Rugby questions thread

nek said:
I'm going to try to find the video, but I saw one where the ball was put on the ground via dropped pass, and players from the team in possession got in front of the ball and created a wall of sorts. No tackle or anything. Would this be obstruction? There wasn't a ball carrier and the whole thing seemed to be treated like a ruck.
It sure sounds like it but it's really impossible to say exactly what happened from your description.

If you can find the video I'll try and decipher it for you.
 

spalex

Kingfisher
Mate I have been watching rugby for most of my life.... and apart from the offside rule, I still find it hard to keep up with why the ref is giving penalties away when there is a ruck.
 
The rules at the ruck change every bloody year.

It's a good thing that in most of the games played across this country, these changes are pretty much ignored!

Nothing seems to have changed at lower levels really for 15 years.
 

T and A Man

Pelican
Gold Member
The video started of with a scrum, but then on the 23:50 we had a line out which formed into a rolling maul.

As long as the ball carrier remains bound to the maul, its legal, even if bound to the very back of the maul and out of reach of the defenders.

The defence has to resist by pushing back the forward progress of the maul, as once it ceases forward progression it must eject (i.e. pass the ball out) from the maul.

Also, defenders can only join the maul at an imaginary line between his side and the most forward of their side, they can't run around to the back of the maul to grab the call carrier.

England under Clive Woodward were famous for this. They took the rules if bind to the extreme, Richard Hill was notorious as part of the "tractor/trailer".
 

nek

Pelican
T and A Man said:
The video started of with a scrum, but then on the 23:50 we had a line out which formed into a rolling maul.

As long as the ball carrier remains bound to the maul, its legal, even if bound to the very back of the maul and out of reach of the defenders.

The defence has to resist by pushing back the forward progress of the maul, as once it ceases forward progression it must eject (i.e. pass the ball out) from the maul.

Also, defenders can only join the maul at an imaginary line between his side and the most forward of their side, they can't run around to the back of the maul to grab the call carrier.

England under Clive Woodward were famous for this. They took the rules if bind to the extreme, Richard Hill was notorious as part of the "tractor/trailer".
I just read the Rugby Laws and wouldn't this qualify as leaving the maul?

Random question but somewhat pertinent: What if the maul rotates, how do the offsides rules apply then?
 

Rush87

Ostrich
nek said:
3) If a defender isn't in contact with a player from the tackled player's team, then a ruck isn't formed according to the rules, yet in the matches I've seen, the players on the defensive side still line up like there is a ruck. What am I missing?
This is because the moment a player is tackled a ruck will invariably be formed. If you don't onside a penalty will be given.

Essentially just look at any tackled player as a ruck. The opposing team must get behind them. This is why space will always open up after a break because the opposing team must race to get onside.

Also: I'm 28. I've played rugby since I was four and I watch games today and am still left clueless about some of the penalties.
 

T and A Man

Pelican
Gold Member
Would what qualify as leaving the maul?

If its what I think you're getting at, the very last guy, in that video, still has contact with teammates in front of him, thus he is still bound to the maul. This is the tractor-trailer bit, where it's very loose contact, and some some tightly bound grunting that you'd expect of the maul.

If the maul rotates, the defender has to peel off and rejoin the maul at an onside position.
 

nek

Pelican
New question: Is it common for the "head and shoulders above hips in a ruck" rule not to be enforced? I was watching the England v. Ireland Six Nations match from this year and in several of the rucks players went to the ground and it didn't seem to be called.
 

Rush87

Ostrich
nek said:
New question: Is it common for the "head and shoulders above hips in a ruck" rule not to be enforced? I was watching the England v. Ireland Six Nations match from this year and in several of the rucks players went to the ground and it didn't seem to be called.
It's almost exclusively never enforced
 

nek

Pelican
Rush87 said:
nek said:
New question: Is it common for the "head and shoulders above hips in a ruck" rule not to be enforced? I was watching the England v. Ireland Six Nations match from this year and in several of the rucks players went to the ground and it didn't seem to be called.
It's almost exclusively never enforced
This is so bizarre about rugby. There's subjectivity in every sport but I've never seen one where explicitly written laws are simply ignored. I was watching another match (it was a super rugby match I think) and guys were joining the maul in front of the rearmost guy in the maul who was in possession of the ball, right in front of the refs, and it was ignored. I've played and watched many sports in my time, but this is by far the craziest with regard to rules be open for interpretation.
 

Easy_C

Crow
If you've ever played Rugby, you know it's hard to follow that rule even if you're trying It's fairly common you will feel like you have to get down that low if you want to live.
 

nek

Pelican
Easy_C said:
If you've ever played Rugby, you know it's hard to follow that rule even if you're trying It's fairly common you will feel like you have to get down that low if you want to live.
That's what I don't understand. If it is hard to comply with, and rarely enforced, why not just remove it as a rule? To me it just creates the potential for a situation where the referee may strictly interpret the rule and completely fuck up how a team plays the game if they're use to the rule typically not being enforced. I've never played, and I'm from the states so learning about it is a real effort. The variance in rule application is definitely a challenge when it comes to learning about rugby.
 
Sometimes it feels like rugby is made unnecessarily complicated purely to stop the oiks who didn't play at school ever picking it up later in life.

Can't have the riff raff playing the gentlemen's game :D
 

nek

Pelican
Next questions: what positions comprise the 8 substitutes typically?

Also, when clearing a ruck, are there specific techniques that gotta be used?
 
Well you can't just shoulder barge into a ruck; you have to use your arms too like in a tackle.

The ideal position is a low starting, upward drive whilst keeping your back straight and your head out of trouble. As a kid, it felt like we spent 99% of our time on the practice field drilling rucking...so it's an important skill. You must drive with your legs not your back or arms. You need to bind onto one or two opposition players.
 

T and A Man

Pelican
Gold Member
8 subs are ... 1,2,3 new front row.

It used to be seven subs, with two front rowers, but the laws are unless you have three qualified front rowers, you cant have contested scrums. So increased.

Sub 4 is usually a lock (4,5)

Sub 5 is a loose forward (6,7,8 emphasis in 6 & 8)

Sub 6 is a scrum half (9)

Sub 7 inside back (10,12)

Sub 8 outside back (11,13,14,15)
 

T and A Man

Pelican
Gold Member
Front row, particularly tighthead prop, squat and strong to push in scrums.

Locks, tall to jump in lineouts.

Number 8 is a powerful runner ball in hand. Not so much speed but power through contact. Like a gridiron running back intended to ram through people.

Number 6 is a combo between lock and 8.

Number 7 is a running machine, borders on triathlete fitness. Gets to breakdown to contest rucks.

Number 9, passing from the ruck.

Numbers 10, 12 & 13 are treated differently depending on coaching style, but 10 is often a good punter. All should pass well while running.

11 & 14 speed and the ability to elude defense, stepping swerving... or run over the top I Pacific islander

15 catching punts, punting themselves, fair amount of speed and ball passing
 

nek

Pelican
Next question:

I've noticed sometimes the #8 retrieves the ball from the scrum and sometimes it's the scrum half. In what situations is one preferred over the other? I can see the benefit of the #8 doing it, as it allows for greater attacking numbers by not having the scrum half occupied.
 
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