Quiet Quitting / Decline in Worker Productivity

DanielH

Ostrich
Moderator
Orthodox
There is an increasingly large phenomenon of workers doing the bare minimum to remain employed. They will never stay late, volunteer for extra shifts, and drag their feet while on the job. Is it entitlement? Disenchantment with jobs they know they could have supported a family on decades ago, with which now they can only support an apartment and a dog or cat?

I've personally noticed it and whenever I am forced to collaborate with certain coworkers, it is almost more work to get them to work than the work I get out of them.

I'm interested to hear the opinions of people in different generations on this, both from workers, and employers or managers alike. How do you deal with this? Do you think it is justified? Should companies reevaluate how they compensate workers to be more merit based?


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bucky

Hummingbird
Other Christian
Since COVID I've noticed what seems to be a huge shift in the relationship between employer and employee, at least here in the US. I'm in IT, and before COVID almost all my jobs were very stressful. That is, constant pressure to produce and meet arbitrary stats in number of tickets closed, while also working on various "certs" and training on your own time, unpaid. There were also tons of procedures and processes to remember, and any slight error pertaining to them would often provoke a furious reaction from management, passive-aggressive threats from all levels of leadership that my job was in jeopardy, and sometimes attempts at public humiliation from my more Machiavellian coworkers. Basically, what's being referenced with the TPS reports reoccurring joke at the start of the movie Office Space, over and over.

I'm not really cut out for this type of environment, I just lack the courage or foolishness (depending on how you look at it) to try to support a family and kids by doing something else. These jobs may have made me miserable while at work and sometimes literally given me nightmares, but at least they paid well.

Since COVID, everything has changed for me. I'm 100% remote now, so I don't have to deal with the stress of hours of commuting on top of the awfulness of being in the office physically. My employers seem happy that I just show up to work on time and make a sincere effort to do my job. There's little talk of deadlines, and if I make a mistake, the supervisor who points it out will often say something like "well, maybe the policy was unclear, let's try to define a more specific procedure" whereas before it was always exclusively my fault. If they need me to stay late or do weekend work, they're very careful to insist that I take comp time during regular work hours to make up for it. My program manager even recently "pinged" me and basically admitted that they're losing people at an alarming rate and want to make sure I'm happy so that I don't leave too.

I love all of this, how the balance of power has shifted in my favor as an employee and work has become much less stressful. I do notice what you say about minimum effort, that my coworkers often just ignore me when I ask them important questions, which leads to my eventually just guessing how to do tasks, sometimes correctly, sometimes not. I have certain coworkers who don't seem to do much work at all, but they're still around month after month because my company is afraid of losing people and hiring new people is very difficult. It's strange, and I wonder how long it can go on like this, but for now it's nice.
 

Sargon2112

Woodpecker
Protestant
I think I've ran into this recently while collaborating with someone from another department/discipline at work. I'm not 100 percent sure, but the guy's behavior fits the bill of qq. I'm 46 and an engineer. Oddly enough, the person I'm getting this from is older than me by 5 years or so. I need some simple graphics for a device enclosure and it's been like pulling teeth. It would take him all of an hour to do it and we're going on 3 months. I know the guy can knock it out and do a fine job at it, since we've worked together before.

I became an engineer by doing and learning more than required on the job, as the only formal education I have is a 2yr tech school degree in electronics, and a couple of certificates from my technician days. I didn't do the extra for promotion as much as I just want to understand what and why things are. I was surprised when I was offered a position in the engineering dept of the company I was working for (early 2010's) because, frankly, I had thought it wasn't in the cards without a 4yr degree, which I had decided I was not going to pursue.

However, I get it. Given how the atmospheres at most workplaces have changed over the last several years, and the decline of western culture in general, I get it.

Edit: what I neglected to say above was the the guy tells me he won't have a 'slot' to get to it any time soon since his schedule is all booked up. Being in that mode is what makes me think he's went the way of qq.
 
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Laus Deo

Woodpecker
Orthodox
This just another MSM psyop designed to do harm to small-medium businesses as part of the Great Reset: encourage staff at these SMEs to underperform by inducing peer-pressure -> the SME then fires those staff members who go on UBI -> the SMEs can't find enough high quality staff so are forced into bankruptcy -> their office space/land is hoovered up by Blackrock.

Meanwhile your big MNCs like Amazon etc. don't care about employee rights and work staff to the bone, monitoring output minute by minute.

I'm beyond seeing 'trends' like these as organically developing, with articles coincidentally sprouting up in every MSM publication across the world over the course of a few weeks. It's all designed to nudge people unwittingly towards the elites' plan.
 

RedLagoon

Kingfisher
Orthodox Inquirer
Depends if you're allowed to have a job if you're unvaxxed. Also; if you're "allowed" to have a job back would you stay back late or do the "extra mile"?

This is a boomer question obviously (not directed at you OP) as there are no more incentives to do so in modern times. I've actually felt it's quite the opposite as the hard worker has to fill in the hours for the lazy one without receiving any extra pay.

Better start your own tradie bussiness where you can decide the hours and rate.
 

bucky

Hummingbird
Other Christian
Depends if you're allowed to have a job if you're unvaxxed. Also; if you're "allowed" to have a job back would you stay back late or do the "extra mile"?

This is a boomer question obviously (not directed at you OP) as there are no more incentives to do so in modern times. I've actually felt it's quite the opposite as the hard worker has to fill in the hours for the lazy one without receiving any extra pay.

Better start your own tradie bussiness where you can decide the hours and rate.
Are there many jobs out there where they're still refusing to let the unvaxxed stay? I have this impression that outside of the medical field there aren't, and even medical jobs may be reconsidering because it's just hard to find employees nowadays.

At the height of the COVID silliness my company was talking about implementing a mandatory vax policy, largely because we're heavily federally regulated and the federal government was pushing for it hard. My plan was to keep working and drag my feet about getting vaccinated until they literally told me I had to chose between the jab and my job, and then probably put it in God's hands and quit. Our CEO, who I suspect is secretly based, also seemed to realize that a lot of us planned on leaving rather than taking the forced injection, so he also dragged his feet on actually implementing the policy.

Then the Biden vaccine mandates largely got defeated in federal courts and everyone soon forgot about COVID and moved on to caring about Ukraine instead. I'd assumed that something similar had happened at most other organizations that were considering actually firing productive people for not getting vaxxed.
 
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Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
It basically comes down to this: we have had increasing worker productivity for decades and inflation that crushed purchasing power that any change in wages or compensation weren't keeping up with. The culture on every level, if you have any sense, tries to take advantage of you and most (rightly) conclude that you are a sucker if you feel bad about making ... rational decisions. Men, who are far more productive than women, increasingly have made these rational decisions as the society doesn't care about them or rewarding them in any way.

I've answered this question before, and the basic response is that as employers or the system tries to extract more and more from you, you change your behavior to extract more value from your job. The only option over time was to do less and less since there was increasingly less incentive to do more and more. If they aren't going to pay you more or give you more respect or security, then it only stands to reason that you would lower stress at all costs for the same pay, as that is your last option left.
 

Yeagerist

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
Bro, this isn't just happening currently in the West, but also almost everywhere. And the Gen Z young people who reached adulthood are especially affected by this. This is the result of psychological pressure going overdrive from the modern industrial society and the mass hysteria caused by the scamdemic lockdowns.

From a certain perspective, it's interesting how there's the same social-psychological effects in American workplaces as there are in their Chinese and Japanese counterparts, despite differences in cultures and political trends. It's brought by the same secular corporate society that dehumanizes people and reduce them merely into robots or machines meant to fill some quota. The difference is whether the pressure's coming from Confucian family and social expectations or from the woke feminist LGBTQ supporting big businesses.

Ultimately, this is rooted in people not having (or even being aware of) any higher, spiritual purpose in life anymore, and their very existence reduced in a materialist approach of needing to make more money and edge out the competition.

There's a reason why the Sabbath was instituted, why man is meant to work for only six days and rest for the seventh, and why the Creator of the Sabbath said that it's made for the benefit of man. Learning about the "lying flat" and "quiet quitting" practices in China reminded me of this. Many young professionals there (and by that I mean college-educated intellectuals who have high-paying jobs, they're not minimum wage slaves) just decide to spend months unemployed to ease off the pressure of competition in the workplace. Deep down inside they know that there must be more to life than their careers and earning money. But when all they knew growing up was to "give glory" to the nation and esp. the Party by working hard, they suddenly have no idea how to cope with an inner existential conflict.

We at this forum should be glad that we have the hope and faith to hold unto these trying times
 

Sargon2112

Woodpecker
Protestant
Perhaps a precursor to qq was folks (me included) switching gears to not pursuing, or flat out turning down "promotions", which I noticed even before the wu flu play? I left the company I had worked my way up through, described in the post up-thread, about 2.5 years ago for the reasons cited above by @Blade Runner (stress, being squeezed for more and more). For years I travelled internationally a lot for them, for weeks at a time, but when I got married, I began to decline the travel, as it wasn't a specific requirement. When we became pregnant with my first daughter, I told the company that the international traveling was stopping altogether, and there would be no more overnight domestic traveling. The onsite stress and workload began to increase from there and I found myself being pushed more and more into non technical assignments. I was offered yet another "promotion" into management shortly after that, which I promptly but politely declined. I'm a technical guy. I am a designer, but I am also hands on due to my background as a tech. To make me a manager would have been a mistake for them and for me. We parted admirably about a year after that, as I began looking elsewhere. The CEO was guilting me a bit for leaving "after all they had done for me...", and the GM tried to give me a hard time about declining the management slot (it blew his mind that I didn't even want to discuss the management offer). I let them know that I had earned all they had paid me and that I considered us even, at best.

I now have far less stress, and I work remote two days per week, go in for three. I do design work & the documentation work that goes with it at home, and most of the hands on (prototype testing, repair, etc) on the other days.

On my next review, I intend to vye for more remote days rather than more $. I'm a gen x who was blessed enough to be able to ride what was left of the wave I guess. Maybe it was more like a pile than a wave lol, but I digress.

Like I said up thread, I get it when it comes to quiet quitting. Been on both sides.
 

Hermetic Seal

Pelican
Orthodox
Gold Member
“Quiet Quitting” is pure gaslighting, wherein being a workaholic is the default expected state and anything less is a plague on society. What a bunch of nonsense.

I never had any interest in overtime, promotions, “getting ahead,” or any of that. I show up, do my job, and go home. My life does not revolve around my work and I spend barely any time thinking about it outside work hours. I guess I’ve been “quiet quitting” for the past seven years I’ve been in IT. But my employer is happy with my work, I’m happy with my pay, so I don’t see what the problem is. I value my family and my personal life and interests - and my time - above “success.”
 

Maddox

Kingfisher
Protestant
...
I love all of this, how the balance of power has shifted in my favor as an employee and work has become much less stressful. I do notice what you say about minimum effort, that my coworkers often just ignore me when I ask them important questions, which leads to my eventually just guessing how to do tasks, sometimes correctly, sometimes not. I have certain coworkers who don't seem to do much work at all, but they're still around month after month because my company is afraid of losing people and hiring new people is very difficult. It's strange, and I wonder how long it can go on like this, but for now it's nice.

I'm Gen X and I work with Gen Z and Millenials. I've noticed that they don't seem to care too much about getting things done on time or going over details. They make dumb mistakes by not double-checking things and when I tell them about it, there is no urgency to correct it. I've even seen a younger manager display this lackadaisical attitude towards his employees. He never seems to push to get better results.

It seems like the ones who are interested in going the extra mile are the men and women who want to start their own businesses or have already done so.
 

Uprising

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
If your manager is a woman and your company is run by woke non-white groomers that want you to take the clot shot, you learn pretty quickly that the best strategy is to lay low and extract as much value from the position as possible while expending the least amount of labour. Anything else is masochistic.

When we return to a world run by Christian men, then we will return to a world of productivity in the workplace.
 

bacon

Ostrich
Gold Member
My take is that a drive to go above and beyond for your company is less of a priority now than it was in the past. There are probably a few reasons for this which is contributing to employees just doing just enough not to get fired.

-Less moving up the corporate ladder as loyalty to any company is now seen as naive when you can get fired/laid off for reasons beyond your control and getting increase wages is best achieved by jumping from one job to another.

-Work from home culture has made it easier to avoid looking busy and management has a harder time tracking how efficient or "wasteful" an employee is being with their time while on the clock.

-Diversity hiring/job promotions are demoralizing as merit based performance takes a back seat to being the right gender/ethnicity.

-General disillusionment among a sizeable percentage of under 40 year olds at how hard it will be to get out from under their student debt, achieve home ownership and the costs required to get married and start a family. Many don’t see a way to get ahead so that starts to affect motivation at work.

-Countless things to distract and entertain you that actually showing up and doing the work is harder than it was in the past because you had less temptations.
 

GigaBITE

Robin
Oriental Orthodox
Since COVID, everything has changed for me. I'm 100% remote now, so I don't have to deal with the stress of hours of commuting on top of the awfulness of being in the office physically. My employers seem happy that I just show up to work on time and make a sincere effort to do my job. There's little talk of deadlines, and if I make a mistake, the supervisor who points it out will often say something like "well, maybe the policy was unclear, let's try to define a more specific procedure" whereas before it was always exclusively my fault. If they need me to stay late or do weekend work, they're very careful to insist that I take comp time during regular work hours to make up for it. My program manager even recently "pinged" me and basically admitted that they're losing people at an alarming rate and want to make sure I'm happy so that I don't leave too.

I love all of this, how the balance of power has shifted in my favor as an employee and work has become much less stressful. I do notice what you say about minimum effort, that my coworkers often just ignore me when I ask them important questions, which leads to my eventually just guessing how to do tasks, sometimes correctly, sometimes not. I have certain coworkers who don't seem to do much work at all, but they're still around month after month because my company is afraid of losing people and hiring new people is very difficult. It's strange, and I wonder how long it can go on like this, but for now it's nice.
If your manager is a woman and your company is run by woke non-white groomers that want you to take the clot shot, you learn pretty quickly that the best strategy is to lay low and extract as much value from the position as possible while expending the least amount of labour. Anything else is masochistic.

When we return to a world run by Christian men, then we will return to a world of productivity in the workplace.
I work in tech too and I went from a lower-paying 100% remote job with a male manager to a higher-paying hybrid job with a female manager. The company is also much bigger (with all the baggage that comes with it), although they don't require you get the vaccine. My old boss was actually Russian (a fairly recent immigrant to the U.S.) and never really did anything "interactive" with the team other than ensure we were getting our work done. As long as we did our work, he was fine with us taking long breaks, going for a walk, signing off early for the day, etc. The female is far more into parties, social events, and tends to fill any "downtime" by having the team mingle like we are children (the youngest is in their mid-20s). Despite the pay, I find myself missing my old job.
 

Cynllo

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
The most vital piece of information I have computed on this topic is the claim made by low-work hour countries like Norway that,

They achieve the same level of productivity working about 30 hours a week, as they do working 40 hours a week.

I used to assume this was some socialist fluff, but it could actually be true.

If it is true, it doesn't mean that people are as productive working 30 hours as if they were working 40.

It means that the average worker racks up 10 hours per week of paid loafing.

If I worked 30 hours per week, I'd get about 50% of the work done.

The number of hours I work has no relation to productivity, other than one hour of work = a steady average of x, with little fluctuation.

There is no loafing, even if I happened to work 14 hours in a day.

As for the age gap. It doesn't surprise me.

Despite the deserved flack the boomer generation get, I am pretty sure the millennials and gen-zees are going to be a lot slacker in pulling the levers that turn the cogs of society.

I see the pink-hairs, trans-messes and incompetent AA hires floating up hierarchies.

I see people who look like clothes just fall on to them when they wake up emerging into higher and higher roles.

Also another little note is that in a recent Veritas drop, an Indian programmer that worked at Twitter, mentioned that he only does about two hours a day or week. But that he recently picked up the pace as he wanted a promotion. That gives an epic insight. That these huge multi-billion dollar cogs that are used to prop up Dark Brandon are being managed by people who barely work. And I bet that guy still has his job.
 

Cynllo

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
I've personally noticed it and whenever I am forced to collaborate with certain coworkers, it is almost more work to get them to work than the work I get out of them.

I'm interested to hear the opinions of people in different generations on this, both from workers, and employers or managers alike. How do you deal with this? Do you think it is justified? Should companies reevaluate how they compensate workers to be more merit based?

It would be against my constitution to loaf about at work. Being paid to do nothing is quite a serious abuse in my opinion. Anyone who does it is a sloth (sin).

In my first company, I used to sit next to people who were not working - in front of me - while I was essentially paying their wages, as the dev. director. I reported them to the managing director, as I didn't want to confront them. But they never stopped.

My experience in life is that there are only about 10% of people who have manners and decorum. And you don't really want to have much to do with the other 90%.

Currently I employee three people. One has just started, but he seems good. I asked for an MBTI test result, which was one of the things I liked about the guy I picked. Another complained about this. The reason I asked for the result is because the 10% of people who aren't loafers fall quiet neatly into a few groups.

These people all do the work. I don't have any issues with them. I trust them. I treat them well. If they have problems I am accommodating. I have bailed one of them out. I think this is part of the reason why they are good workers.

If I worked for a company, as mentioned in this thread, that make my life difficult, that are always down my throat and on my back, I'm not going to do anything more than what they pay me for. And I'm not going to be enthusiastic about the work.

If you treat your employees well, this 10% will perform for you.

I think it's the 90% that would probably end up doing almost nothing if they were not under a tyranny.
 

Hermetic Seal

Pelican
Orthodox
Gold Member
I can only speak for my IT job but I only ever work a few hours a day most of the time because there’s only that much actual work to do 95% of the time. I’d be happy to have enough programming to actually spend a whole day working on stuff but there are tons of pointless meetings and web console configuration overhead fluff clogging up the workflow instead of actual coding work. I wish I got paid programmer money to chop wood or something, it’d be a lot more satisfying.

Some people are just intrinsically lazy but it’s the very nature of IT and programming work at a big corporation for you to be “on the clock” for a lot longer than it actually takes to get work done. But working for a Fortune 500 ultra rich legacy corporation that parrots woke nonsense and doesn’t need to be efficient, I don’t exactly feel sorry for them. I just keep my head down and will milk the corporate cow to support my family as long as I can.
 
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