Glory to God! Can you share a link (in whatever language)?
Church Russian Orthodox Church
- Thread starter Roosh
- Start date
Do you have a link to that?
Here's a link to a news article about it https://tass.ru/obschestvo/10302909. And here's the interview on the Россия 24 news YouTube channel. The relevant part starts at about 2 minutes in.
The Lord Has Entrusted Us With a Church That Has Existed for 1,000 Years. An interview by Kathimerini with Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfeyev). Part 1.
orthochristian.com
A Political Structure and an Unwanted Autocephaly. An interview by Kathimerini with Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfeyev). Part 2.
orthochristian.com
The Lord Has Entrusted Us With a Church That Has Existed for 1,000 Years. An interview by Kathimerini with Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfeyev). Part 1
Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk, the Chairman of the Moscow Patriarchate’s Department for External Church Relations, answered questions from the Greek newspaper Kathimerini on the breaking off of Eucharistic Communion, Russian Church unity, and the Council of Crete.
A Political Structure and an Unwanted Autocephaly. An interview by Kathimerini with Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfeyev). Part 2.
A Political Structure and an Unwanted Autocephaly. An interview by Kathimerini with Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfeyev). Part 2
How did any autocephaly in Church history begin? With this or that Church declaring its desire to receive independence. This process did not always go smoothly. And unlike what the hierarchs of the Patriarchate of Constantinople are indoctrinating everyone with now, Constantinople certainly did...
And the quoted remark closes just after the 5 minute mark. Thanks very much.
True chad, everyone is so silent and respectful, and the kids are very interested in what he has to say. The room is not full of commotion, everyone is focused on the patriarch.
This reminds me how much I miss coffee hour. My (Greek) priest went from "ignore the online registrations, just come to church anyway" less than 3 months ago to lowering Church capacity to less than 20% and then 10% when there are no state restrictions anymore. Rationing sacraments doesn't seem right to me.
Pelagius
Robin
Very strange question: does anyone know how the ROCOR/ROC at large views left handed people? I was in a Catholic Church this past week with a friend due to bereavement and he accidentally crossed himself with the left hand to the horror of a few elderly people that berated him after service. It got a little heated and it turned him away from the Church all together.
I attend an Orthodox church and this has never been a problem from what I know, but i'm wondering if this is something that exists in the wider ROCOR?
I attend an Orthodox church and this has never been a problem from what I know, but i'm wondering if this is something that exists in the wider ROCOR?
Many babushki (old ladies) will chew you out for any infraction. It's equal opportunity—everyone will have many such stories—and forgiveness often comes as easily as the criticism did. And the babushki aren't always right. My 3-year-old was recently scolded for speaking English while entering the gate of a monastery in Russia, LOL, which of course was not a reflection on anyone other than the scolding babushka and was pretty hilarious. And we had a very interesting and warm conversation with her later that day. She just cares a lot about the faith and wants it taken seriously.
It is very incorrect to cross with the left hand—unless you don't have use of your right hand, which I saw for the first time in church a couple weeks ago. Making the sign of the Cross correctly was heavily emphasized by St. John Chrysostom, so it's not some picky innovation to focus on it, but ancient tradition.
Definitely be ready to accept criticism humbly when attending an Orthodox service. Orthodoxy makes us aware of our weaknesses and failings along with all the blessings we find there. Very much a good thing, but doesn't always feel great in the moment.
This answer takes into account both American ROCOR parishes and the Russian Church in Russia proper. In both I have found it to be much more a function of the particular people and the parish culture than the jurisdiction as a whole.
But be ready for anything!
It is very incorrect to cross with the left hand—unless you don't have use of your right hand, which I saw for the first time in church a couple weeks ago. Making the sign of the Cross correctly was heavily emphasized by St. John Chrysostom, so it's not some picky innovation to focus on it, but ancient tradition.
Definitely be ready to accept criticism humbly when attending an Orthodox service. Orthodoxy makes us aware of our weaknesses and failings along with all the blessings we find there. Very much a good thing, but doesn't always feel great in the moment.
This answer takes into account both American ROCOR parishes and the Russian Church in Russia proper. In both I have found it to be much more a function of the particular people and the parish culture than the jurisdiction as a whole.
But be ready for anything!
Left-handed vs right-handed symbolism, in general, is a very ancient and deep symbolism in many cultures. Even in modern psychology, we see different hand usage corresponds to different personality types and dispositions. I would hope your friend can be open-minded and investigate in detail why people may believe in such traditions.
Pelagius
Robin
Thanks for the answer!
Pelagius
Robin
Yeah, when I noticed I did quietly correct him in church and he had no problem doing the rest of the service with the RH- it was the grief he got afterwards that turned him away (i.e why would I join this church if they believe i'm evil?).
I did point out that no one would know you were LH if you just do everything in RH, they don't have some 'spawn of the devil' sensor.
We'll see where his journey towards Christ takes him.
I'm left-handed and pretty much intuited right from the start that you make the Sign of the Cross right-handed. As long as you do that correctly, I don't think anybody cares much if you're a lefty.
I will say, though, that as a lefty, standing on the right side of the room and looking to my left (toward the center) feels more natural than the other way around.
I will say, though, that as a lefty, standing on the right side of the room and looking to my left (toward the center) feels more natural than the other way around.
Can't comment on ROC/ROCOR, as i'm not part of it, but left handed and right handed have far more connotations than you might realize. It doesn't matter whether you're left or right handed, you should always cross yourself with the right hand. The elderly might just have chastised out of habit, from what you're telling me it seems like they overreacted emphasizing the importance on the outward action more than the reason behind it, which is not good.
but if you look at the icons, Christ is always blessing with the right hand, and the book, representing the law is always in his left hand. The right hand brings together, and the left hand pushes away. It's why we shake hands with the right hand, it's also why traditionally the sword was used in the right hand, for your intentions are open and honest wielding a sword in the right hand. The left hand, is the dagger hand, it's the hand you'd stab someone in the back with after embracing as you would family. Even in Islam, the left hand is reserved for certain actions.
Yes. Specifically and mundanely, using toilet paper.
There is some amount of cultural awareness and even cultural reformatting necessary to grok Orthodoxy. Once you get into that a lot of things make a ton of sense, and a ton of things in American culture become puzzling and frustrating.
Pelagius
Robin
Very good point.
My friend looked into it and found that left handed people do feature in a positive-albeit lesser light in the bible which I honestly hadn't noticed:
This does not carry any negative connotations for left-handed people. It is simply a matter of symbolism. Whenever the Bible mentions left-handed people, it does not present left-handedness as a weakness. Ehud, a judge of Israel and a mighty warrior, was left-handed (Judges 3:15-21). Judges 20:16 mentions 700 left-handed warriors who could “sling a stone at a hair and not miss.” First Chronicles 12:2 seems to reference bowmen who were ambidextrous. When the Bible refers to left-handed people, it speaks of left-handedness as an advantage, not a weakness.
Source
From basic research it looks like it plays more prominence in the Catholic Church and today it varies between the very rare "don't come if you've not learned to use your right hand only" and the more common "we don't care just cross yourself and take communion properly".
He doesn't seem overly deterred so I think that's a good sign, the main thing will be trying to nudge him from going down the path of creating his own digestible cocktail of Christianity - at least before he is able to discern for himself.
Russian Orthodox Christians celebrated Epiphany by plunging into the freezing water in various cities, villages, towns, etc. across Russia. The annual baptism is a long-lasting tradition of the Orthodox Church with thousands of Christians across Russia taking the icy dip to celebrate the baptism of Jesus.
It's a fun tradition of course but I'm not sure if it's a good idea that the Russian church supports this. For many people (especially men), this ice plunging and the Great Fast is all they have to do as Christians. My (allegedly) Orthodox father did just that. Ice bath in January, fasting in March-April and that's it. No church on Sunday, no communion, no prayer, no nothing.
I read an article on Russian Faith that's ice plunging has nothing to do with Orthodox Faith per se (can't find the link). It's not heresy by any means but it's more of a PR stunt than exercise in faith.
The reason why the Church may use ice baths for public relations is to appeal to the generations which grew up in the Soviet Union who Andrew Torba would call pagans
Sports and health (including cold showers and ice bathing) were very promiment and almost religion-like back then. So I'm convinced most of these "based Russian Christians" do this plunging for their bodies alone.
HIDEOUS!
A Duginist Temple of Doom. A metallic Neo-Bolshevik monstrosity that glorifies the State filled with flags with Soviet hammers and sickles interspersed between icons of Putin and Stalin. Sooo typically Russia! Wonder if it was built with help from that Hasidic Jewish oligarch Alexander Mashkevitch, like several RussianBolshevik Orthodox churches?
Those aesthetics are pure Socialist Realism.
Cold and empty (both metaphorically and literally—Russia just builds these Potemkin village churches without ever actually FILLING them .
A Duginist Temple of Doom. A metallic Neo-Bolshevik monstrosity that glorifies the State filled with flags with Soviet hammers and sickles interspersed between icons of Putin and Stalin. Sooo typically Russia! Wonder if it was built with help from that Hasidic Jewish oligarch Alexander Mashkevitch, like several Russian
Those aesthetics are pure Socialist Realism.
Cold and empty (both metaphorically and literally—Russia just builds these Potemkin village churches without ever actually FILLING them .