RVF Book Club December 2013.
- Thread starter Statsi
- Start date
- Status
Jumping in! I have to finish a book and start reading a small essay before reading this. I should be able to start sometime tonight.
Finished. Using those BBC prompts for structure, this is basically what I thought:
But overall, yeah, I thought this was a quality read. It was kind of refreshing as this probably isn’t a title I’d choose on my own.
I liked the book overall - it was insightful historically while not being dry. Though during that one stretch early on where Orwell went on about politics and the different parties, I basically tuned out. Otherwise was engaged.Statsi said:
Orwell did a solid job describing how things were there, as far as I can tell, without any bullshit. That goes for capturing the characters as well.Statsi said:
The way things were perceived and written, I think Orwell would’ve been a guy I could get a drink with. This was the first I’ve ever read of his works - never even read Animal Farm in school. Regardless I liked how the ordeal was reported here. Will probably seek out more of his works.Statsi said:
This might be because I hardly ever read war stories, but from the very beginning I was reminded of All Quiet on the Western Front. The correlation there seems a little too cliche though… maybe I just need to read and familiarize myself with more war literature.Statsi said:
But overall, yeah, I thought this was a quality read. It was kind of refreshing as this probably isn’t a title I’d choose on my own.
Checkmat
Pelican
Here are my thoughts on Homage to Catalonia.
I'd read Animal Farm and 1984 when I was in middle school but have zero memory of them so I felt like I was starting fresh with Orwell.
I liked this book. The whole way through it was very easy to read. No old-timey vernacular or strange speech patterns. It was just a very matter-of-fact telling of his personal accounts of events, like he was telling his war story over a beer.
He was honest, to-the-point and clear about everything. He even prompts the reader to skip the chapters where he explains the differences between the different political parties and militias, and admits his own possible unconscious bias for having served with the POUM.
The characters were pretty much just names to me since he didn't go into depth on his relationships with any individual people, not even his wife.
Instead though, he paints a very compelling picture of the personality of Spain as a whole, or the average Spaniard. He brings up lots of things that are "typical of Spain" and anecdotes that highlight why he really favors the Spanish people. So as far as characters go, I didn't feel like there were many in the conventional sense but I got a good sense of national character.
The politics sections were pretty dry and I pressed my way through it and learned a lot of new information about the history of the Spanish Civil War. I'm glad I did because it gave me a chance to pull back from the trenches and look at the war on a grand-scale against the backdrop of impending World War II. It puts the fighting into perspective and also colors the different acronyms.
If I have any complaints, I guess it'd be the lack of feeling connected to any of the characters. I feel like he got the most important information out in this book: his raw experiences in the war and how he remembers them. It's not a love story or a complete narrative "arc" like a novel. It's just him in the war, take it as it is. I can't really fault Orwell for this and instead just chalk it up to the type of book it is. Not every war story is Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers.
While I read this book, I felt the desperationof being on the line and the paranoia of backstabbing former comrades among the communists.
I'd read Animal Farm and 1984 when I was in middle school but have zero memory of them so I felt like I was starting fresh with Orwell.
I liked this book. The whole way through it was very easy to read. No old-timey vernacular or strange speech patterns. It was just a very matter-of-fact telling of his personal accounts of events, like he was telling his war story over a beer.
He was honest, to-the-point and clear about everything. He even prompts the reader to skip the chapters where he explains the differences between the different political parties and militias, and admits his own possible unconscious bias for having served with the POUM.
The characters were pretty much just names to me since he didn't go into depth on his relationships with any individual people, not even his wife.
Instead though, he paints a very compelling picture of the personality of Spain as a whole, or the average Spaniard. He brings up lots of things that are "typical of Spain" and anecdotes that highlight why he really favors the Spanish people. So as far as characters go, I didn't feel like there were many in the conventional sense but I got a good sense of national character.
The politics sections were pretty dry and I pressed my way through it and learned a lot of new information about the history of the Spanish Civil War. I'm glad I did because it gave me a chance to pull back from the trenches and look at the war on a grand-scale against the backdrop of impending World War II. It puts the fighting into perspective and also colors the different acronyms.
If I have any complaints, I guess it'd be the lack of feeling connected to any of the characters. I feel like he got the most important information out in this book: his raw experiences in the war and how he remembers them. It's not a love story or a complete narrative "arc" like a novel. It's just him in the war, take it as it is. I can't really fault Orwell for this and instead just chalk it up to the type of book it is. Not every war story is Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers.
While I read this book, I felt the desperationof being on the line and the paranoia of backstabbing former comrades among the communists.
Start with your reaction to the book - did you love it, loathe it or remain indifferent to it? Why?
I enjoyed most of it. I didn't like Chapter 11 because Orwell became too enthusiastic in trying to explain the political situation, and I feel he went overboard in that chapter. But otherwise the tale is compelling and I struggled to put the book down - which is not something I often experience. Truth is certainly stranger than fiction, and I was entranced as to how surreal the Spanish civil war managed to be.
Then think about what the book is really about - its themes.
I think this was George Orwell's attempt at catharsis. It feels like the book was hastily written down in a short space of time, almost like he was experiencing a rush of memories that he wanted to get down as quickly as possible before time would change them in his own head. It's not an objective book about the war, it's his personal memoir of a war and his reaction to his experiences after the fact.
Are the characters real for you?
Orwell rushed through many of the characters. I didn't even know his wife's name at any point. He just calls her 'my wife.' I suppose that suggests he had some game, that he doesn't even assign that much importance to her.
He mentions a lot of people but never describes them. I think the people he mentions were so vivid in his own mind's eye that he didn't realise that he had failed to describe them in the book. Or perhaps he was afraid that he would describe them incorrectly, and thus dishonour their memory.
Who do you sympathise with?
I could practically smell the dung and feel the freeze and the fear of being caught by the police. I sympathise with what Orwell had to go through and admire his stiff-upper-lip courage in the face of adversity.
Is there a particularly memorable piece of writing or scene in the book?
There was a passage where Orwell mentioned that it's those who do the least fighting and are in the least danger that are screaming and shouting and agitating the loudest.
It's still true. The guys who start wars these days are always sending other people to die for their decisions. And the loudest and most fanatical feminists are those who have the least to worry about from patriarchy.
Does the book have a message?
I think the book represents George Orwell's red pill moment. Before the war, he had been a socialist, possibly even a communist. After the war, he realised that it was all bullshit, one way or the other.
What does it tell you about the author?
He was capable of being heroic, something I don't associate with intellectuals. He was a real man, not some sheltered beta.
Does it remind you of anything else?
No. This was a unique book to me.
Do you want to read more by the same author?
Well, I've downloaded 'Down and Out in London and Paris' right after finishing the book, so I guess I do.
If it's a prize winner, did it deserve to be?
I don't know if it won any prizes, I think it was too red pill for its age. I think a lot of liberals were probably upset by his depictions of the Spanish republican government.
Looking through my to-read list, I nominate
The Secret History of the Court of Justinian by Procopius
as our book for January (feel free to disagree).
Available here in multiple versions: http://gutenberg.org/ebooks/12916
I enjoyed most of it. I didn't like Chapter 11 because Orwell became too enthusiastic in trying to explain the political situation, and I feel he went overboard in that chapter. But otherwise the tale is compelling and I struggled to put the book down - which is not something I often experience. Truth is certainly stranger than fiction, and I was entranced as to how surreal the Spanish civil war managed to be.
Then think about what the book is really about - its themes.
I think this was George Orwell's attempt at catharsis. It feels like the book was hastily written down in a short space of time, almost like he was experiencing a rush of memories that he wanted to get down as quickly as possible before time would change them in his own head. It's not an objective book about the war, it's his personal memoir of a war and his reaction to his experiences after the fact.
Are the characters real for you?
Orwell rushed through many of the characters. I didn't even know his wife's name at any point. He just calls her 'my wife.' I suppose that suggests he had some game, that he doesn't even assign that much importance to her.
He mentions a lot of people but never describes them. I think the people he mentions were so vivid in his own mind's eye that he didn't realise that he had failed to describe them in the book. Or perhaps he was afraid that he would describe them incorrectly, and thus dishonour their memory.
Who do you sympathise with?
I could practically smell the dung and feel the freeze and the fear of being caught by the police. I sympathise with what Orwell had to go through and admire his stiff-upper-lip courage in the face of adversity.
Is there a particularly memorable piece of writing or scene in the book?
There was a passage where Orwell mentioned that it's those who do the least fighting and are in the least danger that are screaming and shouting and agitating the loudest.
It's still true. The guys who start wars these days are always sending other people to die for their decisions. And the loudest and most fanatical feminists are those who have the least to worry about from patriarchy.
Does the book have a message?
I think the book represents George Orwell's red pill moment. Before the war, he had been a socialist, possibly even a communist. After the war, he realised that it was all bullshit, one way or the other.
What does it tell you about the author?
He was capable of being heroic, something I don't associate with intellectuals. He was a real man, not some sheltered beta.
Does it remind you of anything else?
No. This was a unique book to me.
Do you want to read more by the same author?
Well, I've downloaded 'Down and Out in London and Paris' right after finishing the book, so I guess I do.
If it's a prize winner, did it deserve to be?
I don't know if it won any prizes, I think it was too red pill for its age. I think a lot of liberals were probably upset by his depictions of the Spanish republican government.
Looking through my to-read list, I nominate
The Secret History of the Court of Justinian by Procopius
as our book for January (feel free to disagree).
Available here in multiple versions: http://gutenberg.org/ebooks/12916
Checkmat said:
I agree with you there - none of the characters seemed really significant / developed. It might be better to say his descriptions were efficient... the little language he did afford the characters was enough for me while I was reading.
Everyone came off as disposable but, in my opinion, still believable.
Checkmat
Pelican
Thomas the Rhymer said:
He never says any of that.
He joined the war to join the fight against fascism and to fight for justice and equality. It was the factional in-fighting and politicking from the Soviet Union and it's party puppets that ultimately led to his disillusionment with the Republicans/anti-fascist movement.
I never saw anything in the book that suggested he had a change in ideology. Just more like, "wow, these guys aren't fighting for the true cause really. They have ulterior motives here."
He never seems to stray very far from being pro-POUM/anarchist. He even apologizes to the reader several times because he thinks he may be biased in his memories/interpretation of events because of his allegiance with the POUM.
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia#Aftermath
I was very surprised how much this book differed from his other works I've read. Animal farm and 1984 were firm favourites of mine in my youth, both had a more philosophical impact on me. Homage seen more historical and factual, less philosophy. The book definitely gave me a deeper respect for the author, I hadn't read up on him before now. Dude seems like a bad ass, wounded in combat, fights for his ideals in a different countries war without financial motivation.
Statsi said:
Statsi are you volunteering to run the monthly book club or do you want us to take turns?
Idlenations
Robin
Been working hard over the holidays so only half way through homage to Catalonia as had little spare time. I should be finished in a day or so.
- Status