Self help gurus urging men to stay single in their twenties

Papaya

Peacock
Gold Member
This topic as well as similar topics were discussed in great detail and insight in the forum's previous iteration.

In the end all posited responses are lacking because you cant answer a one"size fits all " position to an essentially infinite variable question.

Its essentially an "identity politics" type non sequitur question that demands "all else being equal" assumptions,,,but they arent

Not all 20-25 yo men are created equal

Mindset (#1 for a reason)
Intention
Intelligence
Competency / capabilities
Physical attributes
Emotional attributes
Belief system
Upbringing
Support system
Education
etc
etc

As Ive stated before. The good news for young men is that the dearth in quality women is only exceeded by the dearth of quality men.

Become a man worthy and capable of attaining, leading and keeping a good woman. Do that and you can stop about getting the "right answer" to the age question
 
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GibsMeDat

Sparrow
All I know is that if I married a good girl when I was 18 - 21, I would have likely been divorce raped father down the line. Yes, I was pulling good girls with relative ease back then, but I didn't know enough about life or game to lead her as a man. It was just starry-eyed romance made convenient by mutual schooling. The chances of her sticking by my side while I spent years discovering my masculinity are slim to none. We're supposed to have it "figured out", remember? Getting divorce raped in my 20s would have cratered my life. Dodged those bullets like the Matrix.

Unless you were a Chad in your teen years and married your "high school sweetheart", I don't think it's wise to pull the trigger on marriage so early. Most men these days are not inheriting wisdom or red pills from their parents, so they have to spend extra time in the real world figuring it out for themselves. This coupled with the need to hone a marketable skill and set yourself up financially makes the 20s a prime time to solely self-develop.

Most romantic challenges that men are experiencing revolve around poor quality women in Western cities. This can largely be solved by moving to greener female pastures. Which is where the financial base and sharp skills come in. Age is less of a barrier in healthier societies.

This is facts. And maybe this is facts because almost everyone goes to college these days. And that's when you're around the most girls. And also when you're most delusional about the world. You need to get bent over and screwed by the real world a few times before you know what it means to be a Man, and what it means to lead a woman, let alone lead a life.
 

AntoniusofEfa

Woodpecker
I know of one, Coach Greg Adams, who never calls himself a guru. He advocates the free agent lifestyle:


  • No Marriage
  • No cohabitation
  • Self-employment

The stories in his call in shows are scary, and yet, nothing out of the ordinary in this day and age.

There is an upside: there was never a better time to be a man. Women are now taken care of by the government, and all of this is by their choice. For us men it means that we are off the hook! Whenever a woman asks for something, you can refer her to the nearest government program for xyx. Gone are the days of having to (directly) provide. Now one just pays his taxes. And whenever the government needs more money to cater to whiny socialists, they can just print it off! What a wonderful world.

Guys: Take care of yourself, both mentally and physically. Stack gold, silver, real estate, guns, bullets and other non-depreciating assets. All of this is a much better investment than some used up psleeve.
 
I've come across a bunch of self improvement gurus who urge you to stay single, at least in your early twenties, and then only settle down after 30 or even later twenties.

Assuming you stay out of fornication, is this recommendable? I feel it will be harder to meet and court younger women as you get older.
The assumption here is that you get to meet a woman you would like to wife on a precise schedule. I met my wife when I was 19 and she was 18. I am not sure telling her to come back and see me in 11 years would have been such a good idea.
 
The assumption here is that you get to meet a woman you would like to wife on a precise schedule. I met my wife when I was 19 and she was 18. I am not sure telling her to come back and see me in 11 years would have been such a good idea.
It should be acknowledged that a lot has changed in dating scene for 19year olds boys over the last 11 years. So your experiences might not translate perfectly to today. For a primer watch:
 

kel

Ostrich
I will keep this short and not break forum rules. I will furthermore say I am not promoting this morally, nor suggesting that it's wise strategically. But, the fact remains that in my personal experience, younger women (women in their 20s, say: older zoomers and younger millennials) will offer validation to the idea of numaledom, fulfilling that social obligation, but are nonetheless sexually and romantically as uninterested in those numales as logic and memes dictate and have a strong preference for men - yes, even older (30s) men like myself - with some game, masculine traits and demeanor, and who offer them fun and romance within the traditional gender paradigm those women are - despite decades of globalist propaganda - still biologically wired to seek.

Now, I'm not married so take it with a grain of salt and the other disclaimers above, but there it is. I am not worried, at all, about my ability to "compete" with your typical 23 year old young "man". And I don't feel that bad about it, at least no worse than I feel about the state of society in general. The worthy zoomer males - there are many on this very forum - will make it, either now or later in life once they've got their situation set up, and the losers will be losers because that's what they are and you can't spend your life feeling bad for them.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
I will keep this short and not break forum rules. I will furthermore say I am not promoting this morally, nor suggesting that it's wise strategically. But, the fact remains that in my personal experience, younger women (women in their 20s, say: older zoomers and younger millennials) will offer validation to the idea of numaledom, fulfilling that social obligation, but are nonetheless sexually and romantically as uninterested in those numales as logic and memes dictate and have a strong preference for men - yes, even older (30s) men like myself - with some game, masculine traits and demeanor, and who offer them fun and romance within the traditional gender paradigm those women are - despite decades of globalist propaganda - still biologically wired to seek.

Now, I'm not married so take it with a grain of salt and the other disclaimers above, but there it is. I am not worried, at all, about my ability to "compete" with your typical 23 year old young "man". And I don't feel that bad about it, at least no worse than I feel about the state of society in general. The worthy zoomer males - there are many on this very forum - will make it, either now or later in life once they've got their situation set up, and the losers will be losers because that's what they are and you can't spend your life feeling bad for them.
I'm not really sure what you are saying but I think I see what you're getting at. I quickly jumped through that silly youtube video and immediately thought, after viewing 10 comments, that my explanation for all of this is stone cold, rock solid = male to female ratio. It's just another version of the islamic suicide bombers in a corrupted, polygamist society. The problem is that, and I could tell this from the comments, the guys were all materialist nothings from mediocre families at best, their only hope is understanding life via Christianity but their shitty parents couldn't even give them that.
 

GibsMeDat

Sparrow
I will keep this short and not break forum rules. I will furthermore say I am not promoting this morally, nor suggesting that it's wise strategically. But, the fact remains that in my personal experience, younger women (women in their 20s, say: older zoomers and younger millennials) will offer validation to the idea of numaledom, fulfilling that social obligation, but are nonetheless sexually and romantically as uninterested in those numales as logic and memes dictate and have a strong preference for men - yes, even older (30s) men like myself - with some game, masculine traits and demeanor, and who offer them fun and romance within the traditional gender paradigm those women are - despite decades of globalist propaganda - still biologically wired to seek.

Now, I'm not married so take it with a grain of salt and the other disclaimers above, but there it is. I am not worried, at all, about my ability to "compete" with your typical 23 year old young "man". And I don't feel that bad about it, at least no worse than I feel about the state of society in general. The worthy zoomer males - there are many on this very forum - will make it, either now or later in life once they've got their situation set up, and the losers will be losers because that's what they are and you can't spend your life feeling bad for them.

Allow me to play the devil's advocate. Any early 20s woman would be seen as really weird by her peers if she married a guy in his 30s. It's just unheard of here such than many girls are stigmatized against it. So that's sort of what you'll get, are weird girls that will do that. Rarely normal girls. And normal isn't necessarily good in terms of morality. But normal is somewhat desirable in terms of personality. I want a normal wife. I don't want some weird red pilled trad virtue signalling girl
 
It should be acknowledged that a lot has changed in dating scene for 19year olds boys over the last 11 years. So your experiences might not translate perfectly to today. For a primer watch:
no doubt things are different for sure but i think my point that the timing of these things is out of our control still holds true
 

kel

Ostrich
Allow me to play the devil's advocate. Any early 20s woman would be seen as really weird by her peers if she married a guy in his 30s. It's just unheard of here such than many girls are stigmatized against it. So that's sort of what you'll get, are weird girls that will do that. Rarely normal girls. And normal isn't necessarily good in terms of morality. But normal is somewhat desirable in terms of personality. I want a normal wife. I don't want some weird red pilled trad virtue signalling girl
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but women are incredibly good at adapting like that, and ingratiating yourself with her friends (or pulling her away from toxic influences and setting her up with better friends) is part of your job. Once I stopped worrying about such things and just leaned in I never had any problems. Do classic game, tbh, but on her friends - if they say something to you about the age difference, playfully say their jealousy is showing, etc.
 

tothepoint

Woodpecker
Who is telling anybody to look for cat ladies? I certainly never said that in my post and nor have I ever seen that advice given.

I believe talking in absolutes does no good. There are plenty of women in their mid to late 20's whose sense of entitlement is not through the roof. Yes there are plenty of women who do have a large sense of entitlement but also plenty who don't.

Didn't someone one this forum make a post about getting married within the past year or so? I'm pretty sure the woman the RVF member married was in her mid-20's (I could be remembering wrong though).

Look at Cernovich. He's what in his mid 40's or so? And his (beautiful) wife is in her early 30's right now, and that's after having 2 kids with Mike? Meaning they met when she was in her mid to late 20's and him in his late 30's/early 40's? How much of a difference in the happiness of Mike's life would it have made if he had met Shauna several years earlier when she was in her early 20's instead of her mid 20's, when she was at her "peak"? Yeah, she was probably a little bit hotter, but in the grand scheme of things does it really matter? After 2 kids and in her early 30's now she still looks great. Good for Mike and good for Shauna.

I was talking in general population terms. When you look at individuals of course you will find outliers.

Don't get me wrong, I don't subscribe to this advice that you should wait until your 30s. But if you do then it better be worth it. Imo, I think the best age to get married is 18-22. This way you kids are already adults when you hit 40.
Economically married couples tend to do better and this is supported by data so the earlier the better.
 
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Ludelos

Pigeon
26 year old male here.

You guys should listen to the fresh and fit podcast to gain a perspective of how the dating market is for younger men. The modern day hook-up culture does not benefit those looking for serious relationships. You will have to fight tooth and nail as you navigate through a cesspool of hive-minded feminists just to find a decent woman who might be willing to submit if she sees value in it. It's best for most young men to just focus on themselves in their 20s and then to entertain the possibility of seeking a wife and kids after accumulating sufficient wealth. If it doesn't happen, just aim for retirement.

I definitely had multiple chances to date 18-24 women when I was in college but I like most young men lacked the game, red-pilled knowledge and effort required to pursue and maintain long-term relationships. Most young men and women are not looking to get married after college anymore. There are a few decent women who are raised with good values but most of them have bought into the feminest agenda and are too busy focusing on pursuing careers. Many are delusional and refuse to settle for the average working man.

Don't underestimate how fast it is for women to accumulate baggage. Plenty of women are burned out by men who ran through them by the time they turn 21. Young men are also accumulating more baggage than ever before but become more adept at handling it as they develop and mature. Online dating has taken over. People exchange IG handles before exchanging phone numbers. The bottom 80% of young men don't have a shot of landing a high value woman unless they have their shit together during their first two years of college. Students are less keen on socializing with their peers other than to network and increase their focus to graduating and obtaining internships by junior and senior year.

I haven't even mentioned all the girls with the onlyfans and premium snapchat accounts. There are also more beautiful women trying out for porn more than ever before. Young men have to deal with unprecedented levels of entitlement and thottery from these young women!
 
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tomzestatlu

Kingfisher
I think that staying totally away from girls is nonsense. Yes, there´s a chance, that if you spend next 10 years closed in your garage working on something, you will be next billionaire. But there´s big chance you won´t . But another extreme is going out 5 nights a week and chasing girls.
It´s about balance, you can still do both, work on yourself and socialize with girls.

Brain is creating your reality every moment in your life and if you lock yourself from girls, in few years the result would be similar as if you locked 7 yo child from meeting with another children. Both of you will lack something, that is only created by interaction with other poeple.
I am not saying you have to necesarilly marry first girl you meet. I think that we all have that one girl, that was "perfect" from our today´s perspective and regret not starting a family with her. But we are not perfect too and we learn all our lifes. That means, that maybe we met a girl, that was ready, but we weren´t ready.

Since "that" break-up, it has been for me a long period of casual dating and things that some of guys here may judge, but it´s important part of my journey (as well of other members of the forum, even though they might deny it for fear of God and maybe their bitterness for realizing too late). Now I feel I might be ready, to meet good girl again, but as we all know, it´s too damn difficult.

I am getting close to 30 years and even though I haven´t build my life yet, I don´t want to wait until 40 or 50. Even though few years ago this forum gave me image of me being "mature gantleman in suit dating 15 years younger girls", recently I became more and more opened to settling in my age area (or even a little bit higher). It´s a fact, that from perspective of body, it´s best for woman to have kids just little above 20. And definitely I had young girls around me willing to do this, but I also seek somebody to share my life with (even the struggles) and girl, who didn´t experienced any bigger hardship than being bored at school can´t cover this.
And 30 yo woman has still good chance to have healthy family, if she doesn´t miss her train because of globohomo. Of course I am talking about girl that went her life through long commitments.

Most importantly, I think that guys that advocate dating girl in her early twenties actually never did it or they did it long time ago. Young girls in 2021 are so different. And it´s not that much about indoctrination (but it also is), but mostly because of social media. It´s not social media in their case anymore, it´s a life-frame, they are living in. Literally it´s different reality, than we live and their are just imcompatible.

And I have to repeat - it´s incredibly difficult to find a girl or woman worth commitment. It doesn´t matter if she is 18 or 25 or maybe even a little older - she must have decent history, provide decent genes (this is so under stressed on this forum) and be willing to be led. And that´s rare.
 

Amwolf

Robin
The only person whom you should seek guidance from is God. Mysticism and New Age sources are spiritually devoid as Fr. Seraphim Rose clearly pointed out in Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future.
 

MikeV12

Pigeon
I feel alot of these so called gurus arent looking at it from a Christian perspective but rather a worldly view. In the worldly view it would make sense to stay away from toxic girls who can only offer a snatch. Putting energy into a girl without plans of marriage is a waste of energy.
I believe if its Gods will he will send a woman to a Christian man
 

MilvianForce

Sparrow
Interesting reads here, I appreciate the insights.

I don't think there is anything set in stone. Yes you should settle down early in my eyes and start a family. You should work together as man and woman and build one another physically, mentally and spiritually. But how many men and women are ready for that? That's the question.

Last woman I dated was femine, had a good head on her shoulder, was from a religious family and pushed for education. We were on and off and as much of a red flag that was back then I didn't see it as that (I know, I know). When we got back together I put my best foot forward yet again I was blind sided. Studying for the toughest exam of my life and about a month away, I get a message "We should be more so friends". Long story short after two months of being apart and me going no contact I get a message she said "she realized I'm the one she wants to be with", after 8 years of knowing one another and 2 years on and off, now you realize? Looks like her monkey branch snapped or her "high" off life ended.

Anyways, there was the religious factor as well. I converted to Islam (before meeting her) but after diving into it, it was NOT the religion for me and it's something I did not want to pass onto my potential children at the same time I did not want to take her away from it. Basically, religion plays a large factor for women who are "on the set path" that is, marriage material so keep that in mind men.

It's a process, it really is, right time, right place, looks, environment etc. You don't want a woman to fall in love with what you are, but who you are and in there lies the trick. Yes be the best version of yourself and as I always tell the younger ones "Never chase these three things: money, death and women. These things, when you are working in improving yourself, accomplishing your goal and putting yourself out there, will come naturally".
 

Jive Turkey

Sparrow
All I know is that if I married a good girl when I was 18 - 21, I would have likely been divorce raped father down the line. Yes, I was pulling good girls with relative ease back then, but I didn't know enough about life or game to lead her as a man. It was just starry-eyed romance made convenient by mutual schooling. The chances of her sticking by my side while I spent years discovering my masculinity are slim to none. We're supposed to have it "figured out", remember? Getting divorce raped in my 20s would have cratered my life. Dodged those bullets like the Matrix.

Unless you were a Chad in your teen years and married your "high school sweetheart", I don't think it's wise to pull the trigger on marriage so early. Most men these days are not inheriting wisdom or red pills from their parents, so they have to spend extra time in the real world figuring it out for themselves. This coupled with the need to hone a marketable skill and set yourself up financially makes the 20s a prime time to solely self-develop.

Most romantic challenges that men are experiencing revolve around poor quality women in Western cities. This can largely be solved by moving to greener female pastures. Which is where the financial base and sharp skills come in. Age is less of a barrier in healthier societies.
Actually an old guy in my gym had been divorced twice, married three times, still with the third wife for over 20 years I believe. He said that getting divorced in his 20s and 30s didn't really impact his life that much, because he didn't have any appreciable assets to lost/split in the divorce. He said if he got divorced now, he would be in a bad spot. However, he also never had children, but that is something to think about.

Also I know a guy in his 20s going through a divorce right now. It is costing him thousands in attorney fees and all that, but that isn't what I would call divorce raped either.
 
I also think that it is bad advice. First: What make someone even believe that they will be at their top at age 35? It is a bit of an arrogant attitude to assume that one's value is going to peak at 35. And even if it did, it will not be a ’pick and choose your favourite 22 year old lady’-situation as many have pointed out. If I take a look around me most single men age 35 are not attractive, they are rather awkward, physically unfit, lonely with maybe a decent job. What they can realistically attract is a single late 20s woman desperate for marriage and kids, who is willing to trade-off some physical wishes and wit for a more parentally inclined and stable partner.
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
I've come across a bunch of self improvement gurus who urge you to stay single, at least in your early twenties, and then only settle down after 30 or even later twenties.

Assuming you stay out of fornication, is this recommendable? I feel it will be harder to meet and court younger women as you get older.
I'm just one opinion but anything after 18 is kind of wasting time. Get it done early so you have more sex, more companionship, earlier family. While I got married at 53 that wasn't my plan. I don't see how many men or woman are going to escape their teen years without fornication. The Bible says to avoid fornication get married. That tells me the temptation is simply too great.

I remember hearing Pastor John MacArthur being asked the question how young is too young to get married. He paused to think and said "I don't know...13?" I vote for as early as possible.

I think that by the time college is over, a guy's chances drop tremendously.

Of course, good parenting being modeled is important to getting married "young". Marriage isn't war, it's supposed to be normal.
 
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