Self help gurus urging men to stay single in their twenties

droughtmeat

Woodpecker
I totally agree with Scorpions post. However, I think the issue is that most (young) men lack the ability to recognize that high quality woman. Men in their 20s especially will fall in love and then attribute very special value to their girlfriend, although there might be some glaring red flags that a more experienced man would see.

Unfortunately, the family isnt always helpful when it comes to judging which girl is actually that high value woman. Family members will often just be happy to see their boy with a girl and get excited by the idea of him getting married and having children. Friends, who are usually from the same age group, will lack the ability and experience to voice any useful opinion.

There will usually be that one friend or that one uncle in his late 40s / early 50s, who will be more critical. Both of them, however, are single or are considered "womanizers", guys who focus too much on their careers and travelling etc. Their opinions wont be respected, because they are single, divorced, dont have kids etc.

I think most guys in their 20s, who still havent found a quality woman in their 30s, dont squander opportunities, they lack them. Usually, the average guy will have a romanticised idea of love. Thus, he will happily enter a relationship. On the other hand, guys who actually date many women, do cold approaches in different venues etc. actually have opportunities and find quality women that will submit (Im pretty sure this happened to every "PUA" at some point), but then sleeping with as many women as possible and being as indifferent towards them as possible becomes an obsession and a harmful vice.

I personally have missed about two opportunities. One was with a girl that lived in my city for 6 months. Our chemistry was excellent and I felt extremely comfortable around her. Knowing that it was going to turn into a long distance relationship, I opted out. With the second I think I lacked self-esteem to accept that she actually genuinely liked me. I kind of felt like she was "too good to be true".
 

AntoniusofEfa

Kingfisher
Actually an old guy in my gym had been divorced twice, married three times, still with the third wife for over 20 years I believe. He said that getting divorced in his 20s and 30s didn't really impact his life that much, because he didn't have any appreciable assets to lost/split in the divorce. He said if he got divorced now, he would be in a bad spot. However, he also never had children, but that is something to think about.

Also I know a guy in his 20s going through a divorce right now. It is costing him thousands in attorney fees and all that, but that isn't what I would call divorce raped either.
Do not underestimate the power of compounding interest.


The only person whom you should seek guidance from is God. Mysticism and New Age sources are spiritually devoid as Fr. Seraphim Rose clearly pointed out in Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future.

Some men see how compromised is their Church, and leave. What men with his life together, wants to be paired off with a single mother born again Christian? The Church, by and large (except for the Orthodox church), is working with globohomo and feminists. Rainbows do not belong on a Church.
 

JJ01

Chicken
I've come across a bunch of self improvement gurus who urge you to stay single, at least in your early twenties, and then only settle down after 30 or even later twenties.

Assuming you stay out of fornication, is this recommendable? I feel it will be harder to meet and court younger women as you get older.
I honestly wouldn't know. All I know is that I need to be in a good financial situation in order to afford marriage. Whether that happens in my 20s or my 30s or later does not matter as much.
 

Toggle

Chicken
Do you have experience with this, or know others who have done this? If so, how did it work out?

I don't have personal experience with this, but i know a guy that was in his late twenties. She was mid twenties when they met and is very attractive, while he honestly is below average in looks and average in savings for his age. They are married and have one child now a few years later and things seem to be going good.

Obviously there will be a language barrier at first but many speak somewhat decent english.
 

AntoniusofEfa

Kingfisher
I don't have personal experience with this, but i know a guy that was in his late twenties. She was mid twenties when they met and is very attractive, while he honestly is below average in looks and average in savings for his age. They are married and have one child now a few years later and things seem to be going good.

Obviously there will be a language barrier at first but many speak somewhat decent english.
Savings at the end of your 20s is possible, but it is hard to pull it off without the parents bankrolling your education.
 

Chi-Rho

Pigeon
I've come across a bunch of self improvement gurus who urge you to stay single, at least in your early twenties, and then only settle down after 30 or even later twenties.

Assuming you stay out of fornication, is this recommendable? I feel it will be harder to meet and court younger women as you get older.
Everyone's situation is a little different. But if you have a solid relationship then I say get married sooner rather than later. The dating 'scence' or whatever you wanna call it is not good right now, not at all. In the past I might've said wait until you're finacially stable - which I still stand by - but generally speaking in this current world climate we live in, if it feels right and makes sense I wouldn't hesitate. Things are only going down hill from here. And for the record, self-help 'gurus' are con-artists and sophists, don't waste your time on them.
 
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Chi-Rho

Pigeon
@jarlo Your quesiton, "Do you have experience with this, or know others who have done this? If so, how did it work out?" - In regards to the post "If you don't find a women to marry in the west in your 20's, why not find a women in a traditional poor christian country like Georgia?" - I don't have experience with this, but I was somewhat seriously considering it at one point.

The country doesn't have to be 'poor' - The short answer is I wouldn't do this ok, but the long answer is it's complicated. Do you have the same ethnicity? Multicultural families are not 'bad' per say, but not ideal, it can become an unnessecarry psychological buden on the kid(s), though I suspect this stems mostly from potential religious differences in ehtnic groups more than the actual ethnicity itself. My point is you want to stick with the same nationality and cultural upbringing generally, which means you should look within your 'tribe' so to speak. Although again it's dependant on many things. That should go without saying, but U.S. is so topsy turvey right now few people even know who they are. It's like we're re-learning how to walk. The U.S. is pretty dysfunctional. Our Southern neighbors in MX know (generally speaking) exactly who they are and I fully expect them to at some point be the backbone of the U.S. If your country has no ethnic heritage and pride then who are you? You're no longer really a unified country. I can easily see MX coming in and restructing the entire U.S. at some point. They want it more than us, they'll probably have it.

I don't believe you should dictate who people are attracted too, it's mostly a personal decision. That doesn't mean 'anything goes', but in regards to being attracted to other ethnicities. If they're from the same nation it's normally all good (dependant on specific state backgrounds, political affliations, etc.), normally if religion and political affliations match you're 'fine', it's once you start jumping ship and thinking you're going to marry someone overseas that you're kind of off in fantasy land mostly. To marry abroad is mostly a fantasy and not reality. While not impossible or whatever again the barrier doesn't seem worth it.

If you're attracted to some other culture I don't think there's anything wrong with that per say, but it obviously can create more problems than it solves; do you know the language, the customs, etc.? If you don't have family roots or ties then what are you doing there? Multiculturalism has run rampant and while I believe if you have the same religion (Catholic for example) then I do firmly believe you can make it work if you really wanted too, but if you don't have the same religion then the barrier for entry is in my opinion way too high.

With that being said you gotta ask yourself if the pro's outweigh the con's. I'm in the U.S. and I have to tell you right now the climate is bizarre and very strange for 'dating' or meeting people in general. It should go without saying but when traveling overseas (at anytime, not just currently) that's a huge thing to do if you think you're going to uproot your entire life just to find a 'poor foreign girl'. At the end of the day I can't recomeend it. I was very interested in doing something similar at one point and after giving it some major consideration realized I was being blind, it just doesn't make sense. God has put you in a certain place and time for a reason, you have to work through the location and place you've been put in and make the best of what God has given you. Short answer, don't waste your time, place your focus on where you are now and how to manage that to the best of your ability.
 
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tomzestatlu

Kingfisher
Finding a girl from poor country sounds to me like buying cheaper real estate outside of the city, because you can´t afford the one in the city centre.
I never had understanding for going to SEA and picking up some random girl, who can barely speak English. If you are seeking for natural deep connection, this sounds like exact opposite. Older wealthy guy marrying young poor girl with totally different cultural and race background.
Not being said I have anything against men, who decide for this and I believe, it can make them much happier than meeting toxic women in west, but I think we can´t speak about marriage as it should be. It´s more like arranged mariages in the middle east, just without mediator. It´s favorable for both sides, man get´s fertile girl, who wants to have kids, and girl gets opportunity for better life and money. But I can imagine there´s still deep connection lacking.
I know there are older guys here, who have done this, so probably they know better. This is just my assumption. Maybe this ideas is just too distant to me, because I am not from multicultural country like USA and I am not used to people from other cultures.

I actually recently started to enjoy seeing girls from abroad. I live in small ethnically homogenous country and since a lot of foreigners came to study and work in tech here, for me it´s good opportunity to improve my English and learn something new about different countries (especially when we can´t travel now). But still, I can´t imagine settling with girl from totally different background.
The only exception is for Slavic countries. I myself consider as Slavic and girl, that physically attracts me the most, is typical Slav looks. There are few countries around, that have similar cultural background and there it could work.
On the other hand, I have got friend from Russia and we have discussed differences when it comes to dating a lot. Even though Russia is Slavic country too, there are quite differences. There´s lack of quality men in Russia (those who are healthy, financially doing good and don´t drink) and for girls it´s quest to get such man. So once they meet such man, they try to be the best acquitances. My friend told me about her friend, who married guy from wealthy family and she told her some advice to get such man. It´s about complimenting him all the time and doing everything so that she looks like ideal partner.
This all sounds great, but for me, it sounds too fake. Maybe I am just a young fool, but I want to make my future relationship based on physical atraction (we speak about genes) and deep connection (I think I couldn´t have deep connection with girl unsuitable for starting a family). These 2 atributes are important for me and I can´t imagine being in something serious with girl, who doesn´t check those.
And I think the most of people are dating without those two atributes being checked. Just because they don´t want to be alone, don´t have better options or they want to start a family. That´s where marriages fall apart, not being genetically suited for each other or lack of deep connection.
Maybe as I grow older, I will be okay just with girl being suitable for having a kids with, but I still have few years to find out.
 

tomzestatlu

Kingfisher
And there´s one thing I want to add, based on my experiences. I don´t want to discuss casual sex, since it´s forbidden on this forum, but I will use it as an argument for this topic.
To my friends, I always used to say - if you want to have the highest chance to get laid, date foreign girls (to be honest, going out with foreign girl from Tinder used to be almost instant ONS for me). I live in faithless country, where the most of the people are atheists and there are incredibly low moral standarts. And I came to conclusion, that environment is what make girls bad, not their background. Girls living in traditional societies are not that spoiled, because society punish them for their bad behaviour. And once they get into environment, where there´s no punishment for whatever they do, they lose their inhibitions.
I have met girls even from much more traditional countries, from very religiously strict backgrounds and once they got into liberal envionment like this, they became different persons. Back their in their home countries somewhere in xxx-stan, their families (and especially their alpha male fathers) think, that they are still virgins. But here, you can do whatever you want to them, as long as their daddy won´t find out.

Why there are so many onlyfans girls now? Because society don´t punish them and label them as a prostitutes, even though they are.
It has been stressed out in this thread for many times - girls just FOLLOW. And they also follow what their environment demands. Generally, it´s not woman´s moral, but society moral, what leads them.
You have to be extremely strong authority to make girl follow you and (or) God without slipping to society low standarts. Or you can start a family in muslim country, where bad behaviour is still punished.
 
Finding a girl from poor country sounds to me like buying cheaper real estate outside of the city, because you can´t afford the one in the city centre.
I never had understanding for going to SEA and picking up some random girl, who can barely speak English. If you are seeking for natural deep connection, this sounds like exact opposite. Older wealthy guy marrying young poor girl with totally different cultural and race background.
Not being said I have anything against men, who decide for this and I believe, it can make them much happier than meeting toxic women in west, but I think we can´t speak about marriage as it should be. It´s more like arranged mariages in the middle east, just without mediator. It´s favorable for both sides, man get´s fertile girl, who wants to have kids, and girl gets opportunity for better life and money. But I can imagine there´s still deep connection lacking.
I know there are older guys here, who have done this, so probably they know better. This is just my assumption. Maybe this ideas is just too distant to me, because I am not from multicultural country like USA and I am not used to people from other cultures.

I actually recently started to enjoy seeing girls from abroad. I live in small ethnically homogenous country and since a lot of foreigners came to study and work in tech here, for me it´s good opportunity to improve my English and learn something new about different countries (especially when we can´t travel now). But still, I can´t imagine settling with girl from totally different background.
The only exception is for Slavic countries. I myself consider as Slavic and girl, that physically attracts me the most, is typical Slav looks. There are few countries around, that have similar cultural background and there it could work.
On the other hand, I have got friend from Russia and we have discussed differences when it comes to dating a lot. Even though Russia is Slavic country too, there are quite differences. There´s lack of quality men in Russia (those who are healthy, financially doing good and don´t drink) and for girls it´s quest to get such man. So once they meet such man, they try to be the best acquitances. My friend told me about her friend, who married guy from wealthy family and she told her some advice to get such man. It´s about complimenting him all the time and doing everything so that she looks like ideal partner.
This all sounds great, but for me, it sounds too fake. Maybe I am just a young fool, but I want to make my future relationship based on physical atraction (we speak about genes) and deep connection (I think I couldn´t have deep connection with girl unsuitable for starting a family). These 2 atributes are important for me and I can´t imagine being in something serious with girl, who doesn´t check those.
And I think the most of people are dating without those two atributes being checked. Just because they don´t want to be alone, don´t have better options or they want to start a family. That´s where marriages fall apart, not being genetically suited for each other or lack of deep connection.
Maybe as I grow older, I will be okay just with girl being suitable for having a kids with, but I still have few years to find out.
I did the dating in the west. Had several takers, but not anyone I wanted to commit to. Then I went to Asia and tried dating. Instantly I had literally hundreds women age 20-30 who wanted to date me. I screened them really well, but quickly identified one that had a lot of potential. She was looking for a long term relationship, seemed to be a genuine good person, academic background, good English level etc. She is far from poor, her family has 4 apartments, they have travelled to several other countries etc, but very traditional values. I think she has been with exactly one man before before me. She choose to date westerner because the local men are worse in every way. Low income, less respect for women, bad physical shape, less confident etc. She is super happy with me.

There are cultural difference, but age cultural differences are larger anyway. I have more in common with her than most western women her age. We have been inseparable since, zero drama from her or from me, we can have serious discussion about our future, about the problem with western women etc in total agreement. She is almost as redpilled as I am wrt western women.

The market value for a 5-8/10 western guy increase by minimum +2 points minimum when he switched his profile from US/EU to any major city in Asia. If you have improved your profile, use all the apps/sites, pay for some memberships, write a decent profile that you are looking for long term relationship, ignore all the low value women(tattoos, showing too much skin etc) you will likely match a couple of women who meets all your requirements.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Gold Member
When I was a teenager in a 3rd tier American city, I had several women approach me in that typical, "I like you" type of way.
All of these women had one thing in common, they were devout Christians, no-sex before marriage, type of people.

However, I was not. I wanted to sleep around and enjoy the pleasures of the flesh.
This was my biggest life mistake. These women were chaste and great mothers who went on to find men that appreciated them. Eventually through prayer and self improvement, I found my chaste wife at a later age.

Get married young. Ideally in your late teens and early 20s. It makes taking care of kids WAY easier. Getting married older after experience the pleasures of the flesh is dangerous and leads makes staying faithful harder.
 

kel

Ostrich
In your 20s you should be focusing on being a good man and beocming a better one. That means cultivating a community around you (friends, family, church, etc.), getting your career in order (it's not the purpose of life, but it's important to be able to care for yourself and your loved ones and making plans with that in mind is not the same as crass greed), getting and staying healthy and active, etc.

You should not be focusing on women at this time, you are focusing on being the kind of man a good woman and your community at large would be proud to call hers/theirs. If, during this time, the right woman comes into your life - as you will be intersecting with many - then take that and be thankful that at 24 you've already found what many spend a lifetime never finding. But don't "worry" about settling down until you're into your late 20s and you are accomplished enough - physically, materially, spiritually, socially - and have made honorable masculinity a fundamental, habitual part of who you are that you can take that momentum and make bringing that to a family your new challenge.

Just my idyllic two cents, as someone who did not exactly do that, so take it with the requisite grain of salt.
 
I like how everyone seems to think it's a one-size-fits-all and seems to know what's the best for everyone else.
Fact is that there are pros and cons with settling down in your 20's compared to your 30's and later. Consider them and do what you think suits you the best.

Also stop caring about age and focus on biological age. The better you look after yourself and your body, the more time you have.
I know men in their 40's who have younger bodies and a lower biological age than guys in their 20's. Sure, you might be called a pervert by older fat ladies who hates seeing a man in his 40's settling with a woman in her 20's. But reality is that it would be more perverted of you to want to impregnate an old roast-beef and for your girl to marry some fat feminine millennial hipster slob in her own generation.

This doesn't apply to most people however because they're Westernized, lazy and let themselves go. But as long as you have the body of Apollo you are not playing within the same rules as normies.
 

Cicero12

Sparrow
Iron sharpens iron. I know myself and have a plan. I'm young, and even during the worst year in the 21st century I've had successes in my relationships and have achieved something. I know there are decent women out there who can sense who I am. The issue is to sift through the no's to get through the yes-s. Fuck what the gurus and statistics say, they can be wrong too. This doesn't mean I'm trying to be unrealistic. I understand the gripes men have, but we have gone through worse. In dark times, we can find success and prosperity through creativity and the desire to make our world a better place.

Guys, women are not angels. They're also not all ruthless sluts who hate you and want to destroy you. They are people, and if you know anything about people you can understand why women act in such a way in 2021. There's nothing you or any person alone can do except for except adapt. If your calling is to go to another country, then so be it!
 
Fixed it for you. Plenty of much older guys have been doing this for decades in places around the world where women still value their fertility. It isn't for everyone, but there are definitely possibilities.

I agree. This following post is a "moderate" pill. It's important to be realistic but at the same time not everybody married at a young age as well as stayed in that marriage for 20+ years. Not everybody gets it when they're in their early 20s and consequently divorce happens and it's even worse when kids are involved. There's still hope especially if you keep on improving yourself. I'm in the camp of I want you at your best and you can have me at my best.

I know it's hearsay but I know 2 people off the top of my head that had significant age gaps. Think 50M and 18F, 40M and 25F. One of them told me whenever he visits the states he gets gawked at. Like someone earlier brought up there's Cerno and another one is Mikael Syding. I've also visited countries where older men had young girlfriends. As long as you understand the modern social shaming behind this and ignore it you should be fine. Understand the aging process and take good care of your health and skin. I'm not a young man anymore but I can assure everyone here that when I'm in my mid 40s I'll still look like I'm in my mid 20s. In the west maybe the girls would be embarrassed to be seen with their "dad" but maybe that isn't as much of an obstacle overseas (I honestly don't know).

Money and "game" does matter. With money you will have to own at least 1 business and I'm glad I started years ago and learned from my mistakes. By game I mean knowing how women operate and the games they play. Also age doesn't guarantee wisdom. I know several 60+ men that still are clueless with women. It's not hard, I think 90% of women can be explained by owning a cat as well as knowing that high school never ends. The cheerleader goes with the football player, while the nerd goes with the fat girl.

Technology is the wildcard here. I can accept technology is breaking down the social order and familial structure. But at the same time sex robots are coming and I think that will subsequently take a lot of men out of the dating pool. Who will come in and take advantage of the situation?

There's also plenty of good women out there. Some of the threads in this forum are black pilled. Don't let the bad ones spoil your experience :)
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
I agree. This following post is a "moderate" pill. It's important to be realistic but at the same time not everybody married at a young age as well as stayed in that marriage for 20+ years. Not everybody gets it when they're in their early 20s and consequently divorce happens and it's even worse when kids are involved. There's still hope especially if you keep on improving yourself. I'm in the camp of I want you at your best and you can have me at my best.

I know it's hearsay but I know 2 people off the top of my head that had significant age gaps. Think 50M and 18F, 40M and 25F. One of them told me whenever he visits the states he gets gawked at. Like someone earlier brought up there's Cerno and another one is Mikael Syding. I've also visited countries where older men had young girlfriends. As long as you understand the modern social shaming behind this and ignore it you should be fine. Understand the aging process and take good care of your health and skin. I'm not a young man anymore but I can assure everyone here that when I'm in my mid 40s I'll still look like I'm in my mid 20s. In the west maybe the girls would be embarrassed to be seen with their "dad" but maybe that isn't as much of an obstacle overseas (I honestly don't know).

Money and "game" does matter. With money you will have to own at least 1 business and I'm glad I started years ago and learned from my mistakes. By game I mean knowing how women operate and the games they play. Also age doesn't guarantee wisdom. I know several 60+ men that still are clueless with women. It's not hard, I think 90% of women can be explained by owning a cat as well as knowing that high school never ends. The cheerleader goes with the football player, while the nerd goes with the fat girl.

Technology is the wildcard here. I can accept technology is breaking down the social order and familial structure. But at the same time sex robots are coming and I think that will subsequently take a lot of men out of the dating pool. Who will come in and take advantage of the situation?

There's also plenty of good women out there. Some of the threads in this forum are black pilled. Don't let the bad ones spoil your experience :)

Ahh the sex robots, dolls, virtual mates. Apparently it is a thing.
 
I know of one, Coach Greg Adams, who never calls himself a guru. He advocates the free agent lifestyle:


  • No Marriage
  • No cohabitation
  • Self-employment

The stories in his call in shows are scary, and yet, nothing out of the ordinary in this day and age.

There is an upside: there was never a better time to be a man. Women are now taken care of by the government, and all of this is by their choice. For us men it means that we are off the hook! Whenever a woman asks for something, you can refer her to the nearest government program for xyx. Gone are the days of having to (directly) provide. Now one just pays his taxes. And whenever the government needs more money to cater to whiny socialists, they can just print it off! What a wonderful world.

Guys: Take care of yourself, both mentally and physically. Stack gold, silver, real estate, guns, bullets and other non-depreciating assets. All of this is a much better investment than some used up psleeve.


I had a very profound vision from God in December of 2019, He explicitly told me, "Soon the stock market is going to crash and 2020 will be a time of sorrow, calamity, and catastrophe. Before the end of February 2020 you should have sold all of your stocks, have nothing in the stock market, and instead buy silver, ammunition, and long-term food storage. Begin selling your stocks now and be finished before February ends." I finished getting out the last week of January and the first week of February.

I sold all of my stocks when they were around all-time highs, bought a significant amount of silver bullion, I bought tens of thousands of dollars worth of ammunition [when it was cheap and available] and expanded my food storage.
 
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