So my friend's wife "might" be toxically femistic - how so I manage this

This Summer, my family and I spent some days with a friend and his family in a summer cottage. One evening a conversation opened (one I did not start myself) about the inequality of men vs. women in the exeutive space a topic - that I have no opinion on.

The conversation segwayed into the general inequalities of men and women and how I needed keep in mind raising my one year old daughter to be aware about the harsh realities of being a woman in an agressive job market that favours men over women. Some relative strong statements about patriarchial structures and opression of women were brought into play as if she was educating me about the realities of society.

Somewhere in the conversation I ended up having to identify the difference between men and women - what came next was blank slate equalism statements. I was dumbfounded that she harboured these very radical thoughts and have been thinking about it ever since.

Normally, If I am faced with this kind of behaviour I can either walk away or engage in a discussion on the basis of rationale.

These are friends though. Like. People I don't want to lose as friends. What so I do next time the situation happens with the same couple or other people I consider good friends.

I have a 9 year old son that I am thoroughly worried about given where things are generally headed societally. The night in question I ended up making a somewhat emotional case for the plight of young men and my son in particular. She die not quite understand what I was worried about and wanted me to elaborate on what my understanding of masculinity was. At that point I was considering an escalation but realised that I was trying to enjoy my holiday.

any life here other than find n
 
If they're particularly open minded people, you could politely ask questions that make them consider the reasons for their views. But generally, you'll win more people over to your viewpoint by making them like you and showing by example the value of your beliefs.

The Bible gives us three levels of presenting information to people:
1. " Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you. " (Matt. 7:6)
2. "I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it." (1 Cor. 3:2)
3. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear" (Matt 11:25 and other places)

Some people are totally unprepared to hear the truth, and you can't help them until they are. Others are ready for part of it, and you give them what they can take. Some are ready to swallow the red pill whole.
 

Salinger

Woodpecker
The Machiavellian side of me would debate her ridiculous points until she suffered defeat (as all libtards do in these arguments.) Then I'd take him aside when he was alone and point out what a cancer she is to him, urging him to cut her loose.

But the angel on my shoulder would shake its head in disappointment at my evil thoughts and tell me to mind my own business.
 

Grey

Sparrow
Bluntly, just be condescending to her, and don't treat her diatribes as if they're worth serious consideration.

Black slate equalism 'Oh, you think bodies don't do anything and the 'real' you is some abstract pure spirit'.

Do this in the tone of someone patronizing someone who believes in astrology.

What are the differences between men and women. 'You actually can't tell?'

Income inequity. 'Yeah, it sucks that employers are incentivized to hire women over men for publicity reasons'.

What about your daughter 'I hope she has a big family.'

Emotional plights = loss. You're appealing to her good will and mercy on a topic she doesn't care about you on.

If she continuously pushes just ignore her, fix attention on your friend, and suggest you do or talk about something more interesting.

You ought not be outright rude, just maintain frame control and reply to her complaints like she was a toddler that doesn't understand the basics of how reality works. Because that's what you're dealing with. If your freind has a major problem with that, you're going to come to loggerheads with him sooner or later anyway.

But there is a decent chance she will just shut up about those kinds of things around you, and that will be more or less the end of it. Don't give her attention, affirmation, or respect (engaging in an argument is a form of respect) for repeating her dogmas.

Otherwise be pleasent and cordial.
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
I like the idea of trying to change the subject, or leaving the room. Sort of like you would do in the younger days when a person would get over the top intoxicated and crying about their ex boyfriend or how all men suck etc.

Alternatively, if you want to engage, try being Socratic. Play dumb and only ask questions, however make sure those questions lead her to the insane areas of her philosophy. Don't argue, just play naive and ask scrupulous questions. For example, ask a feminist about 'intersectionality' and then watch her have to add 'race' into her impromptu sermon...then ask something like "So, where does my cousin Sarah fit in to all of this, I mean...she's Jewish, is that a religion or a race?" You then get her to tap dance harder.

Its the same thing with people who want to pontificate on gay, trans etc. Just let them riff and ask questions that makes them dance towards addressing pedo acceptance/inclusion that is the next phase of that movement. Like the trap of "Ok, so that seems fair, that people should be able to identify as whatever they "feel"...what about adults that identify as 10 year children?"
 

Elipe

Woodpecker
The conversation segwayed into the general inequalities of men and women and how I needed keep in mind raising my one year old daughter to be aware about the harsh realities of being a woman in an agressive job market that favours men over women.
This is when I'd turn to my wife, roll my eyes, and say, "We're outta here, those people are nutjobs." And she'd agree, and leave with me.
 

RWIsrael

Woodpecker
It's ok, you won't be invited again so no worries. I can imagine your friend getting an earful at home.
He might keep you at a distance from now on just to avoid BS from his wife.
Men forget about disagreements after 5 minutes, women cross you off their Christmas card list for life for minor reasons. In the worst case, if your friend can't control his wife's behaviour or stand up to her, then the friendship may be over or put on the back burner.

It's not about winning or losing the argument, it's just that you failed to support the feminist dogma and are not an ally, which makes you the enemy. The wife probably took it as a personal insult.

If these were strangers I would say it's fine to troll them, mock them or use rhetoric to show others how idiotic they are. Since they are friends I would just veer away from those subjects.
 

Arado

Pelican
Gold Member
It's too late to change most people's mind if they are convinced by their beliefs enough to push it on others actively.

Effort should be redirected towards the undecideds or those that sense something wrong with what they are being fed but don't actively seek dissident information.

Smile and nod, enjoy the holiday, and change the topic.
 

MiroKlose

Sparrow
This Summer, my family and I spent some days with a friend and his family in a summer cottage. One evening a conversation opened (one I did not start myself) about the inequality of men vs. women in the exeutive space a topic - that I have no opinion on.

The conversation segwayed into the general inequalities of men and women and how I needed keep in mind raising my one year old daughter to be aware about the harsh realities of being a woman in an agressive job market that favours men over women. Some relative strong statements about patriarchial structures and opression of women were brought into play as if she was educating me about the realities of society.

Somewhere in the conversation I ended up having to identify the difference between men and women - what came next was blank slate equalism statements. I was dumbfounded that she harboured these very radical thoughts and have been thinking about it ever since.

Normally, If I am faced with this kind of behaviour I can either walk away or engage in a discussion on the basis of rationale.

These are friends though. Like. People I don't want to lose as friends. What so I do next time the situation happens with the same couple or other people I consider good friends.

I have a 9 year old son that I am thoroughly worried about given where things are generally headed societally. The night in question I ended up making a somewhat emotional case for the plight of young men and my son in particular. She die not quite understand what I was worried about and wanted me to elaborate on what my understanding of masculinity was. At that point I was considering an escalation but realised that I was trying to enjoy my holiday.

any life here other than find n

If you closely analyse these people, deep down they know they are wrong and they are also full of hatred. Their whole agenda is not to prove you wrong or prove that they are morally better than you, but to rile you up i.e. to get in your head and destroy your peace and harmony because they are deep down very jealous that you are not soul-damaged like they are.

The best way I handled these people was by acting like I listen to them (let their words go in through one of your ears and let it go out through the other), nod my head and show no emotions, never give my opinions away. In other words, I will never let them rattle me and my peace. You show even a little bit of reaction to their opinions they start to hammer you down. Just be serene, expression less. Show your values and opinions through your actions. This really teaches them a lesson, because they see your values and opinions does work in real life whilst their empty ideological words lead them further to the abyss.
 

Zeknichov

Pigeon
Challenge them. There's no way around it. Don't let this woman direct the conversation and spew her garbage ideology. If it ever gets brought up immediately stop her and say "I don't agree with your views and find them offensive. Let's discuss something else. Also, could you please not speak to my children regarding any of the feminist propaganda you just mentioned. I don't want there minds poisoned by this garbage." This will lead to a confrontation/fight and you don't back down on it. You reassert that you think she's a fine woman but you disagree with her on these views, you don't want to discuss them and you don't want her bringing them up around your children. She will have to agree to those terms or she's not welcome.

Then let you buddy sort through the drama. If they're no longer your friends after then so be it.
 

Pendleton

Kingfisher
Challenge them. There's no way around it. Don't let this woman direct the conversation and spew her garbage ideology. If it ever gets brought up immediately stop her and say "I don't agree with your views and find them offensive. Let's discuss something else. Also, could you please not speak to my children regarding any of the feminist propaganda you just mentioned. I don't want there minds poisoned by this garbage." This will lead to a confrontation/fight and you don't back down on it. You reassert that you think she's a fine woman but you disagree with her on these views, you don't want to discuss them and you don't want her bringing them up around your children. She will have to agree to those terms or she's not welcome.

Then let you buddy sort through the drama. If they're no longer your friends after then so be it.

Exactly. You do not engage with these people on the substance of their beliefs. It is a headache for you and just legitimizes their lunacy when you should instead be shaming them. I have only retained a few leftist acquaintances and they never bring up their politics in my presence.
 

Grey

Sparrow
They love to mock conservative beliefs. Mock them and their beliefs and they go nuts. It's a fun game to play because on some level they know you are right and can't stand the fact that you don't fall for their nonsense.

For the devile is a proude spirit, he cannot bear to be mocked.

That'll set off a powderkeg though.

That depends on execution. Tactful and droll sarcasm can go a long way, or Socratic questions that are implicitly mocking as suggested above.

Principles of game apply. Reasoning in detail is a loss, asserting authority is a win. Frame control is far more important than a detailed logical thesis with sources and data backing it.
 
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