Remember the Sabbath day

SimpleMan

Sparrow
I really want to followed God's Law to the letter, as Jesus did.

Right now I am stuck on the Sabbath.

The calendar has been changed since Roman times so I'm not really sure when God's calendar really is. The only thing I can trust his Him and his Creation. Not Man and it's creations. satan is a liar and does all it can to stop people following God's Law's properly. I 'm worried that I am following the wrong Sabbath and Festival dates.

I trust he has given us the tools to know when to rest on the His day and take part in his Festivals and from scripture He said will give us the sun, moon and stars as signs (a big sky clock if you will, which is nice of Him). This can't be changed and is a constant, no matter how much the liar attempts the block the sky from us.

What is the Orthodox position on the Sabbath and Festivals and how can we be sure when the real day is? Have there been Saints in the past that questioned this? Is this just me that having doubts on the Sabbath? Can anyone ask a Church Father about this?

Any input would be appreciated, thank you.
 
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Lawrence87

Robin
Orthodox
If you go to a canonical Orthodox church you will be celebrating the right feasts and festivals. We can be sure of this because the Orthodox church is the true church and would not fall into such error. No need to second guess Christ's body on this earth. Just go and celebrate when the Orthodox church celebrates.

EDIT: And if you are worrying about the Sabbath as in worshiping like the Jews on a Saturday, forget about it. Don't even think of celebrating with those who killed our Lord. Christians have their main weekly feast on Sunday
 

SimpleMan

Sparrow
@Lawrence87

I'm not sure what the right thing is to do. On the one hand I want to trust tradition and those that came before me, and Orthodox does tick a lot of the right boxes. At times I want to pretend that I woke up with amnesia and all I had was the Bible, what would I do then with no tradition or help from Man?

One thing sticks out in my memory which is adding to my stuck-ness. I remember reading that everyone has been teaching the rules of the board game Monopoly wrong. Each person teaching the next without informing them that if someone doesn't buy a space when they land on it, it goes up for auction, thereby speeding up the game and changing the game as a whole.

Now, I'm aware of the pride and arrogance of myself questioning things like this, but either God led me to question this, or satan did.

Why do you think God specifically said 'Remember...' in this Commandment? Thinking in Jesus' time (and before) they did not have our current calendar.

How do I get over the pagan use of the names in the days week? Some say it is Saturday because of things like the Spanish word Sabado. Some say that prior to Saturday being used for the Jewish faith, is that they had another way, before adopting the calendar we use today too.

Do Orthodox follow the rules of not working/ conducting business, ie. spending money or asking people to work for you (shops, restaurants etc) on Sunday?
 

Lawrence87

Robin
Orthodox
@Lawrence87

I'm not sure what the right thing is to do. On the one hand I want to trust tradition and those that came before me, and Orthodox does tick a lot of the right boxes. At times I want to pretend that I woke up with amnesia and all I had was the Bible, what would I do then with no tradition or help from Man?

One thing sticks out in my memory which is adding to my stuck-ness. I remember reading that everyone has been teaching the rules of the board game Monopoly wrong. Each person teaching the next without informing them that if someone doesn't buy a space when they land on it, it goes up for auction, thereby speeding up the game and changing the game as a whole.

Now, I'm aware of the pride and arrogance of myself questioning things like this, but either God led me to question this, or satan did.

Why do you think God specifically said 'Remember...' in this Commandment? Thinking in Jesus' time (and before) they did not have our current calendar.

How do I get over the pagan use of the names in the days week? Some say it is Saturday because of things like the Spanish word Sabado. Some say that prior to Saturday being used for the Jewish faith, is that they had another way, before adopting the calendar we use today too.

Do Orthodox follow the rules of not working/ conducting business, ie. spending money or asking people to work for you (shops, restaurants etc) on Sunday?

Why play such thought experiments? The Bible exists precisely because of the traditions of the Orthodox Church. For the first two or three centuries of Christianity there was no Bible, and it's not like the texts from the New Testament were all there was, there were all sorts of texts circulating claiming to be authentic (look at the texts from the Nag Hammadi library for instance). The Orthodox Church preserved the authentic texts through it's traditions. If you can't trust the traditions, you can't trust the Bible it's really that simple.

The analogy you use is making an assumption of atheism. The Church is instituted by Christ, and is guided by the Holy Spirit, only an atheist would claim such an institution could be prone to error. You're saying that the church is fundamentally just an organization of man, that is not the case. The Church is Christ's body on this earth, why would you presume that it is just a bunch of guys who get everything wrong?

As for keeping Sunday holy, that's best established with a priest. Generally you would go to church of course, and how you observe it aside from that is a matter for you and your priest, these days some people have to work on Sundays for instance...
 

SimpleMan

Sparrow
@Lawrence87

Thank you. I will reflect on what you wrote.

I very much trust the Bible, and when reading I am led sometimes, I don't see it as mind games but it does feel like it sometimes (Quick side question - I've included the Apocrypha books - is this Orthodox?)

I'm just confused. As I read into history I see things changing all the time, however, God is a constant, His Law's are constant. Truth is constant.

I've always been interested in Truth, and it has led me down false paths (Sin), until Jesus and the true God (we need Jesus to discern the way, I discovered) If I am to follow Jesus and I am led to the Orthodox so be it. It appeals to me that the Orthodox tradition is also constant.
 

Caramasão

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
Orthodox apologist Kabane has an article on the meaning of the Sabbath day:

"Because Jesus has inaugurated the eschaton, we are living in the inaugurated eschatological Sabbath. Since Sabbath is about enthronement in God’s Temple-Palace, the eschatological Sabbath began when Jesus stitched Heaven and Earth together in Himself and sat down on David’s heavenly throne. In that sense, every day is the Sabbath for the Christian. In another sense, there has been a movement from the seventh to the eighth day. Circumcision happens on the eighth day because it is a sign of the coming eschatological Sabbath. In one sense, Sunday is the first day of a new creation. In another, Sunday is the eighth day of the matured old creation."

Full article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/kabane...0323296260/the-meaning-of-the-sabbath-day/amp
 

Lawrence87

Robin
Orthodox
@Lawrence87

Thank you. I will reflect on what you wrote.

I very much trust the Bible, and when reading I am led sometimes, I don't see it as mind games but it does feel like it sometimes (Quick side question - I've included the Apocrypha books - is this Orthodox?)

I'm just confused. As I read into history I see things changing all the time, however, God is a constant, His Law's are constant. Truth is constant.

I've always been interested in Truth, and it has led me down false paths (Sin), until Jesus and the true God (we need Jesus to discern the way, I discovered) If I am to follow Jesus and I am led to the Orthodox so be it. It appeals to me that the Orthodox tradition is also constant.

The Orthodox use the Greek Septuagint for their Old Testament.

I would advise going to an Orthodox Church and beginning catechism there. This will answer your questions better than I can
 

SimpleMan

Sparrow
@Caramasão

I agree, every day is like the Sabbath in many ways, but I was told to remember His Holy Day (and in turn, His Festivals) and to not do any work. This may lead me to take a drastic option of losing my job to fulfil this. Hence why it is so important to me.

You can still take out a fallen animal in a ditch, and also collect grain from the field (for eating oneself for God's mission), but not to collect and sell it - for yourself/mammon.

There are allowances, as long it is for God.

On the days I work, I need to remember to do it for God, maybe start talking about Him on those days, I also don't spend any money to force others to work for me, and hope this is enough for now.

@Lawrence87 Thanks I've had the Septuagint in a shop basket for a while. May have to get it now : )
 

Max Roscoe

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
I don't understand exactly what the OP is asking.
Do you have one day a week that you can set aside your normal duties and be humble before God? Are you worried about doing this on the wrong manmade calendar date? Are you not sure what activities you should refrain from or partake in on this day? Can you be more specific?
 

SimpleMan

Sparrow
It's more the correct day at the moment, my issue is with the changes over time, and doing things as Jesus did it. Follow Him He says, and His source material was the Old Testament.

Once I know that I'll be at peace, as everything else will follow. It's somewhat basic once I know that, as it is written, no work today, just enjoy Me (with others if you can).

I would like to think that every day is a day of Worship (or that God is on my mind), I just want His Day to be set apart from the rest and I don't know when that is. I have my theories but I don't want to share them. I was hoping to find a Saint who dealt with this query, and see what they wrote deducted from Scripture, history and tradition. As suggested, this may be a query for a Church Father.
 

TheMost

Robin
Orthodox apologist Kabane has an article on the meaning of the Sabbath day:

"Because Jesus has inaugurated the eschaton, we are living in the inaugurated eschatological Sabbath. Since Sabbath is about enthronement in God’s Temple-Palace, the eschatological Sabbath began when Jesus stitched Heaven and Earth together in Himself and sat down on David’s heavenly throne. In that sense, every day is the Sabbath for the Christian. In another sense, there has been a movement from the seventh to the eighth day. Circumcision happens on the eighth day because it is a sign of the coming eschatological Sabbath. In one sense, Sunday is the first day of a new creation. In another, Sunday is the eighth day of the matured old creation."

Full article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/kabane...0323296260/the-meaning-of-the-sabbath-day/amp
Kabane doesn't have the historical knowledge necessary for this. The eight day referred to by the earliest Church Fathers was speaking of the 8th day of the lunar month, which was always a sabbath. And was also the seventh day after six work days. And all that stuff about every day being the Sabbath because of some allegorical stuff he made up, is hogwash. Orthodoxies greatest weakness is that it allegorized the Bible, so now anything goes. Some historians have made a good case that the earliest gay marriage ceremonies were incorporated into the Orthodox church around the time of Byzantine emperor Justinian. Allegory is the road to hell.
The Institutes of Biblical Law, by John Rushdoony is worth reading. He came from a long lineage of Orthodox priests and bishops. He had the inside scoop. He was opposed to allegorizing the Bible, and he backed it up with historical evidence.
 

Lawrence87

Robin
Orthodox
It's more the correct day at the moment, my issue is with the changes over time, and doing things as Jesus did it. Follow Him He says, and His source material was the Old Testament.

Once I know that I'll be at peace, as everything else will follow. It's somewhat basic once I know that, as it is written, no work today, just enjoy Me (with others if you can).

I would like to think that every day is a day of Worship (or that God is on my mind), I just want His Day to be set apart from the rest and I don't know when that is. I have my theories but I don't want to share them. I was hoping to find a Saint who dealt with this query, and see what they wrote deducted from Scripture, history and tradition. As suggested, this may be a query for a Church Father.

I don't really get what you are trying to achieve. Are you proposing that the Churches are worshipping on the wrong days, and that you need to deduce the right day to worship on, because according to you people have got it wrong?
 

SimpleMan

Sparrow
I don't really get what you are trying to achieve. Are you proposing that the Churches are worshipping on the wrong days, and that you need to deduce the right day to worship on, because according to you people have got it wrong?

I don't know anything (hence my problem) and have no authority to make such claims. I am after those who questioned this and resolved it. Sunday makes sense to me, as does Saturday and other days too.

I'm led where I'm led, given what is given.
Either for correction or reproof.
 

Lawrence87

Robin
Orthodox
I don't know anything (hence my problem) and have no authority to make such claims. I am after those who questioned this and resolved it. Sunday makes sense to me, as does Saturday and other days too.

I'm led where I'm led, given what is given.
Either for correction or reproof.

I understand what you mean. So you want to find out why someone decided Sunday is the Lord's day and instantiated worship on that day as opposed to the Saturday traditionally observed by the Jews? You want to know the reasoning? I can't point you to a specific person but the reasoning is simple. The Lord began creation on the first day of the week, and the Lord arose on the first day of the week. Thus Sunday marks the creation, and the fulfillment of creation. I can't point you to who made the decision to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday specifically, that might be lost to history, but the reasoning seems pretty simple.

It may already have been instantiated in the book of Acts where it mentions meeting to break bread on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7)

Though the specifics of the decision itself might not be available to us, it's clear that from very early on Christians worshipped on Sundays.
 

Aboulia

Woodpecker
Orthodox
It's more the correct day at the moment, my issue is with the changes over time, and doing things as Jesus did it. Follow Him He says, and His source material was the Old Testament.

Once I know that I'll be at peace, as everything else will follow. It's somewhat basic once I know that, as it is written, no work today, just enjoy Me (with others if you can).

I would like to think that every day is a day of Worship (or that God is on my mind), I just want His Day to be set apart from the rest and I don't know when that is. I have my theories but I don't want to share them. I was hoping to find a Saint who dealt with this query, and see what they wrote deducted from Scripture, history and tradition. As suggested, this may be a query for a Church Father.

You're correct in your belief that everyday belongs to God. The sabbath was made for man. God didn't need a rest. Man needs that. It is permissible to do all good works on the sabbath, ask yourself before you do things, am I doing this for my own material gain, or to boost my reputation? Or am I doing it for the sake of others. Don't be like the pharisaical jews and refuse to touch a lightswitch for fear of "doing work". The Lord and Creator of all is the god of silly superstition.

The interpretation of men who compiled the scriptures into the bible is naturally a greater source of authority than the bible itself, as it didn't compile itself. I don't really care what the "Original Sky Calendar of the Hebrews" says, the Jews hate Christ so much they corrupted the Masoretic text to try to plausibly deny that Jesus Christ is the promised messiah, so why are you hoping in superstition to save yourself? Do you think it is better to crucify all your passions (pride, lust, greed, envy, sloth, etc) and you live like a stranger on the earth, like Jesus Christ did, or to research to find which day you should abstain from labour?

The Sabbath is Saturday, for that is the day that God rested in the tomb. Christians gather on Sunday, for that is the day that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Our hope is that when the dead are resurrected, we are not among those condemned at his right hand. When God asks if you loved your neighbour at the final judgement, who will be better off? The one who says "Well, I did research, and found out the Sabbath day and I tried really hard not to do work on that day to honour you" or the one who says "Lord, I am a worthless sinner, who has done nothing good", and has people interceding for him saying "When I was in trouble, this man helped me" or "I was hungry, and this man provided for me". Whom do you think God will put among the just, the one who loved his neighbour, or the one who loved the calendar?

Edit: One more, do you think the Lord and God of all, came down from heaven, suffered, was crucified and buried, and rose from the dead in order to teach us how to live, or to make sure we were following the proper sabbath?
 
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Lawrence87

Robin
Orthodox
Kabane doesn't have the historical knowledge necessary for this. The eight day referred to by the earliest Church Fathers was speaking of the 8th day of the lunar month, which was always a sabbath. And was also the seventh day after six work days. And all that stuff about every day being the Sabbath because of some allegorical stuff he made up, is hogwash. Orthodoxies greatest weakness is that it allegorized the Bible, so now anything goes. Some historians have made a good case that the earliest gay marriage ceremonies were incorporated into the Orthodox church around the time of Byzantine emperor Justinian. Allegory is the road to hell.
The Institutes of Biblical Law, by John Rushdoony is worth reading. He came from a long lineage of Orthodox priests and bishops. He had the inside scoop. He was opposed to allegorizing the Bible, and he backed it up with historical evidence.
Can you cite your sources for your claim that the Orthodox Church performed gay marriages?

Not being funny but historians these days do a lot of "oh look Napoleon had a vagina, who knew?" and "Vikings were bisexual" kinda nonsense. It's all baseless woke garbage, so forgive me if I am sceptical about your claim
 

GuitarVH

Kingfisher
Orthodox Inquirer
I think what the OP is asking, without saying it explicitly, is why certain Christian groups like the 7th Day Baptists, 7th Day Adventists and current offshoots of the former Worldwide Church of God, worship on Saturday like the Jews as that is the original day of the Sabbath referred to in the 4th Commandment. Some of those groups also practice OT Feast Days such as the Day of Atonement, the Feast of Trumpets and the Feast of Tabernacles.

These groups will say that the early Christians corrupted the Sabbath Day by changing it to Sunday and modern day observers are breaking the 4th Commandment. They wonder how God could allow for one of his commandments to be changed. They are completely stuck on this point. They also believe the Council of Nicaea and St. Constantine ruined Christianity and introduced paganism into it. Their misunderstanding of Church history is a massive problem in this regard. A Roman emperor converting to Christianity and making it the religion of the Empire is an incredible miracle of history, in actuality.

I know people personally who believe the things above. If a knowledgeable Orthodox could address those questions, it will probably help out the OP and those with an adventist leaning.
 

Lawrence87

Robin
Orthodox
I think what the OP is asking, without saying it explicitly, is why certain Christian groups like the 7th Day Baptists, 7th Day Adventists and current offshoots of the former Worldwide Church of God, worship on Saturday like the Jews as that is the original day of the Sabbath referred to in the 4th Commandment. Some of those groups also practice OT Feast Days such as the Day of Atonement, the Feast of Trumpets and the Feast of Tabernacles.

These groups will say that the early Christians corrupted the Sabbath Day by changing it to Sunday and modern day observers are breaking the 4th Commandment. They wonder how God could allow for one of his commandments to be changed. They are completely stuck on this point. They also believe the Council of Nicaea and St. Constantine ruined Christianity and introduced paganism into it. Their misunderstanding of Church history is a massive problem in this regard. A Roman emperor converting to Christianity and making it the religion of the Empire is an incredible miracle of history, in actuality.

I know people personally who believe the things above. If a knowledgeable Orthodox could address those questions, it will probably help out the OP and those with an adventist leaning.

It kinda bugs me how these people take on an atheistic way of looking at Christianity despite professing to be Christians. What I mean is, the idea that Constantine would have integrated paganism into Christianity and degraded or changed it is precisely how an atheist would look at it, i.e just humans doing stuff. Really Christians should see the hand of God in history, but instead they are looking at the history of their own religion like God either abandoned it or does not exist.

Why would God allow His Church to be prevailed against? As you rightly said it was a miracle.
 
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