Sede Vacante Thread

Is the Chair of St. Peter Vacant?

  • Yes

    Votes: 39 37.5%
  • No

    Votes: 34 32.7%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 13 12.5%
  • Not Catholic

    Votes: 18 17.3%

  • Total voters
    104

Pioneer

Sparrow
The Vatican's Audience Hall is an interesting building:

View attachment 31227

Why would it be designed to look like the head of a snake, with the stage being the mouth? As though The Pope would be speaking on behalf of the serpent?

At least one saint and one Pope have said the Church would be commandeered by Satan, during the End Times.
@Papist Why would it be designed to look like the head of a snake, with the stage being the mouth? Read the full article from Novus Ordo Watch, and you’ll find out why!

The Vatican’s Hell Hall: The Weird Mysteries of the Paul VI Audience Hall​

novusordowatch.org/2020/07/vatican-hell-hall-weird-mysteries-paul6-auditorium
July 3, 2020July 3, 2020
Infernal Art and Architecture in the Vatican

The Vatican’s Hell Hall:
The Weird Mysteries of the Paul VI Audience Hall​

francis-resurrection-sculpture-paul6-audience-hall-GettyImages-498134956.jpg

Darkness Visible: Eerie, shrieking skull-like faces seem to peer out menacingly from the base 0f La Resurrezione, an eight ton sculpture, as “Pope” Francis speaks during an audience on November 21, 2015 at the Paul VI Audience Hall at the Vatican. It is only one of the many bizarre things associated with this auditorium. (image: Getty Images/AFP / rights-managed)
 

Pioneer

Sparrow
Total non-sequitur. The Church is made of sinners, but is more than just the aggregate of the sinners it contains. Your fallacy relies on a confusion between the Church and its members.



That was before Our Lord gave them the Holy Spirit (who they were the "twelve Apostles" as we know them yet). The same fallacy has been applied by Protestants and others to the denial of Peter before he became Pope.



1) That's an extreme "minimization" of the indefectibility claim, which is very similar if not identical to the SSPX position, and very close also the Protestant "invisible Church" idea.
2) Are you arguing that indefectibility applied to Vatican II just means that the proportion of clergy who went along with the heretical changes at Vatican II was only 99% instead of 100% ? This is making a mockery of it.
3) Even then, in the 1% like Mgr Lefebvre who were not wholly in agreement, there is no clear-cut opposition, more of a shifting compromise. Yet another extreme weakening of indefectibility from this point of view.
It is all mixed up. They profess to be in communion with the false popes, but the false popes reject them, except for a novel partial type communion.The Vatican makes some rulings about SSPX which SSPX accept and publicize.
But SSPX decide other of their rulings are not valid.

The SSPX says that the reason why they refuse to submit to the Pope is because they must uphold Tradition.

But Tradition commands submission to the Pope.

Hmmmmmmmm....
 

Sitting Bull

Woodpecker
It is all mixed up. They profess to be in communion with the false popes, but the false popes reject them, except for a novel partial type communion.The Vatican makes some rulings about SSPX which SSPX accept and publicize.
But SSPX decide other of their rulings are not valid.

The SSPX says that the reason why they refuse to submit to the Pope is because they must uphold Tradition.

But Tradition commands submission to the Pope.

Hmmmmmmmm....

Indeed, perhaps one day someone will make a "Catholic Clown World" thread here on RvF
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Indeed, perhaps one day someone will make a "Catholic Clown World" thread here on RvF

I would be weary of pushing too much anti Catholic rhetoric on a site with a E.O. moderators and ownership. You could just be pushing people deeper into schism from 2nd millenia AD councils in refuting V2. I watched a Novus Ordo today on TV this morning, it certainly feels schismatic.

The Tridentine Liturgy is a Prayer, so it can not be outlawed, it also is codified in the Council of Trent. I don't think SSPX views what is happening with the mass as simply "tradition". Remember, they have been considered in schism for most of their existence. The FSSP Priests will always warn against SSPX as "promoting schism".
 

Sinabelus

Sparrow
I've been lurking on this thread so far and it's sad to see people are unable to have a calm discussion about it. There's always a party that will get angry, use dirty argumentation tactics, etc. Before I became a sede I was attending Novus Ordo mass with a decent priest and on the road to baptism. When I brought up the topic of the misdeeds of post-V2 popes and some contradictions between V2 and the previous magisterium, he immediately got defensive and started to call me a pharisee, sowing discord, and accused me of being nitpicky and biased, which was probably the best way to push me further, as I was very surprised to see how personal he got. Let me tell you, for having spent months in both masses, that the Novus Ordo and TLM masses are nothing alike. Now I see that NO masses are protestant, at the very least in form.

Now being a sede is actually very hard and usually implies that the person puts truth above all else, even though those in communion with V2 will say they're wrong. Indeed I met much more people, and decent girls too, in the NO mass ; NO churches are numerous, bigger, more well-equipped, etc. Being consistent with the sedevacantist theological position implies that you go to a non una cum mass, which is usually celebrated in smaller buildings, with an older and smaller demography, and more sparsely spread.

Francis is actually a blessing (well, relatively so…), as he's so obviously heretical that it makes people inquire about the causes of such a man being pope. I think that V2 texts should be read in an hermeneutic that's in accordance with the acts of the "popes" that follow it, faithful to the act of judging trees by their fruits. And when you learn that Paul VI removed the anti-modernity oath, John-Paul II kissed the Koran, among other things, and now Francis at last, interpreting V2 with an hermeneutic of continuity becomes very difficult.
 

Pioneer

Sparrow
“I don’t see how any honest person with a brain could say that Bergoglio is a Roman Catholic.”Bishop Sanborn
I’ve always liked his diplomacy, his tact.
 

SilentCal

Robin
You don’t think female priests will ever happen? I like your confidence, however you seem to think the protestantization of the faith never happened. They are playing the long game and have been chipping away at the faith since Vatican II. Deacons are the first step towards ordination. Who is making things up, now?

But “based” sede said they were playing the “long game”??
 

Pioneer

Sparrow
LOL. His Unholiness is no doubt feeling threatened by a gender who has the right to wear a dress and be attracted to men. The women in clergy faction of Bergoglio’s followers. must have been pressuring him for power, prestige, and something else, so he decided to rid himself of their nuisance. Otherwise he wouldn’t have cared — After all, he doesn't mind homosexuality, transsexuality, BLM, and other Marxist tools used to destabilize conservative Western family values.

In other news...

-“Fr.” James Martin — the “papally”-appointed advisor to the Vatican’s Department of Communications — wants you to celebrate LGBTQ Pride Month:
BASED.

-LGBTQ blessings service is kicking off “Pride Month” for members of the Vatican II Sect: https://www.ncronline.org/news/just...2jqCSzb-MP9yMfRyscxUUsaLgKZHFLPjwXLq6LBrShNSM

-Fake Pope hosts Fake President at the Apostolic Palace on June 15 (Wonder what they’ll talk about...?)

- Meanwhile in Germany —the Vatican II Religion is in “full swing”...

-The current antipope prepares to issue restrictions on the “Traditional Mass” (Eat it, pseudo-Trads!) ...
-The U.N. Is about to launch Decade on Ecosystem Restoration — and GUESS WHO has been invited to deliver an important message for the occasion?: https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world...system-restoration-world-environment-day.html
 

SilentCal

Robin
I’m not in SSPX myself, but it looks like they do a great job of refuting sedevacantism:

 

Pioneer

Sparrow
I’m not in SSPX myself, but it looks like they do a great job of refuting sedevacantism:

Do you agree with the SSPX that Vatican II contained errors and must be rejected, along with the New Mass, as evil and non-Catholic?
 
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Pioneer

Sparrow

LOL!

A little catechism on sedevacantism
What is sedevacantism?
Sedevacantism is the theory of those who think that the most recent popes, the popes of the Second Vatican Council, have not really been popes. Consequently, the See of Peter is not occupied. This is expressed in Latin by the formula sede vacante.​
Where does this theory come from?​
This theory has been conceived in reaction to the very grave crisis which the Church has been undergoing since the Council, a crisis that Archbishop Lefebvre justly called "the third world war." The main cause of the crisis has been the dereliction of the Roman Pontiffs, who teach or allow to be propagated serious errors on the subjects of ecumenism, religious liberty, collegiality, etc.

The sedevacantists think that real popes could not be responsible for such a crisis, and consequently they consider them not to be "real" popes.​
 

SilentCal

Robin
LOL!

A little catechism on sedevacantism
What is sedevacantism?
Sedevacantism is the theory of those who think that the most recent popes, the popes of the Second Vatican Council, have not really been popes. Consequently, the See of Peter is not occupied. This is expressed in Latin by the formula sede vacante.​
Where does this theory come from?​
This theory has been conceived in reaction to the very grave crisis which the Church has been undergoing since the Council, a crisis that Archbishop Lefebvre justly called "the third world war." The main cause of the crisis has been the dereliction of the Roman Pontiffs, who teach or allow to be propagated serious errors on the subjects of ecumenism, religious liberty, collegiality, etc.

The sedevacantists think that real popes could not be responsible for such a crisis, and consequently they consider them not to be "real" popes.​
If you look at my message, you’ll see that I already said I’m not in the SSPX
 

Aboulia

Woodpecker
Orthodox
My podcasts are on shuffle as I drive, this one came on, it's a very interesting interview, as it touches on many different topics, thought I'd share.

Tim Kelly: Our Interesting Times: Vatican 2 and the Culture War with Florian Geyer (Former podcast host and Orthodox Christian, he's removed the vast majority of his material from the internet)


Florian brings up a few interesting things, that Vatican II was the first and only council of it's kind, since it neither defined dogma, nor anathematized heresy (which is what councils are called to do). Florian holds that Vatican II corrupted the language used. If language isn't clear, then the teachings cannot be either, and once those are unclear, the moral/spiritual authority of the church as an institution decays. Which lead to people not taking the faith seriously, which lead to all sorts of abuses.

He thinks that the main problem in Catholicism is that people and the hierarchy itself doesn't take the religion seriously anymore, (He gives an example of Justin Trudeau reading the Shahada in a mosque yet not being excommunicated) he also says that any serious Catholic should read the text of Vatican II.
 

SilentCal

Robin
My podcasts are on shuffle as I drive, this one came on, it's a very interesting interview, as it touches on many different topics, thought I'd share.

Tim Kelly: Our Interesting Times: Vatican 2 and the Culture War with Florian Geyer (Former podcast host and Orthodox Christian, he's removed the vast majority of his material from the internet)


Florian brings up a few interesting things, that Vatican II was the first and only council of it's kind, since it neither defined dogma, nor anathematized heresy (which is what councils are called to do). Florian holds that Vatican II corrupted the language used. If language isn't clear, then the teachings cannot be either, and once those are unclear, the moral/spiritual authority of the church as an institution decays. Which lead to people not taking the faith seriously, which lead to all sorts of abuses.

He thinks that the main problem in Catholicism is that people and the hierarchy itself doesn't take the religion seriously anymore, (He gives an example of Justin Trudeau reading the Shahada in a mosque yet not being excommunicated) he also says that any serious Catholic should read the text of Vatican II.
Ideally, they should read the text in Latin.
 
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