularly attending Mass?

The reason I ask is - the internet has led many to fall prey to the vice of curiosity. We mistakenly believe that we MUST know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING. When in reality...the answers are right in front of us.
I only attend every once in awhile. I'm finding it hard to get the motivation to go. When I go, I go alone (I am married to a strongly Protestant husband) and I am unable to take the Eucharist (combination of wheat allergy and no wine offered during covid).

I hadn't heard of the vice of curiosity. That's pretty interesting, actually. I suppose it only makes sense that one can fall prey to the opposite of ignorance, and swing too widely to the side of curiosity.
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
Catholic
In order to be Catholic, one must believe in the infallibility of the Pope...

Remember this is only under a very specific set of circumstances - when the Pope speaks "Ex Catedra". It hasn't been done since 1950 when the assumption of Mary was added to the Dogma of the Catholic Church.

As a lay Catholic, I found this a stumbling block years back, and I have seen people bring it up. It goes with the doctrine that the "gates of hell will not prevail", this doesn't mean that the Church itself or Pope can't face heretical ideas, or corruption, but that the dogma moral teaching can be infallible when announced in such a way (Ex Cathedra).
 

Luna Novem

Kingfisher
Woman
Catholic
Remember this is only under a very specific set of circumstances - when the Pope speaks "Ex Catedra". It hasn't been done since 1950 when the assumption of Mary was added to the Dogma of the Catholic Church.

As a lay Catholic, I found this a stumbling block years back, and I have seen people bring it up. It goes with the doctrine that the "gates of hell will not prevail", this doesn't mean that the Church itself or Pope can't face heretical ideas, or corruption, but that the dogma moral teaching can be infallible when announced in such a way (Ex Cathedra).
I actually didn't know that. I went back to Mass after about 20 years away, so I missed a lot.
 

NickK

 
Banned
Orthodox
Your bio says "Catholic." Are you regularly attending Mass?

The reason I ask is - the internet has led many to fall prey to the vice of curiosity. We mistakenly believe that we MUST know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING. When in reality...the answers are right in front of us.
There's bad curiosity and good curiosity. It's good when it leads you to the Truth.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Catholic
Gold Member
I only attend every once in awhile. I'm finding it hard to get the motivation to go. When I go, I go alone (I am married to a strongly Protestant husband)
That is a tough situation. You should ask St. Monica for help. She's widely known for her son St. Augustine, but she was also married to a cheating Pagan. Her life of prayer and commitment to the Church make her a fantastic example for you to follow.
I am unable to take the Eucharist (combination of wheat allergy and no wine offered during covid).
This is also a difficult situation. Many parishes offer low-gluten hosts, you just have to ask. Another alternative is to abstain from receiving and only practice spiritual communion. It's better than nothing.
 

catholicmom

Sparrow
Woman
I only attend every once in awhile. I'm finding it hard to get the motivation to go. When I go, I go alone (I am married to a strongly Protestant husband) and I am unable to take the Eucharist (combination of wheat allergy and no wine offered during covid).
Just FYI...most parishes these days offer low-gluten hosts. The gluten count is actually so low that they would legally qualify as gluten-free, but Church teaching dictates that they contain at least some gluten (in the ppm). But if wheat starch is an issue, I'm not sure how that works...
If you talk to a priest before Mass, they will likely show you to the sacristy, where you can place a low-gluten host into a pyx. You then place that to a place near the altar before Mass (with the chalices and such), and the priest will include that with the consecration. You then receive the Eucharist from the pyx.
Remember this is only under a very specific set of circumstances - when the Pope speaks "Ex Catedra". It hasn't been done since 1950 when the assumption of Mary was added to the Dogma of the Catholic Church.

As a lay Catholic, I found this a stumbling block years back, and I have seen people bring it up. It goes with the doctrine that the "gates of hell will not prevail", this doesn't mean that the Church itself or Pope can't face heretical ideas, or corruption, but that the dogma moral teaching can be infallible when announced in such a way (Ex Cathedra).
Just quoting for emphasis. This is HUGE, and the VAST majority of non-Catholics do not understand this. I grew up very anti-Catholic, and we were taught that Catholics believe that everything that comes out of the pope's mouth is infallible, that Catholics worship Mary, etc. Luna, if there are any major sticking points that you have with Catholic dogma, there's a high chance you were not properly catechized on that issue or that the sticking point itself is based on a lie that has been promulgated regarding the Church (or there's always the chance it's just plain-old unwillingness to mentally assent). Catholic teaching is incredibly cohesive. It's worth checking out sites like (the normie-friendly) Catholic Answers.
 

Luna Novem

Kingfisher
Woman
Catholic
Just FYI...most parishes these days offer low-gluten hosts. The gluten count is actually so low that they would legally qualify as gluten-free, but Church teaching dictates that they contain at least some gluten (in the ppm). But if wheat starch is an issue, I'm not sure how that works...
If you talk to a priest before Mass, they will likely show you to the sacristy, where you can place a low-gluten host into a pyx. You then place that to a place near the altar before Mass (with the chalices and such), and the priest will include that with the consecration. You then receive the Eucharist from the pyx.

Just quoting for emphasis. This is HUGE, and the VAST majority of non-Catholics do not understand this. I grew up very anti-Catholic, and we were taught that Catholics believe that everything that comes out of the pope's mouth is infallible, that Catholics worship Mary, etc. Luna, if there are any major sticking points that you have with Catholic dogma, there's a high chance you were not properly catechized on that issue or that the sticking point itself is based on a lie that has been promulgated regarding the Church (or there's always the chance it's just plain-old unwillingness to mentally assent). Catholic teaching is incredibly cohesive. It's worth checking out sites like (the normie-friendly) Catholic Answers.
Yeah, as a kid I quit attending Mass around age 14, so I was never confirmed. I know I have to have missed a lot.
The wheat thing is complicated... it isn't a gluten allergy. It's a delayed reaction to the wheat protein itself. My disease is called eosinophilic esophagitis (EoE); it leads to a narrowing of the esophagus and a need for dilation. Last summer I lost 16 lbs in two weeks while living on chicken broth and gatorade, waiting to be dilated because I hadn't taken my allergies seriously enough. There's much more I could say, but this is a Roosh forum, not an EoE forum! But anyway, I can't do the gluten-free option.I
I will spend some time checking out Catholic Answers.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Catholic
Gold Member
Yeah, as a kid I quit attending Mass around age 14, so I was never confirmed.
Praise God - now you have an excuse to meet with a priest and jumpstart your catechesis. Find a quality Latin Mass parish near you, email the priest and tell him you'd like to get confirmed, and he'll take care of the rest.
 

Luna Novem

Kingfisher
Woman
Catholic
Praise God - now you have an excuse to meet with a priest and jumpstart your catechesis. Find a quality Latin Mass parish near you, email the priest and tell him you'd like to get confirmed, and he'll take care of the rest.
What are your honest thoughts on going through a parish that is not Latin Mass? We are talking a 60-second drive one way vs. a 30-minute drive... big difference for a busy wife and mom.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Catholic
Gold Member
What are your honest thoughts on going through a parish that is not Latin Mass? We are talking a 60-second drive one way vs. a 30-minute drive... big difference for a busy wife and mom.
All things considered equal, 30 minutes is worth it. Going to a Novus Ordo parish is not the end of the world, but I have no idea how orthodox yours is, so it's hard to say. When you start balking about the 30 minute drive, consider that many people drive 2-3 hours (weekly) to make it to a Latin Mass.
 

Luna Novem

Kingfisher
Woman
Catholic
All things considered equal, 30 minutes is worth it. Going to a Novus Ordo parish is not the end of the world, but I have no idea how orthodox yours is, so it's hard to say. When you start balking about the 30 minute drive, consider that many people drive 2-3 hours (weekly) to make it to a Latin Mass.
I'm looking into one near me now. There are early Masses, which is nice. I have always wanted to go to one, to be honest.
 

OrthoLeaf

Sparrow
Orthodox
Remember this is only under a very specific set of circumstances - when the Pope speaks "Ex Catedra". It hasn't been done since 1950 when the assumption of Mary was added to the Dogma of the Catholic Church.

As a lay Catholic, I found this a stumbling block years back, and I have seen people bring it up. It goes with the doctrine that the "gates of hell will not prevail", this doesn't mean that the Church itself or Pope can't face heretical ideas, or corruption, but that the dogma moral teaching can be infallible when announced in such a way (Ex Cathedra).
This is actually a Trad myth and is in contradiction to Catholic dogma. NOTE: Long post incoming, read the bolded and italic for the TL;DR version.

(Source: https://patristica.net/denzinger/)

1578 - The prescription of the synod about the order of transacting business in the conferences, in which, after it prefaced "in every article that which pertains to faith and to the essence of religion must be distinguished from that which is proper to discipline," it adds, "in this itself (discipline) there is to be distinguished what is necessary or useful to retain the faithful in spirit, from that which is useless or too burdensome for the liberty of the sons of the new Covenant to endure, but more so, from that which is dangerous or harmful, namely, leading to superstition and materialism"; in so far as by the generality of the words it includes and submits to a prescribed examination even the discipline established and approved by the Church, as if the Church which is ruled by the Spirit of God could have established discipline which is not only useless and burdensome for Christian liberty to endure, but which is even dangerous and harmful and leading to superstition and materialism,--false, rash, scandalous, dangerous, offensive to pious ears, injurious to the Church and to the Spirit of God by whom it is guided, at least erroneous.

1683 - While, in truth, We laud these men with due praise because they professed the truth which necessarily arises from their obligation to the Catholic faith, We wish to persuade Ourselves that they did not wish to confine the obligation, by which Catholic teachers and writers are absolutely bound, only to those decrees which are set forth by the infallible judgment of the Church as dogmas of faith to be believed by all [see n. 1722]. And We persuade Ourselves, also, that they did not wish to declare that that perfect adhesion to revealed truths, which they recognized as absolutely necessary to attain true progress in the sciences and to refute errors, could be obtained if faith and obedience were given only to the dogmas expressly defined by the Church. For, even if it were a matter concerning that subjection which is to be manifested by an act of divine faith, nevertheless, it would not have to be limited to those matters which have been defined by express decrees of the ecumenical Councils, or of the Roman Pontiffs and of this See, but would have to be extended also to those matters which are handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching power of the whole Church spread throughout the world, and therefore, by universal and common consent are held by Catholic theologians to belong to faith.

1698 - Nor do they blush to profess openly and publicly the axiom and principle of heretics from which so many perverse opinions and errors arise. For they repeatedly say that "the ecclesiastical power is not by divine right distinct from and independent of the civil power, and that the distinction and independence of the same could not be preserved without the essential rights of the civil power being invaded and usurped by the Church." And, we cannot pass over in silence the boldness of those who "not enduring sound doctrine" [2 Tim. 4:3], contend that "without sin and with no loss of Catholic profession, one can withhold assent and obedience to those judgments and decrees of the Apostolic See, whose object is declared to relate to the general good of the Church and its rights and discipline, provided it does not touch dogmas of faith or morals." There is no one who does not see and understand clearly and openly how opposed this is to the Catholic dogma of the plenary power divinely bestowed on the Roman Pontiff by Christ the Lord Himself of feeding, ruling, and governing the universal Church.

1792 - [The object of faith] .Further, by divine and Catholic faith, all those things must be believed which are contained in the written word of God and in tradition, and those which are proposed by the Church, either in a solemn pronouncement or in her ordinary and universal teaching power, to be believed as divinely revealed.

- Vatican II is a binding and infallible ecumenical council, proclaimed with magisterial authority.


"And today, there is still work to be done in this direction, in particular by rediscovering the reasons for the decisions taken with regard to the liturgical reform, by overcoming unfounded and superficial readings, a partial reception, and practices that disfigure it. It is not a matter of rethinking the reform by reviewing the choices in its regard, but of knowing better the underlying reasons, through historical documentation, as well as of internalizing its inspirational principles and of observing the discipline that governs it. After this magisterium, after this long journey, We can affirm with certainty and with magisterial authority that the liturgical reform is irreversible."
 
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