Self-Defense

MichaelWitcoff

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Why go Krav Magra when Bas Rutten teaches you everything and is much funnier.


Seriously though, the side step and scoop is probably the best technique. Bas Breaks this down pretty well. Someone (another drunken Marine) did this to me onetime because they thought it was funny. I grabbed his genitals. That worked too, but someone who is really determined might have been less receptive to this if they were legit trying to kill me.

A rear naked choke gives you about 6 seconds or less before you are out if they know what they are doing.

Any martial arts you practice and which emphasizes violence of action is going to give you a fighting chance.

Bas on the McDojo people:


Michael: how did you solve that situation?
I couldn’t see out of my left eye and didn’t know why exactly (might have been destroyed or something else, didn’t know at the time). Turned out whatever I’d been smashed with cut a gaping hole above my eyebrow and the blood was pouring into the eye and blinding it. Had no defense for that of course because I still don’t even know who hit me or with what. A moment afterward I was shoved backward onto a couch, where a guy choked me with one hand and started punching me with the other. I’ve trained choke defenses a thousand times and time kind of slowed down, like I was in the Matrix or something, as my instincts kicked in. I plucked the choke with one hand and kept it pinned to my chest so he couldn’t get his hand back, and stood up / started moving forward and punching him with my other hand. As soon as the “who’s the aggressor here” situation changed - the whole point of KM’s mentality and counters - he started trying to block my punches instead of hitting me, so I eventually let his other hand go and shoved him away from me. After that he ran away, probably assuming he’d go to jail if he were still there if/when cops showed up, and I ended up taking a cab to the ER where I needed 9 stitches (hurt more than the blow that caused the cut actually). It was the first and only time I’ve used KM in real life and was very grateful to have trained choke defenses to fluency.

I like Bas’s general idea there but I’d add a groin strike with my outside hand as I rotated into the guy’s arm. Rear naked choke, if you have the wherewithal to realize what’s happening before you pass out, can also be ended with ear tears or eye gouges depending on what the bad guy’s head position is.
 

get2choppaaa

Ostrich
I couldn’t see out of my left eye and didn’t know why exactly (might have been destroyed or something else, didn’t know at the time). Turned out whatever I’d been smashed with cut a gaping hole above my eyebrow and the blood was pouring into the eye and blinding it. Had no defense for that of course because I still don’t even know who hit me or with what. A moment afterward I was shoved backward onto a couch, where a guy choked me with one hand and started punching me with the other. I’ve trained choke defenses a thousand times and time kind of slowed down, like I was in the Matrix or something, as my instincts kicked in. I plucked the choke with one hand and kept it pinned to my chest so he couldn’t get his hand back, and stood up / started moving forward and punching him with my other hand. As soon as the “who’s the aggressor here” situation changed - the whole point of KM’s mentality and counters - he started trying to block my punches instead of hitting me, so I eventually let his other hand go and shoved him away from me. After that he ran away, probably assuming he’d go to jail if he were still there if/when cops showed up, and I ended up taking a cab to the ER where I needed 9 stitches (hurt more than the blow that caused the cut actually). It was the first and only time I’ve used KM in real life and was very grateful to have trained choke defenses to fluency.

I like Bas’s general idea there but I’d add a groin strike with my outside hand as I rotated into the guy’s arm. Rear naked choke, if you have the wherewithal to realize what’s happening before you pass out, can also be ended with ear tears or eye gouges depending on what the bad guy’s head position is.
Bas is a double tapper on the groin strikes. If once is good, two is better is my mentality. Sounds like you did pretty well all things considered.

Bas's wrist control to an arm bar demonstrated later in the video is pretty good. The problem is that most people see something like this and think it's that easy but have never experienced a belligerent whos fighting back. I do think there is benefit to some static training and practice, but more than anything sparring is what is needed.


Getting hit in the face with a bottle or a glass is pretty gnarly. Hollywood has made that depiction pretty unrealistic. When my wife was a paramedic she saw people who'd lost eyes or had slashes across their face from beer bottles being used as a bludgeon.

Did you have any idea why this person attacked you?

I am assuming de-escalation was not an option.
 

MichaelWitcoff

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Bas is a double tapper on the groin strikes. If once is good, two is better is my mentality. Sounds like you did pretty well all things considered.

Bas's wrist control to an arm bar demonstrated later in the video is pretty good. The problem is that most people see something like this and think it's that easy but have never experienced a belligerent whos fighting back. I do think there is benefit to some static training and practice, but more than anything sparring is what is needed.


Getting hit in the face with a bottle or a glass is pretty gnarly. Hollywood has made that depiction pretty unrealistic. When my wife was a paramedic she saw people who'd lost eyes or had slashes across their face from beer bottles being used as a bludgeon.

Did you have any idea why this person attacked you?

I am assuming de-escalation was not an option.
Some drunk woman yelled at me at the bar “don’t steal my drink” as I tried to get back to the table with my friends, and I forcefully told her that I don’t know who she is or care about her drink. I’m guessing somebody saw me facing her and her being angry at me (maybe she thought I was someone else, who knows) and thought I was the aggressor in the situation. I don’t think I’ll ever know exactly what happened. Somewhere I have a selfie from the ER that night, will post if I can find it so you can see how bad the cut was.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
So do you have an answer to my question?

What was the question?

Have i been in fights?

Yes, many, especially in growing up and in 20s. Last fight was two years back, i was drunk like an idiot, and end up cracking my skull on pavement, resulting in a bad concussion that took months to shake off.

Fights are absolutely retarded. Any sensible, non intoxicated (a habit ive since ditched) man will only fight when absolutely no option otherwise. In mid forties anyone having even semi regular fights is retarded. I train boxing 3-4 times week and spar as and when.

That is the only way to have consistent testing, without being a reckless idiot getting into fights in street, into middle age.
 

Dr Mantis Toboggan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I agree with that, hence my saying to avoid McDojos.

How easy is that though? Again I'm not an expert on KM so could well be off base but its reputation in the US is that the vast majority (like 90+% and probably more than that outside NYC, DC, etc) of places claiming to teach it are McDojos teaching Bullshido knife defense stuff mixed with cardio kickboxing to soccer moms. Do you think that's an unfair characterization?

KM from a legit school could well be more effective for street self defense than MT, boxing, BJJ, MMA, etc but if virtually all schools in the US claiming to teach the former are fraudulent and most schools teaching any of the latter are legitimate (because it can be tested in sparring), doesn't that make one of those more accessible styles the better/safer choice for the average person unless they have some way of verifying that the local KM instructor is in fact the real deal?
 

MichaelWitcoff

Hummingbird
Orthodox
How easy is that though? Again I'm not an expert on KM so could well be off base but its reputation in the US is that the vast majority (like 90+% and probably more than that outside NYC, DC, etc) of places claiming to teach it are McDojos teaching Bullshido knife defense stuff mixed with cardio kickboxing to soccer moms. Do you think that's an unfair characterization?

KM from a legit school could well be more effective for street self defense than MT, boxing, BJJ, MMA, etc but if virtually all schools in the US claiming to teach the former are fraudulent and most schools teaching any of the latter are legitimate (because it can be tested in sparring), doesn't that make one of those more accessible styles the better/safer choice for the average person unless they have some way of verifying that the local KM instructor is in fact the real deal?
It's very difficult. I've met exactly two instructors who I think are worth learning from, and sadly Krav Maga Worldwide - the ultimate McDojo - is the most widespread and popular of all KM schools. If someone wants to know if there's anything worth learning from, feel free to reach out to me and I'll ask one of the guys I trust. Whatever you do, avoid Krav Maga Worldwide. Look at this nonsense:


"Getting in shape" is not the point of Krav Maga and is a way for instructors to milk money out of their students, taking up half the class doing push-ups and playing stupid little fitness games. As my first teacher said, "If you want to get in shape, run around the block before you get here." The gun disarm at 0:22 is a good example of how bad the teaching is; the "defender" doesn't even pin the attacker's arm, he just leaves it hanging in space where the "attacker" can easily pull his arm back and reposition. They thought his technique was good enough to put in a promo video, and you would lose that situation in real life. Avoid!
 

fortyfive

Woodpecker
I will add my two cents, after 2. years of doing Judo, and some 11 years of Muay Thai. (last sparring yesterday).
I don't have experience with Krav maga or similar defense systems, but I don't consider these arts worthless. On youtube presentations, they are showing great tricks for many situations in which they could work. (if executed right and quickly).
The problem with any complex technique is different. The main issue is thinking.
Any technique requiring thinking before performing is practically useless in an unexpected brutal attack. Because in survival mode, there is no time and ability to think. You can't slow down time, like in the matrix movie.
Your defense (if any) is automatic, unconscious. (like breathing)

If you were in the boxing ring ever (where you know what to expect), then you know, that with a skilled, fast, aggressive opponent, beating you, there is no time to think. You are standing in the corner in survival mode, and you are using only, what is programmed inside you unconsciously. (or after years of training).

That doesn't mean you don't need to think when boxing. Quite opposite, especially, classic boxing requires a lot of thinking, strategy, feinting, ducking, looking when and where to punch, and so on. With the right mindset (just a sport, no killing rage), it is a very playful sport that is possible to doing it with a smiling face and enjoying catching your opponent with hands down. I like such sparring very much.
Muay Thai is not so funny, much harder, painful, many injuries (this year, I'm sparring solely without shin protectors).

But even during a frequently trained sport like MT, you can observe one interesting thing. For example, we are doing some pad works and combinations. Simply or more complex combos with jabs, crosses, hooks, knees, kicks, and similar. Then we began sparring. And you'll be thinking: now everybody would be using some of these fancy combinations in sparring.
But nobody is using them. Why? Because they are useless?
No, they are very effective. But for using these complex combos and defenses, you need to think.
And there is no ability to think when a 220 lbs man is punching you to the head and kicking to ribs with full force.
You are reacting only in automated, habitual mode. Jab, cross, round kick, and again, is my automatic answer in high-stress mode. Nothing else. Only with easy, slow guys, I can try to do sophisticated combos. For doing complex things, you need time and safety.

But street fights are deliberately unexpected, dirty, unfair, full of hate and intention to harm.
If not possible to avoid, you need to react effectively, but most important, automatically. There will be no luxury of time for thinking.
To become an automatic, instinctive fighter, you need to fight a lot, repeatedly, beat other people, and let them beat you. (of course, that needs to be trained in the gym, not on the street, if you don't want to end up in jail or worse).
And then you'll be what you repeatedly do. Experienced fighter. Not the best, because there will be always someone better, but good enough for most situations.
Although this way is not for many people. Very few people don't mind being routinely beaten. In my experience, most guys, even those who are doing boxing regularly, don't like sparring. Pads, bags, cardio, ok, but sparring somewhat reluctantly. I think a man needs to be born with it.

And the last piece of advice. Do sport or martial art what you like and enjoy. When you'll be doing it with a passion, then you'll be much better at it, and satisfied with your choice.



Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit. Aristotle
 
Here's a real life self-defense situation I saw recently:


Notice that the perpetrator approached the victim in a friendly way, then attacked him when he was off-guard and in a compromised position. So, you can see how some of the self-defense techniques espoused in this and other threads would have been of use here, namely:

1. Carry yourself in a way that looks at least somewhat intimidating. I suspect that the attacker sized-up the victim as he was approaching and decided that he would be easier to subdue than most.

2. If a stranger who looks like that makes a beeline for you in a sketchy area, as happened here, assume a defensive posture or take an alternate route to avoid him. If he still comes after you, you can try running away before he gets his hands on you. It looks like the victim tried to pull out a can of pepper spray and you can see how well that worked. Looks like the attacker used a simple judo move to get the victim on the ground.

I understand now why the wealthy hire bodyguards! Lol But there was actually a case in New Orleans, where a wealthy elderly man went to pay his respects to his wife's grave. Well, despite having *two* armed professional bodyguards, they were still jumped and overpowered by some very vicious and motivated gang members! It made the papers at the time...
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Dont know how you can live around Black Americans, other than by the credo of Never Relax.

Even then the chaotic violence they leave a trail of wherever they go can still find you.

I can't think of any other demographic on the planet i'd least rather live around tbh.
 

budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
Here's a real life self-defense situation I saw recently:


Notice that the perpetrator approached the victim in a friendly way, then attacked him when he was off-guard and in a compromised position. So, you can see how some of the self-defense techniques espoused in this and other threads would have been of use here, namely:

1. Carry yourself in a way that looks at least somewhat intimidating. I suspect that the attacker sized-up the victim as he was approaching and decided that he would be easier to subdue than most.

2. If a stranger who looks like that makes a beeline for you in a sketchy area, as happened here, assume a defensive posture or take an alternate route to avoid him. If he still comes after you, you can try running away before he gets his hands on you. It looks like the victim tried to pull out a can of pepper spray and you can see how well that worked. Looks like the attacker used a simple judo move to get the victim on the ground.
That's an extremely brutal and senseless attack. It's tough to watch.

A couple of things:
1. Note the attacker's pace of walking. He went right up to his target pretty quickly. This is why one's sense of awareness is important in a situation like this.
2. Instead of keeping a distance and moving away from the attacker, the target was in a static standing position.
3. Target initiated the first move by placing his hand on the attacker's arm to try to move away. Unfortunately, he was too close to the attacker who managed to grab his left arm while placing his right hand on the neck - like a "clinching" position - to go straight to the ground.
4. Target's reaction & timing was too slow.

Target needs to start lifting weights and take up some fighting skills.
 

get2choppaaa

Ostrich
That's an extremely brutal and senseless attack. It's tough to watch.

A couple of things:
1. Note the attacker's pace of walking. He went right up to his target pretty quickly. This is why one's sense of awareness is important in a situation like this.
2. Instead of keeping a distance and moving away from the attacker, the target was in a static standing position.
3. Target initiated the first move by placing his hand on the attacker's arm to try to move away. Unfortunately, he was too close to the attacker who managed to grab his left arm while placing his right hand on the neck - like a "clinching" position - to go straight to the ground.
4. Target's reaction & timing was too slow.

Target needs to start lifting weights and take up some fighting skills.
Basics of create distance and defensive posture are not engrained in most individuals who grow up watching movies and maybe have been in 1 playground fight their whole life.

I second the comment about weightlifting. If he had a 17 inch neck i bet he wouldn't be getting floored the way he did.
 

Cartographer

Pelican
Gold Member
That's an extremely brutal and senseless attack. It's tough to watch.

A couple of things:
1. Note the attacker's pace of walking. He went right up to his target pretty quickly. This is why one's sense of awareness is important in a situation like this.
2. Instead of keeping a distance and moving away from the attacker, the target was in a static standing position.
3. Target initiated the first move by placing his hand on the attacker's arm to try to move away. Unfortunately, he was too close to the attacker who managed to grab his left arm while placing his right hand on the neck - like a "clinching" position - to go straight to the ground.
4. Target's reaction & timing was too slow.

Target needs to start lifting weights and take up some fighting skills.
Excellent list.

I'd bet money the target in this case was obviously stoned or drunk. He's walking with his arms static at his sides in a weird way. Also, you see him put his hand up to his mouth like he's asking for a cigarette from the attacker.

@El Draque the victim is also black.
 

C-Note

Hummingbird
Gold Member
It is pretty easy to tell -or assess - which person is a threat base on his behavior and body language.
One other thing that most people with common sense would or should know, is that when you're walking in an urban area, if a stranger makes a beeline directly for you it likely means trouble. You need to make some distance, fast, by at least crossing the street. If they cross the street after you, start running.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
@El Draque the victim is also black.


Nope.

caea0720-ca97-4e5e-8f48-39ad031a1578.png





 

budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member

From the above mentioned article:
He says he was in Seattle visiting a friend for a "mental break" when the mugging occurred. Video footage shows Caliber near the parking lot by Cash America on Rainier Avenue when a man in an orange shirt approaches him. The suspect then says something to Caliber, before grabbing him by the neck and pulling him to the ground. He then kicks him in the head, before stomping on his nose. As Caliber lies unconscious, the suspect robbed him of his iPhone 12, at least $900 cash, a friend's car keys, and his wallet and cards. Footage of the incident was published by Jason Rantz, of KTTH Radio.

Can't help but wonder if the suspect cased the target beforehand somewhere before attacking & robbing him.
 
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