Real estate thread

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
Here's a good example of a flip:
Sold on 8/30/21 for $129,000 and now on 10/16/21 is listed for $269,900. That's a little over double the price for doing 6 weeks of renovations which includes, of course, vinyl flooring. Maybe it was a foreclosure. I predict it will sell within 3 weeks at close to asking price (I'll be surprised if it sells for under $250k). It is on 5 acres, at least.

How much renovations could he have done in 6 weeks? Probably not more than $50,000. He's looking at a huge profit for just a couple months of work.
The house is now under contract. Took only 5 days for it to sell.

Sub $300k houses seem to be going relatively quickly, regardless of their quality.
 

aeroektar

Pelican
Home prices are still high
The house is now under contract. Took only 5 days for it to sell.

Sub $300k houses seem to be going relatively quickly, regardless of their quality.
I'm looking in a similar part of the northeast, but instead of 2 hours outside of DC it's 2 hours outside of Boston. Everyone wants a decent 3 bedroom house on 5 acres. That's what I want. They get scooped up fast even up to 350k. 250k is a pipedream at this point. It's depressing.
 
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Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
Everyone wants a decent 3 bedroom house on 5 acres.
Hah that's what I want too.

That said, 3 hours outside of DC I can find closer to what I want at more reasonable price points, but for the sake of being closer to my parents, I will wait longer to see if there is relief in the market.

I wonder if there is a point that's a bit late to buy a house in terms of the time needed for a proper garden/chicken setup that can actually serve you in a crisis. Even if I have my rural home today, and the supply crisis continues, it would do me no good since I lack skills, and need time to learn.
 

Cavalier

Sparrow
Hah that's what I want too.

That said, 3 hours outside of DC I can find closer to what I want at more reasonable price points, but for the sake of being closer to my parents, I will wait longer to see if there is relief in the market.

I wonder if there is a point that's a bit late to buy a house in terms of the time needed for a proper garden/chicken setup that can actually serve you in a crisis. Even if I have my rural home today, and the supply crisis continues, it would do me no good since I lack skills, and need time to learn.
Chickens are pretty easy to raise. If you raise larger livestock there is a bit more trial and error. I found pigs to be fairly easy. Sheep and goats are harder. A beef steer takes you into advanced territory. The best type of garden is raised beds. I use landscape covers and it eliminates most of the weeds. I left NYC for Central NY 10 years ago. I got chickens my first year and they were easy. I ate a lot of chicken and eggs until I added other livestock. My first couple years of vegetable gardens were very poor yields until I discovered the advantage to raised beds. Lettuce and greens do real well hydroponically in the basement.
 

nordle

Pigeon
Hah that's what I want too.

That said, 3 hours outside of DC I can find closer to what I want at more reasonable price points, but for the sake of being closer to my parents, I will wait longer to see if there is relief in the market.

I wonder if there is a point that's a bit late to buy a house in terms of the time needed for a proper garden/chicken setup that can actually serve you in a crisis. Even if I have my rural home today, and the supply crisis continues, it would do me no good since I lack skills, and need time to learn.
I moved our family out to a rural place in Ireland by the seaside, 4 hours away from the capital city. We were city slickers, but in less than 3 months we were growing a bunch of food, etc. Real country living. But after a year, the biggest thing I hadn't anticipated was the amazing connections to rural neighbours. Unlike our soul-less life in the city center, we now know all of our neighbours. They regularly drop over with home grown food or plants.

We have totally free, off-market access to beef, firewood, seafood, fruit and many other local products. If the whole grid shuts down, I believe we would be grand. Our garden is fertilized with just seaweed, we have cucumbers, onions, garlic, various root and leafy vegetables, a full herb garden, a productive orchard, and so on. It is not difficult to learn, even if you can just set aside 2 days every week to develop your homestead.
Within our very small local area, we have access to honey, garlic, butter, fresh shellfish etc, potatoes, home made wine and herbs, nice flowers and more. It didn't take us long at all to meet and make connections and build trust with neighbours. We will never have to eat the bugs!
 

C-Note

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I'm not sure if this has been covered already in this thread, but one thing I wasn't aware of when I bought my first, and current, home is the issues that are involved with buying a house that is around 10-15 years old. When a house is that age, it means that all or most of the original furnishings, including roof, major appliances, water heater, air conditioner, water pressure regulator valve, weather proofing on the doors and windows, sliding doors, and faucets have not been replaced. Almost all of those things will start reaching the end of their service life after the 10-year mark and will need to be replaced. So, if you buy a 12-year-old house, for example, you'll need to factor in that you'll be spending around 20k or so over the next five years or so replacing all of those items.
 
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Papaya

Peacock
Gold Member
Here's a good example of a flip:
Sold on 8/30/21 for $129,000 and now on 10/16/21 is listed for $269,900. That's a little over double the price for doing 6 weeks of renovations which includes, of course, vinyl flooring. Maybe it was a foreclosure. I predict it will sell within 3 weeks at close to asking price (I'll be surprised if it sells for under $250k). It is on 5 acres, at least.

How much renovations could he have done in 6 weeks? Probably not more than $50,000. He's looking at a huge profit for just a couple months of work.
Part of the "problem" is that Americans have become largely "buyers" rather "doers". One of Lowe's early owners Carl Buchan recognized the trend quoin ed the term "buy it yourselfer" in the late 1950s. There's been such a cultural shift that the vast majority of Americans from Gen X on can do little beyond change a light bulb...Literally. Its just another symptom of the weakness baked in to modern culture

Flippers are just capitalizing on the markets needs created by this weakness.
 

Mike0060

Sparrow
Going to end up buying a small house in Canada next year depending what plays out with work and COVID.

Housing affordability is awful in Canada more than ever, but I refuse to settle for an apartment with exploding strata fees.

Guess we will end up in the prairies unless I can find a high paying job in the Maritimes.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
Part of the "problem" is that Americans have become largely "buyers" rather "doers". One of Lowe's early owners Carl Buchan recognized the trend quoin ed the term "buy it yourselfer" in the late 1950s. There's been such a cultural shift that the vast majority of Americans from Gen X on can do little beyond change a light bulb...Literally. Its just another symptom of the weakness baked in to modern culture

Flippers are just capitalizing on the markets needs created by this weakness.
Are you saying that we should buy a lot of land and build our own dwelling?
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Pelican
Orthodox
Part of the "problem" is that Americans have become largely "buyers" rather "doers". One of Lowe's early owners Carl Buchan recognized the trend quoin ed the term "buy it yourselfer" in the late 1950s. There's been such a cultural shift that the vast majority of Americans from Gen X on can do little beyond change a light bulb...Literally. Its just another symptom of the weakness baked in to modern culture

Flippers are just capitalizing on the markets needs created by this weakness.
Indeed.

Mortgages were unheard of until the 1950s. Until then, most people bought land in cash, and then slowly built houses over several years, saving here and there.

Once the house was built, it became a family home.
 

Charbel Makhlouf

Pigeon
Orthodox Catechumen
Because of my declining health and my desire to get my life in order should I be near the end, I asked my priest for advice on what I should be doing. (He's a ROCOR priest, as I'm working towards joining the Orthodox Church). He told me:
  • Move as close to the parish as you can, within walking distance ideally. (Right now it's a 2 hour trip, round drive)
  • Attend all the services you can.
  • Hold fast to your morning prayers, evening prayers and the Akathist to the Theotokos.
Anyway, I set up a real estate search and everything in the area under $200K is gone in 3 days. 75% of stuff under $300K is gone in 7 days. (The notable exception being a lovely home and bit of acreage next to a landfill that came to the area in 2012... pass).

Finally I give up on the dream of having something rural with land I can grow on. While that is my own dream (both for food, privacy and future family), my health is declining to such a degree that I can't take care of the land, I don't have any experience homesteading and my priest did tell me "walking distance ideally).

A little 1,600 sq foot townhouse pops up within 2 minutes walking distance from the Church. I pounce. I have my offer in within the first 24 hours. I offer 10K more than asking price. It still wasn't enough to land it. I'm not technically out of the running yet, but my goodness the market is crazy.
 

Charbel Makhlouf

Pigeon
Orthodox Catechumen
Are you saying that we should buy a lot of land and build our own dwelling?

It seems like Owen had some level of success with this? Didn't he call it Beartaria or something? I don't follow him closely anymore.

I wish there was a "bear" type community of Orthodox who could do stuff like that too. But I know the nature of any sort of online meetups/friendships/etc are going to suffer from trust issues (are these people feds?). And that's a totally valid concern in today's world.

I should probably just get better at making friends in real life who want to do cool stuff like buy land and build homesteads.
 

Papaya

Peacock
Gold Member
Are you saying that we should buy a lot of land and build our own dwelling?
No. Ground up is a steeper learning curve and very few can jump in to that deep end

For a novice Id recommend buying an existing "crappy" house in the best neighborhood you can afford. Then do as much of the improvement yourself as possible without hiring a general contractor.

And by DIY I dont necessarily mean you do everything yourself. Only what you can. For example I would hire a licensed electrician to do any electrical.

Some things you should hire a pro for

Foundation
Electrician
Heating / Air conditioning
Drywall finishing
Stairs
Cabinets

One good way to hire a pro is visit construction sites in the area and talk to workers actually doing the work. They will very often be willing to do side jobs for way cheaper than their company charges. Plus they all know someone who does the other trades. Jose the drywaller knows Jesus the concrete guy who knows Carlos the counter top fabricator...guaranteed

Some things even low skill person novice can do (in no particular order)

Demolition (Doing this well takes some experience but the learning curve is fast)
Irrigation
Landscaping
Insulation
Paint
Basic trim (casings and base)
Tile floors and back splashes


You gain equity two ways.

One is simply direct "sweat" equity. By cutting out the GC you save on all markups, management fees and profit. Thats short term and immediate

Long term you gain on the value the market creates. For example if you buy house that retails at $500k and that market value goes up 10% in a year thats another $50k you made on top of the "flippers profits" you kept for yourself. Time is on your side when the market is rising

Rinse and repeat in two years. Either sell and roll your gains into another property or borrow against your equity and use it to buy another one.
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
You gain equity two ways.

One is simply direct "sweat" equity. By cutting out the GC you save on all markups, management fees and profit. Thats short term and immediate

Long term you gain on the value the market creates. For example if you buy house that retails at $500k and that market value goes up 10% in a year thats another $50k you made on top of the "flippers profits" you kept for yourself. Time is on your side when the market is rising

Rinse and repeat in two years. Either sell and roll your gains into another property or borrow against your equity and use it to buy another one.

(3) equity gains also occur with the mortgage payment.
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
Well most mortgages are interest front loaded so unless youre paying more than the scheduled payment (and specifying that it goes towards the principle) then not really

I suppose on Short Term Flip - yes the mortgage doesn't pay down the equity.

But for any 5 year + hold it plays a definite role.
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
I think back to when I first bought a house in 2007. My assumption was that I would pay down the mortgage someday, and always be able to get the rental market value of that house. My assumption on appreciation was 2%, it was more of a kicker. The actual business was paying down my mortgage. Oh how things have changed. I think this is the clearest sign of speculation in the market today, but speculators sometimes are right, and I wonder if it is better to reach now and overpay than to be pushed out of the market later if inflation kicks in the way some believe it will. What we have seen in the last year is astounding.

I bought a duplex in a college town where I was living and working. It was explained to me that the duplex is the ideal purchase for a single guy. Essentially, you're able to buy a good size house, at a larger market value. The 2nd unit then pays for a good deal of your costs. It also operates as a tax shelter, the renovations you do are deductible against the house. Rules in Canada are a little different as interest on your mortgage isn't tax deductible (as in USA) unless it is a rental property, in which case you can claim the interest.

You buy the place, and live in one of the two units. If you are having a family in 5 years, or simply want to move out and buy another property, you can use the rental income from the tenants, to show the bank that the house cash flows, and isn't a drag allowing them to give you more credit. You can also refinance the house as the value rises, tapping into the equity you have paid down on the mortgage, plus additional equity if the value of the house goes up. In Canada where rental houses have capital gains tax, this is important. Essentially if someone has paid down most of their mortgage, they can get more out of the house by refinancing then they can by selling.

These refinance buyers in my mind are a huge part of what is pushing the price of real estate up, not people buying houses with their Jobs, but instead investors tapping into their equity gained due to the inflation of the house price and expanding their monopoly game.

I would recommend a duplex to those who are able to stretch their house price beyond their needs. So I might only need a 1 bedroom, but perhaps I'm looking for a three bedroom for the long term. Well in the medium term you can make some money and have someone else pay a good part of your mortgage. It's a hustle, and I also understand if someone wants to buy a place as their home and that's that.
 
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Eusebius Erasmus

Pelican
Orthodox
I think back to when I first bought a house in 2007. My assumption was that I would pay down the mortgage someday, and always be able to get the rental market value of that house. My assumption on appreciation was 2%, it was more of a kicker. The actual business was paying down my mortgage. Oh how things have changed. I think this is the clearest sign of speculation in the market today, but speculators sometimes are right, and I wonder if it is better to reach now and overpay than to be pushed out of the market later if inflation kicks in the way some believe it will. What we have seen in the last year is astounding.

I bought a duplex in a college town where I was living and working. It was explained to me that the duplex is the ideal purchase for a single guy. Essentially, you're able to buy a good size house, at a larger market value. The 2nd unit then pays for a good deal of your costs. It also operates as a tax shelter, the renovations you do are deductible against the house. Rules in Canada are a little different as interest on your mortgage isn't tax deductible (as in USA) unless it is a rental property, in which case you can claim the interest.

You buy the place, and live in one of the two units. If you are having a family, or simply want to move out and buy another property, you can use the rental income from the tenants, to show the bank that the house cash flows, and isn't a drag allowing them to give you more credit. You then can refinance the house at a later date by tapping into the equity you have paid down on the mortgage, plus additional equity if the value of the house goes up. In Canada where rental houses have capital gains tax, this is important. Essentially if someone has paid down most of their mortgage, they can get more out of the house by refinancing then they can by selling.

These refinance buyers in my mind are a huge part of what is pushing the price of real estate up, not people buying houses with their Jobs, but instead investors tapping into their equity gained due to the inflation of the house price and expanding their monopoly game.

I would recommend a duplex to those who are able to stretch their house price beyond their needs. So I might only need a 1 bedroom, but perhaps I'm looking for a three bedroom for the long term. Well in the medium term you can make some money and have someone else pay a good part of your mortgage. It's a hustle, and I also understand if someone wants to buy a place as their home and that's that.

I wouldn't even dare to dabble in residential real estate nowadays: nobody has a clue what the market will do next year. It is possible that everything will just crash, wiping away trillions in homeowner wealth. This becomes increasingly likely as central banks signal that they will raise interest rates.

Farmland, livestock, gold, silver, and networks are better investments for me. The best investment, of course, is our daily struggle in the Christian faith.
 
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