Signs of escalation into a World War

Turkey does not consider the possibility of accepting Finland and Sweden into NATO as a positive development - Erdogan .

"Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said Friday his country doesn’t like the idea of Finland and Sweden joining NATO.
Finland’s leaders announced Thursday their intention to pursue membership in the transatlantic military alliance “without delay.” Sweden is expected to follow suit in the coming days. But those moves, which come in response to Russia’s brutal war in Ukraine, have sparked criticism in Turkey, which has been a NATO member since 1952.
“Right now, when it comes to Sweden and Finland, we follow the developments but not with a positive opinion,” Erdoğan told reporters in Istanbul, adding that he wouldn’t want to repeat what he claims were “mistakes,” including the admission of Greece into NATO.
Without evidence, Erdoğan also accused the Nordic countries of harboring terrorists - a charge he often lobs at domestic opponents and Western countries during disagreements."

 

SlickyBoy

Hummingbird
The truth is we have little to no idea what goes on in clandestine meetings under cover of darkness at the highest levels. The tiny bits of information that we can glean from events like WWII shows that it's far more incestuous, complex and interconnected than we think, that money is like air (it gets into everything), and the people at the top, no matter where they are from, have far more in common with each other than they do with any of us.
To follow up on my earlier post, an acquaintance who works in a place where they'd know about this told me that this was not an intentional news break or strategic leak with higher authorization, it was unauthorized. They still don't know who did it and if the person is near retirement they probably will never find out who did it.


As for Turkey I seriously doubt Erdogan is worried about anybody retaking Constantinople. That's the most far out theory I've heard in this discussion. People should remember Putin didn't just wake up one day and decide to rebuild the USSR, his incursion into Ukraine was foretold by years of attempted negotiations, warnings and one big red line, which our (((leaders))) crossed with complete disregard for his understandable concerns. At this point Erdogan only wants to let Putin know that he's not buying all of the bluster about Ukraine either, even if he can't directly support him.
 
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budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
Via Vox Day, "Why Washington Wants WWIII"
It’s not just the neocons and their Russian revenge fetish. It’s also because the leading globalists in the USA, along with their funding masters in Big Pharma, have been caught red-handed doing some extremely bad things in Ukraine.

The provisional results of evidence being collected about the work of U.S. bioweapons in Ukraine are simply astonishing. These are the main takeaways.

1. U.S. bioweapon ideologues comprise the leadership of the Democratic Party. By linking with non-governmental biotechnology organizations, using the investment funds of the Clintons, Rockefellers, Soros and Biden, they profited from additional campaign financing – all duly concealed. In parallel, they assembled the legislative basis for financing the bioweapons program directly from the federal budget.
2. COVID-19 vaccine manufacturers Pfizer and Moderna, as well as Merck and Gilead – of Donald “known unknowns” fame, and affiliated with the Pentagon – were directly involved.
3. U.S. specialists tested new drugs in the Ukraine biolabs in circumvention of international safety standards. According to Kirillov, acting this way “Western companies seriously reduce the costs of research programs and gain significant competitive advantages.”
4. According to Kirillov, “along with U.S. pharmaceutical companies and Pentagon contractors, Ukrainian government agencies are involved in military biotechnology activities, whose main tasks are to conceal illegal activities, conduct field and clinical trials and provide the necessary biomaterial.”
5. The Pentagon, Kirillov pointed out, expanded its research potential not only in terms of producing biological weapons, but also gathering information on antibiotic resistance and the presence of antibodies to certain diseases among the population in specific regions. The testing ground in Ukraine was practically outside the control of the so-called “international community”.

These findings, amply documented, suggest a vast “legitimized” bioweapon racket reaching the highest levels of the American body politic. There’s no doubt the Russians plan to thoroughly unmask it for the benefit of world public opinion, starting with a War Crimes Tribunal to be set up this summer, most probably in Donetsk.

An ongoing U.S. bioweapons program in Ukraine was one of the Top Three reasons that led to the launch of Operation Z, side by side with preventing an imminent NATO-managed blitzkrieg against Donbass and Kiev’s desire to re-start a nuclear weapons program.


The Russians cannot back down, not with NATO now threatening to expand to the Russo-Finnish border. The Europeans could back down, but they are occupied satrapies with political classes controlled by Washington, and their popular attempts to revolt against that control have been suppressed. And the USA will not back down as long as the guilty parties possess the levers of power in Washington.

WWIII is not inevitable, but it is increasingly likely now due to the conflicting interests of those who possess the ability to start it. The X factor is China; only China has the power to break Washington’s hold over Europe now. (Theoretically, the American people could as well, but they won’t, because they are too fat, stupid, and oblivious to recognize either their own national interests or the danger to themselves.) The problem here is that it is in China’s interest to wait and let the Imperial USA commit itself to war with Russia before opening a second global front.

And the Russians clearly know this. They don’t want to fight WWIII, but they absolutely will if that’s the price of protecting their nation, as demonstrated by the recent warning by Defence committee deputy chair Aleksey Zhuravlyov.

He claimed Finland is being provoked into joining NATO by the US and Britain.

‘The Finns have nothing to share with us. They receive more than 90 per cent gas, timber and much more from us. ‘Who needs fighting first of all? The Finns? They are not afraid that Russia is attacking them. ‘Of course, sooner or later the Americans will force them to do so. Just as they forced Ukraine to do it, they are trying to force Poland and Romania. And, as practice shows, they succeed.

‘It is impossible to say that Finland will join NATO and behave towards us as before – this will not happen. The Americans will incite them to provocations.

‘We endure for a long time. But this cannot go on forever.’

Reflecting a view among hardliners around Vladimir Putin he said: ‘The United States will do everything possible to make World War III happen. Just not on their territory. They will try not to lead to nuclear strikes, but they will try to draw the whole of Europe into a conflict with Russia, inflame the situation in Asia, [and] set fire to as many countries as possible.’


At some point, Russia is going to stop issuing warnings and will actually take action against the responsible parties instead of the proxies. Unfortunately, the mainstream media is successfully characterizing these very serious warnings as “wild threats” that are being hurled about for no reason at all, so the US and European publics consider them to be on the cartoonish level of Baghdad Bob babbling about “the mother of all battles”.
 

durangotang

Ostrich
Prior to the start of the war, Russia wanted guarantees that Ukraine would not join NATO, a resolution to the war in Donbass, recognition of Crimea, American nuclear missiles to be withdrawn from Europe, and for the removal of American missile installations from Romania and Poland. Putin specifically stated that American hypersonic missiles, if stationed in Ukraine, could reach Moscow in 4 minutes, and that it would be like living with a knife to their throat. If Russia takes the south and east of Ukraine, integrating Novorussia into Russia, and demilitarizes the north and west, Russia's borders with Ukraine drop from 1300 miles to a mere 300 miles stretching from Kiev to Transnistria. It also allows them to securely control the entire northern coast of the Black Sea. That could be the end of it.

If Finland were to join NATO, however, a new Ukrainian threat emerges spanning 800 miles on the north west of Russia's borders. It would be even worse than Ukraine in NATO from a hypersonic missile perspective. As it stands, the Baltics have been declared a nuclear free zone. By adding Sweden and Finland into NATO, the threat from the north becomes far more severe to Russia. Russia only has two major cities, St. Petersburg and Moscow. St. Petersburg is only 110 miles from the Finnish border. American hypersonic missile installations in Finland could reach Russia's second largest city in less than a minute, and the equivalent time as from from Ukraine to Moscow, in just 4 minutes. Additionally, Russia has strategic military installations to protect them in the Arctic in the Kola Peninsula, near Murmansk. The Kola Peninsula is less than 150 miles from the Finnish border, and is the centerpiece of Russia's military establishment in the west Arctic. This is simply an intolerable situation for Russia to allow American military installations so close to their vital cities and Arctic defenses, after all American nuclear ICBMs targeting Moscow would come from the Arctic.

Now that Finland and Sweden have applied for membership into NATO, it will take several months to complete. Unless Russia can accomplish a diplomatic victory, where a European country firmly vetoes the ascension of Finland, and doesn't merely use it as a bargaining tool as Turkey and Croatia appear to be doing, then it's possible that Russia will strike before the vote takes place. If Russia is going to war with Finland, better that it acts before they officially become a part of NATO. In anticipation of this, the warmongering Brits just this week signed a security pact with both Finland and Sweden, just like they did with Poland before WWII. London wants a broader war with Russia, and to drag America in if possible. If this line of thinking is in fact correct, and Russia cannot allow Finland into NATO, then Russia must soon enter into a wartime economy and full mobilization of it's manpower. The alternative would be hundreds of nuclear tipped hypersonic missiles targeting Finland and the entire region, with eventual reciprocal American missiles, all on a hairpin trigger with less than 60 seconds to clarify a possible strike. Is this a tolerable security situation in which to live for the Russians, or for Europeans for that matter? Would D.C. tolerate living under these conditions? Not for a second.

Or Russia could wait for Finland to join NATO, and strike if an when American military assets are moved into the region, although this risks triggering article 5 and starting a direct confrontation with NATO sometime down the line. If they take this approach, in the meantime, they could try to fracture Europe and NATO economically and politically, though at the risk of a direct conflict with NATO at a later time if America decides to move assets into Finland. They might take this approach, because the UK's security pact signed with Sweden and Finland this week risks drawing in America anyway. They also have Europe by the short hairs economically through their control of commodities. I think that this is the more sensible approach. It's impossible to predict because we simply don't know what Russia's level of military preparedness is now, including stocks of hypersonic missiles and other military equipment. We'll have an indication soon if Putin drops the special military operation, declares war on Ukraine, and Russia begins mobilization. Full mobilization would mean a dramatic escalation of the intensity of the war in Ukraine, with not hundreds of thousands, but millions of Russian soldiers fighting in both Ukraine, and possibly Finland and Sweden if Russia were to head off their ascension to NATO.

This escalation could have been prevented if Finland and Sweden's feminist leaders did not abandon neutrality, and attempt to join NATO. Are Finland and Sweden about to become the first national examples of get woke, go broke?

countries-europe-map-2018.jpg
 

Pointy Elbows

Kingfisher
Orthodox
^Excellent summary, durangotang. Sweden and Finland joining NATO is another massive front on the diplomatic war, if not hot war.

Reading between the lines, I now suspect US Sec Def Austin's recent call to Russian Def Minister Shoigu was more than a "call for cease fire." I get the feeling the US said: Cease Fire in Ukraine or we'll bring Sweden and Finland into NATO. It just isn't like America to humbly seek a cease fire. There must be an implied threat to it. Russia, now sick of western diplomacy (threats), obviously said no.

The West is recklessly raising the pot in this. I'm shocked the Swedes, and especially the Finns, are going along with this. What's in it for them? Sure, they'll get some toys and fedbucks, but is the risk really worth the reward? Almost all of Europe have become servile to US and England, it appears.

Edit - This change adds 1271 KM (791 miles) to the contiguous NATO/Russia border. Another strike against the idea of buffer zones and spheres of influence.
 
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Bismark_Geist1571

Woodpecker
Catholic
^Excellent summary, durangotang. Sweden and Finland joining NATO is another massive front on the diplomatic war, if not hot war.

Reading between the lines, I now suspect US Sec Def Austin's recent call to Russian Def Minister Shoigu was more than a "call for cease fire." I get the feeling the US said: Cease Fire in Ukraine or we'll bring Sweden and Finland into NATO. It just isn't like America to humbly seek a cease fire. There must be an implied threat to it. Russia, now sick of western diplomacy (threats), obviously said no.

The West is recklessly raising the pot in this. I'm shocked the Swedes, and especially the Finns, are going along with this. What's in it for them? Sure, they'll get some toys and fedbucks, but is the risk really worth the reward? Almost all of Europe have become servile to US and England, it appears.

If the most recent reports are true, there might be a lot of gains for them. After all IF Russia is defeated and partitioned in at least a dozen of failed republics, they might even get some kickbacks for their companies when they "invest in reconstruction" of whatever failed republics emerge out of that mess. And let's not forget that all the leaders of Sweden and Finland are globalists (or beholden to them), so it's not surprise, NATO entry is just a formality. But in the end the great loser will be western common man as well as third worlders in that particular scenario (skyrocketting prices of everything across the board, scarcity in many nations, civil unrest, food riots in some countries since production of all the commodities Russia is an exporter of would not resume in a long tome, at least for the west).

Russia's apparent (?) weakness and far less than stellar performance against Ukraine is fanning the flames of war. Strength (or at least appearance of it) prevents war, weakness (or appearance of weakness) invites aggression and war. The big question is "Are the Russian actions deliberate?"
 
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Mountaineer

 
Banned
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
He may be thinking he doesn't want to be forced into a NATO war that the US and UK provoke with Russia over Finland and Sweden. Finland and Sweden are nothing to him, but if Russia is forced into a war, it should reasonably try to retake Constantinople.
And thus the prophecy of St. Paisios will be fulfilled. The old monk was not hallucinating, it wasn't just his Greek nationalistic tendency that made him envision such a scenario.
 

durangotang

Ostrich
Luckily there are many experienced in rape and grenade attacks if Sweden joins NATO...somehow I don't think they will join the conflict.
Russia wouldn't even need to invade Sweden, like it would Finland. One buffer state is enough. It just needs to neutralize the threat from Sweden. Realistically, Russia only needs Gotland island from Sweden, which acts like a giant stationary aircraft carrier in the Baltic Sea. No country in an active conflict can join NATO, so Russia could in theory invade Finland and seize Gotland island, disqualifying both from entering NATO. While the invasion of Finland is underway, Russia could utilize Kadyrov to propagandize the Muslims in Sweden to side with Russia, and to fight the degenerate Swedes. Then simply take down Swedish infrastructure with targeted missiles strikes before winter sets in. Blow the bridge to Denmark, destroy the highways from Norway, target Swedish military installations, radar, airports, sea ports, oil depots, refineries, electric substations, railway, and hydroelectric power plants, all with hypersonic missiles.

Then let the migrants finish the job.

Grim, I know :(

Edit: For the record I am not saying I want this to happen, just that Sweden has invited it's own foreign army in already, and there's no need for the Russians to occupy Sweden.
 
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durangotang

Ostrich
Seizing Gotland island would allow Russia an S-400 platform in the Baltic sea that would greatly reduce NATO's air superiority. It would also give Russia a land based launch platform for Iskander missiles which have a 500km range. To see what would be in strike distance of Iskander missiles, see the map below. As you can see, if Russia manages to take Gotland, then it basically allows them to militarily dominate the Baltic and Scandinavian regions (and northern Poland as well).

Gotland.png




 
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RedLagoon

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
Most of the uptight Swedish Elite are at Gotland, I doubt they will like that.

This scenario was depicted by Andrei Tarkovsky however:

"Just when dinner is almost ready, the rumbling noise of low-flying jet fighters interrupts them, and soon after, as Alexander enters, a news program announces the beginning of what appears to be all-out war, and possibly nuclear holocaust. His wife has a complete nervous breakdown."


"The Sacrifice was actually filmed at Närsholmen on the nearby island of Gotland; the Swedish military denied Tarkovsky access to Fårö."

Offret (the Sacrifice)

 
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Erdoğan blocks /for now/ Nato accession talks with Sweden and Finland

"Turkey has blocked Nato’s initial decision to process requests by Finland and Sweden to join the military alliance, throwing into doubt the hopes for a quick accession of the two Nordic countries.
Nato ambassadors met on Wednesday with the aim of opening accession talks on the same day that Finland and Sweden submitted their applications but Ankara’s opposition stopped any vote, according to a person with direct knowledge of the matter.
The postponement raises doubt that Nato will be able to approve the first stage of Finland’s and Sweden’s applications within one or two weeks, as secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg indicated. It also sets the stage for several days of intense diplomacy between the US, Turkey, Finland and Sweden over the issue.
All 30 existing members of Nato have to ratify Finland’s and Sweden’s applications but that process only starts once the defence alliance issues an accession protocol and formally invites the two countries to join."

Financial times - https://archive.ph/tWmHl#selection-2033.0-2051.214

Bloomberg - Turkey demands in exchange for approval of Sweden and Finland joining NATO
- Declaration by Sweden and Finland of the Kurdistan Workers' Party and its derivatives as terrorist organizations
- The lifting of the arms embargo
- Re-entry into the F-35 fighter program
- Approval of a new package of purchases of F-16 fighters
- Removal of sanctions for the S-400 air defense system
 

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
Seizing Gotland island would allow Russia an S-400 platform in the Baltic sea that would greatly reduce NATO's air superiority. It would also give Russia a land based launch platform for Iskander missiles which have a 500km range. To see what would be in strike distance of Iskander missiles, see the map below. As you can see, if Russia manages to take Gotland, then it basically allows them to militarily dominate the Baltic and Scandinavian regions (and northern Poland as well).

Gotland.png






Russia already controls the middle of the Baltic with Kaliningrad. They are a land power, I don't think they are capable of seizing Gotland.
 
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