Self-defense thread

When two guys get in each other's face up close in a stare down contest, peripheral vision goes out the window. Around the 5 second mark, watch how the attacker quickly dropped his left foot back before throwing a "blindside" hook punch.

This is why a man needs to control the distance and space between himself and the attacker for better peripheral vision awareness.

Note: "Peripheral vision awareness" is when one can see or detect an attacker's movement (from an arm length/mid-range distance) - i.e., clenched fist, jaw tightening, foot stepping forward or back, hand reaching into his pocket, etc.

Also demonstrates that weaknesses of character can make you vulnerable like the video above and open you to manipulation. i.e. being goaded into a trap.
 

hedonist

Woodpecker
I will say the Baz Rutten *if someone grabs you from behind* swell up like a pufferfish/fast exhale, drop and elbow to the nuts has worked more than once
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
As a young man, self defense training served me well against bullies and drunks, but as an older man I've certainly gotten out of practice.

That being said, I think it's useful to think about self defense about being able to resist/be a hard target against those people that are most likely to engage you.

As a youth, pre internet the likely threats that engaged me were generally thugs, drunks and bullies. Their means of engagement was physical intimidation and violence.

As an adult, and maybe even as a modern youth today what are the likely threats that will engage me? The public school system, the legal system, the healthcare system and other bureaucracy. I don't have a lifestyle that really puts me in range of likely physical threats, especially hand to hand unarmed combat. If I were to have physical threats engage me somewhere its likely going to be armed combat.

All of that aside, train for physical self defense but also train for procedural defense. Physical training raised my confidence as a young person but procedural self defense has raised my confidence as an adult. Knowing what your rights are, what you can say no to, how to navigate bureaucracies and interact with them will save your butt in non-violent conflict.

Dont' invest entirely in deterrence of physical violence.
 

C-Note

Ostrich
Gold Member
Interesting self-defense situation recently:


The football player and his friend get their butts kicked because they were unable or unwilling to de-escalate a confrontation with two guys in a barroom bathroom. The other two guys are apparently trained in MMA, and you can see them using several MMA moves in the fight. The football player and his friend have no idea what to do and take a beating.

One thing the video shows is that MMA can work in a street fight if you only have to worry about a one-on-one situation, as occurred here. Another thing the incident illustrates is why you should still try to avoid a fight, even if you are justified in physically defending yourself. Apparently, the guy who got pushed and then broke the football player's eye socket severely tore his bicep, and had to go to the hospital himself. So, even though he was experienced and well-trained in fighting, and clearly won the fight, he still was fairly severely injured. I imagine a torn bicep may bother him for the rest of his life. I damaged some ligaments in my knee in the full-contact karate tournament I participated in 15 years ago, and my knee has never been the same since.
 

budoslavic

Owl
Gold Member
Interesting self-defense situation recently:


The football player and his friend get their butts kicked because they were unable or unwilling to de-escalate a confrontation with two guys in a barroom bathroom. The other two guys are apparently trained in MMA, and you can see them using several MMA moves in the fight. The football player and his friend have no idea what to do and take a beating.

One thing the video shows is that MMA can work in a street fight if you only have to worry about a one-on-one situation, as occurred here. Another thing the incident illustrates is why you should still try to avoid a fight, even if you are justified in physically defending yourself. Apparently, the guy who got pushed and then broke the football player's eye socket severely tore his bicep, and had to go to the hospital himself. So, even though he was experienced and well-trained in fighting, and clearly won the fight, he still was fairly severely injured. I imagine a torn bicep may bother him for the rest of his life. I damaged some ligaments in my knee in the full-contact karate tournament I participated in 15 years ago, and my knee has never been the same since.
Good find. From watching the video, wondering what really happened before the whole thing went down. Note the size difference between the two groups. The big guys got taken to the cleaners by the smaller guys. Also, note the small bathroom space, it's tight and confined with very little room to move around due to obstacles (i.e., walls, stalls, faucet sinks, people, etc.).

 
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Interesting self-defense situation recently:


The football player and his friend get their butts kicked because they were unable or unwilling to de-escalate a confrontation with two guys in a barroom bathroom. The other two guys are apparently trained in MMA, and you can see them using several MMA moves in the fight. The football player and his friend have no idea what to do and take a beating.

One thing the video shows is that MMA can work in a street fight if you only have to worry about a one-on-one situation, as occurred here. Another thing the incident illustrates is why you should still try to avoid a fight, even if you are justified in physically defending yourself. Apparently, the guy who got pushed and then broke the football player's eye socket severely tore his bicep, and had to go to the hospital himself. So, even though he was experienced and well-trained in fighting, and clearly won the fight, he still was fairly severely injured. I imagine a torn bicep may bother him for the rest of his life. I damaged some ligaments in my knee in the full-contact karate tournament I participated in 15 years ago, and my knee has never been the same since.
Ask and you shall recieve. What morons.
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
Good find. From watching the video, wondering what really happened before the whole thing went down. Note the size difference between the two groups. The big guys got taken to the cleaners by the smaller guys. Also, note the small bathroom space, it's tight and confined with very little room to move around due to obstacles (i.e., walls, stalls, faucet sinks, people, etc.).


At the open of the video it looks like brown jacket guy is standing between black turtleneck metrosexual and the short guy. The short guy is already bleeding from his nose.

I think that black turtleneck metrosexual had already punched short guy, and brown jacket guy was trying to defuse.

short, bloody nose was looking down when black turtleneck metrosexual reaches from behind brown jacket and pushes him. Short guy was looking down when pushed and so I think wrongly assumed it was brown jacket and so unloads on him.

This would explain why the sports team thinks that it is out of character behaviour for brown jacked and why he got beat so hard. I think that brown jacket was trying to defuse the situation...in the same way that you'd expect a white oklahoma football player to behave. He didn't expect short guy to start hammering on him (which is retarded situational awareness...expect to be punched by anyone angry in proximity to you if you are in a bar)

I think it also explains why metrosexual turtleneck gets a beating from the other guy dressed like he just came from jiu jitsu practice.

Metrosexual black turtleneck is the 'friend' you never want. Talks crap, gets you into trouble and fights. Given his looks and attitude I would also assume this conflict started over a girl...it's always over a girl when it's at a bar...that or it's a biker gang initiation, but that is a story for another thread and why you don't go to bars that are organized crime fronts.
 

stugatz

Pelican
I think that brown jacket was trying to defuse the situation...in the same way that you'd expect a white oklahoma football player to behave. He didn't expect short guy to start hammering on him (which is retarded situational awareness...expect to be punched by anyone angry in proximity to you if you are in a bar)
Now that I rewatch this, I think he WAS trying to defuse it in his own clueless way.

Telling him to "get the F out", waving his hand dismissively, and saying "Huh? You got something to say? What you got?" is going to piss off most people, especially the guy who just got punched by his loudmouth friend. I guess he thought that being condescending and low-key intimidating would work well enough (notice he's not doing anything to talk down his friend). What a moron.
 

Psalm27

Woodpecker
Gold Member
I have been thinking a lot about self-defense in the past few weeks or so. Here's my 5-tier self-defense system. Doesn't include guns because I can't use guns for self-defense in my country. Hell I can't even use pepper spray since it's illegal for civilians.

Tier 1: God
I first and foremost trust that God is my protector, that He will keep me safe and away from dangerous situations. But sometimes God may want me to be in dangerous situations, like if I need to defend someone else or if I am out sharing the gospel and confronted by hostile unbelievers.

Tier 2: Situational awareness
I'd say a lot of situations where you have to defend yourself come from being in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong things. Sometimes this is unavoidable but you can use basic intelligence to avoid dangerous places.

Tier 3: Social and verbal skills
If you do get into a self-defense situation it's best to first try and de-escalate the situation by using social and verbal skills, thus avoiding a fight. However I am not sure how I should train these skills, and obviously there are some red lines I won't cross like denying Christ or something like that.

Tier 4: Sprinting and running
Sometimes using social and verbal skills to diffuse a volatile situation may fail or if there's multiple attackers, or attackers with knives or baseball bats, then it's best to run away. Training sprinting and running is good not only for self-defense but for your health as well.

Tier 5: Martial arts or fighting styles
Sometimes you can't run, like if you have to defend your family or friends from attackers, or if an attacker grabs you and doesn't let go. Here's where martial arts skills come into play. What are some good martial arts or fighting styles? MMA, brazilian jiu-jitsu, judo, boxing, wrestling, sambo, muay thai etc. Make sure you practice something with full contact sparring or pressure testing. Martial arts are also good for fitness and health, if practiced safely.

Pro-tip: Screaming or yelling for help might be helpful as well. I know it's a more common tactic for females but it works for males as well. Just don't let your ego get in the way. There could be police, security guards or other help in shouting distance. Shouting for help is especially useful if you are facing multiple attackers.
 
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Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
Now that I rewatch this, I think he WAS trying to defuse it in his own clueless way.

Telling him to "get the F out", waving his hand dismissively, and saying "Huh? You got something to say? What you got?" is going to piss off most people, especially the guy who just got punched by his loudmouth friend. I guess he thought that being condescending and low-key intimidating would work well enough (notice he's not doing anything to talk down his friend). What a moron.

Correct. That's where I thought he was actually trying to defuse the situation. He is breaking up the fight in the same way that you would try to break up a scuffle on the sports field between players, like a coach or team captain.

Not drinking, not going to bars at all saves you from all of this risk and drama.
 

stugatz

Pelican
Correct. That's where I thought he was actually trying to defuse the situation. He is breaking up the fight in the same way that you would try to break up a scuffle on the sports field between players, like a coach or team captain.

Not drinking, not going to bars at all saves you from all of this risk and drama.
Was a bartender before the coof kicked off, and yeah - alcohol makes people crazier than I'd ever expected. This is why I've always emphasized that knowing 150 cocktails isn't nearly as important as being able to cut someone off without angering them and causing a problem.
 

C-Note

Ostrich
Gold Member
Correct. That's where I thought he was actually trying to defuse the situation. He is breaking up the fight in the same way that you would try to break up a scuffle on the sports field between players, like a coach or team captain.

Not drinking, not going to bars at all saves you from all of this risk and drama.
I read somewhere recently that the short guy who beat up the football player has to have surgery to repair his torn bicep muscle. He asked for $50K on GoFundMe to pay for the surgery and was able to raise almost all of it in only a few days.

Ironically, if the football player's broken eye socket didn't seriously damage any tissue or muscle, then his injury is arguably less severe in the long wrong than the guy who tore his bicep. Severely torn muscles very often are never the same again, even when repaired by very good doctors.
 

Easy_C

Peacock
Dude from the first video looks like a kickboxer or such. Look at his footwork, he instinctively drops into an offset stance like you find in boxers.
 

asdf

Robin
Things that have put me in bad situations:

Drinking/smoking weed in public
Pursuing sexual encounters
Being out late
Going to shitty bars
Driving aggressively or angered by a road encounter

So, in my experience, stop getting drunk or high, stop being a pervert, come home before midnight, stop going to lower class bars, drive defensively without getting angry.

Also in my opinion, the best self defense tool is pepper spray and the best self defense martial art is boxing (for encounters involving no weapons of course). But ive never had it when I needed it because when you're prepared, you are probably not doing something really stupid.
 
Correct. That's where I thought he was actually trying to defuse the situation. He is breaking up the fight in the same way that you would try to break up a scuffle on the sports field between players, like a coach or team captain.

Not drinking, not going to bars at all saves you from all of this risk and drama.

Drunkenness may allow aggression. But being effective in violence requires sobriety. So drunkenness isn't a manly trait as a result.
 
I am a mid-level blue belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, getting back into it and getting more active after having recently neglected it because of my career. I have also done kick-boxing, some Muay-Thai, MMA, and Kali/knife training. I didn't do enough Muay Thai except to get an overview of the basics. I am decent in some BJJ techniques and some Kali/knife stuff.

On the firearms level my main "go to arms" are.

LWRC REPR 20 Rifle (Caliber 7.62mm NATO) with the 20 inch barrel. Plus a Leupold Mark 4 M1 Extended Range Tactical Riflescope, I also have side-mounted off-set backup iron sights on the rifle and a Harris bipod. I have used it to hit man-sized steel plates at 1100 meters. It is a sub-MOA rifle and on my best days with quality ammuniton I am a sub-MOA shooter. I normally run 175gr Sierra Gold Metal Match because it is the best off-the-shelf high quality load and with my career I simply don't have the time to hand-load.

I also have a Barrett M107A1 Rifle in .50 BMG with a Leupold Mark 8 M1 Extended Range Tactical Riflescope, 3.5-25 variable power 25x56mm, with the H59 Horus Reticle.

For anything under 300 meters I have a 10.5 inch barrel SBR AR-15 in 5.56mm NATO with a 1/7 twist barrel [I mainly run 77gr Gold Metal Match through it]. It is equipped with a Trijicon ACOG with RMR, and off-set backup iron sights, along with a Holosun LE420 IR illuminator/aimer which has infrared and visible light settings, the infrared illuminator and laser work with my PVS-14 Gen 3 night vision which I run on an Advanced Combat Helmet with a G24 Wilcox mount. I also have a Surefire SOCOM quick-detach suppressor on the rifle, which mounts to the Surefire proprietary muzzle brake.

For daily carry, I carry a Gerber 6 auto-opener knife, a TDI retention kabar knife, a Gerber boot dagger, a Glock 19 [or 29 depending on if I am west or east of the Mississippi] along with 2-3 spare magazines, a quick-clot combat gauze packet, israeli compression dressing, and a CAT tourniquet. I also carry a 1200 lumen flashlight to be drawn by my off-hand.

Avoidance, situational awareness, being willing to walk away from an argument or a shoving match over a spot in a line at a store, staying alert and sober, being wise in who you choose to associate with, will go about 95% of the way to keeping you out of trouble. Don't hang around losers, don't go places you have no legitimate business being, obey the laws, don't associate with known drug-users/dealers/pimps/whores/pushers/etc., and don't throw your life away arguing over a parking space.

I was recently in a store where there was a line at the gun counter and some young thug who was dressed in an antifa manner cut in line and this resulted in a shouting match and shoving match with store employees and other customers. I suffered from the cutting in line but I decided, "I'm out of here before this turns into a melee and the police swoop down and bust everybody for disorderly conduct." I just turned around and left. I was only there to look, I wasn't going to buy anything, and I could possibly have enough guns so it wasn't as though I only had 1 or 2 or 3 and needed a particular gun to fill a particular role, I was just going to look. There was nothing in that store or that line worth my freedom, money, or my life.

When you are confident, "I could kill that person in hand-to-hand combat, or with my knife, or with my pistol in less than 5 seconds" you tend to get good at avoiding situations because the risk of escalation is just too much, and you don't actually want to be in a situation where you kill somebody, for various reasons. Ultimately, once you know, "I am physically capable of this" there is nothing to prove, and nobody to prove it to. Discretion makes far more sense.

MMA skills, guns, knives, are like insurance policies. It doesn't mean you charge headlong into a confrontation that could have been avoided. You don't purposefully steer your car into a tree just because you have collision insurance.
 

Stats

Woodpecker
I have been practicing martial arts for 20+ years. I have been in 3 real life fights.

Real fights are never fair. its always multiple attackers or armed criminals trying to ambush the easiest victims. without situational awareness everything else is useless. running away is better in 99% of situations even if you are sure to win the fight.

learn the rear neck choke from bbj and spend the rest of the time training muy thai, krav maga/systema. the choke is by far the best way to safely end real world fights without any one getting hurt (I have prevented at least one or two murders with it myself. and muy thai and krav, are the two that will teach you the brutality that is needed in a real life or death situation. beyond that find the best legal weapon that you can carry with you at all times.

personally I use a tactical key for the street because its small and can always be with you, or a tactical flashlight at night, but tasers and pepper spray also good

for home defense I have a gun, samurai sword, kukri, nunchucks and a laser
 
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Dr Mantis Toboggan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I am a mid-level blue belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, getting back into it and getting more active after having recently neglected it because of my career. I have also done kick-boxing, some Muay-Thai, MMA, and Kali/knife training. I didn't do enough Muay Thai except to get an overview of the basics. I am decent in some BJJ techniques and some Kali/knife stuff.

On the firearms level my main "go to arms" are.

LWRC REPR 20 Rifle (Caliber 7.62mm NATO) with the 20 inch barrel. Plus a Leupold Mark 4 M1 Extended Range Tactical Riflescope, I also have side-mounted off-set backup iron sights on the rifle and a Harris bipod. I have used it to hit man-sized steel plates at 1100 meters. It is a sub-MOA rifle and on my best days with quality ammuniton I am a sub-MOA shooter. I normally run 175gr Sierra Gold Metal Match because it is the best off-the-shelf high quality load and with my career I simply don't have the time to hand-load.

I also have a Barrett M107A1 Rifle in .50 BMG with a Leupold Mark 8 M1 Extended Range Tactical Riflescope, 3.5-25 variable power 25x56mm, with the H59 Horus Reticle.

For anything under 300 meters I have a 10.5 inch barrel SBR AR-15 in 5.56mm NATO with a 1/7 twist barrel [I mainly run 77gr Gold Metal Match through it]. It is equipped with a Trijicon ACOG with RMR, and off-set backup iron sights, along with a Holosun LE420 IR illuminator/aimer which has infrared and visible light settings, the infrared illuminator and laser work with my PVS-14 Gen 3 night vision which I run on an Advanced Combat Helmet with a G24 Wilcox mount. I also have a Surefire SOCOM quick-detach suppressor on the rifle, which mounts to the Surefire proprietary muzzle brake.

For daily carry, I carry a Gerber 6 auto-opener knife, a TDI retention kabar knife, a Gerber boot dagger, a Glock 19 [or 29 depending on if I am west or east of the Mississippi] along with 2-3 spare magazines, a quick-clot combat gauze packet, israeli compression dressing, and a CAT tourniquet. I also carry a 1200 lumen flashlight to be drawn by my off-hand.

Avoidance, situational awareness, being willing to walk away from an argument or a shoving match over a spot in a line at a store, staying alert and sober, being wise in who you choose to associate with, will go about 95% of the way to keeping you out of trouble. Don't hang around losers, don't go places you have no legitimate business being, obey the laws, don't associate with known drug-users/dealers/pimps/whores/pushers/etc., and don't throw your life away arguing over a parking space.

I was recently in a store where there was a line at the gun counter and some young thug who was dressed in an antifa manner cut in line and this resulted in a shouting match and shoving match with store employees and other customers. I suffered from the cutting in line but I decided, "I'm out of here before this turns into a melee and the police swoop down and bust everybody for disorderly conduct." I just turned around and left. I was only there to look, I wasn't going to buy anything, and I could possibly have enough guns so it wasn't as though I only had 1 or 2 or 3 and needed a particular gun to fill a particular role, I was just going to look. There was nothing in that store or that line worth my freedom, money, or my life.

When you are confident, "I could kill that person in hand-to-hand combat, or with my knife, or with my pistol in less than 5 seconds" you tend to get good at avoiding situations because the risk of escalation is just too much, and you don't actually want to be in a situation where you kill somebody, for various reasons. Ultimately, once you know, "I am physically capable of this" there is nothing to prove, and nobody to prove it to. Discretion makes far more sense.

MMA skills, guns, knives, are like insurance policies. It doesn't mean you charge headlong into a confrontation that could have been avoided. You don't purposefully steer your car into a tree just because you have collision insurance.

Good post--curious about the bolded though? Just a personal quirk?

My EDC gun is a S&W MP Shield or a Glock 19, depending on the climate (warmer weather = less clothing = the Shield). Would like to replace the Shield with a Glock 43X but haven't been able to find one in stock at a reasonable price in a while.
 
Good post--curious about the bolded though? Just a personal quirk?

My EDC gun is a S&W MP Shield or a Glock 19, depending on the climate (warmer weather = less clothing = the Shield). Would like to replace the Shield with a Glock 43X but haven't been able to find one in stock at a reasonable price in a while.
If I am anywhere where I may encounter highly dangerous wildlife such as bears, wolves, mountain lions, etc., I will swap out the 9mm for a 10mm. I really like the 10mm.
 
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