Questions about Orthodoxy

[OrthoLeaf]

Orthodoxy is the one branch of Christianity that I don't know much about. What are some good books or websites to begin learning? Also, for those who are Orthodox, would you say it's a fair assessment that it is the branch least tainted by humanity? Does that make sense? In order to be Catholic, one must believe in the infallibility of the Pope... in order to be Protestant, one must accept man's teaching on various denominational doctrines. Is Orthodoxy freer of such things?

There's no real easy way to answer this. Orthodoxy is a bottomless well of wisdom and beauty and it ultimately depends on what you're looking for. Dogmas? Christology? Ecclesiology? Spirituality? All would present you with different set of books to delve into. I compiled a large amount of free sources of audio for recent catechumen in the thread "Christmated into the Church, what to expect now?", there's a wealth of information there for you to check out. As for introductory books, I'm not all that sure as I skipped right past most of that and jumped into the writings of the saints and just began piecing the whole thing together. That said, I'll provide you a short(ish) list of books to consider, which cover a wide array of topics:

1. Rock and Sand - Fr. Josiah Trenham (An Orthodox perspective on Protestantism - a good place to start if that is your foundation)
a) Two Paths: Orthodoxy and Catholicism - Dr Michael Whelton (A good place to start if Catholicism is your foundation)
2. The Way of the Pilgrim - Unknown Author (Beautiful text on Orthodox Spirituality - Audiobook can be found on youtube)
3. Theosis: The True Purpose of Human Life - Archimandrite George of Mount Athos (Audiobook also found on youtube)
4. Byzantine Theology - John Meyendorff
5. The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church - Vladimir Lossky
6. On the Cosmic Mystery of Jesus Christ - St. Maximus the Confessor
7. Unseen Warfare - St. Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain
8. The Path to Salvation / The Spiritual Life - St. Theophan the Recluse
9. Deification of Man - Georgios Mantzaridis
10. Wisdom of the Desert: Sayings from the Desert Fathers - Thomas Merton
11. Wounded by Love - St. Porhpyrios
12. Saint Paisios of Mount Athos - Hieromonk Isaac

Outside of # 4 none of those are really "introductory" books to Orthodoxy, but honestly most of those types of books are kind of boring and can easily be replaced with various lecture series found online. The writings of the saints, however, kindles your heart and can bring you to tears, while also bestowing you with wisdom that the other books simply lack.

 

[DeDe]

What is the proper way to venerate the Icons (of Christ and the Theotokos) in the Church?

 

[DanielH]

What is the proper way to venerate the Icons (of Christ and the Theotokos) in the Church?

Cross yourself with your thumb, index, and middle finger touching and other two fingers flat in your palm - touching your head, then your belly, and then then your right, and left shoulder. Then bow down to kiss the icon on the hand or foot, not the face. You may also do a low bow, touching the ground before venerating the icon, or a full prostration. Full prostrations are unfortunately rare in my parish because we have many people and the pews make it impractical, but for prayers at home, incorporating some prostration into morning and evening prayers is a good thing (but don't prostrate on Sundays).

-Corrected post as per Aboulia's note below

 

[Aboulia]

DanielH's advice is good, just a slight correction, it's head then belly, then right to left shoulder, the motion makes a vertical line, followed by a horizontal line.

 

[DanielH]

DanielH's advice is good, just a slight correction, it's head then belly, then right to left shoulder, the motion makes a vertical line, followed by a horizontal line.

D'oh, thank you.

 

[Owlet]

At my church we cross ourselves three times as we enter, then take a candle or two and approach first the icon of the feast-day or the saint of the day if there is one placed in the centre, but otherwise go first to the icon of Christ, make the sign of the cross and a deep bow, repeat that and then kiss the icon, then step back a little and repeat the sign of the cross with a deep bow, and then light a candle and place it in the stand. Moving across with a small bow in front of the holy doors, behnd which is the altar, we then repeat the above for the icon of the Theotokos.
Other icons can then be venerated the same way if at a suitable height.

But other churches may differ. Just stand back and watch at first, until you feel confident to copy others. No-one will judge if you get muddled or take time to learn. All of us converts were unsure at first. The main thing is to be aware you are in a holy place, and act with deep reverence.

 

[messaggera]

Fasting
Is fast free this upcoming week : 5th to the 14th February 2023 ?

Is the Orthodox Church in America no longer part of the ROCOR?
There seems to be some slight differences in operations.
It is an important question for one who is interested in converting to the Orthodox Faith (personally, from Catholic Faith).
OCA seems to have been Americanised.

 

[rodion]

Fasting
Is fast free this upcoming week : 5th to the 14th February 2023 ?

Is the Orthodox Church in America no longer part of the ROCOR?
There seems to be some slight differences in operations.
It is an important question for one who is interested in converting to the Orthodox Faith (personally, from Catholic Faith).
OCA seems to have been Americanised.

The OCA I don’t think was ever part of ROCOR, it was the Moscow Patriarchate presence in America via the missionary work in Alaska, ROCOR came from those exiled and persecuted by the Bolsheviks. OCA was originally known as the Metropolia and there were some tensions due to them recognising the Russian church under Metropolitan Sergius. I could have some facts wrong.

OCA is canonical and, like all jurisdictions, you will be able to find things that scandalise you, and you’ll be able to find sincere, pious orthodoxy. While it is true that ROCOR often seem to hold the line against the world a little harder, both presently and historically, I don’t think it’s particularly productive to focus too much on such things.

Ecumenism is a serious heresy, but being “super-correct” as Fr. Seraphim Rose called it, could ultimately result in someone apostatising over the human weaknesses of a particular priest or parish. There is nothing wrong with wanting a less Americanised parish, and personally I would recommend a ROCOR parish if you can get to one, but I figured it’s worth giving the take of someone who had a “Hyperdox” phase

 

[OrthoSerb]

Fasting
Is fast free this upcoming week : 5th to the 14th February 2023 ?

Is the Orthodox Church in America no longer part of the ROCOR?
There seems to be some slight differences in operations.
It is an important question for one who is interested in converting to the Orthodox Faith (personally, from Catholic Faith).
OCA seems to have been Americanised.

Rodion is right, the OCA was never part of ROCOR. The OCA has its origins in the mission of the Russian Orthodox Church in Alaska. This grew into a full diocese that covered the whole of North America. It was given autonomy in 1924 and autocephaly in 1970. The OCA is on the new calendar whereas ROCOR is on the old calendar. That said the Great Fast and Pascha always coincide for both calendars. In both cases next week is fast free. The exact purpose and intention behind the fasting rules and the Gospel readings in the lead up to Lent are better summarised below. Today is the Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee.

Great Lent is the 40-day season of spiritual preparation that comes before the most important Feast of the Christian year, Holy Pascha (which means “Passover” and is commonly called “Easter”). It is the central part of a larger time of preparation called the Triodion season.

The Triodion begins ten weeks before Easter and is divided into three main parts: three Pre-Lenten weeks of preparing our hearts, the six weeks of Lent, and Holy Week. The main theme of the Triodion is repentance—mankind's return to God, our loving Father.

Before Great Lent begins, four Sunday lessons prepare us for the Fast. Humility is the theme of the first Sunday, called the Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee. The Lord's parable in Luke 18:10-14 teaches that fasting with pride is rejected by God. For this reason, there is no fasting the week following this Sunday. This includes no fasting on Wednesday and Friday that week (Wednesdays and Fridays are usually fast days throughout the year—Wednesday's Fast recalls the betrayal of Christ by Judas; Friday's Fast commemorates the Lord's Crucifixion).

Repentance is the theme of the second Pre-Lenten Sunday, called the Sunday of the Prodigal Son. Before we can return to God, we need to recognize that we are far from God because of sin. Like the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32), we are in a self-imposed exile. Will we come to our senses as did the Prodigal Son and return to our Father?

The next Sunday is called both Meatfare Sunday and the Sunday of the Last Judgment. The second name refers to the Gospel lesson (Matthew 25:31-4 6) read on this day. The Lord tells us we will be judged at the end according to the love we have shown for our brother. “I was hungry..thirsty..naked...a stranger...in prison...sick... Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine you did for Me". Almsgiving goes hand in hand with fasting. This Sunday is called Meatfare because it is the last day meat, fish or poultry is eaten before Easter, for those keeping the Lenten Fast.

The last Pre-Lenten Sunday is called both Cheesefare Sunday and the Sunday of Forgiveness. This is the last day dairy products are eaten before the Fast. The Gospel lesson (Matthew 6:14-21) read on this day tells us that our fast must not be hypocritical or “for show.” Our work and our appearance are to continue as usual and our extra efforts are to be known only by God. The Gospel reading also reminds us that God the Father will forgive us in the same manner as we forgive our brother. With this promise of forgiveness, Great Lent begins on the next day, which is called Clean Monday.

Fasting and Great Lent

The word “fast” means not eating all or certain foods. As Orthodox Faithful, we can fast completely at certain times of great importance, and especially each time before receiving Holy Communion. Usually, fasting means limiting the number of meals and/or the type of food eaten. The purpose of...

orthochristian.com

 

[DeDe]

Fasting
Is fast free this upcoming week : 5th to the 14th February 2023 ?

Is the Orthodox Church in America no longer part of the ROCOR?
There seems to be some slight differences in operations.
It is an important question for one who is interested in converting to the Orthodox Faith (personally, from Catholic Faith).
OCA seems to have been Americanised.

I attend an OCA church and they're very conservative. Our priest is a convert from Anglicanism and he estimates about 80% of our parish being converts (from various backgrounds.) This leads to a deep connection with the priest and most of the parish that sometimes isn't found between cradle and convert Orthodox (but the deepest and most important connection is made by being siblings in Christ.) You can also sense great zeal in this parish. I know some people have concerns over OCA not being as conservative as ROCOR, but that shouldn't stop you from attending a service at one
God be with you ☦

 

[DanielH]

I'm in the OCA. I'm quite happy with my jurisdiction. My archbishop was against the jab and my parish was a haven when other parishes were closed or made you register your name for contact tracing...

My Godmother made a good point to me today. We need to make our homes into the Church. Each family or household needs to be a little church, and we need to have spiritual food every day, multiple times a day, so we do not come to church “thirsty.” For example, if a man is hiking, and he comes across a polluted stream with dirty water, he will only be concerned if he did not bring enough water with him and was not taking sips along his way. Trying to get all of our spirituality on Sunday is like relying on whatever stream you cross to be perfectly drinkable water. If we have good spiritual lives throughout the week, we won't be as scandalized by the bad things we see at church on Sunday.

 

[IconWriter]

My family left the OCA for ROCOR. Individual parishes can differ within any jurisdiction, but it is also important to look to the bishop to see what is being done or not done under his watch.
This coming week is a fast-free week. Enjoy!

 

[messaggera]

OCA seems to have been Americanised.

Seems OCA is progressing more towards entertaining homosexuality and abortions as acceptable? Not to bring up Ancient Faith, but it seems some of the content writers are not solid with homosexuality and abortions as sins, but will embrace feminism. Corrections welcomed please.

 

[messaggera]

Sincere question because this was a never asked of our family.

Do Orthodox Churches request all financial family information to be presented when becoming a member of the church?
Usually I try to provide the source, but as of recent the information making this request is no longer on the ROCOR church website.
Perhaps the the priest in charge is heavily engaging in the Orthosphere these days, and felt it was inappropriate to request when recruiting converts?

 

[DanielH]

Do Orthodox Churches request all financial family information to be presented when becoming a member of the church?

Never heard of this. But the priest should be aware of what one does for work and have a rough idea of what they're making and discussing what they can give to the Church. I've never told my priest what I make, but he gave me recommendations on how much to give, given my family's financial situation from some things I told him, including expenses we have and what my job is.

 

[Ah_Tibor]

Sincere question because this was a never asked of our family.

Do Orthodox Churches request all financial family information to be presented when becoming a member of the church?

No.

 

[messaggera]

I did not think so, and that is why it comes across as concerning.
It was never a ROCOR church that was ever being considered into membership; the information just happen to come across my desk.

 

[DanielH]

I did not think so, and that is why it comes across as concerning.
It was never a ROCOR church that was ever being considered into membership; the information just happen to come across my desk.

Where did you see this requested? On a parish website or ROCOR's main website? Or a seminary? How did it happen upon your desk?

 

[messaggera]

Where did you see this requested? On a parish website or ROCOR's main website? Or a seminary? How did it happen upon your desk?

Come across my desk - an idiom.

It was a parish website.
I was researching ROCOR churches some time ago prior to finding our community now.
The priest's name stuck out over some recent online controversy. Once I remembered the name I remembered the odd request for financial information (went back to notes). When I went back to the website the information was not easy to find.

 

[messaggera]

Serious scholarly questions.

• Should Orthodox scholars advocate the importance of Jewish apocalypticism and mysticism for understanding the conceptual Orthodox theology and liturgy roots?
• Without the understanding of Jewish sacerdotal and liturgical traditions, can Orthodox scholars completely comprehend [dogmatic] essence of patristic theology?

And yes, will continue the conversation with my priest.