Roosh and his American women posts

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IshGibbor

 
Banned
DanDeLaCruz said:
Guys, it all comes down to environmental factors that are out of your control. Anything that is external to you (male-female ratios) is out of your control, and the truth is, when it comes to dating environments, and the male-famale dynamic, your working with a handicap in most places in the USA. The aspect of game and personal developement is all great and it does help, but it's only 50% of the equation, and in some cases, I would argue a lot less. The other part of the equation involves the dating environment locally, and big macro factors, that inevitabily trickle down into micro factors.

I'll just name a few factors that influence most dating environments in the USA and that are far different in other places. Keep in mind there are many factors, and most of them are not in your favor in the USA:

1. Feminism - Feminism was born in the USA and it's far overshot it's original intension of giving females equal rights. You all know the deal here, I don't have to go any further into this one.

2. Obesity - The USA is the fatest country in the world per capita. And the problem is that many of those places like Alabama, Arkansas, etc. Those small town places have the highest obesity rates. I'm sure you'll be able to find some sweat girls like Mixx says, but there is no comparison to small towns, or big cities in other places like Eastern Europe and Latin America.

3. Ratios - I've never heard anyone talk about this except me, but the main reason the ratios are so off in countries like the USA is because of the economy. Do you guys know how many millions and millions of men have immigrated to the USA over the past 30 - 50 years. The ratio of male to female migration is insane. Truth is that when it comes to migration the first ones to take the plunge are the men, the women stay home to take care of the families, which is why if you step into any immigrant community in the USA, italian, irish (ever watched gangs of new york?), polish, latin american, jamaican, etc the ratios are horrible. It's even worse if you live in highly industrialized ares where there is a bigger demand for male labor, like places with a lot of factories, big ports, construction, etc. Did you guys see pictures of those immigrants that got killed in mexico while they were trying to cross the boarder? The ratio was like 30 guys and a couple of women, that's just how it is and has been in the USA for decades. It's just a fact of life, the bees go where the honey is, and that's the same reason countries like Germany and England, and even Spain have ratio problems (maybe not as much as the USA) it's because their men don't leave because of the good economy and more men come because of the good economy. BTW most of the men who immigrate are young single guys, and even if they aren't single, you think they don't want to chase pussy while they're here?

I'll just throw in an extra environmental factor for you and this one applies to Latin America.

4. Height - I'll use Roosh as an example. I'm not sure how tall Roosh is, but he's probably 6' tall. Well while traveling through europe, especially in those northern european countries Roosh won't have a height advantage, in fact he might feel a bit short compared to what he feels in the USA because the average height in these countries is very high. But in Latin America the average height is a lot less. In some countries like ecuador, if you're 6' tall, your like a giant. We all know that height is a BIG BIG factor in your attraction to women. So this is just another environmental factor.

All these things and many many more that I haven't mentioned for the sake of not writing a book on this thread, are out of your control, but what you can control is which environment you place yourself in. You can learn all the game you want, you're not going to get laid the way you'd like at west point or an engrineering school, on USA naval ship, or in prision. These are exagerated examples but you get my point: environment matters.

So let me finish off with this thought. Put yourself if the sweat pants and flip flops of an attractive American girl in any big city USA. First off, a lot of the other women are fat, so they can't compete with you, second the ratio of men to women is already off so another factor in your favor, but factor in that as a woman you'll be able to select from a large variety of gene pools without having to step one foot outside of your city let alone the country. Also since the supply of attractive women is so low and the demand so high, the men will have to overcompensate which means they'll work harder to stand out by either hitting the gym more, trying to earn more money, or learning game, this means the women will have an even better pool of men to pick from, and obviously this means that attractive women will also become jaded, conceited, picky, cheating, bitches, etc...

Many other women will gain weight and let themselves go, with no shortage of men to date. If there is no punishment for being obese, why would they care? It's a lot easier to just let yourself go and get fat than to have to diet and hit the gym. Back to the attractive girl, any man she dates will have to stand out of the pack by either being really rich, really good looking, have game, or have a good enough combination of these factors in order to beat out the rest of the guys competing for her attention. Pick a number and get on that line boy! make sure you jugle those things really good, and doo that little dance for her, maybe she'll pick you.

I'd rather be in a place where it's not such an uphill battle, where I'm in demand and in short supply, not the other way around.

Guys, don't get me wrong, when I'm in the USA I give it my best shot, and probably do better than 80% of the men out there, but it is what is, when it comes to women, other places are better.

Well, as a man you should love competition. Being afraid to lose is bad for your game and is just flat out unattractive. I am glad you offered a good snap shot of where things are going in America as it relates to dating;however, I think the main edge many guys can have is looks and a flat out understanding of how women work, which the vast majority of men can't really put a finger on. Knowledge is power.

Ish
 

Kish

Pelican
Gold Member
Tuthmosis said:
by having lived in an especially miserable, women-arrid, shit-hole-of-a-place that is the Greater DC area.

And, having gotten pretty good at finding the remaining girl-oases left in the US, let me tell you one thing: none of them are anywhere near DC.

+1


[/quote]

Well, as a man you should love competition. Being afraid to lose is bad for your game and is just flat out unattractive. I
Ish
[/quote]

I love competition but I'd prefer to be competing for 9s and 10s as opposed to 6s and 7s. Most of us don't live in LA/Miami or NYC so it's discouraging.
 

UrbanNerd

Pelican
I have to say that I like the greater DC area. A bunch of lonely women with money, houses a good credit with not enough men (of similar level) to go around.
 
IshGibbor said:
Well, as a man you should love competition. Being afraid to lose is bad for your game and is just flat out unattractive.

Competition is good and it makes you sharper, but I'd argue the USA is probably one of the toughest dating environments in the world. You have to realize that most men will never reach their desired goals with women in this type of environment. I like to make the analogy to pro sports. How many guys do you know that made it a pro sports team? 1 maybe two? probably none... How many guys try? millions? The odds aren't really in your favor, and yeah some guys make it, but most guys don't... Shit, if you wanna climb up an 90% slope your entire life go ahead be my guest, but remember even though women are a large aspect of happines for men, what about other things?

When you're in such a competitive environment it forces you dedicate a lot of time and energy to beating other guys out. What's the oportunity cost of that? And what's the ROI? Another guy on this thread pointed out that he'd rather compete for 9s and 10s instead of 6s and sevens. I'm with him... Maybe, I can put in the work to consistently get 9s and 10s in the USA but will it really be worth the long term effort when I can just change my environment?

Think of it in terms of a business... When you start a business you want to make your profit as soon as possible. If you're selling IPODSs and you know one neighborhood is flooded with IPODs and you say to yourself ok, "I'm gonna here because the competition is crazy and I want to prove to myself I can do it, it will make me a better business man..." Will it? Maybe.. or is that the sign of a bad business man? or do you go to a new middle class neighborhood that doesn't have anyone selling them IPODs and they're dieing to buy them? What's the better business decision?

I've done my time in the USA, when I go to Latin America I have an edge becauase of the tough environment I've lived in. It's made me stronger and I'm thankful for that. Like some wierd darwinian enviroment where a species develops extra trait because of the compeition, and when you introduce this species into a less competitive enviroment it gobles up everything.

But there comes a point of diminishing returns. Once you learned what you need from here, you can go to other parts of the world and sit back and relax and let the women do the work while you concentrate on other things, like running a business, or buildinng a business or hobbies etc. etc. Many guys realize that, but we're tied down to USA for financial reasons (at least for now).

The problem in a place like the USA is that if you concentrate your time on a career or business you'll either have to lock in a relationship or go womenless because the competition for quality women is so stiff that it you might not have enough time and energy for both, especially if your just starting out. When you go somewhere where you don't have to dedicate so much time and energy to this stuff, you can concentrate on other things or just ejoy yourself more.

So here's my last thought on this.

I remember reading in one of Roosh's blog posts or maybe it was his book that in the time he's been in Brazil he's dated 2 of the hotest women in his entire life. So out of his top 3 girls, two of those were in Brazil... Now think about that. Roosh has spent most of his life in the USA, yet he spends a bit over 6 months in Brazil and bangs two of the hotest women on his list ever... I know what Roosh is talking about, I've seen similar returns on investment in Latin America, not just in Brazil...
 

rudebwoy

Peacock
Gold Member
Ask yourself when was the last time you saw a genuine 9 or 10 walking in your town. Roosh actually managed to date two in six months in his time in Brazil. When you do find a decent girl in North America, then you have to worry about cockblockers, being her friends or some dude that has the hots for her.
The comment about liking competition is simply absurd, why do you want to compete for women. They should compete for you, assuming you are a decent person with nice qualities. Girls in my city don't make eye contact like they use too, they only go out to clubs to get noticed and have guys buy them drinks.
Shit when I was on a "date" in Sweden, my date would not allow me to buy her a herbal tea. Plus she was half my age and happy to be with me.
Yes we have a decent quality of life in North America but the social scene sucks and will only get worse.
 

JayMillz

Hummingbird
Excellent dialogue, gentlemen. I pretty much concur with the general sentiment and have written off the USA for many of the reasons discussed here. No need to limit yourself, especially when you can get a better ROI somewhere else. Life is too short for avoidable BS.
 

speakeasy

Peacock
Gold Member
It sounds like we can conclude that ROI is better in some other countries, but how many of you are willing to permanently move to another country and leave your friends and families behind? I can see taking a mini-retirement to another country to have some fun for a few months, but I just don't see myself putting down my roots in Estonia or Ukraine anytime soon.
 

MiXX

Crow
Well, I'll be 40 in 4 short years. I have focused my life on being successful at what makes me money.

I for one WILL ex-pat to Colombia. At the age of 40, I'll have college girls competing for me; as far as girls over 30 go, hell I may not even give them the time of day.

Mixx
 

Luckystar

Pelican
DanDeLaCruz said:
IshGibbor said:
Well, as a man you should love competition. Being afraid to lose is bad for your game and is just flat out unattractive.

Competition is good and it makes you sharper, but I'd argue the USA is probably one of the toughest dating environments in the world. You have to realize that most men will never reach their desired goals with women in this type of environment. I like to make the analogy to pro sports. How many guys do you know that made it a pro sports team? 1 maybe two? probably none... How many guys try? millions? The odds aren't really in your favor, and yeah some guys make it, but most guys don't... Shit, if you wanna climb up an 90% slope your entire life go ahead be my guest, but remember even though women are a large aspect of happines for men, what about other things?

When you're in such a competitive environment it forces you dedicate a lot of time and energy to beating other guys out. What's the oportunity cost of that? And what's the ROI? Another guy on this thread pointed out that he'd rather compete for 9s and 10s instead of 6s and sevens. I'm with him... Maybe, I can put in the work to consistently get 9s and 10s in the USA but will it really be worth the long term effort when I can just change my environment?

Think of it in terms of a business... When you start a business you want to make your profit as soon as possible. If you're selling IPODSs and you know one neighborhood is flooded with IPODs and you say to yourself ok, "I'm gonna here because the competition is crazy and I want to prove to myself I can do it, it will make me a better business man..." Will it? Maybe.. or is that the sign of a bad business man? or do you go to a new middle class neighborhood that doesn't have anyone selling them IPODs and they're dieing to buy them? What's the better business decision?

I've done my time in the USA, when I go to Latin America I have an edge becauase of the tough environment I've lived in. It's made me stronger and I'm thankful for that. Like some wierd darwinian enviroment where a species develops extra trait because of the compeition, and when you introduce this species into a less competitive enviroment it gobles up everything.

But there comes a point of diminishing returns. Once you learned what you need from here, you can go to other parts of the world and sit back and relax and let the women do the work while you concentrate on other things, like running a business, or buildinng a business or hobbies etc. etc. Many guys realize that, but we're tied down to USA for financial reasons (at least for now).

The problem in a place like the USA is that if you concentrate your time on a career or business you'll either have to lock in a relationship or go womenless because the competition for quality women is so stiff that it you might not have enough time and energy for both, especially if your just starting out. When you go somewhere where you don't have to dedicate so much time and energy to this stuff, you can concentrate on other things or just ejoy yourself more.

So here's my last thought on this.

I remember reading in one of Roosh's blog posts or maybe it was his book that in the time he's been in Brazil he's dated 2 of the hotest women in his entire life. So out of his top 3 girls, two of those were in Brazil... Now think about that. Roosh has spent most of his life in the USA, yet he spends a bit over 6 months in Brazil and bangs two of the hotest women on his list ever... I know what Roosh is talking about, I've seen similar returns on investment in Latin America, not just in Brazil...

Dan, I read you posts and I think you do a good job comparing American girls to the top half. But the undermentioned side of the story is that there are FAR worse places.

Spend a year in India, Saudia Arabia, Niger....much much worse for quality and quantity. Steep challenges. Even in Latin America, there are some areas (Ecuador comes to mind), the girls are known to be monsters. In Europe, you could argue Italy and Portugal are lost causes.

I agree, American girls are nothing notable. But, there is a clear confirmation bias in your views when you neglect the bottom half. I see the U.S. as an unmentionable. Notable for nothing. Mediocre for quality and quantity. Let's keep perspective.

I d also mention, the non-career oriented lifestyle (for lack of a better term) is good for an individual, but bad for the whole. The global economy has never been so competitive. Education, innovation, and productivity has never been in so much demand. Career driven cultures typically are the most prosperous. Whether this equates to happiness is another debate.
 

JayMillz

Hummingbird
I think one would be an underachiever if he went around patting himself on the back because there are people that are worse off than he is. The Taco Bell analogy was right on point. If you can afford to eat steak and you enjoy it, why settle for hamburger or Spam?
 

theIVth

 
Banned
speakeasy said:
It sounds like we can conclude that ROI is better in some other countries, but how many of you are willing to permanently move to another country and leave your friends and families behind? I can see taking a mini-retirement to another country to have some fun for a few months, but I just don't see myself putting down my roots in Estonia or Ukraine anytime soon.

I agree

Ive been checking out this blog for a few months now and I dont agree with this "totally isolating myself, living my life as a rolling stone, and going to the outer most 4 corners of the earth" just for some pussy.

I could see visiting everyonce in a while. But totally leaving all my friends and family to just chase pussy all over the globe is not appealing to me.

At the end of the day its just not that serious. But thats just me.
 

subutai

Woodpecker
theIVth said:
speakeasy said:
It sounds like we can conclude that ROI is better in some other countries, but how many of you are willing to permanently move to another country and leave your friends and families behind? I can see taking a mini-retirement to another country to have some fun for a few months, but I just don't see myself putting down my roots in Estonia or Ukraine anytime soon.

I agree

Ive been checking out this blog for a few months now and I dont agree with this "totally isolating myself, living my life as a rolling stone, and going to the outer most 4 corners of the earth" just for some pussy.

I could see visiting everyonce in a while. But totally leaving all my friends and family to just chase pussy all over the globe is not appealing to me.

At the end of the day its just not that serious. But thats just me.

It's not for the women. It's for the women and for a lifestyle that's a step above the North American way of life.

At least, that's the large appeal for me. I'd never live in Russia for example, even if I were to get laid every day of the week there.
 

Luckystar

Pelican
JayMillz said:
I think one would be an underachiever if he went around patting himself on the back because there are people that are worse off than he is. The Taco Bell analogy was right on point. If you can afford to eat steak and you enjoy it, why settle for hamburger or Spam?

If you can afford to eat steak, then go and do it. I d respect that. Instead, we have fairly large section of the forum time after time complaining about their American experiences. Hardly anyone even argues otherwise. The dialogue does have merit but it has become altogether very tired and very lame.

Some of us actually do have success with world class hotties in NA cities.

No back pats for you if you are crying about your failures in NA. Take solice and remember there are worse off places to be. Hopefully your lives will get better.
 

Ajiaco

Robin
How much of this is a symptom of how unsatisfying a lot of people's lives are outside of girls in North America?

If you have a shitty job, and are kind of bored in general, and then getting girls is not pleasant or working out for you very much, well, what is there to look forward to?

I get the feeling that because of who Roosh is, and the reason we all read him, we tend to focus on the "getting girls as the key to happiness" aspect of our lives in this forum, but if your life is kind of tedious in general, not getting any is just going to compound all of your frustration.

The people who are complaining about gringas in this thread: Do you find the rest of your lives in North America as unsatisfying as your interactions with women? The USA certainly has its charms, but theres a LOT of unhappy people there doing what they think they are supposed to be doing instead of what they want to do, and they don't know why they feel so empty when they studied hard and got the good job and nice place to live and it doesn't equal contentment. Then these people go out to bars not really happy with their lives, and unsurprisingly they strike out because they can't suppress the bitterness they feel inside when they are trying to spit game. Maybe I am projecting a little, but I know plenty of guys in the US with this particular problem, and the complaints about the women are usually a symptom of something bigger that they never want to explore too much, lest the fragile psychological structure of their existence come crashing down in a big heap with nothing to replace it.

I have my own issues with American girls, but I also don't think about them very often because I simply don't have to, and that has made all the difference in the world.
 

rudebwoy

Peacock
Gold Member
Luckystar - no one is even talking about or thinking about India, Saudi Arabia or Niger (is that still a country). The post is about American women and a few members prefer to travel/spend time in other places. If you do well in America, well that is good for you. Personally, I like American women but I have never spent much time around them. I do however feel if they like you then it is easy work.
If I had a choice though then it would be European women any day, some members rave about Colombia. To each is own.
 

JayMillz

Hummingbird
I think some good macro observations have been made in this thread. For those that want to provide pushback, I'd love to see the same kind of observations/logic/arguments etc. In favor of American women. How much of all this information is an anomaly and how much is generalizable?
 

oldnemesis

Ostrich
DanDeLaCruz said:
I like to make the analogy to pro sports. How many guys do you know that made it a pro sports team? 1 maybe two? probably none... How many guys try? millions?

Your analogy looks flawed as soon as you consider the fact that vast majority of guys are not really trying to make it a pro sport team, they do it because it is fun for them. A lot of people who compete KNOW they'll never make a first place ever; they just do it for getting their skills evaluated in the real world environment, and to find out ways to make themselves better. Getting the first place or getting into a pro sport team is not a target goal for pretty much everyone I know.

The problem in a place like the USA is that if you concentrate your time on a career or business you'll either have to lock in a relationship or go womenless because the competition for quality women is so stiff that it you might not have enough time and energy for both, especially if your just starting out. When you go somewhere where you don't have to dedicate so much time and energy to this stuff, you can concentrate on other things or just ejoy yourself more.

What you're saying is interesting - apparently in USA one has to concentrate on career, while in Brazil one doesn't have to? I don't see any logic here. You still have to pay the bills even in Brazil, and while your bills may be lower than in US, so will be your options to make money there. This is even more important if you look on it in a long-term perspective - like, what you gonna do in your 40s, 50s, 60s? It is much harder to start making money at that age, and if you're poor, your options are extremely limited.
 

speakeasy

Peacock
Gold Member
rudebwoy said:
Luckystar - no one is even talking about or thinking about India, Saudi Arabia or Niger (is that still a country). The post is about American women and a few members prefer to travel/spend time in other places. If you do well in America, well that is good for you. Personally, I like American women but I have never spent much time around them. I do however feel if they like you then it is easy work.
If I had a choice though then it would be European women any day, some members rave about Colombia. To each is own.

America is a huge place and there is a lot of regional variation. In a place like Utah, the average woman is white, traditional, religious Mormon and is probably married by 23 with kids. In NYC, women can be of any race, they are probably very cosmopolitan, not that religious if at all, career-driven and very likely put off marriage and kids till the 30s. And in places like Florida, Texas and California you have a lot of Latin women who give it up but are very family-oriented that mix the Latin culture into the equation. Many of them are against abortion. Then you have black girls, many of which are known to give it up pretty easy and a huge number have kids out of wedlock by 30. Sometimes I'm not sure if can sum up America women easily because there's a lot of variation by region, culture, race lifestyle and income. White girls can be anything from SWPL eco-hipsters, to ultra-religious Tea Partiers. Who's America are we talking about?

One good thing to say about America if you live in a major city is that there's such a large variety of girls to approach. In Norway, they are going to be all one ethnicity, all going to be tall and blond, all of them will probably listen to the same music and have the same culture. In America, you can have a taste of everything. So that's one major thing that stands out to me in favor of America. Not that I'm saying here is the best or even great. I just think that's one of our major pluses.
 

rudebwoy

Peacock
Gold Member
Dude have you been to Norway? They are not all tall and blond, in fact they have more brunettes if anything.

Black girls are easy! Where that might be, please tell me.? Would I find the same easy Latin girls in the same place. lol
 

subutai

Woodpecker
Women are not the sole key to happiness and I wouldn't recommend going somewhere you dislike just to get laid. Going to some industrial sh*thole in Ukraine for example and "gaming" women all day long sounds like a total drag to me, not to mention possibly dangerous for your health (physical and mental).

On the other hand, I know a lot of guys out there who prefer Paris to New York; Stockholm to Seattle; Berlin to Los Angeles; Europe to North America; simply for the way of life and vibe that certain European cities offer. Count me as one of those people.

In that case, then being over here makes perfect sense, and if the women are lightyears hotter and more accessible, then it pretty seals the nail in the coffin.

Having said that, we don't live in a binary world. It's not always one city over another, one country over another. I'd much rather be wealthy and employed in NYC than unemployed in Marseilles. I'd rather be self-employed in LA than working as a waiter in a Chinese restaurant in Oslo. I mean, I won't sacrifice "lifestyle" the way I define it just for hot women -- it's just one variable in the equation.
 
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