Redbeard's BTC For Beginners Datasheet

redbeard

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Any specific way to set up/ keep a wallet on my daily with out google or my phone flagging me as a crypto holder? Or am I being paranoid over all of the anti-kyc rhetoric lol.
Little of both. It's up to you how much you want to minimize your digital footprint vs. make the transaction easy.

Also, we don't use textspeak on the forum.
 

JayR

Woodpecker
Remember that if your Graphene phone has Samourai on it, you don't want that phone leaving the house. Too much risk. Instead, take a picture of the destination address using your daily driver and let that get scanned at the ATM.
I tried this today, and it did not work. The ATM would not scan the photograph of the Samourai-generated QR code on my outside-the-house device. I stood there in my mask and shades and cap trying to get it to scan for several minutes and started to get self-conscious, haha. Eventually I just gave up and went with the alternative option offered on the ATM screen -- create a paper wallet.

I then brought that home and transferred ("sweep") the BTC from the paper wallet to the Samourai wallet in my DeGoogled/GrapheneOS device. I figured this would not compromise my anonymity so felt ok going forward.

I checked 4 ATMs in my area (southeastern USA) and they all required authentication by sending a verification code to a mobile device via SMS, so I had to get a Tracfone burner at CVS.

Finally got some BTC -- feels good man!
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I tried this today, and it did not work. The ATM would not scan the photograph of the Samourai-generated QR code on my outside-the-house device. I stood there in my mask and shades and cap trying to get it to scan for several minutes and started to get self-conscious, haha. Eventually I just gave up and went with the alternative option offered on the ATM screen -- create a paper wallet.

I then brought that home and transferred ("sweep") the BTC from the paper wallet to the Samourai wallet in my DeGoogled/GrapheneOS device. I figured this would not compromise my anonymity so felt ok going forward.

I checked 4 ATMs in my area (southeastern USA) and they all required authentication by sending a verification code to a mobile device via SMS, so I had to get a Tracfone burner at CVS.

Finally got some BTC -- feels good man!
Dang, sorry to hear that happened. Yes, if the ATM can print a paper wallet, and you're OK protecting that wallet for <1 day, and you know how to sweep, it's not that big of a deal.

Great job, especially getting the burner phone. Remember that you can top up your minutes using BTC at bitrefill.com.
 

open source

Robin
Gold Member
I've found Coinflip ATM has one of the lowest fees - 6.99%.

Went to one today and bought some crypto using textverified (instead of using my phone number). Also no KYC if under $900.

Guide I used for textverified is below. The only difference from the guide was the ATM didn't ask for my email address to send the receipt.

Archive: https://archive.org/details/how-to-...buy-non-kyc-bitcoin-at-a-bitcoin-atm/mode/2up

Telegram pdf:

 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I've found Coinflip ATM has one of the lowest fees - 6.99%.

Went to one today and bought some crypto using textverified (instead of using my phone number). Also no KYC if under $900.

Guide I used for textverified is below. The only difference from the guide was the ATM didn't ask for my email address to send the receipt.

Archive: https://archive.org/details/how-to-...buy-non-kyc-bitcoin-at-a-bitcoin-atm/mode/2up

Telegram pdf:

AWESOME advice, thanks for sharing.
 

JayR

Woodpecker
All the ATMs near me have added KYC requirements (ID scan), so I set up an account with Bisq.

Is there any risk associated with just leaving my BTC in the Bisq wallet? Or is it advisable to use the Bisq wallet only for trading, and transfer my BTC to my Samourai wallet immediately after a purchase?
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
All the ATMs near me have added KYC requirements (ID scan), so I set up an account with Bisq.

Is there any risk associated with just leaving my BTC in the Bisq wallet? Or is it advisable to use the Bisq wallet only for trading, and transfer my BTC to my Samourai wallet immediately after a purchase?

It's about as secure as any other computer-based wallet, which is it is secure so long as your computer is not comprised.

The more secure way is to have a second device which is never connected to an internet-connected device, where your keys are housed, and which signs the transactions. For this I would recommend SafePal, not native, but by importing the private key. Then save that private key in parts in remote locations. Seeds are not a particularly secure way.

You can get your private key from Bisq - https://deeponion.org/community/thr...the-private-keys-from-your-bisq-wallet.26320/

So it is not dependent on 3rd party servers, software.

Have you used Bisq? If so, can you outline the experience? How much of a premium did you pay above spot? How easy was it? Any problems? What amounts can you buy?
 

JayR

Woodpecker
Have you used Bisq? If so, can you outline the experience? How much of a premium did you pay above spot? How easy was it? Any problems? What amounts can you buy?
Yes I've used it, but only twice, and only for purchases, so I am far from an expert. I'm dollar-cost-averaging into BTC by buying about $400 worth each month. My first few purchases were at a nearby BTC ATM, but when they started requiring an ID scan, I decided to give Bisq a try.

The video tutorials and FAQ pages at the Bisq site are probably the best way to learn about the platform, but I'll share my experience.

You need to have some Bitcoin already to get started with Bisq, because they require a security deposit before you can trade. You also need to set up a payment method to send or receive funds to/from the other party in a trade. The payment method used by most Bisq users seems to be Zelle, which is a bank-to-bank money transfer service available with most major banks in the USA. Bisq supports lots of other payment methods (e.g., Western Union, bank wire transfer, etc.), but the vast majority of Bisq traders use Zelle.

If you are a buyer like me, Bisq lists all of the Bisq users offering to sell BTC, and clearly shows the percentage premium over market price they are asking. When I checked today, I think the lowest markup I saw was 6% over the spot price. That's actually lower than the ~12% I was paying at the ATM, but still a drag on the bottom line. Somewhere in one of the tutorials it was mentioned that one is likely to get much better terms if you create your own buy-side offer. That's what I've done both times I've used Bisq -- click the "Create Offer to Buy" button and just enter the current spot price (conveniently displayed in the upper-right corner of the app and updated every 60 seconds). Both times I did this, I had an offer to sell within a couple hours.

When creating an offer, Bisq requires you to deposit 50% of the transaction total into your Bisq account as good-faith money. I assume there is a similar requirement on the sell side, but I am not sure. This is a safeguard against scammers.

After the seller confirms receipt of the funds via Zelle (or one of the other supported payment methods), Bisq transfers the BTC from the seller's account into the buyer's account. Bisq, of course, takes a small fee from each transaction.

When you first start out with Bisq, the only amount you are allowed to buy is 0.01 BTC (about US$470 as I type this). I believe after your account is active for a certain amount of time, or perhaps after a certain number of successful trades, this limitation is lifted. I haven't been too concerned about this restriction thus far because 0.01 BTC -- at recent BTC values -- is just about the exact amount I've settled on for my monthly DCA purchases.

Bisq is a desktop app, which I like (I'm not much of a phone guy), and it is pretty slick. Once I'd scaled the learning curve, I haven't had any problems with it (again, my experience is limited to two purchase transactions).

Hope this adds to the RVF/BTC knowledge base.
 
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Maddox

Woodpecker
How easy is it for hackers to access your wallet?

I assume that you shouldn't have your passcode anywhere on your computer. Right?
 

Acerza89

Pigeon
Orthodox Inquirer
Yes I've used it, but only twice, and only for purchases, so I am far from an expert. I'm dollar-cost-averaging into BTC by buying about $400 worth each month. My first few purchases were at a nearby BTC ATM, but when they started requiring an ID scan, I decided to give Bisq a try.

The video tutorials and FAQ pages at the Bisq site are probably the best way to learn about the platform, but I'll share my experience.

You need to have some Bitcoin already to get started with Bisq, because they require a security deposit before you can trade. You also need to set up a payment method to send or receive funds to/from the other party in a trade. The payment method used by most Bisq users seems to be Zelle, which is a bank-to-bank money transfer service available with most major banks in the USA. Bisq supports lots of other payment methods (e.g., Western Union, bank wire transfer, etc.), but the vast majority of Bisq traders use Zelle.

If you are a buyer like me, Bisq lists all of the Bisq users offering to sell BTC, and clearly shows the percentage premium over market price they are asking. When I checked today, I think the lowest markup I saw was 6% over the spot price. That's actually lower than the ~12% I was paying at the ATM, but still a drag on the bottom line. Somewhere in one of the tutorials it was mentioned that one is likely to get much better terms if you create your own buy-side offer. That's what I've done both times I've used Bisq -- click the "Create Offer to Buy" button and just enter the current spot price (conveniently displayed in the upper-right corner of the app and updated every 60 seconds). Both times I did this, I had an offer to sell within a couple hours.

When creating an offer, Bisq requires you to deposit 50% of the transaction total into your Bisq account as good-faith money. I assume there is a similar requirement on the sell side, but I am not sure. This is a safeguard against scammers.

After the seller confirms receipt of the funds via Zelle (or one of the other supported payment methods), Bisq transfers the BTC from the seller's account into the buyer's account. Bisq, of course, takes a small fee from each transaction.

When you first start out with Bisq, the only amount you are allowed to buy is 0.01 BTC (about US$470 as I type this). I believe after your account is active for a certain amount of time, or perhaps after a certain number of successful trades, this limitation is lifted. I haven't been too concerned about this restriction thus far because 0.01 BTC -- at recent BTC values -- is just about the exact amount I've settled on for my monthly DCA purchases.

Bisq is a desktop app, which I like (I'm not much of a phone guy), and it is pretty slick. Once I'd scaled the learning curve, I haven't had any problems with it (again, my experience is limited to two purchase transactions).

Hope this adds to the RVF/BTC knowledge base.
do you work for Bisq? clearly you have been advertising it a lot.

Not to knock off you actual text, thanks anyway
 

JayR

Woodpecker
do you work for Bisq? clearly you have been advertising it a lot.

Not to knock off you actual text, thanks anyway
No, I don't work for Bisq, but it is the only exchange with which I have experience, and I've been happy with the service so far. Questions and concerns with centralized exchanges keep popping up, so I'm just adding my 2 (fiat) cents, hoping to help by suggesting an alternative.
 

lonewolf1968

Kingfisher
Is there any hope for the dumb people who did kyc on multiple exchanges and bought crypto? Sell everything, delete accounts, request deletion as per GDPR and start over from bisq?
 

Jamal D

Robin
Yes I've used it, but only twice, and only for purchases, so I am far from an expert. I'm dollar-cost-averaging into BTC by buying about $400 worth each month. My first few purchases were at a nearby BTC ATM, but when they started requiring an ID scan, I decided to give Bisq a try.

The video tutorials and FAQ pages at the Bisq site are probably the best way to learn about the platform, but I'll share my experience.

You need to have some Bitcoin already to get started with Bisq, because they require a security deposit before you can trade. You also need to set up a payment method to send or receive funds to/from the other party in a trade. The payment method used by most Bisq users seems to be Zelle, which is a bank-to-bank money transfer service available with most major banks in the USA. Bisq supports lots of other payment methods (e.g., Western Union, bank wire transfer, etc.), but the vast majority of Bisq traders use Zelle.

If you are a buyer like me, Bisq lists all of the Bisq users offering to sell BTC, and clearly shows the percentage premium over market price they are asking. When I checked today, I think the lowest markup I saw was 6% over the spot price. That's actually lower than the ~12% I was paying at the ATM, but still a drag on the bottom line. Somewhere in one of the tutorials it was mentioned that one is likely to get much better terms if you create your own buy-side offer. That's what I've done both times I've used Bisq -- click the "Create Offer to Buy" button and just enter the current spot price (conveniently displayed in the upper-right corner of the app and updated every 60 seconds). Both times I did this, I had an offer to sell within a couple hours.

When creating an offer, Bisq requires you to deposit 50% of the transaction total into your Bisq account as good-faith money. I assume there is a similar requirement on the sell side, but I am not sure. This is a safeguard against scammers.

After the seller confirms receipt of the funds via Zelle (or one of the other supported payment methods), Bisq transfers the BTC from the seller's account into the buyer's account. Bisq, of course, takes a small fee from each transaction.

When you first start out with Bisq, the only amount you are allowed to buy is 0.01 BTC (about US$470 as I type this). I believe after your account is active for a certain amount of time, or perhaps after a certain number of successful trades, this limitation is lifted. I haven't been too concerned about this restriction thus far because 0.01 BTC -- at recent BTC values -- is just about the exact amount I've settled on for my monthly DCA purchases.

Bisq is a desktop app, which I like (I'm not much of a phone guy), and it is pretty slick. Once I'd scaled the learning curve, I haven't had any problems with it (again, my experience is limited to two purchase transactions).

Hope this adds to the RVF/BTC knowledge base.
What kind of description do you leave in your Zelle transaction field (if there are any)? Authorities are going bersherk these days with identification both in regular bank transfers and external services like Wise, Moneygram etc.... Leaving no traces after you is nearly impossible unless you do cash to coin transactions.
 

JayR

Woodpecker
What kind of description do you leave in your Zelle transaction field (if there are any)? Authorities are going bersherk these days with identification both in regular bank transfers and external services like Wise, Moneygram etc.... Leaving no traces after you is nearly impossible unless you do cash to coin transactions.
You can just leave the memo/description field blank.

How might authorities link a Zelle transaction to a crypto purchase or sale?
 

Jamal D

Robin
You can just leave the memo/description field blank.

How might authorities link a Zelle transaction to a crypto purchase or sale?
Simply by asking what did you purchase. If the transaction is domestic I think you are far less likely to get on someones radar. But international transactions these days are easily questioned by authorities (at least in my area)

I had my account locked for international transactions after I tried to transfer to Kraken. I was sent a mail with 7 questions that would need to be answered before they open it, so now I am waiting for my overlords in my bank to decided if I am a criminal or not. I never made deposits to my Kraken account and all 100% of my KYC platforms are deleted.
 

JayR

Woodpecker
Simply by asking what did you purchase. If the transaction is domestic I think you are far less likely to get on someones radar. But international transactions these days are easily questioned by authorities (at least in my area)

I had my account locked for international transactions after I tried to transfer to Kraken. I was sent a mail with 7 questions that would need to be answered before they open it, so now I am waiting for my overlords in my bank to decided if I am a criminal or not. I never made deposits to my Kraken account and all 100% of my KYC platforms are deleted.
Zelle is domestic/US-only, so that's reassuring.

I fed dollars into a local ATM that had no KYC requirements to acquire enough BTC to meet the minimums required to start trading on Bisq, where I now have a "signed" account (newbie restrictions lifted). I store my BTC in Samourai wallet on a de-Googled Pixel3a running GrapheneOS. Learned most of this stuff here on this thread.

My only mis-step was paying for a domain registration service with BTC. At the time, I wanted to see if I could successfully make a purchase using BTC, but only later realized the tax (and therefore privacy) implications of doing so.
 

Jamal D

Robin
Yeah it is a good thread, and I wished I found it earlier... This ain`t bad either: https://bitcoiner.guide/

I am thinking of the same structure of buying like you do to with Samurai. What I am a bit on the fence about is if a de-googled is needed for this use if I have a 100% dedicated phone only for this use, that is only turned on in public IP-areas.

Currently I have a Ledger Nano X being shipped to me. But I have to say I don`t trust them at all after doing some research... Ledger works with KYC exchanges for staking/swapping and are under French regulations, and are becoming way too mainstream. They log some activity when setting up Ledger Live also...

The whirlpool features on Samurai is just what I need.

Are you only doing HODL or will you also do swapping on a part of your position?
 

00anon00

Chicken
Can someone give a 5-10 year optimistic and pessimistic prediction, and the reasoning behind each? I want to hear what someone deep into crypto has to say (not a newb like myself).
 
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