Relationship with a Neurotic Woman

BoiBoi

Pelican
In the past few months, I realized that my girlfriend is highly neurotic. By neurotic, I mean that she is prone to negative feelings, mood swings and needs constant reassurance. Everything I do or say is put under scrutiny, and she usually manages to interpret it in the worst possible way. It is draining and leads to frequent major fights over small things. The gist is always that she doesn't believe that I love her. However, I do love her and want(ed) to marry her.
There were some early indicators but since I was (and still am) crazy about her, I dismissed them. E.g. she confessed to going through my phone on the 2 or 3 date. Or she got super upset, when she learned that I still had pictures of my ex-girlfriends (like 10-year-old pics from a holiday in Mexico, nothing crazy).

We have been together for a little less than 1.5 years and for the past 6-8 months, we had at least 1 major argument/week. Sometimes even more. I'm at a loss on what to do here.

Normally, I would have ended the relationship a while ago, as I'm rather drama-free and like my life this way. However, right from the start, I thought that I had finally found my future wife. She is beautiful, caring and smart. By all accounts, she is a good girl: She wants to be a homemaker and enjoys the traditional role division. No parties, no drugs, no ex-boyfriends. She enjoys spoiling me with her affection, her cooking skills and, I believe, would never leave me.

What's your experience with neurotic women? Has anybody experienced a similar situation?
 
I had few short term relationships with women like that. One time they will be the greatest girlfriend ever, the other time they will be the worst.
It got old really fast with me and moved on.
Now that it has been a few years and that meanwhile I've lived monk mode and grew my relationship with God, I'm able to reflect the times with those women.
All of them didn't have their parents still together.
That's one thing. But the other thing that occurred to me is that a lot of their behavior showed signs of some kind of trauma, I'm thinking sexual abuse at a young age.
This kind of trauma leaves a permanent scar on you. They unconsciously sabotage every relationship that they are on, thinking they are not good enough.

So my questions to you to get deeper :
Are her parents still together?
Did she share with you that she was abused in any way as a child?
 

scenicway

Sparrow
It will not improve. Do some due diligence on "borderline personality disorder".

Personally, after wasting a lot of time with these type of women in the past, I don't anymore. It's too exhausting and never improves. It doesn't mean they are bad people, but the the risk/reward ratio is too high long term.

There was a post about the "Happy gene" a few years back. Top 10 RVF post. Read carefully:
https://www.rooshvforum.com/threads/a-date-review-i-got-today-from-a-33yo-female.38787/post-1396723
 
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Waverer

Robin
I have dated women like this briefly and seen one of my closest friends marry one. He is in a very unhappy marriage and she turns 40 this year so there is little chance of the kids he really wants. But he would never leave her as he is very religious and lacks the confidence that can do any better anyway.

My big question for you: if you assume all these behaviours will go on throughout your marriage, would you still want to marry her?

It would not be for me - but maybe you really can live with it. The world's foremost relationship expert - I forget his name - says the number one piece of advice he gives people considering marriage is this: "can you live with the problems in your marriage forever - because they almost certainly will be there forever?". If anything people are on best behaviour before marriage and things get a worse as problems they used to cover up show themselves. Certainly the wife of the friend I mentioned has become far more difficult.

It sounds from your message as though you are arguing a lot even as a dating couple living apart. If you share a marriage, house, childcare and childrearing responsibilities, bills, household chores and so on, be prepared for those arguments to soar.

I think a key feature of high neuroticism people is that they don't respond well to reason because their brains aren't really in the driving seat a lot of the time. I asked an expert about this once and he said it was the equivalent of losing 10 or 20 IQ points. They become functionally dumber.

So arguments will be more intense, more unreasonable and probably unproductive than normal. You may decide to stop arguing altogether and give in to unreasonable behaviour, or you may end up especially defensive towards even quite reasonable criticism or overly argumentative about minor points. My friend is a weird mix of both. It's not much of a life, and her selfishness ruins everything else in his life. He used to have a very active social life with a big family and friends - now he is alienated from friends he rarely sees and when he does socialise with friends and family he's constantly fielding long phone calls from her about not much.
 

BoiBoi

Pelican
My big question for you: if you assume all these behaviours will go on throughout your marriage, would you still want to marry her?

It sounds from your message as though you are arguing a lot even as a dating couple living apart. If you share a marriage, house, childcare and childrearing responsibilities, bills, household chores and so on, be prepared for those arguments to soar.

I think a key feature of high neuroticism people is that they don't respond well to reason because their brains aren't really in the driving seat a lot of the time. I asked an expert about this once and he said it was the equivalent of losing 10 or 20 IQ points. They become functionally dumber.

So arguments will be more intense, more unreasonable and probably unproductive than normal. You may decide to stop arguing altogether and give in to unreasonable behaviour, or you may end up especially defensive towards even quite reasonable criticism or overly argumentative about minor points.
My answer is obviously no. It's too exhausting. E.g. We spent NYE together in my place. We had a very nice evening. However, afterwards we got into a fight, because I didn't say that it was the best NYE ever. Seriously. I only said that I had a very good time. She then got offended...

Yes, we are not living together, but we were looking at apartments. Most of our arguments stem from her insecurities and I figured/rationalized that moving-in together would mitigate the issue. I know that this doesn't sound like the best idea.

Your description of the fights seems pretty accurate. She gets super emotional and reason says good-by. We have wasted hours arguing without getting anywhere.
 

Waverer

Robin
It's too exhausting. E.g. We spent NYE together in my place. We had a very nice evening. However, afterwards we got into a fight, because I didn't say that it was the best NYE ever. Seriously. I only said that I had a very good time. She then got offended...

Yes, we are not living together, but we were looking at apartments. Most of our arguments stem from her insecurities and I figured/rationalized that moving-in together would mitigate the issue. I know that this doesn't sound like the best idea.

Your description of the fights seems pretty accurate. She gets super emotional and reason says good-by. We have wasted hours arguing without getting anywhere.
Here is what will happen if you move in together (and marry). You'll have all the same arguments as before but you can add to that all kinds of other arguments about boring living together nitty gritty - did you forget to wash her blouse because you were only thinking of yourself when you started the washing machine? if you loved her wouldn't you be willing to head out now and buy a few essentials, even at 1am? Even happy couples talk like this a lot of the time so add a high dose of neuroticism and you'll get a high multiple of it.

In particular, I suspect your social life away from her will crater. If she is that insecure she will hate you being away from her and doing other things and will do all she can to stop it. She may just be so plagued by fears she can't help but call you all the time. When you are having a night out with friends now, how often does she call you?
 

BoiBoi

Pelican
It will not improve. Do some due diligence on "borderline personality disorder".

Personally, after wasting a lot of time with these type of women in the past, I don't anymore. It's too exhausting and never improves. It doesn't mean they are bad people, but the the risk/reward ratio is too high long term.

There was a post about the "Happy gene" a few years back. Top 10 RVF post. Read carefully:
https://www.rooshvforum.com/threads/a-date-review-i-got-today-from-a-33yo-female.38787/post-1396723
I don't think that she has BPD.

Yes, I know this post. I have been thinking about it a lot lately.
 

BoiBoi

Pelican
Due to the almighty C, there are hardly night outs currently. I do get the point, though.

You know, there have been times that she demanded that I'd skip my basketball group and come to her instead. She couldn't give me a proper reason why it was so important for me to come. I offered to come after practice, she declined. Naturally, I went to play basketball. The fight afterwards got massive.
 

Athanasius

Pelican
I have seen decent women prone to mood swings and manipulation improve under the leadership of a stable man. Sometimes people act like this because it's a habitual and it has worked for them in the past to get their way and control others. It requires holding frame, recognizing her tendencies, and telling her you aren't going to put up with nonsense. If you are going to have a successful marriage, she needs to get in line and realize that you, not her, will be setting the tone of the household. You're going to have to get good at holding frame, but it's a good thing for any man to do anyway. I'd cut the long arguments off quickly if it's going according to pattern.

Even good women can be a handful at times.

All situations are different and you will need to figure out if she is marriage material.
 

Hootie

Kingfisher
The majority of personality disorders stem from emotional disregulation. The manifests in maladaptive attachment styles, insecurity, and generally acting out what plagues you.

Trauma is generational and most people externalize the cause while ignoring the internal habits that prolong it. It's a way of repressing the truth which their way of interacting and perceiving the world is messed up and they learned that from a family member.

Psychopathy & sociopathic behavior are different from cluster b traits.

It sounds like your girl has serious abandonment issues. Trauma distorts your views of everything; a shell shocked soldier being triggered by a backfiring engine is similar to what your girl experiences when insecurity begins to creep in. Unless she's willing to to acknowledge, address, and overcome that..cut bait.

Richard Grannon is a big proponent of Pete Walker's work focused on resolving trauma.
 

Jive Turkey

Sparrow
I dated a girl who was similar to what you are describing. Like the other member said, I would recommend reading up on BPD, and if it sounds like she has it, leave. It can't be cured, and a lot of therapists refuse to even treat BPD. The only known treatment is dialectic behavioral therapy, and a therapist needs to be specially trained for that. Even then, it is more of a "management" strategy, kind of like how autism can't be cured, but autistic people can be taught certain scripts or skills to manage their daily lives better.

I think if you are serious about marriage and children it would be best to cut ties and do a clean break. Say goodbye, tell her why you are leaving, and explain that you are blocking her, because I can almost guarantee she will try to get back into your life. (Mine did several times).

Good luck bro, this is a horrible situation, but I think pretty much all men go through it.
 

Aizen

Kingfisher
Due to the almighty C, there are hardly night outs currently. I do get the point, though.

You know, there have been times that she demanded that I'd skip my basketball group and come to her instead. She couldn't give me a proper reason why it was so important for me to come. I offered to come after practice, she declined. Naturally, I went to play basketball. The fight afterwards got massive.
If she denies you the right to play basketball with friends, an arguably healthy activity, she is trying to sabotage your life if not outright control you. What's next, will you need a permission slip to live your life outside? It's not like you were going to the strip club or the casino and she begged you not to go. I could understand that, especially from a good woman. Even going to a bar is questionable. But a basketball game? With friends? The writing's on the wall man. There's no such thing as "the one". Start sharpening your sword and preparing for your next journey.
 

Bird

Kingfisher
We have been together for a little less than 1.5 years and for the past 6-8 months, we had at least 1 major argument/week. Sometimes even more.

Normally, I would have ended the relationship a while ago, as I'm rather drama-free and like my life this way.

Had a similar experience 20 years ago with a similar timeline.
After 6 months the relationship was actually at an end and then lasted another 1 painful year.
From today's perspective, I should have moved on after 6 months instead of dealing with another year of a hopeless situation.

Her behavior says she has no real interest in you anymore, so move on.
 
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