Role for female friends

It's so hard to make friends when you're of post-school age
Its funny how often I hear this, and how contrary it is to my personal experience. I find it slightly easier now than then. Of course most of this is due to who I was when I was school age. I had no self confidence and a lot of social anxiety.
 

MKDAWUSS

Kingfisher
I disagree with that as a blanket statement, but it's clear that OP wants to befriend women as a way of getting ahead in the sexual marketplace with women. This is not a good reason to make female friends, and in fact, seeking out female friends to get advice about women is generally going to end in failure for you. Not only do women not understand themselves, their advice is also more tailored to lead you in the direction of being a gentle beta orbiter, rather than the kind of man a woman would actually want.

Female friends that are friends just because they happen to be a part of your social circle, however, can be a good thing. You can learn more about women by watching how they act (rather than listening to what they say) and they can be enjoyable company, and in some cases, when you're not friends with them for the sake of finding other women, they can create opportunities for you. I'm not talking about opportunities to date another woman necessarily, but women are fantastic at providing pathways through social networks that can provide you with ample opportunities in all walks of life. They might lead you to a good church, someone that would hire you onto a good company, and so on forth.
I would have thought that having a couple of close female friends could help vet anyone you're in a relationship with. I was under the impression that women can easily identify problem women.

Its funny how often I hear this, and how contrary it is to my personal experience. I find it slightly easier now than then. Of course most of this is due to who I was when I was school age. I had no self confidence and a lot of social anxiety.
I think that's because of the impression that as people get older, they move on from friends to couples. Instead of spending lots of time with friends, they now spend time with family.
 

Neo

Pelican
Gold Member
Very little. I never had many female friends and in my gaming days I unfortunately ended up sleeping with some of the ones I did have.

Recently, through circumstances, I've acquired more female friends. They mostly detract value from my life. They tend to add drama and bother me. They get upset if I don't see them, etc. These are all secular women around my age, so that makes it even worse spiritually. I've reduced contact with them.

I have an exception however. Women who have given themselves to God (nuns, deeply faithful and religious women) can make excellent friends.
 

Waverer

Robin
Its funny how often I hear this, and how contrary it is to my personal experience. I find it slightly easier now than then. Of course most of this is due to who I was when I was school age. I had no self confidence and a lot of social anxiety.
I think if you're pretty smart and go to an ordinary school in an ordinary part of the country you may not have much in common with people who mostly want to talk about sport and reality TV. But as you get older you can control your own social life much more, and easily find people with interests more like yours. That's my experience anyway.
 
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From a strictly utilitarian point of view, how useful is it to have female friends? Do you meet women through them? Learn about how to win over women? Get a more sensible second opinion than from male friends?

I am wondering if I should cultivate more women I don't want to be with - or at least stop neglecting female friends.
Take what I say with a bit of salt, since I've never been in a long term relationship, but this is what has worked for me.

It's a lot more difficult to learn how to have a functioning long term relationship with a woman until you've learned how to have functioning friendships with women.

Only go out of your way to spend time around women you respect. And when I say respect, I don't mean "base line respect because they are human beings" I mean like genuine respect. You respect them because they have an admirable character, are God serving, they have goals, they are capable of having opinions and a conversation without absolutely awful takes. It shows you what to look for. Now, I'm not saying to cultivate close intimate relationships with women you don't intend on dating. That's not a good idea. But it might not be a bad idea to invite certain friends to group gatherings, unless you want an all male group dynamic. Inviting girls does change the group dynamic significantly.

Spending time with women only because they are women is not productive. You can justify it in your head momentarily because they may be attractive, but that's just going to make you cynical about women.
 

homersheineken

Woodpecker
I think if you're pretty smart and go to an ordinary school in an ordinary part of the country you may not have much in common with people who mostly want to talk about sport and reality TV. But as you get older you can control your own social life much more, and easily find people with interests more like yours. That's my experience anyway.
I've found it more challenging to make friends as I've gotten older. Most already has their circle of friends. Or they don't align in values/viewpoints or have the time to commit due to family, other friends, etc...
 

kel

Pelican
The time is a big part, and the hassle of getting together, and the awkward feel of having "adult play dates" with others. It's just not the same as striking up a conversation with someone at a house party.
 

Sargon2112

Sparrow
Interesting topic.
I never bought into the platonic friend idea. Now that I'm married, it's not an option anyway, but back in the day, women fell into two categories: those I wanted to be around and those I didn't. If I wanted to be around a woman, it was because I was attracted to her, sexually. Friendship could develop with that attraction, but never without the sexual attraction. Otherwise, they were in the other category. This was not a concious thing, it was just how it was. My male friends' girl friends were somewhat of an exception, but they were off limits strictly out of respect for my male friends. Still, if I wanted to be around one of those, it was because something about her was sexually attractive. If I wanted a fishing buddy, or someone to go rock climbing with, I was finding a guy that I would not have to worry about getting hurt, falling behind, etc. I did get introduced to many girls through a friend's girl, but again, the result was always one of the two catagories.
 
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Zeknichov

Pigeon
I find women have 0 insight to offer regarding dating. Women just don't need to think about dating as hard as men because it comes much easier to them. Most women have it figured out. Be good looking and submissive. If they do that they'll get guys no problem. The women who struggle with finding men only struggle because they want to find a man who values them for something other than those two qualities which they'll never find. Or they are 30yo and still think they deserve the super hot guy they had sex with when they were 19yo. They've realized it's their looks but refuse to make any adjustments to their expectations given the mistakes they made giving up their chastity and sleeping around early in life. That means these women are more or less just mad at men but they don't need to do any thinking because they've got it figured out already. Usually they just buy some cats/dogs, expensive sex toys and read romance novels. Women's dating advice usually amounts to just be yourself and you'll find someone out there for you eventually.

As for getting setup on dates from female friends? That never happens. There's a reason you two aren't dating and that reason usually is the crux of why any setup is going to fail. Typically, attractive women don't need to be setup by people at all. The people women will set you up with are the black sheep of their social groups. Think like face defects, fat, terrible personalities etc...

I would say if you're really young like 12-25yo, it can be beneficial for guys to have female friends to get a female perspective into things as you learn and grow as a man. Eventually though, you will grow out of the female perspective because you'll keep developing and they won't. If a woman has dating figured out and wants a man she already has a man and likely isn't going to be friends with you much longer.
 

RoadKill

Pigeon
I make friends easily wherever I go, both male and female.

When I was a single dad in the church, I was like a big brother to all the college age girls in the church. They really helped me as a single dad with a six year old daughter at the time. I learned to braid hair and how to shop for girls clothing. They were also like big sisters to my daughter. They had sleepovers and would do fun activities and crafts that I, as a man, could not do.

The women who were single moms, and my age, were good talkers after my divorce. I wasn't interested in dating any of them, but I was in a very emotional state back then, and they knew it. I had a lot of things to sort through during that time. One of them pinged me a couple of weeks ago and I haven't seen her for 15 years. She was one of the best friends I could have ever had.

My female friends had nothing to do with hooking up and everything to do with figuring out life as a Christian.

RK
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Women know by instinct why men want to have female friends. They know that you will be using the friendship as a mating strategy to find other women. Women see such men as beta. Women are like shadows, they chase you when you move away from them. They don't like men even if they get a hint of the act of men chasing them. It just shows that the man is not confident enough to find a mate on his own terms
Elaborate. Because it was never my experience.
 
I really think you should not have any female friends that you would have sex with if given the chance to do so. By friend I mean someone you plan activities with on a regular basis, talk to on the phone with regularly or message regularly. By all means have lots of female acquaintances, but those should be surface level relationships at best.

The reason I believe this is that while you may have great self control to not act on your urges should the opportunity present itself, the underlying sexual tension will color every interaction you have with this person. Certainly women you find unattractive could fall into this category, but careful it's not a "reverse friend zone" situation where said woman finds YOU attractive and may have her interactions with you colored by that underlying intent.

Also, consider this from the perspective of having a wife or LTR with a girl who has close relationships with a male friend. What if she had dated this person at one point, or somehow you knew she found this person sexually attractive. Call me insecure if you want, but why dangle the temptation? With temptation there is risk to succumb to the temptation even for the most stalwart person. A smart and respectful wife or girlfriend would be careful of putting herself in a situation where the attraction could override her better judgement.

Knowing the power our sex drives have over us, I really think the men of old were on to something in keeping activities between men and women separate.
 

rukawa

Newbie
I have more female friends than male friends. Funnily I find that I can be myself more with women....I tend to use a lot of sexual humour, objectify women regularly, express sexist sentiments often. The women who are my friends find this pretty funny.

Anyways I think you shouldn't focus on whether your friends are female or male. Focus on having a life. If female friends can contribute to that then great. For instance, I got to concerts with one of my female friends...she is funny and we usually have a lot to joke about.

Here is the thing, if you don't have a life and focus all your efforts on meeting women then you will be doomed. I think its a bad idea to organize your life around a single objective like meeting women. It makes you life empty.

For instance, Roosh spent all his time chasing women and then realized the happiest moments in his life were when he spent time with his sister. Surround yourself with things you enjoy and a great life. If you don't you will find that when you go after women you will tend to suffer from periodic bouts of deep depression and anxiety repeatedly.
 
I find women have 0 insight to offer regarding dating. Women just don't need to think about dating as hard as men because it comes much easier to them. Most women have it figured out. Be good looking and submissive. If they do that they'll get guys no problem. The women who struggle with finding men only struggle because they want to find a man who values them for something other than those two qualities which they'll never find. Or they are 30yo and still think they deserve the super hot guy they had sex with when they were 19yo. They've realized it's their looks but refuse to make any adjustments to their expectations given the mistakes they made giving up their chastity and sleeping around early in life. That means these women are more or less just mad at men but they don't need to do any thinking because they've got it figured out already. Usually they just buy some cats/dogs, expensive sex toys and read romance novels. Women's dating advice usually amounts to just be yourself and you'll find someone out there for you eventually.

As for getting setup on dates from female friends? That never happens. There's a reason you two aren't dating and that reason usually is the crux of why any setup is going to fail. Typically, attractive women don't need to be setup by people at all. The people women will set you up with are the black sheep of their social groups. Think like face defects, fat, terrible personalities etc...

I would say if you're really young like 12-25yo, it can be beneficial for guys to have female friends to get a female perspective into things as you learn and grow as a man. Eventually though, you will grow out of the female perspective because you'll keep developing and they won't. If a woman has dating figured out and wants a man she already has a man and likely isn't going to be friends with you much longer.
I don't think this is the case neccesarily. I've had at least two instances where a female friend helped me get a girl. My last year in high school a girl in my class set me up with a cute asian girl who was her best friend. The only thing you could say that made her a black sheep was she never had a boyfriend apparently and was a virgin, although those are only good things.
Another time a female friend of mine who I had had sex with before told one of her friends I was good in bed and I ended up banging that girl for a few months. She was also quite attractive
 
Women can be fun to have a friends, as long as you put them in a different bucket than your guy friends. You should never view a woman as one of your best or closest friends, even if she is. Always approach the friendship with a short term view and keep a careful watch on the balance of how much you are putting into the friendship vs how much you are getting out.
 

Geremia

Sparrow
Is male-female friendship even possible outside of marriage? It would seem not because, as Aristotle and St. Thomas say, friendship must be based on commonalities (shared common goods), and men and women are unequals. However, marriage is the highest form of human friendship because of its duration / indissolubility:
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there seems to be the greatest friendship between husband and wife, for they are united not only in the act of fleshly union, which produces a certain gentle association even among beasts, but also in the partnership of the whole range of domestic activity.
The best treatment of male-female friendships I've seen comes from the last chapter of The Mystery of Love for the Single: A Guide for Those Who Follow the Single Vocation in the World by Unger, O.F.M. Cap. Although the book targets people living the chaste single life, what he says about male-female friendships applies, mutatis mutandis, to those in any state of life.

Breaking Boundaries: Male/Female Friendship in Early Christian Communities is another interesting read; it proves that males and females can have friendships if they are united by spiritual (not carnal/sexual) things.
One area that isn't explored in the book is "the possibility of extramarital and non-sexual friendships between men and women"; there seems to be little research into that. All the cases of heterosexual friendships (at least in early Christianity) are between celibates.
 
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DanielH

Robin
All of the theoretical benefits of female friends are present when you have good married friends, or at least ones in long term relationships. For example, I have one friend who is an actual Roman Catholic (correctly thinks using condoms and birth control is wrong, goes to church every week) and because of this and his very serious attitude, he has a hard time finding women. All his friends are married or engaged men and my fiancee even set him up with one of her friends. Another example of this was when I was single, my friend's girl took me aside at a party and told me I need to shave my mustache because it looked terrible (I did not shave it).
 
Regarding direct connections, my female friends have been very willing to help me find someone, but tend not to know anyone they could offer. It is rather humorous, in fact, that even my lady friends lament how difficult it is to find other quality women (for friendship, in their case).
 
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