Quiet Quitting / Decline in Worker Productivity
- Thread starter DanielH
- Start date
Where you from Red??
Edit: An Aussie! They need you over there brother...I'll take some Land Cruiser parts tho if you wanna come visit haha
Im so sorry to hear about your struggles and betrayal in marriage (been there, I never lost a child, but I know the sting of betrayal and failure in marriage... its terrible, worse than cancer I'm sure....) I genuinely appreciate your situation. I went through a similar period with my 2 boys from my first marriage in an incredibly painful way until I got restitution in court. God worked a funny full circle for me on that, but not everyone is so fortunate.
I'll share my personal experience since you asked (Ive mentioned all this in other threads, but the below ties it into my business/work mentality so hopefully it answers your question):
No. I'd still be the same way.... But there is of course nuance and probably she allowed me to condense the timeline.
My drive has always been there. From Day 1. When I was in the Marines, it was how do I become the Commandant? When I got out, it was "How do I become the chainman of the board" Or now at my current company... "How Do I become the CEO " I have always had a Napoleon Complex/high insecurity/high neuroticism.... it's how I've always been wired as a product of my heredity + growing up in a restaurant.
As far as my old lady....she provided no direct impetus for further financial goals, but probably did help clarify... and help put the pieces together on the ex-wife/my first kids. If she weren't around I'd be the same way... but undoubtedly a less involved father.... As far as her, she was just happy with me just making enough so she doesn't have to work and can be at home. She got hurt in the line of duty on a call while we were dating, I told her once her workers comp was done she was done and said she couldn't go back to work again. We did the JP elopement, moved in together while we were working through Covid and were Catechumens and lived frugally for a year and a half to save up for a large house in the country. I'd have probably moved into the city into a flat next to a lot of young women and done the bachelor thing if God didn't introduce us.... but either way.... my head is still wired the same way: Make money, Be the boss.
To synthesize....If I hand't met her, I'd have worked the same amount, made the same decisions, gone to the same grad top tier grad school (1/2 through now) and probably been less involved with the kids, but be much more career driven. I'd have traveled more for work. My wife helps ground me when I get overly materialistic.... she helps me with my kids from my first marriage, as I've helped her with my stepkids. We've got our first of several ahead of us (God Willing). I think it clarified my 1 - 3 - 5 - 10 year goals. I listed them on a note and put them on the fridge right around the time we met and I had been out of the Marines about 6 months, So far I've hit my 1 and 3 year goals a year ahead of schedule.
That said, It's hard to discount the mental peace a quality woman gives you and the assurance that your sacrifices are worth it at home. With regard to work and my time, my wife occasionally says something to the effect of "You seem to be racing a clock only you can see"... Honestly I have no idea how to answer that other than to dismiss it and say "the goals are on the fridge, I'm just knocking them out at the pace I can" but I have no idea. Would I be as driven with out her, I'm sure. Would I have the plan together as well, yes. Would I be able to keep the family goals with out her... absolutely not.
Take that for what you will.... A virtuous wife was a gift from God, It helps strengthen your "Why" but if you dont have the drive... its all the same.
ETA....
I couldnt imagine trying to pass commentary on a situation like you're with a father who's list a kid. I've got a legit autistic kid from my first wife... non-verbal/its a mess... but losing a kid. I couldn't imagine. You' probably know all the following and I cant begin to give you advice.... but if you'd like to hear it, I'd look for another spouse and be open to dating. Make it work around your situation. But you sound like someone who needs another purpose to ignite YOUR drive. If you can do it... I think you should.
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Examples? Pretty much everyone I grew up with. The people with good jobs lived like the upper class does today. The people with below average jobs lived much the same, but with less frills. The same things, just lower quality.
A family of 6 shared one car and went on vacations annually because they worked low paying jobs? Today, a man working a low paid job, probably still lives with his parents, or in a very bad neighborhood, and would never dream of having kids or even a girlfriend. Well, unless they are gang members, and then they just don't care about anything else. The fact these people had children and vacations is light years ahead of many people working even middle class/high skill jobs of today. I'm in my mid 40's, worked 7 days a week, a high skill job, and I would never dream to have that many children, or even take them on a vacation. Heck, I don't even take vacations by myself.
My message for young men is simple... It doesn't matter who is in office, which party, they will lie about the economy. About how things are "getting better". About how there are "tons of opportunities". In fact, the GOP is trying to re-do Regan again, the problem is, things are so much worse today than in 1980, that it will never work. And these young men are atomized and lonely and they don't realize how much they are being lied to. They think they are the only ones not making it. The fact is young men, 99% are not making it and it is the fault of the Wall Street Elites and their puppet politicians. And what you do with that information is the next step, but the first step is to realize you are being lied to and you shouldn't bash your head against the wall based on those lies and take back what little you can.
The great thing is, and what makes me white pilled, is the number of young men who have either received this message and are spreading it or will very soon. The powers that be can't cover up the tower of lies they have built forever. And it appears that it is crumbling under its own weight, just like it always has for them. Saudi Arabia working with Iran was HUGE. I don't think we are far from a USD collapse and when that happens, the tower of lies will crumble down. And when it does, if enough men know the truth, the right people will be punished and things will reset to where they need to be.
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The funny thing about it, is I joined here almost 10 years ago, thinking I was about done with the stressful/long hours life and was getting ready to travel. And then the economy continued to get worse, and that optimism was not realized. Maybe the name change is a good idea, LOL.
IM3000
Kingfisher
It's pretty obvious that becoming wealthy in the West is much harder these days than 1-2 generations ago. For most regular people, being wealthy equates to owning your house. This is much more difficult to pull off these days, then it was just 20 years ago. This is a fact in most countries in the world.
In terms of income, I'm in the top 5% of my country and yet, it's completely out of the question for me to buy a property here. The prices are just too high. Naturally, this doesn't mean that you should give up and wallow about it, but I agree, let's be realistic about it.
I'm lucky to be as old as I am. I can go over a lot of reasons, but my house is the easiest and quickest.
I bought my house almost 20 years ago with not a single penny down, and despite this, my interest rate was a full 2% lower than that it would be today. Since then my house has doubled in value, wages have increased maybe 25% for an average worker.
To say things are better/easier today than previous generations is not even close to true. It isn't even close to true for me and 1/2 a generation ago.
Caduceus
Ostrich
Most of our parents and grandparents bought homes, put away savings, and sustained entire families with only the husband working. Today that's almost impossible.
Nowadays either your wife is working as well, or your getting extra money from parents or relatives to cover all costs... or if you're lucky you inherited a property from previous generations, that you live in, or rent, or sold off for extra cash.
Nowadays either your wife is working as well, or your getting extra money from parents or relatives to cover all costs... or if you're lucky you inherited a property from previous generations, that you live in, or rent, or sold off for extra cash.
If that's the case how are you supposedly unable to reach this security when you have been working hardcore (7 days a week for a garllion hours) a white collar job and you as you said yourself keep your expenses low and also don't have a family because apparently only millionaires are able to do so these days? My guess is that you actually do have the money saved up at this point but due to some of the psychological traits that you describe yourself as possessing (extreme risk aversion) you just can't stop yourself from continually putting in those hours.
If that's just the way you are - then it's your own personal issue. What I would take an issue with is your claim that you are just giving advice to the next generation. To me when you are giving "advice" it's your way of venting for the way your life has turned out - basically the equivalent of the older guy at the bar giving the younger guys there unsolicited advice that really is just the guy lamenting about what has gone wrong in his life and wanting a sympathetic ear to let him unload. I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone here ask for your advice on what do in life and frankly I don't see why anyone would since a big part of your posts don't actually have actionable advice beside getting right with God and I'm not sure you can even give specific advice on that since I don't think I've heard of you ever talking about having any sort of church or spiritual life.
Most of your posts speaks about things like Blackrock, Wall Street, BLM, antifa, Democrats, and things that an individual man by himself can't really change. I agree that those issues are a problem and it does negatively affect men who want to move forward in their life but if the context of you speaking about these matter is about giving young men life advice then just continually going on and on about those things isn't really advice but just black pilling these younger guys into thinking that they have any control over their lives and that they are doomed to be swept along with these societal changes no matter what actions they take in their personal lives.
A post you made previously in this thread is a good example of what I'm talking about
You talk about wanting to give young white men a specific path to follow but pretty much nothing in your post has any advice on what path to take except for the very last sentence and even then it isn't your own advice - it was something that get2choppaa who was writing posts with actual advice that you just jumped onto. If you look at the previous parts of your post it has all the typical parts that we find in your posts over and over again - Blackrock, and Wall Street, everything is stacked against you if you are white, vague talks about we need to take take things back from the elite without any plan about how to do so beside just making people more aware. I chose this post to dissect because it's pretty much the template for the type of post you've written over and over again through out your time here. I'm not sure how any of this really is going to be useful advice for any of the younger guys who are reading these sort of posts.
Forgive my bluntness, but I don’t believe you. Post after post you’re telling us you’ve been working around the clock for twenty years and just only need to accomplish X before you’ll finally have the luxury of not working so much. In reality, poster after poster has tried to show you why something you’ve said doesn’t quite line up with reality - and every single time, you dismiss and go back to the “whoa is me” routine.
So like I said, I don’t believe you. I think you’re addicted to working and wouldn’t know what to do with free time if you had the entire rest of your life available to do anything you claim to want instead. Your endless litany of excuses and “if only’s” doesn’t portray the image of a man who actually wants to be in a different situation. I think on some level you love your “busyness” and also love feeling sorry for yourself.
Pardon the tough love brother but someone had to say it.
Yes examples, give me an example of a common job that enabled someone to be "upper class" and have this easy life that you're speaking of. It doesn't exist, it's a made up fantasy for people to point to as to why life didn't turn out the way they wanted and someone else did better than they did. Yea maybe after 45 years at the plant working like dogs breaking their bodies then they had a lot to show for it in the end, is that something that you consider the easy life compared to today? I know just as many of those "easy life" boomers that ended up destitute with one foot in the grave as I do ones who did well.
There was no upper class back then, not like there is today it doesn't compare at all. This upper class you speak of lived in a dumpy house with shared bedrooms, shared dumpy cars, had dumpy appliances, hand me down clothes and took dumpy road trips. Upper class today means a 4000 sq ft house, a new luxury foreign suv for each driver, a newly remodeled house and a tropical vacation every other month in the newest designer garbage. Broke burnout losers drive new cars, take vacations and own things that these upper class people you speak of could have only dreamed of.
These "easy jobs" leading to this easy upper class life that you're referring to were actually grueling jobs at the plant working overtime since the day they got out of high school. As I said you could have done the same thing but you chose not to you looked down upon that life and job, you specifically chose the easy life hoping that a piece of paper from a university would lead to that.....it didn't, it was the wrong choice. Hindsight is 20/20 but you had the same opportunity as they did, you just didn't choose that.
You are specifically the age bracket that had the opportunity to do this "easy life" you are referring to so I don't know what you're lamenting exactly. If you're talking about people not having this opportunity today...no they don't but they have other new opportunities to do well. The environment has changed but the underlying concept hasn't, if you're smart and work hard you will do well. If you're not and you don't then you will live a garbage life....that's it.
This message that "oh you're too late life used to be good and now it's not so don't try", you need to stop relaying this message.
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You are moving the goal posts from "financially secure" to "upper class". My parents, my friends parents (boomers) were all financially secure but none of them were "upper class".
This was the normal life for American boomers, and the generations before them. They worked jobs, that would exist without fear of giant layoffs or being replaced by foreign labor, and they raised their kids with comfort. It is funny just watching TV shows from that era, what was normal back then is beyond reach today.
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I hate working, I hate my job, it drives me into a complete darkness that is hard to explain. That is why I work around the clock, to get away from it. A few million isn't going to escape the realities of the bad US economy. A few million + social security at 68, sure. But not in your 40's.
Say you have $3 million and average 6% a year. That is $180,000 a year income. Take out taxes, take out expenses, take out child healthcare, take out a safe neighborhood home (which is becoming astronomical), and you can get by with a middle class life.
Try that on $1 million a year and it isn't going to happen. $2 million is getting by depending on where you live, hope the USD doesn't collapse because that will be an overnight 30 to 40% hit.
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You hate working so you work to get away from working? How does this even make sense?
You have to have enough resources to not work at some point in your life. If you want to wait for social security and to get by on that, that is certainly your choice. I wouldn't want to live like that, especially not as much as crime is spreading.
No no no, you said "upper class". You specifically said "people with good jobs lived like the upper class does today" which is absolutely not true, go read it yourself.
TV shows are not real, you think Al Bundy was really raising a family on his shoe salesman job.....come on.
Let me ask you something, why didn't you go to work at the plant after high school? Why did you instead decide to go to college? By now you would have had a crazy union job with crazy union pay and stability, crazy union benefits and coming up to a crazy union pension.
You didn't go work at the plant because that job was looked down upon, that was the hard life and you wanted the good life of getting a college degree and working a white collar job. So now that it turned out that perhaps it was the wrong choice you want to turn around and say someone had it easier than you? Nobody had it easier you just made a mistake and now you refuse to adapt. It's the same concept today, all those reddit losers who partied their way through college with crippling nonsensical debt to get a worthless degree who are stuck in a dead end cubicle job because they thought they were too good to learn a trade want to complain while they get high all day and play video games.
Societally and socially yes absolutely things were better in the past nobody will ever argue that, but financially and economically no I'm sorry life is easier than ever.
It's not too late to do anything, you're specifically choosing the life you live. You have no right whatsoever to look into the past and say someone had it better than you.
So why are you wasting your time doing something that you not only hate but isn't going to accomplish your goals?
TV shows are a reflection of culture and the reality many face. The way life is depicted in the 1980's v. today is more than enough to know how much better things were.
By the time I got out of high school, NAFTA sucked most of the factory jobs out of the country. It wasn't an option for me.
My parents, my friends parents, all worked fewer hours than me, and most others I know, and had far more to show for it. Are you trying to deny that life has gotten worse since the 1980's?
I'm not even going to entertain the notion that TV shows reflect reality, sorry.
So you're saying you went to college instead of working at the plant because it wasn't an option? It wasn't because the plant was seen as the hard life and college was the good life? You don't have to prove anything to me but at least be honest with yourself.
No I'm not denying that things were better back then in many aspects, what I'm denying is this idea that they lived easier lives or that there isn't opportunity now. They had simpler lives sure but that's not the same thing as easier and the opportunities may be different now but they are definitely still out there. But you have to actually go for it, not sit there with your life that you hate and give up because things aren't as good as they used to be.
No, it was because there were no plants. By the time I was out of high school, most factory jobs were shipped overseas.
The boomers lived much easier lives, because things were many times better. There is still opportunity, but they are harder to find, and will continue to get tougher to find until they disappear.