Quiet Quitting / Decline in Worker Productivity

[FrancisK]

No, it was because there were no plants. By the time I was out of high school, most factory jobs were shipped overseas.

The boomers lived much easier lives, because things were many times better. There is still opportunity, but they are harder to find, and will continue to get tougher to find until they disappear.

Come on stop saying that garbage, stop blaming other factors because you made poor decisions and refused to adapt....NAFTA, blackrock, wall street, the elites, boomers....all these things you keep rattling off had absolutely nothing to do with the decisions you made in life. My family owned a store across the street from the ford plant and later one down the street from the GM plant along with all the dozens of other supporting plants for them. They were always hiring back then, there were always new employees coming in, new names on the checks we cashed, new customers. Even when they stopped hiring in mass in the late 90's they still hired new batches of guys every now and then.

You went to college instead of going to work because you wanted a white collar life, plain and simple. Same reason I went to college but I realized at the end that I had wasted my time and I adapted, I won't bore you with the story.

Nothing is drying up there is more opportunity than ever it's just different opportunities now that's it. I've seen more young people make their bones in the past 5 years than I have ever seen in my entire life combined. You're not even black pilling you are poison pilling.

 

[It_is_my_time]

Come on stop saying that garbage, stop blaming other factors because you made poor decisions and refused to adapt....NAFTA, blackrock, wall street, the elites, boomers....all these things you keep rattling off had absolutely nothing to do with the decisions you made in life. My family owned a store across the street from the ford plant and later one down the street from the GM plant along with all the dozens of other supporting plants for them. They were always hiring back then, there were always new employees coming in, new names on the checks we cashed, new customers. Even when they stopped hiring in mass in the late 90's they still hired new batches of guys every now and then.

You went to college instead of going to work because you wanted a white collar life, plain and simple. Same reason I went to college but I realized at the end that I had wasted my time and I adapted, I won't bore you with the story.

Nothing is drying up there is more opportunity than ever it's just different opportunities now that's it. I've seen more young people make their bones in the past 5 years than I have ever seen in my entire life combined. You're not even black pilling you are poison pilling.

I haven't made any "bad decisions". I worked hard, got a college degree in a top field, got a job in that field, have worked above and beyond for over two decades. I have worked weekends on top of it all. I have invested very wisely. I didn't chase women, I didn't get addicted to anything (drugs, sugar, alcohol, porn, etc.). I have eaten healthy and worked out very intensely the entire time. I have actually made a lot of very good decisions.

I guess we can leave it at we agree to disagree. We will find out who was right. I believe that not only are things drastically worse than 40 years ago, but they will only continue to get worse, because the real people in power dictate just that. You disagree with this sentiment, and I think we leave it right here and wait to see what comes.

 

[FrancisK]

I haven't made any "bad decisions". I worked hard, got a college degree in a top field, got a job in that field, have worked above and beyond for over two decades. I have worked weekends on top of it all. I have invested very wisely. I didn't chase women, I didn't get addicted to anything (drugs, sugar, alcohol, porn, etc.). I have eaten healthy and worked out very intensely the entire time. I have actually made a lot of very good decisions.

I guess we can leave it at we agree to disagree. We will find out who was right. I believe that not only are things drastically worse than 40 years ago, but they will only continue to get worse, because the real people in power dictate just that. You disagree with this sentiment, and I think we leave it right here and wait to see what comes.

Okay that all sounds great, so what is so terrible about your life?!


I don't necessarily disagree with that, I disagree with the idea that things are just hopeless and we should give up which is the attitude that you portray with your words and sentiments.

 

[It_is_my_time]

For those curious, or unaware, this is what I mean by the collapse of the USD. If the USD ceases to be the world reserve currency, it will drop in value. Many estimate between 20 and 40% overnight. That means your $3 gallon of gas will be $4 or $5 the next day, no coming down from it, and everything else matching accordingly.

 

[DanielH]

For those curious, or unaware, this is what I mean by the collapse of the USD. If the USD ceases to be the world reserve currency, it will drop in value. Many estimate between 20 and 40% overnight. That means your $3 gallon of gas will be $4 or $5 the next day, no coming down from it, and everything else matching accordingly.

I'm fairly unconcerned by this. It would be difficult, but it wouldn't be as difficult as Covid, and since it would be a difficulty mostly localized in the US (some other places will feel it in our sphere), very many immigrants will return to their home countries, and housing will either be more affordable, or stay at the current "real" price, but there will be less crime long term, and we can actually start rebuilding the country.

That's if the US doesn't outright force WW3 in a last ditch effort to maintain its status by tactical nuking one of our sportsball games or sinking one of our aircraft carriers.

 

[It_is_my_time]

I'm fairly unconcerned by this. It would be difficult, but it wouldn't be as difficult as Covid, and since it would be a difficulty mostly localized in the US (some other places will feel it in our sphere), very many immigrants will return to their home countries, and housing will either be more affordable, or stay at the current "real" price, but there will be less crime, and we can actually start rebuilding the country.

That's if the US doesn't outright force WW3 in a last ditch effort to maintain its status by tactical nuking one of our sportsball games or sinking one of our aircraft carriers.

I think the elites planned to jump from the USA to China, but Xi Jinping threw a monkey wrench into that plan. Now they are trying to keep the USD propped up as long as possible, until they can make a move to another country and start over their exploits again.

The problem for them is Saudi Arabia moving to the Russia-China-Iran side. That was a big blow for the USD. Their hope is they can keep the Chinese Yaun from becoming the new world reserve currency and hold off for a global one world currency. But Putin and Jinping seem to be working together to collapse the USD and so far they appear to be winning that war.

 

[Steady Hands]

I hate working, I hate my job, it drives me into a complete darkness that is hard to explain. That is why I work around the clock, to get away from it. A few million isn't going to escape the realities of the bad US economy. A few million + social security at 68, sure. But not in your 40's.

Say you have $3 million and average 6% a year. That is $180,000 a year income. Take out taxes, take out expenses, take out child healthcare, take out a safe neighborhood home (which is becoming astronomical), and you can get by with a middle class life.

Try that on $1 million a year and it isn't going to happen. $2 million is getting by depending on where you live, hope the USD doesn't collapse because that will be an overnight 30 to 40% hit.

A few million and your own home isn't enough... yep you need at least 10 million and 5 homes across 3 states MINIMUM to escape the incoming disaster when the USD goes to zero which is any day now!

Even with a house, gold, bitcoin and bonds, you can't be too careful. I wear a mask while driving too.

Because the world will end soon, I better not try anything risky like making conversation with a woman.

There is no way this online persona reflects the actual thoughts of a real person. This has gotta be a master troll op. Right?!

 

[It_is_my_time]

A few million and your own home isn't enough... yep you need at least 10 million and 5 homes across 3 states MINIMUM to escape the incoming disaster when the USD goes to zero which is any day now!

Even with a house, gold, bitcoin and bonds, you can't be too careful. I wear a mask while driving too.

Because the world will end soon, I better not try anything risky like making conversation with a woman.

There is no way this online persona reflects the actual thoughts of a real person. This has gotta be a master troll op. Right?!

Why build a strawman to knock it down? This is a very important discussion. Unless you think we are one election away from fixing the economy.

 

[get2choppaaa]

Why build a strawman to knock it down? This is a very important discussion. Unless you think we are one election away from fixing the economy.

Forgive me, but here it is:

Except you aren't offering anything of meaning to people here other than complaining about how you've not gotten the desired endstate you think you deserve based off the labors you've engaged in.

Lets accept you premise.... SO WHAT? What are we to do? Stop having kids, stop trying? There is nothing actionable here other than you have effective squandered your own oppotunities and are miserable and in your mid 40's and still not meaningfully closer than anyone else who HAS a family now.

Sorry, but..... This is all garbage belly aching.

Yes It is important. Lets give young men meaningful advice that allows them to be successful. Like "get a trade" or "study XYZ field" or do "X thing helped me navigate Y situation, therefore X is your best choice ect...."

As I told my exwife from time to time "When I am telling you about something I am trying to work out, I need you to tell me something good or actionable....not a constant emo dump about what's wrong with XYZ situation".

Forgive me, but that's what you're doing. I've made this comments with you time and time again on the forum. I honestly have no idea what advice you're giving anyone here other than "Woe is me".

The sky is not falling... And there is no time but the present to get out there, marry and multiply. Guess what, when the hard times come....so what... the successful will survive inspite of the circumstance regardless of what's going on with Blackrock/CHYYYYYNA/ect ect ect. The rest will suffer. It is really more about the mentality of someone who is successful and the calculations they place on how to attain said success.

That all being said. Here's the thing:

You dont have a family because you can afford it. You have a family because that's the way a man leaves a legacy. You dont get married because you want comfort, you get married so that you can help work out your salvation with someone else while satisfying biological and human needs of sex as well as comfort and pair bonding. But there is never an opportune time to do this.

Like I"ve said, get off the internet and go breath in some fresh air.

I dont think you ever answered how much wealth you needed to attain to reach your threshold of starting a family or whatever. 3 million dollars? 5 million dollars? 10 million dollars?

Whatever that number is If you're not there yet after 20 years, UNLESS you're on the cusp of it.... why not spend the few years of your pre-50's youth while your testicles still produce viable sperm to find a woman and get married and do all those things you keep striving for.

Sorry bro, you're turning into a vampire on here with this constant kvetching and sucking us all into the oxygen deprived room.

 

[It_is_my_time]

Forgive me, but here it is:

Except you aren't offering anything of meaning to people here other than complaining about how you've not gotten the desired endstate you think you deserve based off the labors you've engaged in.

Lets accept you premise.... SO WHAT? What are we to do? Stop having kids, stop trying? There is nothing actionable here other than you have effective squandered your own oppotunities and are miserable and in your mid 40's and still not meaningfully closer than anyone else who HAS a family now.

Sorry, but..... This is all garbage belly aching.

Yes It is important. Lets give young men meaningful advice that allows them to be successful. Like "get a trade" or "study XYZ field" or do "X thing helped me navigate Y situation, therefore X is your best choice ect...."

As I told my exwife from time to time "When I am telling you about something I am trying to work out, I need you to tell me something good or actionable....not a constant emo dump about what's wrong with XYZ situation".

Forgive me, but that's what you're doing. I've made this comments with you time and time again on the forum. I honestly have no idea what advice you're giving anyone here other than "Woe is me".

The sky is not falling... And there is no time but the present to get out there, marry and multiply. Guess what, when the hard times come....so what... the successful will survive inspite of the circumstance regardless of what's going on with Blackrock/CHYYYYYNA/ect ect ect. The rest will suffer. It is really more about the mentality of someone who is successful and the calculations they place on how to attain said success.

That all being said. Here's the thing:

You dont have a family because you can afford it. You have a family because that's the way a man leaves a legacy. You dont get married because you want comfort, you get married so that you can help work out your salvation with someone else while satisfying biological and human needs of sex as well as comfort and pair bonding. But there is never an opportune time to do this.

Like I"ve said, get off the internet and go breath in some fresh air.

I dont think you ever answered how much wealth you needed to attain to reach your threshold of starting a family or whatever. 3 million dollars? 5 million dollars? 10 million dollars?

Whatever that number is If you're not there yet after 20 years, UNLESS you're on the cusp of it.... why not spend the few years of your pre-50's youth while your testicles still produce viable sperm to find a woman and get married and do all those things you keep striving for.

Sorry bro, you're turning into a vampire on here with this constant kvetching and sucking us all into the oxygen deprived room.

The sky is or is not falling, is simply an opinion. If you brought a man back to life, who was at his prime in the 1950's and showed him the USA today, he would certainly think the sky had fallen. The question isn't "has the sky fallen", it is "is there a standard of living low enough where we stop before the proverbial sky falling?". Personally, I do not believe there is. Reading on the early Bolshevik days and knowing we are repeating many of the same patterns, is telling that we have a long ways to still go.

The way I am wired, if I have kids and know they will have a terrible life, I feel I have failed. I don't care to just pass on my bloodlines, I care to pass on a better life. And I don't see a way of doing that without some pretty decent sized wealth. We are all different in these regards, but that is how I am wired.

I did answer as to my goal. I think the bare minimum for me is $3 million in net worth. At an average of 6% return, that should be enough to feel financially secure.

I personally believe I am giving young men a second thought of the battle that lays before them. It isn't hopeless at all, but it is going to be tough.

 

[get2choppaaa]

The sky is or is not falling, is simply an opinion. If you brought a man back to life, who was at his prime in the 1950's and showed him the USA today, he would certainly think the sky had fallen. The question isn't "has the sky fallen", it is "is there a standard of living low enough where we stop before the proverbial sky falling?". Personally, I do not believe there is. Reading on the early Bolshevik days and knowing we are repeating many of the same patterns, is telling that we have a long ways to still go.

The way I am wired, if I have kids and know they will have a terrible life, I feel I have failed. I don't care to just pass on my bloodlines, I care to pass on a better life. And I don't see a way of doing that without some pretty decent sized wealth. We are all different in these regards, but that is how I am wired.

I did answer as to my goal. I think the bare minimum for me is $3 million in net worth. At an average of 6% return, that should be enough to feel financially secure.

I personally believe I am giving young men a second thought of the battle that lays before them. It isn't hopeless at all, but it is going to be tough.

As I stated.... none of that helps a person in their early 20's now who's trying to figure out how to navigate the world. Saying it's hard is something they already know.

Them having a "terrible life" is better than them not living at all.

If you have champaigne tastes but a light beer budget, you just mediate your epectations. I'd rather show up to the party and drink crap beer than save up for a party I'm never going to go to out of fear of not having the perfect situation on.

There's things I did as a child that I cant afford to send my kids to do.... but my goals and my parents goals are different. My financial goals are to create generational wealth and to be very wealthy... my parents were just happy owning a restaurant, taking lots of really unique and wonderful vacations and living an upper middle class life.

I had my first kid in my early 20's in the Marines, didnt have 3 million to my name then (still dont now....) I'm not going to pay for their college, I'm not going to buy them expensive cars, and they are all required to get jobs once they get into high school if they want any assistance from me other than standard cost of living things you do to provide for your kids. That's going to force them to either get scholarships/learn a trade/or get a job and make it on their own. Thats just how it is. When you have 6 kids you're responsible for you have a different expectation of how to invest your money in them.

Back to the job situation....in corporate America or in life in general: There is no magic bullet for getting everything your heart desires and then some. Your circumstances in life a direct reflection of your choices and the strategy you implement.

The BEST advice I can give anyone is to find a mentor or someone who embodies what you want, and pick their brain as often as possible on as many things as you can. Just like in relationships, you only listen to folks who have the epitome of what you want... the same goes for a business mentor.

For me, it was finding a mentor who was an Aggie, Senior Military Officer, and then a senior executive at a very large company, then sits on multiple boards. I call this person weekly and even in their mid 80's they are more adept at asnwering things than nearly anyone I could pay to help me address problems, whether they are fiancial/personal....

Not everyone has that sort of person available that you'll meet in your parent's restuaruant when you're a kid and will mentor you for the next 20 years for free.... but they are out there for you to find.

For some young men who are wanting to work in a trade, "talk to this guy who owns his own machine shop and has been in business for 20 years" or "So and So is an electrician, or owns an AC repair company, get with them to learn how to both run a business AND some skills"

I said it in an earlier post....

What you are talking about ISNT NEW. Its the same thing that Shakespeare wrote about in King Lear (my favorite play) regarding the struggles between the youth and ambition and the old generation and their accrued wealth.

This phenomena is going to be in place FOREVER.

AND if you look at the aggregate over the last 100 years, there has been an increase in percapita wealth worldwide. While there are some really bad realities due to the Great Convergance, there are some good elements too. People who learn how to navigate these challenges effectively are going to be doing well and in demand. Those who are too stagnant or not able to pivot will just subsist.

 

[It_is_my_time]

As I stated.... none of that helps a person in their early 20's now who's trying to figure out how to navigate the world. Saying it's hard is something they already know.

Them having a "terrible life" is better than them not living at all.

If you have champaigne tastes but a light beer budget, you just mediate your epectations. I'd rather show up to the party and drink crap beer than save up for a party I'm never going to go to out of fear of not having the perfect situation on.

There's things I did as a child that I cant afford to send my kids to do.... but my goals and my parents goals are different. My financial goals are to create generational wealth and to be very wealthy... my parents were just happy owning a restaurant, taking lots of really unique and wonderful vacations and living an upper middle class life.

I had my first kid in my early 20's in the Marines, didnt have 3 million to my name then (still dont now....) I'm not going to pay for their college, I'm not going to buy them expensive cars, and they are all required to get jobs once they get into high school if they want any assistance from me other than standard cost of living things you do to provide for your kids. That's going to force them to either get scholarships/learn a trade/or get a job and make it on their own. Thats just how it is. When you have 6 kids you're responsible for you have a different expectation of how to invest your money in them.

Back to the job situation....in corporate America or in life in general: There is no magic bullet for getting everything your heart desires and then some. Your circumstances in life a direct reflection of your choices and the strategy you implement.

The BEST advice I can give anyone is to find a mentor or someone who embodies what you want, and pick their brain as often as possible on as many things as you can. Just like in relationships, you only listen to folks who have the epitome of what you want... the same goes for a business mentor.

For me, it was finding a mentor who was an Aggie, Senior Military Officer, and then a senior executive at a very large company, then sits on multiple boards. I call this person weekly and even in their mid 80's they are more adept at asnwering things than nearly anyone I could pay to help me address problems, whether they are fiancial/personal....

Not everyone has that sort of person available that you'll meet in your parent's restuaruant when you're a kid and will mentor you for the next 20 years for free.... but they are out there for you to find.

For some young men who are wanting to work in a trade, "talk to this guy who owns his own machine shop and has been in business for 20 years" or "So and So is an electrician, or owns an AC repair company, get with them to learn how to both run a business AND some skills"

I said it in an earlier post....

What you are talking about ISNT NEW. Its the same thing that Shakespeare wrote about in King Lear (my favorite play) regarding the struggles between the youth and ambition and the old generation and their accrued wealth.

This phenomena is going to be in place FOREVER.

AND if you look at the aggregate over the last 100 years, there has been an increase in percapita wealth worldwide. While there are some really bad realities due to the Great Convergance, there are some good elements too. People who learn how to navigate these challenges effectively are going to be doing well and in demand. Those who are too stagnant or not able to pivot will just subsist.

We definitely have different philosophies, which is fine. I would rather completely miss the party, than show up to one I don't enjoy, and it will extrapolate from that point forward in how we view things.

I'm not talking about the struggle that always existed in the west. We are way beyond that and still have a long ways to drop. I am not even that old and the drop in the quality of life and the lack of opportunities is dumbfounding to me.

We are coming from different beliefs and one of us will be proven right and probably by 2030. I am putting a lot behind what I believe to be true, so I think I will be right. We will see. Arguing about it any further isn't doing you or myself for this forum any good. I will say, I hope I am wrong, I just firmly believe that I am right.

 

[Wutang]

If it comes down to different philosophies and beliefs, then I would once again suggest that a lot of things you write on this post aren't actually the reality for most people in US society but rather just a reflection of your own life and personality type. I noticed a lot of times when you are pressed on some doomer point you are making about society you'll eventually just fall back on "well this is just the way I was wired". On page 24 alone on this thread you've said both "We definitely have different philosophies, which is fine. I would rather completely miss the party, than show up to one I don't enjoy" and "The way I am wired, if I have kids and know they will have a terrible life, I feel I have failed. I don't care to just pass on my bloodlines, I care to pass on a better life. And I don't see a way of doing that without some pretty decent sized wealth. We are all different in these regards, but that is how I am wired." If this is the case I would suggest a lot of your doomerism is due to your own personality and therefore only applies to you specifically.

Other posters here agree with you that the things you state are problems are indeed serious problems but yet their response to it is completely different in that they are still having kids, thinking of ways to improve their career and money situations, and doing all the things you are claiming are impossible to do in today's environment. When these people talk about what steps they took to accomplish these goals, your responses have been typically been "well I just wouldn't be able to do it with the way I was wired". That's my exact point - this is a you problem rather then a societal problem.

 

[It_is_my_time]

If it comes down to different philosophies and beliefs, then I would once again suggest that a lot of things you write on this post aren't actually the reality for most people in US society but rather just a reflection of your own life and personality type. I noticed a lot of times when you are pressed on some doomer point you are making about society you'll eventually just fall back on "well this is just the way I was wired". On page 24 alone on this thread you've said both "We definitely have different philosophies, which is fine. I would rather completely miss the party, than show up to one I don't enjoy" and "The way I am wired, if I have kids and know they will have a terrible life, I feel I have failed. I don't care to just pass on my bloodlines, I care to pass on a better life. And I don't see a way of doing that without some pretty decent sized wealth. We are all different in these regards, but that is how I am wired." If this is the case I would suggest a lot of your doomerism is due to your own personality and therefore only applies to you specifically.

Other posters here agree with you that the things you state are problems are indeed serious problems but yet their response to it is completely different in that they are still having kids, thinking of ways to improve their career and money situations, and doing all the things you are claiming are impossible to do in today's environment. When these people talk about what steps they took to accomplish these goals, your responses have been typically been "well I just wouldn't be able to do it with the way I was wired". That's my exact point - this is a you problem rather then a societal problem.

You have a point, maybe it is just me.

I ask that you answer these questions. "Do you think things will get better or worse going forward?".

If worse, where do you see the bottom? If better, what could make this situation better?

 

[get2choppaaa]

You have a point, maybe it is just me.

I ask that you answer these questions. "Do you think things will get better or worse going forward?".

If worse, where do you see the bottom? If better, what could make this situation better?

WHAT DOES IT MATTER?

You continue to be fruitful and multiply as God commanded us to do. Fear and Despair are of the Devil.

 

[It_is_my_time]

x

 

[LothropStoddard]

Forgive me, but here it is:

Except you aren't offering anything of meaning to people here other than complaining about how you've not gotten the desired endstate you think you deserve based off the labors you've engaged in.

Lets accept you premise.... SO WHAT? What are we to do? Stop having kids, stop trying? There is nothing actionable here other than you have effective squandered your own oppotunities and are miserable and in your mid 40's and still not meaningfully closer than anyone else who HAS a family now.

Sorry, but..... This is all garbage belly aching.

Yes It is important. Lets give young men meaningful advice that allows them to be successful. Like "get a trade" or "study XYZ field" or do "X thing helped me navigate Y situation, therefore X is your best choice ect...."

As I told my exwife from time to time "When I am telling you about something I am trying to work out, I need you to tell me something good or actionable....not a constant emo dump about what's wrong with XYZ situation".

Forgive me, but that's what you're doing. I've made this comments with you time and time again on the forum. I honestly have no idea what advice you're giving anyone here other than "Woe is me".

The sky is not falling... And there is no time but the present to get out there, marry and multiply. Guess what, when the hard times come....so what... the successful will survive inspite of the circumstance regardless of what's going on with Blackrock/CHYYYYYNA/ect ect ect. The rest will suffer. It is really more about the mentality of someone who is successful and the calculations they place on how to attain said success.

That all being said. Here's the thing:

You dont have a family because you can afford it. You have a family because that's the way a man leaves a legacy. You dont get married because you want comfort, you get married so that you can help work out your salvation with someone else while satisfying biological and human needs of sex as well as comfort and pair bonding. But there is never an opportune time to do this.

Like I"ve said, get off the internet and go breath in some fresh air.

I dont think you ever answered how much wealth you needed to attain to reach your threshold of starting a family or whatever. 3 million dollars? 5 million dollars? 10 million dollars?

Whatever that number is If you're not there yet after 20 years, UNLESS you're on the cusp of it.... why not spend the few years of your pre-50's youth while your testicles still produce viable sperm to find a woman and get married and do all those things you keep striving for.

Sorry bro, you're turning into a vampire on here with this constant kvetching and sucking us all into the oxygen deprived room.

I like your message and way around the black pill - look for the actionable route to improve the situation.

I wallow in defeatism sometimes and the best word for that is "useless" with no actionable element

 

[Gimlet]

Quiet quitting was obviously a media scam to prepare people to get themselves laid off. If the MSM reports on a trend, it is meant to hurt you. Not much more to say on the topic.

 

[DanielH]

Quiet quitting was obviously a media scam to prepare people to get themselves laid off. If the MSM reports on a trend, it is meant to hurt you. Not much more to say on the topic.

In hindsight I do wonder if this phenomenon was ginned up to justify forcing people back into offices, which nationwide still aren't at half pre pandemic capacity.

 

[Gimlet]

In hindsight I do wonder if this phenomenon was ginned up to justify forcing people back into offices, which nationwide still aren't at half pre pandemic capacity.

Of course. And to make average Americans not feel bad about corporate layoffs. Why else did we see all the Day in the Life at work videos?

Note the lack of MSM concern about tech layoffs and amazon warehouse shutdowns (of right, they are saying much on that)