Roosh Hour #67 – Michael Witcoff (Brother Augustine)

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
But I suspect that the reason you reject that Jesus was a Jew is because you don't accept the bible as authoritative anyway. So my arguments aren't really for you but for anyone who might be led astray by your view of history.
Jake, you're not reading or responding to his argument in good faith. What's even more bizarre is that he was a Galilean if you "read the bible", "know history" and consider it all, even up to now.

You'd also have to tell us why the bible constantly states person X did or didn't do Y for "fear of the Jews". When they did (not do) that act, were they fearing Christ?

Certainly not.
 
Jake, you're not reading or responding to his argument in good faith. What's even more bizarre is that he was a Galilean if you "read the bible", "know history" and consider it all, even up to now.

You'd also have to tell us why the bible constantly states person X did or didn't do Y for "fear of the Jews". When they did (not do) that act, were they fearing Christ?

Certainly not.
Not responding in good faith? My man, I gave a sincere answer by providing scripture. He responded in kind. I believe he and I both responded in good faith?

I've concluded that his definition of "Jew" is different from mine and I don't understand how he came to the conclusion he has about that definition. I guess in this Post Post-modern age, you and I are free to believe whatever we want, right? I mean, what is truth anymore?
 
Look, I can't speak for all the "anti-Semites" on this forum, but I am almost certain that 99% of them don't have a problem with Jesus' and Apostles' DNA. It's not about that and never was. My issue with saying things like "Jesus was Jewish" is the fact that it's part of the whole "Judeo-Christian" fake narrative that had not been heard of for the first 1950 years of Christianity and which was imposed on us very recently, mainly to strengthen the post-WW2 agenda picturing the modern Jews as the only victims of the war. Victims at the hand of Christians, of course. How horrible it must have been! After all, we're pretty much the same, we share the same values, same culture...
I'll be more than happy to say Jesus was Jewish as long as the modern Jews are called neo-Pharisees or something in that vein. But because the latter is not going to happen then I will strongly object conflating the two as it distorts the truth quite drastically.

And to be 100% clear. I do not have a problem with @MichaelWitcoff being ethnically Jewish! My only problem with him is that he's not Catholic!
;)
 
I recommend reading "The Religion of the Apostles" by Fr. Stephen de Young, which clarifies the Jew --> Christian transition. In short the faith was always the main thing, and today's Jews have literally nothing in common with the Second Temple Jews of Jesus' time, who believed in at least a binitarian Godhead of Father and Son. The Church is Israel, not a new Israel, and we are part of the same family as the people who were led out of Egypt, and today's Jews are imposters that do not share the faith of Christ, or even the faith of the average Judean or Pharisee living in Jerusalem at that time. The Church is the fulfillment of the prophecies which promised a return of the ten lost tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel.

The Old Testament is veiled Christianity in reality. As our LORD himself said that the Tanakh was about himself. There were various types of the foreshadowings of Christ. And the far more obvious symbology of Christ in the Sacrificial system.

The Sin offering is composed of a whole burnt offering and the shedding of blood of another sacrifice of the sin offering

I believe the whole burnt offering of the Bull and other Animals on the Bronze Altar symbolizes the 3 hours darkness on the Cross. In effect God pouring out his Wrath on Jesus Christ. Basically the 2nd Death. When Hell come to the Son of God as he suffered the equivalent for all eternity for all our sins on the cross.

And the other animal was also killed and bled of his blood but a smaller portion was burnt at the altar. That blood was carried inside the Holy Place and sprinkled before the curtain 7 times. This symbolized the 1st Death. The physical death of our LORD after the Wrath was complete when our LORD said "It is finished"(John 19:30).

Not to mention the frequent appearances and actions of the Angel of the LORD who is also the LORD himself.
 
“Paul wasn’t a Jew, the Jews are from the Pharisee line!”

Some of you could really use a Bible Study or two…

Don't you be tricking us with your Jewjitsu. :D
th


:laughter:
 

Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
A large portion of modern Jews are believed to be descendants of the nomadic Khazars, who had converted to Judaism sometime around the 8th century.

Ashkenazi Jews are inbred Europeans. Most of them are descended from Roman Jews who took local wives and migrated into France and Germany (Ashkenazi just means German/Rhineland), and when exiled from Germany were invited into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth because they were good middlemen for the Polish nobility.

Arthur Koestler was the nutbag who came up with the Khazar theory. He came up with a lot of stupid theories (Jay Dyer claims he wrote about water fluoridation to feminize/sterilize men but I haven't read about it personally). I bought a book of his essays a few months ago at a thrift store and he was pretty... special? I also read "Darkness at Noon" and that's a worthwhile read (Soviet trials).
 
Ashkenazi Jews are inbred Europeans. Most of them are descended from Roman Jews who took local wives and migrated into France and Germany (Ashkenazi just means German/Rhineland), and when exiled from Germany were invited into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth because they were good middlemen for the Polish nobility.

Arthur Koestler was the nutbag who came up with the Khazar theory. He came up with a lot of stupid theories (Jay Dyer claims he wrote about water fluoridation to feminize/sterilize men but I haven't read about it personally). I bought a book of his essays a few months ago at a thrift store and he was pretty... special? I also read "Darkness at Noon" and that's a worthwhile read (Soviet trials).
I noticed that some of them look "wrong" like the shape of their heads look mutated.

That must be the consequence of inbreeding.
 

Ah_Tibor

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
I noticed that some of them look "wrong" like the shape of their heads look mutated.

That must be the consequence of inbreeding.

Yeah. They had a population bottleneck and then started marrying "out" so they're not as inbred as they once were.

I think any population that lives close to one another tends to intermingle on some level, though. Isaac Bashevis Singer wrote a novel called "The Slave" where the main character marries a local peasant (Polish) woman but claims she's mute so the other Jews will accept her, but she reverts back to Christianity on her deathbed. (It takes place in the 1600s.) People do migrate.
 

Basilus of Moro

Sparrow
Orthodox
The orthodox church has changed it's position on contraception,I clouding ROCOR. They also have changed their position on divorce and remarriage. Although the chalcedonian which is the branch roosh is a part of has a limit of three marriages which has no theological basis and just comes from emperor Leo. I understand where you are but go to adoration especially. It's been a crazy year of learning for me too. Pray the rosary as well it's really powerful. Also reading Twresaof Avila and John of the cross and Ignatius of Loyola helps. God Bless you!

The Orthodox Church has not changed its position on contraception since the teaching of the Fathers is that contraception is condemned as a mortal sin that cuts one off from God. This is standard teaching in traditional Orthodox countries, and at traditional parishes in the United States, especially any connected with the hesychastic kollyvades Tradition (which is just the historic Orthodox practice). As with any time, but especially in our time, there are wayward hierarchs, priests, laity, and even monastics. For Orthodoxy, this does not present any novel epistemic crisis since as in all times the key is the experience and faith of the saints and Fathers, who gathered at various times in Council, and at other times spoke merely directly of their God-inspired teachings.

Lastly, the Orthodox Church does not permit divorce in the sense that it regards it as a good thing, or regards it as the fruit of the Church. Divorce is always considered a sin, and must be repented of, sometimes with a year or longer of abstention from Holy Communion. Pious priests always, even in the case of terrible sin of the spouse, urge continuing in marriage, but some people do not do obedience, and instead assert their own will. Papists for all intents and purposes have the same reality (of divorce), but invent sophisticated (and sophistical) reasons for thinking the sacrament was somehow incomplete, and therefore the marriage did not exist. Do all the papists with "annulled" marriages (i.e. fake) that are questionably annulled regard these situations as being "bound and loosed" by the papal hierarchy, or as somehow fake annulments?
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Pelican
Orthodox
Enough with this cringe Jewish talk.

It is possible that @MichaelWitcoff is a subversive, but until evidence is provided to that effect, then he is my Brother in Christ.

The fact is that most Jews are not actively trying to subvert Western civilization. This is easily demonstrated: look at how harshly Israel imposed Covid tyranny on its own citizens.

It is the Zionist elite, i.e. organized Jewry -- those who run the investment banks, Hollywood, the news channels, universities, hospitals, the judiciary, politics, and major NGOs -- who are the real problem.
 

Aboulia

Woodpecker
Orthodox
I understand what Jakester is putting forth. He's reading the terms as it says it, and he's not wrong to do so. nor is 2 Right Hands wrong in his desire to create a separation between the Pharisees/Modern Judaism, and the Jews of the Old Testament. But the bickering over the definition of the word Jew is asinine. It shows a disposition to fight with one another rather than to try to understand each other, I don't blame anyone in particular here, I see this more as a symptom of our diseased individualistic society than anything. I think this whole thing could have been avoided, if the term "Anti-Semitic" wasn't used, as it's an unclear term which was created by our enemies used to conflate religion and biological race. Don't use the enemy's language.


You'd also have to tell us why the bible constantly states person X did or didn't do Y for "fear of the Jews". When they did (not do) that act, were they fearing Christ?


Of course not, the individual Jews knew what was right, as the law is written on the heart of men, but they didn't do what was right from fear of the reprisal from the ruling class. The exact same thing It exists today. How many things expressed on this forum are what people actually think or believe? Why are they scared to associate these beliefs with their real name? It's the same thing. Fear of losing income/status in society. So we have "Fear of the Jews", Jesus Christ is indeed "King of the Jews", and the Jews who do not accept Christ as king are lawless murderers of their king. Individual Jews may not know who he is, but as an ethnic group they have denied Christ, and if those who realize who Christ is turn from it, they will be accepted, as St Paul was.

To further illustrate this, this is like conflating the American ruling class with the average American. Who will deny that it's the Americans who were in Afghanistan for drug related purposes? Who will deny that the Americans support Israel militarily and monetarily? Who will deny that America promotes Liberalism abroad? Does this mean you must support flooding nations with drugs to be an American? Does this mean you have to support violent apartheid in the Middle East? Do you have to support America acting as the world enforcers of Liberalism? No. You can be an American without supporting those ideas, and the opposite finding them repugnant.
 

Hermetic Seal

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
This paranoid speculation over Michael being some subversive agent might be justified if he'd appeared out of nowhere, rubbing his hands and mumbling "How do you do, fellow Orthodox!" But he's been part of this forum (and the red pill community in general) for years and years. I know some of you are new here, but he's been posting here for ages. If he was faking it, it would've been obvious a long time ago.
 

The Penitent Man

Woodpecker
I just listened to the interview. I had put it off for a while as I was convinced I would be beaten over the head with piety and dull theological discussions. I have to say that I was wrong and appreciated the humility of both parties in the interview. You presented a lot to consider and I think you came off as good ambassadors of Orthodoxy. I have a lot of questions but I’ll definitely be tuning in further.
 

Marta

Chicken
Woman
Orthodox Catechumen
Originally posted on RooshV.com

brother-augustine-1000.jpg

I interview Michael Witcoff (Brother Augustine), best-selling author of On The Mason And Their Lies, about his conversation to the Orthodox Christian Church from Judaism, sexual temptation, the Protestant doctrines of “once saved always saved” and sola scriptura, theological differences between Orthodoxy and the Catholic Church, the Latin Mass, online evangelism, secularism, and a lot more. Follow him on Youtube and on Gab.

Watch and listen here: https://www.rooshv.com/roosh-hour-67-michael-witcoff-brother-augustine


If you receive value from my videos, please support my work by making a donation or buying my new book.


Listen to the stream in your favorite podcast app. You can also download it or listen below:


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Brother Augustine, you are a gem ♥️
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
I understand what Jakester is putting forth. He's reading the terms as it says it, and he's not wrong to do so. nor is 2 Right Hands wrong in his desire to create a separation between the Pharisees/Modern Judaism, and the Jews of the Old Testament. But the bickering over the definition of the word Jew is asinine. It shows a disposition to fight with one another rather than to try to understand each other, I don't blame anyone in particular here, I see this more as a symptom of our diseased individualistic society than anything. I think this whole thing could have been avoided, if the term "Anti-Semitic" wasn't used, as it's an unclear term which was created by our enemies used to conflate religion and biological race. Don't use the enemy's language.





Of course not, the individual Jews knew what was right, as the law is written on the heart of men, but they didn't do what was right from fear of the reprisal from the ruling class. The exact same thing It exists today. How many things expressed on this forum are what people actually think or believe? Why are they scared to associate these beliefs with their real name? It's the same thing. Fear of losing income/status in society. So we have "Fear of the Jews", Jesus Christ is indeed "King of the Jews", and the Jews who do not accept Christ as king are lawless murderers of their king. Individual Jews may not know who he is, but as an ethnic group they have denied Christ, and if those who realize who Christ is turn from it, they will be accepted, as St Paul was.

To further illustrate this, this is like conflating the American ruling class with the average American. Who will deny that it's the Americans who were in Afghanistan for drug related purposes? Who will deny that the Americans support Israel militarily and monetarily? Who will deny that America promotes Liberalism abroad? Does this mean you must support flooding nations with drugs to be an American? Does this mean you have to support violent apartheid in the Middle East? Do you have to support America acting as the world enforcers of Liberalism? No. You can be an American without supporting those ideas, and the opposite finding them repugnant.
The main point is that what is considered "judaism" today is not what it was in the mainstream sense, in the time of Christ. That is all. What began taking over, as a rejection of Christ at the time until now is what it is, mainstream. That is inarguable, since they deny Christ, and that is the heritage. A "jew" of the first century had reasons to accept Christ, and many did. A jew, currently, by definition, does not. Could a modern "jew" not accept modern judaism? Sure, it happens all the time. He isn't a "jew."

In this sense, what we have put forth (2 Right Hands and I) is accurate.
 

TDD

Chicken
Man... this one got to me.

I just joined the Catholic Church last year. I've been going to the Latin Mass. I've been trying to read about Church History and the saints and the faith. So much providential stuff has happened to me in the last 22 months. But so much pain and sorrow too.

I just don't know what to think anymore. Vatican 2 never sat right with me, but there were ways to make sense of it (for a while at least... not so much the last 3 months or so).

"Francis is bad, but there have been bad popes before. At least Benedict was based. Well, I guess I'm a little uncomfortable with Benedict too, but JP2 is a Saint! That is without error... except what about ecumenism? And him knowing about McCarrick? And what about Assisi? And how is John the 23 a saint?" (and on and on and on).

How can I learn more about Orthodoxy without sinning (putting my faith in jeopardy according to the catechism). And on a personal level, I'm not sure how much time I have left, but I don't want to find myself outside the true Church. Nothing is more important than salvation. Yet, I'm no longer even confident that I know how to pray correctly or effectively.

Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner. I really do want to make You happy. I know I'm terrible at listening. I know I'm still a slave to many passions, but thank You for freeing me from many big ones as well.
Having spent one half my life as a fundamentalist, Church of Christ, I studied Church history and predictably, realized the obvious choice was either Orthodoxy or Catholicism. I visited both, read at least a dozen books and made the choice to become Catholic. I am happy with my decision and would encourage you to listen to both sides of this argument for the true church. Quite frankly, many on this forum are reminding me of my fundamentalist days. As to my thoughts about the true one holy, Catholic and apostolic church? I sincerely don’t know and neither does anyone here. Trust God, ignore the hype and news and work your faith. Ignore silly arguments and trust in Gods mercy.
 
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