Single women in their 30s/40s are starting to realize they will die alone

muscacav

Robin
Other Christian
Explained very well. This really explains why parents would spend hundreds of thousands in bribe money and/or really push their kids to study 80 hours a week to get their kid into an elite university when in theory the kid could go to a less famous university (assuming he/she is a fairly decent student), work very hard to get good grades, and transfer to the elite university in 2 years. My guess is such transfer students are also seen as second class within the elite universities and they lost valuable networking opportunities because the cliques are often formed in the freshman years.

"They only recruit at the most elite colleges, and they want recruits to be attractive, energetic, articulate, socially smooth, and have had elite personal connections, jobs, and extracurriculars. They don’t that much care about your grades, what you’ve learned, or what you did in your jobs or extracurriculars, as long as they were prestigious."

This helps explain why many highly competent people will do fairly well in organizations (to include politics), but often can't rise to the very top of the pyramid.
There is more to that too. John Taylor Gatto wrote about elite schooling and their focus in different matters and how elite schooling is more like a networking experiment before you can enter in that exclusive club. But that is too far away from the topic, I'll leave some videos about that, from the most succinct to the most detailed





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Keep in mind that his writing is 30 years old. He observed that elite schools focused a lot in rethoric and dialects, both in writing and speaking. I won't post more about this because it is off topic but you can send me a private message.

Quoted from Classicallearner
Gatto studied the curriculums of the most prestigious private schools in America. He found 14 lessons taught at these elite institutions that are not taught to the general public.

1- Students form a unique theory on human nature. What makes people tick. The theory is derived from history, philosophy, theology, literature, and law.
2- Strong experience with active literacies: Reading, writing, and public speaking.
3- Insight into major institutional forms: courts, corporations, military, and education.
4- Repeated exercises in good manors and politeness.
5- Independent work – students drive 80% of workload.
6- Physical sports are a necessity.
7- Students form a “theory of access” on how to get access to any person or institution.
8- Responsibility is an essential part of the curriculum. Always take responsibility when offered and always deliver more than is asked.
9- Arrival at a personal code of standards. Students create their own standards of production and standards in morality.
10- Be at ease with the arts. Art, music, sculpting, architecture, painting, dance, design, literature, and drama.
11 The power of accurate observation and recording.
12- The ability to deal with challenges of all sorts. Can a shy student routinely engage in public speaking?
13- A habit of caution in reasoning to conclusions.
14- The constant development in the testing of judgment. Make long range predictions and the track how accurate they are.
 

scarfaceantonio

Robin
Other Christian
I highly doubt that these kind of "women" will feel serios regret, when realizing they will die alone , without kids. Maybe for some time, yes.... but then they will "jump on the next boat" and follow and simply accept the next emotion or mood that will come along. For a man with a sane mind this is truly terrible and painfull to watch... - simply tragedic! I guess thats how GOD views also the fall of humankind also....
 
I'd be interested to know how many of the women under 30 have these children in the context of marriage. Rare to see a "respectable" girl from a "respectable" family having kids at a young age. Career first!
It's rare but it does happen. I have a niece who got married at age 20. She's 25 now and already has two sons. She and her husband want more kids if they can afford it. My brother, her father, is an old school alpha male. My brother's wife comes from a traditional family of 13 kids.
 
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Easy_C

Peacock
How do we make western men strong again?

In the military, they are having issues with soldiers getting stress fractures and tendon injuries during training. This is because of too little physical activity over years.

Why am I bringing this up? Because the answer to your question is that you need to create environment where they are conditioned over years. Although you can improve muscle in a few months connective tissue takes longer to strengthen. Mental fortitude of all kinds, even longer than that.

You allow them to experience and acclimate to suffering, adversity, and discomfort beginning from a young age. It doesn’t have to be a Spartan culture…but let your kids be outside in the cold with you sometimes. Let them learn patience between meals and that feeling of being hungry after a long day. Let them experience the feeling breathing hard and sweating…and add on the challenges from tbere
 

muscacav

Robin
Other Christian
In the military, they are having issues with soldiers getting stress fractures and tendon injuries during training. This is because of too little physical activity over years.

Why am I bringing this up? Because the answer to your question is that you need to create environment where they are conditioned over years. Although you can improve muscle in a few months connective tissue takes longer to strengthen. Mental fortitude of all kinds, even longer than that.

You allow them to experience and acclimate to suffering, adversity, and discomfort beginning from a young age. It doesn’t have to be a Spartan culture…but let your kids be outside in the cold with you sometimes. Let them learn patience between meals and that feeling of being hungry after a long day. Let them experience the feeling breathing hard and sweating…and add on the challenges from tbere
Or avoid ar conditioning, avoid the elevator, take your children to a fishing camping, avoid overly processed food... there lots a can do rear stonger children. The far away from big cities the easier.
 

canuckj

Woodpecker
Other Christian
In the military, they are having issues with soldiers getting stress fractures and tendon injuries during training. This is because of too little physical activity over years.

Why am I bringing this up? Because the answer to your question is that you need to create environment where they are conditioned over years. Although you can improve muscle in a few months connective tissue takes longer to strengthen. Mental fortitude of all kinds, even longer than that.

You allow them to experience and acclimate to suffering, adversity, and discomfort beginning from a young age. It doesn’t have to be a Spartan culture…but let your kids be outside in the cold with you sometimes. Let them learn patience between meals and that feeling of being hungry after a long day. Let them experience the feeling breathing hard and sweating…and add on the challenges from tbere
This is a great post and a topic I think is even worthy of its own thread. There are a lot of things in here to unpack.

With my own son (12 years old) I have tried putting him in aggressive combative sports (rugby, wrestling, etc.) and he was also in a cub scout troop where they would spend entire weekends outside in the snow and rain, hiking up hills. All of that ended with COVID. It is also a constant uphill battle against the culture here in Canada. I don't think kids value strength or masculine virtue anymore and society puts out contradictory messages. In my day if you called someone weak it would be fighting words. Now I think kids don't care. When he was younger I tried finding books at the library with manly role models. It was almost impossible and I seriously tried. There were plenty of books with a tough girl doing dangerous things but hardly anything for boys. From my youth I remember books on cowboys, firemen, sea captains and soldiers. These books are long gone.

I think the institutions that were used to form men in the past may no longer exist. My daughter was in an army cadet corps for a while and it was heavily LGBTQ. She complained so much we finally let her quit. However, I have seen armored and field engineer reserve units that look like they were filled with masculine dudes so who knows. My point is that in the past there were at least a few institutions in society that could help shape a man. Now it seems you are completely on your own and trying to swim against the current. Perhaps, we could try to infiltrate and take these institutions over again?
 
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Solitarius

Robin
Catholic
This is a great post and a topic I think is even worthy of its own thread. There are a lot of things in here to unpack.

With my own son (12 years old) I have tried putting him in aggressive combative sports (rugby, wrestling, etc.) and he was also in a cub scout troop where they would spend entire weekends outside in the snow and rain, hiking up hills. All of that ended with COVID. It is also a constant uphill battle against the culture here in Canada. I don't think kids value strength or masculine virtue anymore and society puts out contradictory messages. In my day if you called someone weak it would be fighting words. Now I think kids don't care. When he was younger I tried finding books at the library with manly role models. It was almost impossible and I seriously tried. There were plenty of books with a tough girl doing dangerous things but hardly anything for boys. From my youth I remember books on cowboys, firemen, sea captains and soldiers. These books are long gone.

I think the institutions that were used to form men in the past may no longer exist. My daughter was in an army cadet corps for a while and it was heavily LGBTQ. She complained so much we finally let her quit. However, I have seen armored and field engineer reserve units that look like they were filled with masculine dudes so who knows. My point is that in the past there were at least a few institutions in society that could help shape a man. Now it seems you are completely on your own and trying to swim against the current. Perhaps, we could try to infiltrate and take these institutions over again?
There are a great many older books that would be useful that are free online. You might try The Matabele Campaign by Robert Baden Powell, this is an account of the author's experiences as a scout fighting bloodthirsty savages in Rhodesia during the Second Matabele War of 1896. It's very well written, not dry at all. For something older Froissart's Chronicles or Caesar's Gallic Wars would be good. Older books, or older translations such as Dryden's translation of Plutarch's Lives of The Noble Greeks & Romans also impart good diction which is sorely lacking in this dismal age. With the way things are going, pretty soon they'll be reduced to grunting & screaming like chimps.
 

grenade001

Woodpecker
Catholic
This is a great post and a topic I think is even worthy of its own thread. There are a lot of things in here to unpack.

With my own son (12 years old) I have tried putting him in aggressive combative sports (rugby, wrestling, etc.) and he was also in a cub scout troop where they would spend entire weekends outside in the snow and rain, hiking up hills. All of that ended with COVID. It is also a constant uphill battle against the culture here in Canada. I don't think kids value strength or masculine virtue anymore and society puts out contradictory messages. In my day if you called someone weak it would be fighting words. Now I think kids don't care. When he was younger I tried finding books at the library with manly role models. It was almost impossible and I seriously tried. There were plenty of books with a tough girl doing dangerous things but hardly anything for boys. From my youth I remember books on cowboys, firemen, sea captains and soldiers. These books are long gone.

I think the institutions that were used to form men in the past may no longer exist. My daughter was in an army cadet corps for a while and it was heavily LGBTQ. She complained so much we finally let her quit. However, I have seen armored and field engineer reserve units that look like they were filled with masculine dudes so who knows. My point is that in the past there were at least a few institutions in society that could help shape a man. Now it seems you are completely on your own and trying to swim against the current. Perhaps, we could try to infiltrate and take these institutions over again?

In Australia calling someone a "poof" or a "faggot" in high school were fighting words, this was 15 odd years ago.

In History class when we briefly learnt about WWI and WWII, a lot of the boys were keen to research about the tanks and planes and whatnot. But that was a brief foray into an otherwise uninspiring curriculum.

My Dad (born late 1940s) grew up in the era of cowboys and indians, and spaghetti westerns. The cohorts of the following decades had little reference material of the like.

Australian history was summed up in about a week or two of my entire schooling. Unless you undertook further study outside of school, you would have an extremely limited understanding of our history, as well as be completely unaware of many famous figures since 1788.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Roles reverse when people age.

Men who are single past 35 realize marriage is a scam, and thus become volcels
Women who are single past 35 realize they missed the boat and become incels.
Interesting take. Or we have to go to a situation where in marriage the state is surpassed. As the system is set up to destroy men at any level possible plus the state is evil in itself now, so the least dealing with them is preferable. That may result in more marriages for Church only, or ceremonial, with the same intentions are normally done through the state.
 

Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Roles reverse when people age.

Men who are single past 35 realize marriage is a scam, and thus become volcels
Women who are single past 35 realize they missed the boat and become incels.
Funny because mostly true. Would you say that men as they age realize marriage is a scam, or that it has diminishing returns. Or is this just more of a modern phenomenon, and you are commenting on the fact that marriage now is not what it used to be (not virgin marriages, long time fun dating then "marriage", easy divorce industry/culture, etc)?
 

coldpillow

Sparrow
Protestant
Interesting take. Or we have to go to a situation where in marriage the state is surpassed. As the system is set up to destroy men at any level possible plus the state is evil in itself now, so the least dealing with them is preferable. That may result in more marriages for Church only, or ceremonial, with the same intentions are normally done through the state.
I think society definitely needs a stronger stigma against both divorce and premarital sex, so people can pair bond together better and not be tempted to flee the arrangement.
Funny because mostly true. Would you say that men as they age realize marriage is a scam, or that it has diminishing returns. Or is this just more of a modern phenomenon, and you are commenting on the fact that marriage now is not what it used to be (not virgin marriages, long time fun dating then "marriage", easy divorce industry/culture, etc)?
Yes, it's very hard to get a virgin wife. In the past, a girl could be married soon after she started puberty, nowadays, she has several years after puberty to have sex before she even turns 18, and even at that age, she is told that marrying then is still young and to wait even more. Also divorce laws are heavily biased towards women. Men at 35 realize their marriage options are not the best, and as their sex drives weaken, their desire for women in general does, so they lose their desire for romance and companionship and are content with self preservation in a peaceful situation.
 

canuckj

Woodpecker
Other Christian
In Australia calling someone a "poof" or a "faggot" in high school were fighting words, this was 15 odd years ago.

In History class when we briefly learnt about WWI and WWII, a lot of the boys were keen to research about the tanks and planes and whatnot. But that was a brief foray into an otherwise uninspiring curriculum.

My Dad (born late 1940s) grew up in the era of cowboys and indians, and spaghetti westerns. The cohorts of the following decades had little reference material of the like.

Australian history was summed up in about a week or two of my entire schooling. Unless you undertook further study outside of school, you would have an extremely limited understanding of our history, as well as be completely unaware of many famous figures since 1788.
As far as history is concerned I believe Canada may be even worse. I remember the first time I learned of the Battle of Kapyong in the Korean War from an Australian documentary. From what I remember the Koreans were running away from the front lines while the Aussies and Canadians were pushing up to the front and then even fought the Chinese hand-to-hand at one point. At one point they even called for the Kiwi artillery to shell their own position. This should be in books for young men from both countries. Not to idolize war (the Chinese fought very bravely also) but to inspire them to courage and show them they have hero's from their own nation.

PS: Sorry to hijack this thread. This topic is one I spend a lot of time thinking about and couldn't help it.
 
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NotaBene

Sparrow
Protestant
I think the institutions that were used to form men in the past may no longer exist.

Yep, they are mostly dead. In "Church Impotent" by Leon Podles he goes into great detail about how we have lost the initiation rites for boys becoming men that span all cultures and history. With the loss of these rites, boys do not cease to need this, they only find new ways to answer the question "How do I become a man?" Or they never have the question answered at all and stay in limbo, purposeless and lacking motivation.

we could try to infiltrate and take these institutions over again?

Eh, we could try to vote to fix our governments too, but that's a lost cause. We lost the cultural and political battles long ago. Best you can do is create a bubble and make your own family or private "institution". Many great things were started by men for this reason - what they wanted did not exist at the time. I can think of three right now: Young Life, YMCA, and Boy Scouts. Each of these were motivated by wanting to fill the niche of [often male] religious and moral training that was lacking in families, schools, and churches. Each were very successful in their day.

That may result in more marriages for Church only

I'm very against marriage being a state contract at all. Don't marry under the state or recommend this to young men. Marriage is a vow between a man and woman and God, witnessed by the church, who are supposed to hold them accountable. That's it. Not a state contract.

I have toyed with "divorcing" my wife under this broken system, just to mess with it, because back when I was married no one told me that there were two different kinds of marriage.
 

MartyMcFly

Pelican
Other Christian
Interesting take. Or we have to go to a situation where in marriage the state is surpassed. As the system is set up to destroy men at any level possible plus the state is evil in itself now, so the least dealing with them is preferable. That may result in more marriages for Church only, or ceremonial, with the same intentions are normally done through the state.
Sadly, the government is ahead of you and in many states a couple is considered married simply because they lived together many years even without an official marriage contract. This is even more true if a marriage ceremony was performed.

Personally, I think the government doesn't belong in marriage at all. There are legal documents such as power of attorney and wills where legal marriage is unnecessary for legal issues (this is a common argument about why we need legal recognition of marriage).

Marriage is something else that government managed to hurt (among many things) by treating it as a trap (mostly one that will hurt men).
 

Number one bummer

Kingfisher
Other Christian
Gold Member
Marriage is something else that government managed to hurt (among many things) by treating it as a trap (mostly one that will hurt men).
I think society definitely needs a stronger stigma against both divorce and premarital sex, so people can pair bond together better and not be tempted to flee the arrangement.

Common law marriage, where couples live together and hold themselves out as married, despite never having it legally recognized, has just about disappeared. So no, it's not a way for government to try and trap you into being "married" if you live with a woman for a few years, as only a handful of states still recognize it as possible, and the elements are fact intensive. It's mostly an issue in trusts and estate cases anyway.

The irony is that most of what people currently decry as unfair divorce statutes and case law originated from a time when divorce was scarce. Before women could meaningfully enter the workforce, a man leaving his wife and kids passed their burden onto the state and community. Alimony pre-dates western culture. The government's role in the death of marriage is a reaction not the cause. The government streamlined the divorce system as a response to rising divorce rates and secularization of society, while failing to remove laws that historically were created to deterred men from abandoning their families.

Coldpillow is right, the social stigma is what needs to return. You could create the fairest family court system imaginable; we would still have a high-divorce rate and it would still suck for all involved. You could perfectly split assets, have universal joint custody and no alimony, but your children would still suffer considerable harm. The Christian position is divorce is wrong, not let's make everyone suffers equally under the law. I've seen cases where ex-spouses were ready to come to blows over who got to keep kitchen doorknobs. If your argument is that we just need to deter women from making poor secular decisions by tweaking how much money goes where every month, you've already lost sight of the issue.
 

blacknwhitespade

Kingfisher
Funny because mostly true. Would you say that men as they age realize marriage is a scam, or that it has diminishing returns. Or is this just more of a modern phenomenon, and you are commenting on the fact that marriage now is not what it used to be (not virgin marriages, long time fun dating then "marriage", easy divorce industry/culture, etc)?
It's somewhat a product of supply-demand in modern times. When women are young, the SMP is clearly skewed in their favor. And to this all the societal messaging about girl power/strong independent women/etc and the result is often low energy to find a serious relationship with a man. Meanwhile, young men in their 20s tend to be very romantically idealistic, and combined with their high testosterone and relatively lower position in the SMP, they pine for women more than their young counterparts desire them. Then comes the big SMP pendulum swing circa age 30. Women's SMVs plummet, men's SMVs increase. Men become aware of the SMP sea change, become wiser to the new possibilities their improved self-reliance can offer them, and become less idealistic about women. On the female over-30 side of things, all the modern girl power programming in all of clown world still cannot snuff out the deep evo-psych urges in women to crave having children and long-term security from men. Unfortunately for them, they just take too long to grow up nowadays.
 

Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
It's somewhat a product of supply-demand in modern times. When women are young, the SMP is clearly skewed in their favor. And to this all the societal messaging about girl power/strong independent women/etc and the result is often low energy to find a serious relationship with a man. Meanwhile, young men in their 20s tend to be very romantically idealistic, and combined with their high testosterone and relatively lower position in the SMP, they pine for women more than their young counterparts desire them. Then comes the big SMP pendulum swing circa age 30. Women's SMVs plummet, men's SMVs increase. Men become aware of the SMP sea change, become wiser to the new possibilities their improved self-reliance can offer them, and become less idealistic about women. On the female over-30 side of things, all the modern girl power programming in all of clown world still cannot snuff out the deep evo-psych urges in women to crave having children and long-term security from men. Unfortunately for them, they just take too long to grow up nowadays.
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Well done, this is spot on.

It's curious to think that the societal arrangement is a sort of dupe of younger men, in a sense. It's required for civilization to exist, which makes it not quite such, but it's actually sorta funny in that it's a proof that what we say, support, and try to perpetuate here at the forum is indeed without a doubt how things must be in order to have a functioning civilization.
 

WatchingWatchmen

Pigeon
Other Christian
btw, have you seen this old video?


talking about the sexual marketplace without mentioning contraception is quite pointless. This genie is out of the bottle so although
what we say, support, and try to perpetuate here at the forum is indeed without a doubt how things must be in order to have a functioning civilization
may be the truth, we won't be able to change it...
 

Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
btw, have you seen this old video?


talking about the sexual marketplace without mentioning contraception is quite pointless. This genie is out of the bottle so although

may be the truth, we won't be able to change it...

Just to add: They get some things right, but "men behaving as well or as badly" isn't really true. The example of the video game guy is a guy who's out of the game, which they don't talk about (most men) - the pareto principle (although I think it's closer to 5-10% of all men maybe worse). Also, they don't talk about women not valuing marriage until it is too late, which is pretty much the "solution" here in our views at rvf, at least for most women. But you could argue that the non-fat, prettiest women end up getting bailed out in their 30s, and the rest of the women are jealous of that very rare ability, so it strangely fits their thesis.

All in all, its a delay for everyone since survival issues have gone away for the better part of 60 years, tech and contraception came in, and age gap shaming sacrificing even more women at the altar, no pun intended.
 
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