Roosh Hour #67 – Michael Witcoff (Brother Augustine)

tractor

Woodpecker
Orthodox
"There's not even something close to once saved always saved"

Romans 8:29​

For those whom he FOREKNEW he also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Ephesians 1:4​

He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

Yes, there's not even something close to once saved always saved. What's Jewish about this claim?

Feel free to post your selective verse-picking that doesn't prove anything in this thread:
 

Psyche

Chicken
Man... this one got to me.

I just joined the Catholic Church last year. I've been going to the Latin Mass. I've been trying to read about Church History and the saints and the faith. So much providential stuff has happened to me in the last 22 months. But so much pain and sorrow too.

I just don't know what to think anymore. Vatican 2 never sat right with me, but there were ways to make sense of it (for a while at least... not so much the last 3 months or so).

"Francis is bad, but there have been bad popes before. At least Benedict was based. Well, I guess I'm a little uncomfortable with Benedict too, but JP2 is a Saint! That is without error... except what about ecumenism? And him knowing about McCarrick? And what about Assisi? And how is John the 23 a saint?" (and on and on and on).

How can I learn more about Orthodoxy without sinning (putting my faith in jeopardy according to the catechism). And on a personal level, I'm not sure how much time I have left, but I don't want to find myself outside the true Church. Nothing is more important than salvation. Yet, I'm no longer even confident that I know how to pray correctly or effectively.

Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner. I really do want to make You happy. I know I'm terrible at listening. I know I'm still a slave to many passions, but thank You for freeing me from many big ones as well.
It's fine to question your faith, to pray and read more. As a Catholic, I appreciate the call to repent that Roosh is putting out there. That being said, I certainly wouldn't consider leaving the Catholic Church for Orthodoxy based on these discussions. Obviously, the Orthodox Church isn't even a unified body, Roosh was talking about how he's glad he left the Armenian Orthodox Church for the Russian Orthodox Church outside of Russia. In his conversation with Brother Augustine, the Brother was speculating that the Greek Orthodox might reunite with the Catholic Church and form a one-world religion of Anti-Christ. (By the way, that is a super Protestant idea, unique to some Protestant groups, that the Roman Pope is the Anti-Christ. That's like, Jack Chick type stuff). The point is, it seems like within Orthodoxy you have factions that are at odds with one another, I am assuming the disagreements center around Ethnicity, but I don't really know a lot about Orthodoxy. I was surprised that they look at some factions as almost Schismatic.

Just my opinion, but from what I hear among some of these "Ortho-Bro" types sounds like a lot of Conspiracy theory, almost like Coast-to-Coast AM type stuff. There's a lot going on in this sphere that would cause me to discount a lot of what is being put forward as "Truth". Rome has a lot of problems, always has. There are over 1 billion Catholics world-wide. That's a lot of different people and opinions to keep under one Holy and Apostolic Church. Don't abandon your faith, certainly not for stuff you hear or read here. There are a ton of great Catholic resources and thinkers out there and they don't come with all of the worlds-gonna end and I know what's really going on behind the scenes type of hype. God Bless-keep praying.
 

iop890

Peacock
Gold Member
It's fine to question your faith, to pray and read more. As a Catholic, I appreciate the call to repent that Roosh is putting out there. That being said, I certainly wouldn't consider leaving the Catholic Church for Orthodoxy based on these discussions. Obviously, the Orthodox Church isn't even a unified body, Roosh was talking about how he's glad he left the Armenian Orthodox Church for the Russian Orthodox Church outside of Russia.

Yet another Catholic trying to claim that a non-chalcedonian church that schismed 600 years before Catholics and Orthodox split is a sign of disunity within Orthodoxy. How on Earth is that the case?
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Michael, a couple of things I took away

- the point about not having a role model as young men. Very recognizable, my father loved me dearly and I him, but he wasn't a role model knowing how the world worked and teaching me these things. In fact I was delivered to the culture. Which resulted in my crash obviously. However, my father too was misled as the first post-boomer generation that grew up with the ideal of freedom as sin and understanding later in life that they didn't have any foundation for anything. For them it's a tragedy too.
- the idea of willingness to please God, the carrott, instead of the stick, being forced to obey like in Islam. That really resonated with me. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, but only that, the beginning, there's so much more. Ideally we come from a state where we abstain from what we know we musn't do out of love for God, not fear.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Very good conversation but I still do not trust a jew. Assume a jew is wrong until proven right.
So let's see what are going to be the results of his endeavor.
I think he showed his endeavor and made public that he failed too in some aspects. So what would you mean with proven right, by which standards? Didn't see any non genuineness here, we should be happy that for a change a Jew comes to the truth. And even the definition of Jew, is it a race, a spirit... definitely Michael isn't Jewish by spirit anymore :). Watch his interview with EMJ to get an insider look into the Jewish spirit, which Michael underlined for many people he knew.
 

Rivershield

Pigeon
Yes, there's not even something close to once saved always saved. What's Jewish about this claim?

Feel free to post your selective verse-picking that doesn't prove anything in this thread:
I'm confused as to why you thought I said that was a jewish claim. I never said that.
Anyway, I agree with the stuff said in the link you posted, so there's no need for discussion here anymore.
 

Rivershield

Pigeon
I think he showed his endeavor and made public that he failed too in some aspects. So what would you mean with proven right, by which standards? Didn't see any non genuineness here, we should be happy that for a change a Jew comes to the truth. And even the definition of Jew, is it a race, a spirit... definitely Michael isn't Jewish by spirit anymore :). Watch his interview with EMJ to get an insider look into the Jewish spirit, which Michael underlined for many people he knew.
I mean that what he did up till now is not enough to make me trust him. Given what we now know about the involvement of these people in the subversion of western civilization (and by "these people" I mean the jewish race - I do not distinguish between the race the so called jewish spirit), do you seriously think I should trust this guy just because he knows the right christian rethoric to appeal to us?
I refuse.
I don't care what he says. Only time will tell whether or not I can trust him, and you should do the same.
 
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EgoDeath

Robin
I mean that what he did up till now is not enough to make me trust him. Given what we now know about the involvement of these people in the subversion of western civilization (and by "these people" I mean the jewish race - I do not distinguish between the race the so called jewish spirit), do you seriously think I should trust this guy just because he knows the right christian rethoric to appeal to us?
I refuse.
I don't care what he says. Only time will tell whether or not I can trust him, and you should do the same.
qui_cat9e451ece2756e1d5.gif
 

get2choppaaa

Ostrich
I mean that what he did up till now is not enough to make me trust him. Given what we now know about the involvement of these people in the subversion of western civilization (and by "these people" I mean the jewish race - I do not distinguish between the race the so called jewish spirit), do you seriously think I should trust this guy just because he knows the right christian rethoric to appeal to us?
I refuse.
I don't care what he says. Only time will tell whether or not I can trust him, and you should do the same.
So I guess you don't like Paul the Apostle either... or the disciples...
Lord knows those pesky Jewish converts can't be trusted.
 

Rivershield

Pigeon
So I guess you don't like Paul the Apostle either... or the disciples...
Lord knows those pesky Jewish converts can't be trusted.
Did jews at the time of Paul pretend to be christians to subvert it from withim? No, they persecuted it directly.
If someone who persecuted and arrested christians suddenly starts preaching the very thing he persecuted, even suffering retaliation from his former allies, then I would certainly believe his conversion.

But what we are talking about now is some random jewish guy who says what we like to hear. You know, exactly like his kin have done for centuries, and then when they have our trust they stab our backs.

I'm just saying we should have highers standards to trust people from that tribe.
 

get2choppaaa

Ostrich
Did jews at the time of Paul pretend to be christians to subvert it from withim? No, they persecuted it directly.
If someone who persecuted and arrested christians suddenly starts preaching the very thing he persecuted, even suffering retaliation from his former allies, then I would certainly believe his conversion.

But what we are talking about now is some random jewish guy who says what we like to hear. You know, exactly like his kin have done for centuries, and then when they have our trust they stab our backs.

I'm just saying we should have highers standards to trust people from that tribe.
Good luck with that mentality, it's not reflective of any Church tradition that I am aware of, considering all the early Christians that were Jewish... But hey if biological determinism is your thing and you can't see the irony of it being a bit pharisaical then i suppose there's not much else left to say.

Everyone here is hip to the subversive nature of both the communists Jews and neoconservative Jews and metropolitan/globalist jewery... You may remember certain bannings from YouTube...does not mean we can't discern who is and is not on the side of rectitude.

Who are you to be postulating about the genuine or false faith of another person? Other than a keyboard warrior with a Pepe meme, are you involved in the Q larp? I hear they are big on Pepe. You're raidiance is quite effervescent.
 

Tippy

Woodpecker
One question: the guest appeared a bit obsessed with sobriety. Is this a demand of orthodox faith ? I thought some drinking was allowed for Christians, just not drunkenness.
 

Sa6re

Robin
One question: the guest appeared a bit obsessed with sobriety. Is this a demand of orthodox faith ? I thought some drinking was allowed for Christians, just not drunkenness.
The intoxication and drunkenness spoken of is with sin, lust, wrath etc. It’s all a misinterpretation. And the wine drunk in the bible was most probably spiritual wine.
 

lskdfjldsf

Pelican
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
The intoxication and drunkenness spoken of is with sin, lust, wrath etc. It’s all a misinterpretation. And the wine drunk in the bible was most probably spiritual wine.

Paul recommended that Timothy (abstinent) drink wine. There is no Biblical justification for total abstinence.
 

NickK

Woodpecker
Orthodox
One question: the guest appeared a bit obsessed with sobriety. Is this a demand of orthodox faith ? I thought some drinking was allowed for Christians, just not drunkenness.
Indeed, drinking in moderation is allowed. Moderation usually means one glass of wine per meal, in non-fasting days.

But if someone wants to sacrifice alcohol entirely, this is indeed blessed.
 

Parabola

Sparrow
Something strange is happening with this podcast episode on Spotify, it keeps disappearing and reappearing from the listing and when I go to play it nothing happens, this doesn't occur with any other podcasts and is happening on multiple devices. Usually I'd put it down to a bug but it could be that they are trying to interfere with/shadowban Roosh.
 
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