Some good news: Hungary sees abortion numbers plunge with rise of pro-family policies

Glaucon

Ostrich
Gold Member
Cr33pin said:
This is good news for any country

Also Fuck Hungary... I found Hungarians in Budapest to be some of the shitiest people I ever encountered in my travels of around 20 countries.
DentalPitifulAmericanriverotter-small.gif

Well, Budapest is the craphole of Hungary, even as a hungarian I hate that place, and I am not alone.

We call it "The wind blows the trash into Budapest" effect...
 
Cr33pin said:
Also Fuck Hungary... I found Hungarians in Budapest to be some of the shitiest people I ever encountered in my travels of around 20 countries.

Why? Care to give an example?

I find that interesting. After my travels of around 40 countries, I would probably say the exact opposite.
 

Mage

 
Heuristics said:
We have a Hungarian calling Budapest a shithole while another member, probably currently based there, is saying its not.

I'm grabbing my popcorn.

Stop lying.

Any careful reader would observe that:

1)You said - Hungary and the whole EE is shithole

2)I say - the whole EE is not a shithole

3)the Hungarian says: Budapest is shit hole.

Since Budapest doesn't equal the whole of EE there is no contradiction between statements nr.2 and nr.3

Either your written text comprehension is bad or you are lying creating false antagonisms.

Also this question about shitholes is very subjective. For some people everywhere is a shithole, because they themselves are full of shit and whatever hole they go to becomes a shithole.

For other people nearly every place on planet holds some potential benefit, because they themselves have positive vibes and wherever they go they can make the best out of it.

The lesson you should learn is to avoid casually calling other people's countries shitholes.

I wonder where do you choose to live? Which place on this planet is so pristine and pure that it cannot be called a shithole in any way? Please share with your Paradise location.
 
Incorrect:

When I say a statement like “life is shit” here’s what I mean (and no i didn't call Hungary a shithole):

Poland, while based, will be eventually forced to cede to the EU’s demands to let migrants in. Yes they have a rightist government, but the economy is simply the biggest issue for the Poles. They’ll roll over to the EU that way the populist government has something to run on for the next elections. For all the guys gaming there, the situation is very temporary and soon you’ll see plenty of migrants there. Put simply, if the Poles don’t comply with EU’s demands they’ll get kicked out. That’s not a reality Poles want to live with. The country in many ways is surviving off of remittances being sent from the UK and other Western Countries. They can’t lose that lifeline for their citizens who face a somewhat undesirable domestic job situation.

That's the reality in most of eastern europe. Remittances and poor jobs, lack of jobs as well.

You fail to see the parallels between Poland and countries that have recently joined the expansion:

Did Poland, a really positive case for globalism and the EU ever catch up? The answer is no. They are the de facto mexico of europe.

They won't catch up the game is rigged. They will never reach Western standards. There are way too many factors at play that prevent it.

Ukraine continues to be a massive shithole much like Russia. Many Ukrainians go to Poland. There is no EU anytime soon, as corruption continues to paralyze the place not to mention the proxy war in the East that has caused living standards to noticeably decrease.

Note: I did call Ukraine a shithole, but I don’t think anyone is gonna disagree with me. Corruption there and in many other places does not make the place attractive long term. As well as ongoing geopolitics of the region. Situation is so bad they have to go to Poland, ironically the Poles leave Poland to go somewhere better.

The Balkans, next frontier of European expansion are a mess: likely they will be the cross the EU dies on given the volatility of the region, if not Russia/ Ukraine. Massive amounts of corruption are being ignored to accelerate the expansion project which demands cheap, transient labor. If you think the economy is weak in a place like Poland, and others, boy is it bad in the Balkans. Autocratic tendencies of many Balkan leaders are being ignored, which really shows you how anti-democratic the EU is. It's a geopolitical game to expand european influence while neutering Russia.

Don't get overly triggered because much of the Balkans are a legitimate shithole much like Ukraine. Ask someone from the Balkans, or maybe run into some of them in Germany. Again, I give a clear reason for why. I feel empathy for people who have a bad situation to deal with.

Russia, although only partly Europe is a key example of misplaced hopes among European natalists who somehow think Putin is reversing the decline. First of all, Russia is massively multi-ethnic, much like the US, so in any meaningful sense their fate is already sealed. Yes, more people are going to church but state religion is being used as a cultural zeitgeist to placate the population while their country suffers from massive graft, economic mismanagement and demographic decline. You could say in simplier terms the church is a low-risk outlet for civic oriented russian nationalism, which is exactly what putin wants. HIV/ AIDs huge problem there because of drug use. Alcoholism still a massive problem but only decreased because the living standards finally improved after the breakup of the Soviet Union, that was bound to happen period because communism is always more shitty than capitalism. Abortions have dropped, but holy shit do the Russians like to abort. The economy is shit and thus people will have very few kids. Another element of the dynamic ignored is that there is massive immigration from FSU states/ Russian states like Uzbekistan, Georgia, Caucuses, etc. No one knows how many but it’s a lot. Need you remember the places have much higher birthrates than the ethnic Russian-slavic population. The improvements have been marginal, but one thing for sure: Russia is a place in decline, and has been for quite some time now. Russia's wealth class makes every effort possible to get out of the country physically as well as getting their money out. The kids they have are raised in the West. Simply put, the population that has the most of a stake in Russia has already cashed their chips in and walked away. That tells you all you need to know about the place's future.

And Hungary: yes Orban is nationalist. He expelled the Soros hydra. Good for him. But life there and in other Eastern European places is still shit. The might of Hungary is nothing compared to the France/ Germany dominated EU. They will meet the EU’s demands or be expelled like Poland. The fact that they have minimal migrants is just a temporary thing. How populist is your populism if the EU gets a veto on it? That’s my question.

It's very simple many of the EE countries are net drains on the EU and rely on their handouts to keep afloat. Thus they will follow EU dictates. Keeping in mind, EU is happy to exploit EE. That is "multi-speed europe" in a nutshell.

I do not just place the blame on these countries: I also put it on the EU, and to a lesser extent the US, because there really no was any post-wall Marshall Plan for EE:

Fundamentally the EU has acted as a check on nationalism in the Western countries, keeping in mind that it was still somehow unable to prevent the genocides and ethnic cleansings of the Balkans in the 90s (despite already having plenty of regional power at that point), but in more recent times has been unable to prevent democratic backsliding in countries that are now members, both before and after their EU accessions.

This is a recurring problem and is now happening in potential Balkan candidates as well as arguably Poland and Hungary.

Easterners head West for the Same reason refugees head West:

But, when you really understand these massive inflows of immigration you understand it's not about humanitarinism. It's about economics. That is why they choose not to stay in Greece or Italy and head either North (to Scandinavia) or West, to Germany, France or the UK.

Why do you find some many Poles in UK? Why do you find so many Balkans people in Austria, Germany or Switzerland?

Notice that I didn’t call Hungary a shithole. Rather I said life there is shit. Why do you think people on the forum visit or live there? Is there a cost factor involved? The answer is yes.

No answer from you on this point.

One of my main points about Eastern Europe, it won’t catch up to the West:

The end of communism was nearly 30 years ago. Yet somehow Eastern Europe hasn’t caught up yet. Some Eastern European countries have even joined the EU. What you can observe is “Multispeed Europe” in action. The east won’t catch up with the west, in fact, the normative premise of the EU is to take advantage of this fact, while selling to the Eastern Europeans that their development process is going well. That’s the truth. You don’t have to agree with it

….

The problems of much of Eastern Europe are similar: poor employment, not enough children, bloated or corrupt civil sector, democratic backsliding (noticeable), and continued exploitation from EU—making them subservient to the rest of Europe. Sure, there aren’t many migrants, but you seem to forget places like Hungary are huge transit points right now. So the crisis does touch Hungary.

You didn’t address my point about the situation in much of EE outside of the capitols. You show a stunning lack of awareness of the situation on the ground for someone that professes to live there:

The ironic thing of course is people think by visiting Budapest they’ve visited Hungary, but hey I actually don’t know where you’ve visited. When you get out of the large cities with big infrastructure in Eastern Europe, you start to say “shit, this place doesn’t seem as livable as a thought.” Of course you seldom hear about that because everyone is in the cities. In some of these cities the living standard is measurably 2 to 3 times greater.


Places like Budapest and others can be quite nice, again I didn’t call it or shithole, but remember what the local population is dealing with.

Locals don't get to live like you.

If you want to objectively see how good of a place it is, look at incomes, crime, employment rate, corruption, ease of doing business, freedom of press, and adherence to democratic values. None of that is subjective by the way.

Ironically I have a fondness for shitholes, and no I don’t live in a big city.

Where I live is not relevant, but I've seen plenty of the world. I know enough to know that people who don't see more than the surface level of things have perceptions of reality that are massively skewed.
 

Once Was Not

Kingfisher
RE:

The problem with Hungary is that it is small, weak, and landlocked. It is in no position to oppose the very powerful west and it's society destroying agenda. Kind of like Poland, despite their intense nationalism they are between two much more powerful entities that they'll have to choose from eventually. Russia, or the US/EU. Already they have US bases and troops on their soil.

Perhaps if the entire Eastern and Central Europe consolidated into a new Commonwealth or something then they would have enough power to stand on their own. Unfortunately I don't think that will be happening any time soon. The grand plan of fracturing Europe into a million tiny pieces to keep it weak and easily controlled has worked quite well. I mean what exactly do places like Slovakia or Slovenia intend to do with their sovereignty besides be pushed around by literally everyone else?

I'm sure one can find something negative about any country in Europe. But in 25-30 years most in the West will be grateful for a place where they can be among their own people and not a minority in their own country. In such a time it will not be a strong economy people look for, but strong borders and a protective policy toward their own people and nation.
 
First of all, the word "shithole" is way overused. To me, Somalia is a "shithole". It is a failed state with no redeeming qualities. It's like a fat girl with a bad attitude. But even the poorest EE nation is not. Things like a stable infrastructure, a decent educational system, and health care already push EE above that level. Do wages suck for the most part? Yea. Is life all about money? Nah. Social life in EE is great and families are intact for the most part.

I noticed Heuristics has Slavoj Zizek in his avatar, which is fitting since he's also a guy known for talking out of his ass.
 
TigerMandingo said:
First of all, the word "shithole" is way overused. To me, Somalia is a "shithole". It is a failed state with no redeeming qualities. It's like a fat girl with a bad attitude. But even the poorest EE nation is not. Things like a stable infrastructure, a decent educational system, and health care already push EE above that level. Do wages suck for the most part? Yea. Is life all about money? Nah. Social life in EE is great and families are intact for the most part.

I noticed Heuristics has Slavoj Zizek in his avatar, which is fitting since he's also a guy known for talking out of his ass.

He's also a Trump supporter so jokes on you! I do not understand the perverse bro-fasincation people have with Orban and Hungary. They're cucked to the EU permanently-- they sold their soul for EU gibbs.

Agreed word is over-used. Keep in mind though that infrastructure is pretty bad in some of these countries, comparing in many ways to mexico. Education systems can decent, but when you start talking about access to basic level stuff, there are a lot of gaps outside the first tier cities. Families are not intact in EE that is a misnomer, huge divorce rates. Although social life can be good.
 

Kaligula

Woodpecker
Poland problems are not specifically EE. Poland is less corrupt than Greece or Italy, on par with Spain I think. Polish state was strong enough to crush the burgeoning mafia in the nineties. Now we are left only with white collar crime.

There were 3 main so called Kondratiev waves in the West - wave understood as riding a new industry - coal, oil (petrochemical industry), information technology. West Europe rode coal and oil (the best example being poor Bayern becoming rich after WWII due to its new auto industry), but not information technology wave which is partly American (software), partly Far East (hardware). In fact, the original name of European Union was European Coal and Steel Community.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community

There is no next big profitable industry on the horizon to create prosperity for EE. But also for WE. This is the biggest problem. Real estate is not an industry at all, in fact real estate rising prices prove the lack of new industrial prospects in the entire Europe. There is nothing else left to invest in, only real estate. That countries like Poland or Hungary, deindustrialized Britain likewise, try to build their economies upon real estate is a sign of weak, deindustrialized economy, unfortunately.

Also, just after Poland EU accession Siemens destroyed the indigenous Polish electronic industry main plant, ELWRO, by buyout. This is the sad truth. The advanced industry in EE was destroyed not by Asia, but by Western Europe. But eternally cunning and monopolizing Germans are our friends now...! Germans like to think that they are the new Hellas, so the old Troy adage holds: beware Danaen bringing gifts!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elwro

Peak employment at the plant was up to 6000 people. The factory was privatized in 1993 and purchased by Siemens, but wound down production.
 

SlickyBoy

Hummingbird
Taxes and regulation.... that's so quaint it almost sounds like a 1990s republican talking point. (for European readers, the republicans are supposed to be the American "conservative" party, but they're really just a different gang of sellouts. That's why they can't stand Trump taking over their show - he's not one of them.)

Diversity is a much greater problem, if only in terms of importing raw numbers of apathetic voters who support government freebies. There's no sense worrying about taxes and regulation when metaphorically, the back door of your house was taken off the hinges and a crowd of squatters already set up a shanty in your living room.

By the time you sort out who used up the most electricity last month, it's clear you're the only one left who will be paying the bill.
 

Coja Petrus Uscan

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Does anyone have any tips for locating good, younger wife-material women in Hungary? I saw this a few days ago; and Hungary has come to the forefront of my radar.

I met a Catholic Hungaro-Croat in Serbia who had all the right ideas, but she'd hit the wall.

On the regulation I suspect it's like some say. I bought a house a few miles from Hungary, from a Hungarian. Given the reputation of the area for business I was expecting it to be a trouble. But it took three meetings with the lawyer and it was done. I think it's pretty easy to get the normal things in life done there. Whereas, in Britain for example people have been locked out of the housing market by a combination of mass immigration and housing regulation. You can only build on the narrow strip of land around towns; and after lots of negotiating with the government and the endless regulations to do with construction type, electrics etc. And for that reason an acre of certified building land costs about £1,000,000; while an acre of agricultural land is £10,000. That's the main reason many young people can't buy houses. And the national debate is controlled by people who don't know anything and have never had a job, so it's never mentioned.

Then you have the phenomena of mass immigration, where teens have been displaced by immigrants with who have lower expectations and more experience. See the charts for when youth unemployment started bubbling up. It coincides with Tony Bliar's mass immigration. Something like 90% of new households are immigrants, while the native young are living in shared housing into their 30s or masturbating over porn in their childhood bedroom.

A recent government report stated that 20% of the huge increase in house prices over the last 20 years is due to immigration. Naturally, the fake news ignore it and would have no idea what it was about anyway.

It would be very easy to start turning this stuff around, but it would be a hate crime to do so and the people and media are too far gone.

Whereas in EE, you can buy a strip a land and start building your own home. This is now virtually impossible in the UK as the construction behamoths have roped control of the hyper-regulated construction permit racket.

For someone who is location independent there is no question, EE is better for virtually everything. Here I don't speak to neighbours I've lived next to for years. I don't know the names of some of the newer ones. In EE they all invite me round, bring me food for their garden and I barely know their language.

You can't know how fucked WE is until you've been to EE.
 
Mandingo's greatest hits, per others, I quote:

"Most cucked guy on the forum"

"muh diversity"

"politics obsessed"

Talking bullshit, Tiger, me? Go visit Eastern Europe man or go witness the immigration dynamic. You're out of your lane bro.
 

RedKurrant

Sparrow
Heuristics said:
Getting excited about the situation in based Hungary is premature and ignores the true dynamic of the EU and its new members on the frontier. Look at the larger Continental picture, before we turn to discussing Hungary:

UK has a massive number of third worlders who outbreed the brits. EE immigrants there are taking all the jobs, driving down wages, and will continue to do regardless of Brexit because they're already going to be grandfathered in. While being free from the EU is a good thing you can be sure that the one thing that won't change is the ongoing demographic decline.

France has a massive number of Muslims, who only continue to grow in number. In particular, immigrants, as the number increases, the problems and discord increase. Marseilles is a no-go zone, I can confirm having spent time there. Don't visit, fucking dangerous. The Parisian suburbs are also very dangerous and I was lucky I wasn't beat up the last time I was in Paris. The French are watching their country burn with Macron at the helm, he's the new figure for Contiental immigration, and if the investment banker in him has any say, they will accelerate the movement of third-worlders to his country, as well as other countries. Whatever inertia the yellowvest movement has, is gone. Populism has failed again-co-opted by the elites for the 5 millionth time.

Peaceful little Belgium is a breeding ground for terrorism, the intellegence services and police are overwhelmed, the evidence on that is publicly available. The last conversation I had with a liberal belgian, he insisted there were no no-go-zones. That's completely false. Parts of Brussels looks like the middle east. Good thing in the West there's generous welfare.

Sweden is dealing with a spate of grenade attacks (mainly from third-worlders and immigrants from the Balkans), police can't enter areas because they or ambulances will be attacked. The media continues to supress all disagreement and counter-narratives because Marxism and white guilt, which has tremendous power in a high-trust humanitarian oriented collectivist society like Sweden. That will be their downfall. Swedes and their fellow nordic brethen continue having massive amounts of casual sex and not settling down while the immigrants outbreed them and enjoy subsidized housing. Meanwhile Swedes can't get an apartment.

Germany, ground zero for the whole phenomenon is a mess. Kids with braided hair are suggested to have Nazi parents per material given to teachers and parents. Germans continue to work themselves to death, not having kids and indulging in massive amounts of recreational drugs. The German government keeps pushing white guilt on the population despite world war II ending 70 plus years ago. The Turkish population is never going back to Turkey (so there is a parallel state in Germany) and neither are any of the refugees, many who by law should be deported but are not because their presumed countries will not take them. There has been a massive number of attacks on refugee centers so some portion of the population is angry, yet Merkel is still in power. The German economic powerhouse exploits cheap labor, and sells it to their population as redemption from World War II—helping poor people.

Poland, while based, will be eventually forced to cede to the EU’s demands to let migrants in. Yes they have a rightist government, but the economy is simply the biggest issue for the Poles. They’ll roll over to the EU that way the populist government has something to run on for the next elections. For all the guys gaming there, the situation is very temporary and soon you’ll see plenty of migrants there. Put simply, if the Poles don’t comply with EU’s demands they’ll get kicked out. That’s not a reality Poles want to live with. The country in many ways is surviving off of remittances being sent from the UK and other Western Countries. They can’t lose that lifeline for their citizens who face a somewhat undesirable domestic job situation.

In Austria women are wearing hijabs to avoid street harassment. Even though the government is populist again, the EU calls the shots. A ton of rapes are happening there, and as one of the centers of globalism (Vienna in particular) nothing will change.

Italy is in shambles. Ever seen how many 30 year old Italians live with their mothers? That’s counterproductive to having kids. Italians also are leaving their hometowns in massive numbers so all these communities are dying. EU did nothing to stop corruption and business as usual there. On top of that, they were the landing point for the migrants, the Italians are largely mad about that, but then again they don’t have to worry much because the migrants move onto the nicer Western core countries of the EU.

Ukraine continues to be a massive shithole much like Russia. Many Ukrainians go to Poland. There is no EU anytime soon, as corruption continues to paralyze the place not to mention the proxy war in the East that has caused living standards to noticeably decrease.

Greece was always a lost cause and in many ways the situation is similar to Italy. While the immigration situation to the west has stabilized for greeks, living standards have stagnated and no one is having a family. No one can afford to.

The Balkans, next frontier of European expansion are a mess: likely they will be the cross the EU dies on given the volatility of the region, if not Russia/ Ukraine. Massive amounts of corruption are being ignored to accelerate the expansion project which demands cheap, transient labor. If you think the economy is weak in a place like Poland, and others, boy is it bad in the Balkans. Autocratic tendencies of many Balkan leaders are being ignored, which really shows you how anti-democratic the EU is. It's a geopolitical game to expand european influence while neutering Russia.

Russia, although only partly Europe is a key example of misplaced hopes among European natalists who somehow think Putin is reversing the decline. First of all, Russia is massively multi-ethnic, much like the US, so in any meaningful sense their fate is already sealed. Yes, more people are going to church but state religion is being used as a cultural zeitgeist to placate the population while their country suffers from massive graft, economic mismanagement and demographic decline. You could say in simplier terms the church is a low-risk outlet for civic oriented russian nationalism, which is exactly what putin wants. HIV/ AIDs huge problem there because of drug use. Alcoholism still a massive problem but only decreased because the living standards finally improved after the breakup of the Soviet Union, that was bound to happen period because communism is always more shitty than capitalism. Abortions have dropped, but holy shit do the Russians like to abort. The economy is shit and thus people will have very few kids. Another element of the dynamic ignored is that there is massive immigration from FSU states/ Russian states like Uzbekistan, Georgia, Caucuses, etc. No one knows how many but it’s a lot. Need you remember the places have much higher birthrates than the ethnic Russian-slavic population. The improvements have been marginal, but one thing for sure: Russia is a place in decline, and has been for quite some time now. Russia's wealth class makes every effort possible to get out of the country physically as well as getting their money out. The kids they have are raised in the West. Simply put, the population that has the most of a stake in Russia has already cashed their chips in and walked away. That tells you all you need to know about the place's future.

And Hungary: yes Orban is nationalist. He expelled the Soros hydra. Good for him. But life there and in other Eastern European places is still shit. The might of Hungary is nothing compared to the France/ Germany dominated EU. They will meet the EU’s demands or be expelled like Poland. The fact that they have minimal migrants is just a temporary thing. How populist is your populism if the EU gets a veto on it? That’s my question.

No one in Eastern Europe is having kids, and the incentives are going to do little. Divorces are high. The incentives plus promotion of natalism has been tried in Russia, among others, and they’ve only had a small effect.

The EU is fundamentally anti-democratic, anti-european (because it is pro-immigrant to feed the belly of the beast), and globalist in nature. The Hungarians may have some small victories, but the war is what counts. Orban will follow their orders or else he’s out of office. Hungary is fundamentally diluted populism as are many of the other national governments. The choice they will never make is the choice to leave the EU… And that tells you all you need to know. At the end of the day, Brussels wins yet again.

Probably one of the most hyperbolic posts I've seen on this forum
 

DarkTriad

Ostrich
Gold Member
RawGod said:
Buried in that article is the increase of the Total Fertility Rate from 1.23 to 1.50 from 2010 to 2017. It's a start but replacement fertility has not been reached yet.

They've got a long time to work on it. Once you invite in a hostile group that's outbreeding you, you're eventually going to get Lebanoned.
 
Robert High Hawk said:
Mage said:
Heuristics said:
And Hungary: yes Orban is nationalist. He expelled the Soros hydra. Good for him. But life there and in other Eastern European places is still shit. The might of Hungary is nothing compared to the France/ Germany dominated EU. They will meet the EU’s demands or be expelled like Poland. The fact that they have minimal migrants is just a temporary thing. How populist is your populism if the EU gets a veto on it? That’s my question.

That moment when you live in EE and someone calls your whole life shit.

Don't believe anything this person writes ever again.

Living in EE has been the 2nd best option behind WE and USA or Canada for last decades and while behind west economically (and only west, and the few Asian tigers), EE is still in top 10% of world. Now with migrant crisis and leftism crisis, I know of no better place to live in the world then EE, where these problems are mostly non-existent.

I always mistrust these people who call 99% of the world a shithole. Probably living in some super high income but leftist infested big city themselves. Lost touch with simpler living and unable to survive without the very crutches that enable the super degenerate lifestyle.

I lived in parts of Western Germany, and let me say life there can be pretty awful. Life in many parts of the US can also be awful, just not materially so, but soul sucking. Cultural poverty is in many ways worse than financial poverty.

There's a phenomenon that happens with many developed countries where people become paper rich but resource poor. I think this is by design. Let's look at Puerto Rico for example:

Average dude there is broke financially, probably get some form of welfare. But land is very cheap and available (it's not expensive real estate), so he can easily live in a pretty large place, and grow some things for food, or certainly his neighbors can. There's many "poor" people living along beautiful beaches and fishing for a living. Waking up everyday to an amazing view and a tranquil life. His neighbors all speak the same language, have the same cultural identity, history, familiarity, etc... so he always feels very connected, "safe" and at home, allowing him much less stress and more mental energy to pursue towards enjoying life or investing in the community (playing dominos, joining a civic club, blowing league, etc...)

There's crappy infrastructure and poor regulation! Well that means that government has few means to control your life. Since everyone is paper poor, taxes are either not paid or are kept affordable, more people own their own cars, which don't have crazy standards like the US or Germany, so they can actually just drive around an old beater that cost nothing - more freedom. Property taxes are kept very affordable by necessity. The poor infrastructure means you are more self reliant and reliant on your community.

Perhaps some areas of EE have a similar dynamic. I don't know what kind of soul crushing legacy communism left on the area though. Some parts of EE looked pretty depressed, but then again, I don't live there, and many people think the same about areas of PR, until they actually stay there for a bit and find that magically their mental and physical health is improving almost like magic (could be just the weather though, although this effect does not exist like this in Florida).

People who are paper rich but resource poor are absolutely and utterly dependent on the government and corporations. They have nice clean areas to live in, plenty of oppulance, but can do absolutely nothing without that constant flow of money. Absolute wage slavery. Young women are especially attracted to all this vain lifestyle, and we know what the end result is in many cases. It's the epitome of a consumerist lifestyle, all controlled by a few oligarchs to make sure you are satiated enough to keep making them richer and never expect to do anything meaningful in your life.

To be clear, the paper poor, resource rich lifestyle is much, much harder. You have to sacrifice many comforts, deal with frustrations and endless delays. It's a trade off.

I really like what you said here. Materialistic opulence vs Social opulence and fulfillment. It's hard to achieve fulfillment through material things, its an endless cycle where novelty wears off of each new thing you acquire. The Anglo countries (especially the US) emphasize on this a lot. While I was in Italy and Southern France back in 2017. I stayed for 2 months and while I observed that the average citizen was not as wealthy as the US citizen per-se, lifestyle was so much better. It gets depressing here in the US seeing homeless and drug addicts on the streets, the shitty architecture of so-called "concrete jungles", propaganda getting shoved down your throat daily and a culture centered around workaholicism. Even though I was on vacation, you could easily tell that local citizens were generally fulfilled with their lives. I don't see people worrying about living paycheck to paycheck, people are not as depressed and lonely as social interaction is encouraged more often here than in the US where each worker is a lonely pawn in a city of people looking to stab you in the back for a promotion. Despite all the protests in Europe now and nationalism/populism rising, life in Europe IS better. The US is a police state, if it wasn't I guarantee you we would see people protesting the fact that many people dont earn a living wage, that were one of the only developed countries in the world without a good healthcare system and that corportatists dictate our lives and on corruption levels far beyond the European Union.
 
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