Silver Squeeze?

Louis IX

Pelican
Modern numismatics sounds interesting, and it sounds like you can definitely make some nice investments if you know what you're doing, but like I've said before it's an entirely different market from investing in precious metals themselves and has nothing to do with any silver squeeze. Or lack thereof, as it's looking in this case.

Rather than modern coins, I'd probably go with comic books or old coins if I were trying to get a good side profit going by speculating in collectibles, but that's just a personal preference because I know those markets to some extent.
There is a vivid modern 1oz silver market but the issue is that in general 9 coins out of 10 or new series end up being worthless - as the series do not take off or get abandoned.

For instance the Somalian elephants are great and if you had a roll of the first 2-3 issues then you have trebled your investment....but the issue is that most of the people who had it were investors and when they are more than the collectors( or late collectors who wants to get all coins all the way up to the very first issue to build a year run ) then the market is not balanced and no more investors buy the new coming year ...
 

bucky

Ostrich
There is a vivid modern 1oz silver market but the issue is that in general 9 coins out of 10 or new series end up being worthless - as the series do not take off or get abandoned.

For instance the Somalian elephants are great and if you had a roll of the first 2-3 issues then you have trebled your investment....but the issue is that most of the people who had it were investors and when they are more than the collectors( or late collectors who wants to get all coins all the way up to the very first issue to build a year run ) then the market is not balanced and no more investors buy the new coming year ...
Sounds a lot like comics. That is, if you choose wisely, you can get a book that shoots up in value and makes real money, but most comics go nowhere as far as value. That's what I mean when I tell @MRAll134 that he's right, but also he's not really talking about the same thing everyone else is talking about. We're talking about the value of silver the metal itself and when it will skyrocket. Which is probably never, I'd say at this point.
 

MRAll134

Pelican
Sounds a lot like comics. That is, if you choose wisely, you can get a book that shoots up in value and makes real money, but most comics go nowhere as far as value. That's what I mean when I tell @MRAll134 that he's right, but also he's not really talking about the same thing everyone else is talking about. We're talking about the value of silver the metal itself and when it will skyrocket. Which is probably never, I'd say at this point.

I have been tracking the silver index for 6-8 years and price has not moved from $26-28 (USD). Though, a vid' on YT said that silver goes up 30%/yr. vs. inflation; that is a decent return.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
I have been tracking the silver index for 6-8 years and price has not moved from $26-28 (USD). Though, a vid' on YT said that silver goes up 30%/yr. vs. inflation; that is a decent return.
It's curious that over all this time only BTC and other monetary instruments have gotten the flow while supposed major sentiment against the USD or inflation expectations you would have thought would have skyrocketed precious metals. What's the basis of the "rigged" game against gold and silver? I've never been able to tell from the references, they are always shady. Is it that the paper derivatives market (JP Morgan) is able to suppress the price with sheer volume?
 

MRAll134

Pelican
Is it that the paper derivatives market (JP Morgan) is able to suppress the price with sheer volume?

I am not really a banker. But yes, JP Morgan is one of at least a couple of banks that is manipulating the precious metail marker, for their benefit. Here is an article where JPM was accused of spoofing the market (placing potential orders and then reversing them).

J.P. Morgan settles lawsuit that accused firm of ‘spoofing’ precious metals markets trades
J.P. Morgan Chase has quietly settled a long-running lawsuit that accused the bank of manipulating precious metals markets with “spoofing” trades.

And the bank is set to pay $920 million to resolve government investigations for similar alleged conduct in the precious metals and Treasury futures markets, CNBC has learned.

A penalty of that size would be a record for spoofing, which is the act of placing a buy or sell order with no intention to actually execute the transaction.

The goal of spoofing is to move market prices in a way that financially benefits the trader’s preexisting positions in the market.

Spoofing was banned as part of the Dodd-Frank financial reform law after the 2008 financial crisis. In recent years, regulators and federal prosecutors have cracked down on suspected spoofing, issuing fines or filing criminal charges in a number of cases.

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/29/jp-...-lawsuit-alleging-fraud-in-metals-trades.html

*just remember, this is where JPM was caught. How much else are they up to, where they have not been caught?
 

AntoniusofEfa

Kingfisher
Buying Crypto is just much more comfortable and secure than silver. If I buy Silver, my name goes automatically to a list, and any major purchase will make me a target for the government. With a privacy centred cryptocurrency, they have no way of tracing any transaction.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
It's curious that over all this time only BTC and other monetary instruments have gotten the flow while supposed major sentiment against the USD or inflation expectations you would have thought would have skyrocketed precious metals. What's the basis of the "rigged" game against gold and silver? I've never been able to tell from the references, they are always shady. Is it that the paper derivatives market (JP Morgan) is able to suppress the price with sheer volume?

Yes. More paper silver than actual silver to me is the main issue.

Agree with other comment, lots of manipulation and corruption in the market. Works for me, I just keep picking up bit by bit.
 

Mr Gee

Pigeon
Buying Crypto is just much more comfortable and secure than silver. If I buy Silver, my name goes automatically to a list, and any major purchase will make me a target for the government. With a privacy centred cryptocurrency, they have no way of tracing any transaction.
If I buy crypto from an exchange here in Australia, they share that data with the tax office. I already have a letter scolding me for not declaring liquidating crypto for CGT in the last financial year and threatening repercussions if I do not make it right. I only keep monero now which is illegal to buy now in Australia on my private wallet for the dystopian future ahead, the same reason as I keep silver.
I am happy to hold my bullion, and even buy some more while prices are at the current level and the herd goes crazy on bitcoin and the rest. Nation states have horded bullion for a reason. I think most crypto will be outlawed in a couple years when nations release their own crypto coin (thanks to the technology advances in recent years), and will give their citizens the chance to swap to it before penalising holders of outlaws crypyo eventually.
 

AntoniusofEfa

Kingfisher
Legal or not, crypto would hold its value relative to any fiat currency. It is convenient and allows for an easy exchange of digital services.

Are you sure that you cannot buy crypto in another jurisdiction?
 

Mr Gee

Pigeon
Legal or not, crypto would hold its value relative to any fiat currency. It is convenient and allows for an easy exchange of digital services.

Are you sure that you cannot buy crypto in another jurisdiction?
I meant only Australian Exchanges, sorry I did not make that clear.
I can sign up with Binance or somewhere offshore and get some to transfer to my private wallet but why would I hand over private information to foreign national databases? No thanks. I am interested to find out how international data sharing is going between governments and exchanges. I imagine they are converging on the information sharing.
 

AntoniusofEfa

Kingfisher
I meant only Australian Exchanges, sorry I did not make that clear.
I can sign up with Binance or somewhere offshore and get some to transfer to my private wallet but why would I hand over private information to foreign national databases? No thanks. I am interested to find out how international data sharing is going between governments and exchanges. I imagine they are converging on the information sharing.
Maybe. But if you use Monero (as an example), they have no way of knowing where the money trail goes, and they will not bother looking for it Unless you are a very big fish, the Interpol will not come looking.

I am surprised to see that

Is the squeeze over? The price of silver is going down, against all logic.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Maybe. But if you use Monero (as an example), they have no way of knowing where the money trail goes, and they will not bother looking for it Unless you are a very big fish, the Interpol will not come looking.

I am surprised to see that

Is the squeeze over? The price of silver is going down, against all logic.

I show the spot price up 3.76% on Kitco.

All this crypto talk is tiresome. If you feel safer with a digital currency on a USB then that is fine, but when the lights go out, or a hacker hacks, or the US federal government makes it illegal to hold crypto...all the Johnny Come lately Normies will be out in no time and yes, alot of the long term holders and believers will cash out. I recently heard from a friend, a long term serious cypto investor tell me he is planning to get out this year.

Bitcoin while not technically a "FIAT", it isn't a store of value other than it's scarcity. It is dependent on demand. There is no "Intrinsic Value", Gold and Silver do have intrinsic value in jewelry, industrial uses (silver), and have been accepted currency for 1,000s of years.
 

C-Note

Ostrich
Gold Member
My penny stocks in mining companies, especially silver, have been going up over the last couple of weeks or so and haven't been dipping back down as much (not all of them. Impact Silver, for example, has not gone up). I assume that means they currently have less "volatility." Two weeks probably isn't enough time to tell if it is a general trend or not, but just in case I've started to increase my position in mining stocks. We'll see if it holds up.

By the way, just for general info, most gold, copper, and zinc mining companies also produce at least some silver because it's often found along with those other ores.
 
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Nate_Drake

Sparrow
I show the spot price up 3.76% on Kitco.

All this crypto talk is tiresome. If you feel safer with a digital currency on a USB then that is fine, but when the lights go out, or a hacker hacks, or the US federal government makes it illegal to hold crypto...all the Johnny Come lately Normies will be out in no time and yes, alot of the long term holders and believers will cash out. I recently heard from a friend, a long term serious cypto investor tell me he is planning to get out this year.

Bitcoin while not technically a "FIAT", it isn't a store of value other than it's scarcity. It is dependent on demand. There is no "Intrinsic Value", Gold and Silver do have intrinsic value in jewelry, industrial uses (silver), and have been accepted currency for 1,000s of years.

Disagree. No chance these big institutions are putting billions into crypto only to see it not become the financial infrastructure of the future. Maybe I drank the kool aid but Michael Sailor convinced me that billionaires are really into this stuff. This is the great reset in action and it's impact is huge for countries who have weak currencies enabling the people to have an alternative store of value. There is also a strong relationship here with AI as silicon chips become a scarce resource and more valuable in weight than any other asset.

Agree with you friend though-temporarily Getting out before a big dip and taking profits is smart. Your friend can transfer into tether and buy back in at the discount. If I had to guess I bet your friend gets back in in the next bear market. He probably just thinks the alt coin market is overvalued and overbought and I guess I can't argue with that, but that doesn't mean it won't correct and go back up as the utility of these things increases over time.

If worried about being hacked study up on encryption and that should alleviate some of your concerns.

That being said I'm about to go pick up some silver coins this week. Even if you hate cryptos I highly recommend you watch the market closely and study up on it if you haven't already. Most of these so called coins are actually pieces of digital infrastructure or software projects that don't fit the typical definition of a currency or coin. Last thing you want to be is too late to the party. If you are well informed at least you know what's going on. The guys who have bought in big on the bear markets have made life changing money. I have been following crypto tech for years but got distracted last year with the election, dropped the ball and missed out. Chances of buying back in at early 2020 prices seems almost impossible at this point as many think we have already reached escape velocity for crypto. Not saying there won't be another crash but there's do many long holders out there that this seems unlikely.
 
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Coja Petrus Uscan

Hummingbird
Gold Member
On intrinsic value. It is true that crypto is largely a bubble, but there are a few ways you can look at this.

The intrinsic value of silver is it's economic utilisation + profit. But that is a shifting bar, obviously should be up in the coming decade, because of increased utilisation. The intrinsic value of hoarding physical is safety. The speculative bubble that occasionally appear on silver is speculation and leads to the same as with crypto - losses if you don't sell near the top.

I have posted a lot of criticisms of crypto, though I have always been pro-crypto. Though I am seeing it more positively, hopefully not just due to gains blindness, as I too will be selling the top this year or next. It will crash heavily. But I think it has a few intrinsic properties:

1) True believers. When PMs crash they return to about the price of production. When crypto crashes they hit the floor of true believers. Even if crypto is banned many true believers will persist - that is in forms of currency and services that cannot be controlled.

2) While physical offers anti-confiscation properties, such as being able to hold yourself. It still has it's own theft risks. Crypto is the same. There was a guy in Germany who engaged in some illegal online activity. I think he had $36 million in BTC. The German courts demanded he hand over these ill-gotten gains. he refused and so when he gets out of prison he will probably have $360 million. If he had received millions in silver bars, it would likely have been quite easy to get hold of them. Crypto's anti-theft/confiscation property is more powerful in my opinion

The intrinsic value of the crypto space is generally that it offers doors out of the inflationary, confiscation, censorship net that is being built. PMs are weaker in this regard. Crypto has severed as a far better hedge against inflation - this week, this month, this year, this decade. Though I will admit PMs are a more secure hedge, they have not been better.
 
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