Society Is Losing It's Connection With Objective Reality

D

Diocletian

Woodpecker
Catholic
This is something I’ve been thinking about lately. Once this thought came to me I started seeing it in so many aspects of our world that I figured I’d hash it out in an effortpost to see what other people think.

Is modern society losing it’s connection with objective reality? I’m starting to think that this is an underlying cause of so much of the malaise that has been gripping Western society. You can see it in so many aspects of society. Many of them are deeply inter-related and one can certainly follow from the other, but they can still be broken out into broad categories. The following are a few of the obvious ones, you can surely apply this idea to others such as politics, law, economics, science, work, food, and so on.

Mental illness is an obvious outcome of some of these situations, especially transgenderism, abortion, and drug use. It also seems like an obvious outcome of atheism, although that might require some more thought to make the connection. I wouldn’t be surprised if mental illness is in some way also linked with forms of art and entertainment that have little connection to reality, and that will require some more thought as well.

I’m interested in hearing other people’s thoughts on this.
 
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D

Diocletian

Woodpecker
Catholic
The Body

One of the most striking examples of this loss of reality is transgenderism. A man can convince himself beyond all physical evidence that he is really a woman and will go to any length to present himself as a woman, from taking a feminine name, to wearing women’s clothes and hairstyles, and even to the extreme case of undergoing genital alteration surgery. In some jurisdictions one can even face legal consequences for denying that a man who presents himself as a woman is a woman. Despite these presentations there exists an undeniable fact that men are men and women are women at the most basic fundamental level, that level being of course the XX and XY chromosome differences.

It is pretty obvious that the fetus is alive through the fact that it grows, changes, consumes nutrition, and has the potential to die. There is a clear procession of events that always starts with fertilization and never before, always involves non-stop change and non-stop consumption of energy within and without the womb, and always ends at some point within or without the womb in death. It makes no rational sense to pick some point in that procession after fertilization and say “now it is alive” despite the fact that those exact same events are continuously occurring before that point. Yet many in society willfully deny in the face of this clear and obvious reality that it is alive.
 
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D

Diocletian

Woodpecker
Catholic
The Mind

Drug use is a pretty good demonstration of this disconnect from reality. Anybody who has ever been a drug addict or at least has had friends and family who have been addicts know full well that one of the primary purposes of drug use is to escape from reality.

Drug use can create false emotions—the addict can experience what he perceives to be, for example, love, happiness, and euphoria by ingesting various chemicals. But these emotions are in fact just simulacrums of the real emotions that one obtains from real world experiences such as bonding with your father, playing with your children, or being with your wife.

Drug use can also create false experiences through hallucinations. One can ingest a hallucinogen and interact with people or objects that don’t exist, or have visions of places that one has never been to. This replaces real interactions with real people and places that exist outside of one’s individual mind.

Relationships with other people are fundamental to the human mind, after all we are mentally (as well as physically) social creatures. We naturally seek approval from others for our actions and beliefs. Do “likes” constitute real interactions or are they “unreal” interactions? A “like” is often just a few pixels on a screen that people will give as a blind reaction to some fleeting thing you say on Facebook. That may not be a real “approval” in the sense that the other person has actually thought about what you said or did, or has had a distinct emotional reaction to what you said or did. Likewise, a Facebook friend isn’t a real “friend” in the sense that you both have some kind of positive interaction, or even any kind of interaction beyond a few more pixels on a screen.
 
D

Diocletian

Woodpecker
Catholic
Entertainment and Art

Entertainment has always had an element of unreality, but I think that this has been becoming more and more extreme. Take the superhero for example. Look through the history of literature and the superhero has always existed in some form from Hercules to Beowulf to King Arthur etc., and now to the modern extension in movies. What we now see are adults who are totally immersing themselves in that entertainment to the extent that they amass huge collections of children’s toys and spend inordinate amounts of money on comic books, memorabilia, costumes, and convention experiences all of which are centered around characters which have no connection to the real world. It has gone from an occasional fun indulgence to an obsession with something that is completely unreal.

You can see a principle of unreality at work in music, with the rise of genres such as techno where works are largely created through computers instead of originating from a man manipulating a physical instrument. On the other hand, take a work such as Handel’s Messiah. On top of the instrumental parts it conveys real human emotion through the voice as opposed to beeps and boops created by a computer. Its not a perfect analogy by any means but you can see what I’m getting at.

You also have abstract art. Throughout history art has only rarely been a perfect representation of human or natural forms, either due to stylistic preferences or technical limitations, but even with stylistic representations there is at least some connection with reality. Human figures in ancient Egyptian tombs are heavily stylistic, but they still have some kind of connection with a distinct reality in their depiction of what are obviously men and women or scenes of everyday life. Neolithic cave drawings are far from perfect depictions of humans and animals, but they still show the distinct realities of the human activity of hunting and many of the animal species can be identified. The same thing goes for impressionism. Now, abstraction is generally considered high art. Jackson Pollock created works that fetch incredible sums of money yet carry absolutely zero connection with anything real beyond the materials they were created with.
 
D

Diocletian

Woodpecker
Catholic
Religion

I used to be atheist as I’m sure others here have been, and personal weaknesses led me back to God. In my heart I know Him to be true, but there is also the reality that God can be proven to be true through reason. I’m reading right now The Last Supersition by Edward Feser (he has some great videos on YouTube which I definitely recommend you watch), and part of that book involves exploring Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas and their demonstrations through reason of the existence of God. Going over those you can see that it is blindingly obvious that God is real, and that denial of His existence is another clear disconnect from reality. At this point I’m not well-versed enough in their arguments to present a thorough description of them, but one of the most striking arguments for me is the existence of final causality or “goal-directedness” in nature apart from the human mind. Things, both animate and inanimate, have an obvious purpose to their existence.

“The fifth way is taken from the governance of the world. We see that things which lack intelligence, such as natural bodies, act for an end, and this is evident from their acting always, or nearly always, in the same way, so as to obtain the best result. Hence it is plain that not fortuitously, but designedly, do they achieve their end. Now whatever lacks intelligence cannot move towards an end, unless it be directed by some being endowed with knowledge and intelligence; as the arrow is shot to its mark by the archer. Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God."

https://www.newadvent.org/summa/1002.htm#article3

Acorns are “directed” towards becoming trees, the genitals are “directed” towards reproduction, the sun is “directed” towards giving us light and heat, and so forth. There is rationality and order in the world, you can’t deny this. Without that order and rationality nothing would exist as it governs all of material reality right down to the most basic level. Order and rationality cannot come out of chaos and irrationality, and so must be imposed upon the world by a rational and orderly actor. The only actor who has the power to impose those things upon everything in existence must of course be God. To believe anything else is a denial of basic reality.
 
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B

ben1

 
Banned
The root cause is Romans 1: God giving them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity and a debased mind because they do not honor God as God or give him thanks.

The mechanism of this modern instance is postmodernism, which rebelled against the rationalism of modernism to replace it with a decadent subjectivism. It is not merely that they have rejected reality, it is that they have established realities that are contradictory with one another and unconstrained by the physical world. Individualism has so radically replaced rational thought that they think it is a fundamental injustice for them to be treated as wrong.
 
The Penitent Man

The Penitent Man

Kingfisher
Protestant
This question is something I’ve thought about pretty frequently, especially in progressing with my faith in God. I think about the problem with sort of a basic math analogy:

In math, there are immutable truths/laws that form the foundation of the whole structure. These must be accepted or else nothing makes any sense or has any useful application. 1 + 1 = 2, with no exceptions. If you accept the premise that sometimes 1 + 1 = 3, then you’ve lost the whole plot. If that can be true, there isn’t any reason the answer can’t be 5 or 500, or anything else you decide.

God’s morality is no different. The Word is the truth and Christ is the cornerstone, the fundamental building block. I think E. Michael Jones calls it logos. If that is dismissed, you lose your grip on reality.

Take sexuality. If you divorce sex from reproduction and instead tie it solely to pleasure, you get promiscuity without reproduction. 1+1 now equals 3. If sex is solely for pleasure, why limit it to just a man with a woman? If 1+1 can be 3, there isn’t any reason it can’t be 4. And if a man can fulfill the role of a woman in sex, why then can’t he just become a woman for all intents and purposes? The same goes for abortion, the value of life, etc.

If you can accept the lie that 1+1 = 3, you don’t have a basis to object to it being 253. Even though one is closer to the truth, they’re both equally wrong. If you apply that math to reality, both answers will get your plane crashed or collapse your bridge, it just depends on how quickly. If you apply that morality to society, you’ll get the same results. People have rejected the most fundamental truth and the cornerstone of reality. The rest of it will just keep unraveling by itself like that loose string on a sweater.
 
D

Dan Handler

 
Banned
Diocletian said:
This is something I’ve been thinking about lately. Once this thought came to me I started seeing it in so many aspects of our world that I figured I’d hash it out in an effortpost to see what other people think.

Is modern society losing it’s connection with objective reality? I’m starting to think that this is an underlying cause of so much of the malaise that has been gripping Western society. You can see it in so many aspects of society. Many of them are deeply inter-related and one can certainly follow from the other, but they can still be broken out into broad categories. The following are a few of the obvious ones, you can surely apply this idea to others such as politics, law, economics, science, work, food, and so on.

Mental illness is an obvious outcome of some of these situations, especially transgenderism, abortion, and drug use. It also seems like an obvious outcome of atheism, although that might require some more thought to make the connection. I wouldn’t be surprised if mental illness is in some way also linked with forms of art and entertainment that have little connection to reality, and that will require some more thought as well.

I’m interested in hearing other people’s thoughts on this.
Click to expand...

The increase in mental illness is caused by exposure to anti-androgens such as BPA, phtalates, and parabens which can lower testosterone levels and thus the intelligence of people.

Read the following post for a list of anti-androgens that need to be avoided and a list of testosterone boosting supplements:

Supplements and foods that may DECREASE testosterone

How about taking supplements that help in boosting testosterone levels?
www.rooshvforum.com www.rooshvforum.com
 
H

HKBhusal

Robin
ben1 said:
The root cause is Romans 1: God giving them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity and a debased mind because they do not honor God as God or give him thanks.

The mechanism of this modern instance is postmodernism, which rebelled against the rationalism of modernism to replace it with a decadent subjectivism. It is not merely that they have rejected reality, it is that they have established realities that are contradictory with one another and unconstrained by the physical world. Individualism has so radically replaced rational thought that they think it is a fundamental injustice for them to be treated as wrong.
Click to expand...

Related to/preceded by the enlightenment. History constantly recycles with episodes of mankind trying to trivialize and rationalize out divine Christian law with "subjectivism." Rene Descartes ("Cogito, ergo sum") was a heretic IMO. Unfortunately, today has become a less intellectual version of that, also propelled by new age 'awakening' rhetoric. I think it relates to the points you mentioned.
 
Max Roscoe

Max Roscoe

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
I wrote a ROK article about how Holy Matrimony has been eclipsed by "marriage" which does not require virginity, a lifelong commitment, or even a priest.

Really, the idea of a civil marriage is pointless. Why does one need a state certificate to have a live-in girlfriend, which is all that a secular "marriage" is? (also now, live-in boyfriend).

If the relationship can be ended at any time (and in fact the no fault divorce laws Reagan introduced *require* that there be no establishment of cause or reason), then is it even a marriage? How is it different than long term dating? It's not.

Holy matrimony is when a chaste couple, joined with their parents permission and blessing, under the hand of a priest, join together and become one. It is the foundation of the family, of love, and of procreation.

No priest would join me to a stranger in holy matrimony tomorrow. Yet, I could meet a questionable woman and be wed in Vegas in a matter of hours. These are two very, very different acts, yet our society treats them as the same.

------------------------------

Further, the actual existence, how we experience life, is really bizarre in the modern world. It is even more so in the coronavirus days where I am isolated from others. When I travel, I explore, I taste rich, fresh, healthy foods coming straight from the land or the oceans. I see people laughing, living, loving, and I am often a guest who is invited to join in their happiness briefly, when they invite me into their home, or share a meal with me.

But home in America, I live a solitary life where I struggle to find non-processed foods to shove down my throat so I can stare at a screen to make money, communicate with others, and entertain myself. Friends watch sports, drink, take drugs, play video games, and text me. This is all a simulation of living. People in ancient Rome had none of our modern technologies, yet they had an advanced culture and lived, and loved, and experienced life. I crave such an existence, and such a society.

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Yes, our entertainment is too often glorification of pleasure. We are a nation hooked on drugs, of all types (which create their own illusions separating us from reality). Our religion is too often not a set of moral guidance that allows us to be in harmony with God, but a set of permissible freedoms that make us feel better about ourselves. Our art is obscure and uninspiring. Our architecture is brutal and ugly. And as Mike Enoch recently said, "modern American poetry is mulattos trained by Jews to say civil rights garbage--nothing of substance is produced artistically in this country". The question is, is all this inevitable, like Uncle Ted warned us, or is it possible to have a technologically advanced society that is still human and real and good?
 
The Penitent Man

The Penitent Man

Kingfisher
Protestant
Max Roscoe said:
I wrote a ROK article about how Holy Matrimony has been eclipsed by "marriage" which does not require virginity, a lifelong commitment, or even a priest.

Really, the idea of a civil marriage is pointless. Why does one need a state certificate to have a live-in girlfriend, which is all that a secular "marriage" is? (also now, live-in boyfriend).

If the relationship can be ended at any time (and in fact the no fault divorce laws Reagan introduced *require* that there be no establishment of cause or reason), then is it even a marriage? How is it different than long term dating? It's not.

Holy matrimony is when a chaste couple, joined with their parents permission and blessing, under the hand of a priest, join together and become one. It is the foundation of the family, of love, and of procreation.

No priest would join me to a stranger in holy matrimony tomorrow. Yet, I could meet a questionable woman and be wed in Vegas in a matter of hours. These are two very, very different acts, yet our society treats them as the same.

------------------------------

Further, the actual existence, how we experience life, is really bizarre in the modern world. It is even more so in the coronavirus days where I am isolated from others. When I travel, I explore, I taste rich, fresh, healthy foods coming straight from the land or the oceans. I see people laughing, living, loving, and I am often a guest who is invited to join in their happiness briefly, when they invite me into their home, or share a meal with me.

But home in America, I live a solitary life where I struggle to find non-processed foods to shove down my throat so I can stare at a screen to make money, communicate with others, and entertain myself. Friends watch sports, drink, take drugs, play video games, and text me. This is all a simulation of living. People in ancient Rome had none of our modern technologies, yet they had an advanced culture and lived, and loved, and experienced life. I crave such an existence, and such a society.

-----

Yes, our entertainment is too often glorification of pleasure. We are a nation hooked on drugs, of all types (which create their own illusions separating us from reality). Our religion is too often not a set of moral guidance that allows us to be in harmony with God, but a set of permissible freedoms that make us feel better about ourselves. Our art is obscure and uninspiring. Our architecture is brutal and ugly. And as Mike Enoch recently said, "modern American poetry is mulattos trained by Jews to say civil rights garbage--nothing of substance is produced artistically in this country". The question is, is all this inevitable, like Uncle Ted warned us, or is it possible to have a technologically advanced society that is still human and real and good?
Click to expand...

I think it’s possible in a theoretical sense, but that would involve an entire society that has a serious ability to control the passions. In reality, the technology just creates too many distractions. It makes life easier so we have a lot more time to waste on pleasure-seeking and useless activities. Idle hands, and so on, And then there’s the whole mass media effect. I’m guessing Ted was probably right.
 
Foolsgo1d

Foolsgo1d

Peacock
The thread title sums up the Washington D.C NG/Fed/State police surge situation perfectly.

They are going to be kept there till at least the end of 2021. Some bad things are coming down the line and they want that area to be locked down.
 
P

Pantheon

Robin
Orthodox
I think the subjectivity of postmodernism is actually an objective submission to technology. The relationship between man and nature is allowed no objective dimension. Man is subtracted from the equation - becoming a merely subjective unit - while technology usurps any possible objective POV of reality.
 
J

Jacob Robinson

Woodpecker
Catholic
Used to, people would adopt nutty ideologies because they sounded good. Then change their mind when they experienced the real world and discovered that what works and what sounds good have minimal overlap.

The problem for the last 10 - 15 years is that very few people in the West experience the real world. What they experience is limited to what they choose to see, or what is pushed onto them, on their smart phone. Instead of ideologies being overthrown by reality, they are reinforced 24/7.
 
D

Diocletian

Woodpecker
Catholic
The Penitent Man said:
This question is something I’ve thought about pretty frequently, especially in progressing with my faith in God. I think about the problem with sort of a basic math analogy:

In math, there are immutable truths/laws that form the foundation of the whole structure. These must be accepted or else nothing makes any sense or has any useful application. 1 + 1 = 2, with no exceptions. If you accept the premise that sometimes 1 + 1 = 3, then you’ve lost the whole plot. If that can be true, there isn’t any reason the answer can’t be 5 or 500, or anything else you decide.

God’s morality is no different. The Word is the truth and Christ is the cornerstone, the fundamental building block. I think E. Michael Jones calls it logos. If that is dismissed, you lose your grip on reality.

Take sexuality. If you divorce sex from reproduction and instead tie it solely to pleasure, you get promiscuity without reproduction. 1+1 now equals 3. If sex is solely for pleasure, why limit it to just a man with a woman? If 1+1 can be 3, there isn’t any reason it can’t be 4. And if a man can fulfill the role of a woman in sex, why then can’t he just become a woman for all intents and purposes? The same goes for abortion, the value of life, etc.

If you can accept the lie that 1+1 = 3, you don’t have a basis to object to it being 253. Even though one is closer to the truth, they’re both equally wrong. If you apply that math to reality, both answers will get your plane crashed or collapse your bridge, it just depends on how quickly. If you apply that morality to society, you’ll get the same results. People have rejected the most fundamental truth and the cornerstone of reality. The rest of it will just keep unraveling by itself like that loose string on a sweater.
Click to expand...

God's morality is based on what works and doesn't work for humanity. The atheist will say that things like prohibition against homosexuality is arbitrary, but it really isn't. If you engage in homosexual behavior you're highly likely to start using drugs, become physically injured by the homosexual act, and suffer severe mental illness. God's law isn't arbitrary because following it prevents all those terrible consequences. EMJ takes "logos" from the first part of the Gospel of John, it is the original Greek word that is translated into English as "word," whereas he makes the point that when you use other translations of logos such as "rationality" and "order" it all makes sense. Christ is pure rationality and pure order. Follow those laws and you will have order in your life.
 
D

Diocletian

Woodpecker
Catholic
Dan Handler said:
The increase in mental illness is caused by exposure to anti-androgens such as BPA, phtalates, and parabens which can lower testosterone levels and thus the intelligence of people.

Read the following post for a list of anti-androgens that need to be avoided and a list of testosterone boosting supplements:

Supplements and foods that may DECREASE testosterone

How about taking supplements that help in boosting testosterone levels?
www.rooshvforum.com www.rooshvforum.com
Click to expand...

Maybe. I think the biggest problems comes from psychiatric and recreational drugs, as well as broader cultural issues especially atheism. Drinking out of a plastic cup on a daily basis probably won't affect you if you eat well and lift.
 
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