"Sorry" vs. "Excuse me"

[Cobra]

I think people are over focusing on saying sorry. If you're a decent guy that genuinely wants to say sorry without FEELING submissive or ACTING submissive, then I would say go ahead.

By the same token, if you want to use other words to show your courtesy, also go ahead. Point is you're being courteous and that's not the same as being submissive. I've met many cool people using it as an opener.

And be careful about eliminating words out of your vocabulary because people say a certain word is not masculine. You're masculine. What you say should sound masculine no matter what it is as should the congruency of that to your body language.

I can see myself bumping into a girl and saying "I'm soo sorry I bumped into you ... Blah blah.. But am I really...." With a smirk on my face as I walk closer to her.

Body language, vibe, delivery and feeling are so much more important than what you say as I'm still learning.

 

[Praetor Lupus]

I have this fantasy of getting pressured to make a public apology for something I said. I step up to the podium, seeing all the stern faces staring at me. I say "Many people have felt that what I said was inappropriate. I just want to say sincerely, that...I'm at peace with that. Thank you."

Evil maniacal laugh or false humility is a stylistic choice at this point. Oh man, can't wait for the day.

If only a politician would do this.

I would respect them so much more, even if they'd insulted me directly.

 

[Praetor Lupus]

I think people are over focusing on saying sorry. If you're a decent guy that genuinely wants to say sorry without FEELING submissive or ACTING submissive, then I would say go ahead.

By the same token, if you want to use other words to show your courtesy, also go ahead. Point is you're being courteous and that's not the same as being submissive. I've met many cool people using it as an opener.
...
Body language, vibe, delivery and feeling are so much more important than what you say as I'm still learning.

I get what you're saying, but for me, 'sorry' is a beige word. Like Tuth pointed out, it's been rendered meaningless. You have access to words and expressions that mean so much more.

"Pardon me", when delivered right, is still as polite as you like but because it's not used as much in conversation, it has more impact. It suggests you have a high standard of good manners.

 

[Dragonstone]

I have notice that whenever I bump into someone or almost do (mostly at work--I work in a store), I quickly say sorry. I have tried several times to get myself to say "excuse me" instead, but I have been so focused on ensuring customers arent butthurt that I end up being deferential. Sorry is a submissive word. Excuse me is more neutral and pleasant. A few days ago, I bumped into someone and said sorry and then cursed myself and repeatedly said Excuse me for a moment to try to remind myself.

I've noticed that customers are far worse when you say "sorry" rather than almost any other word. The behavior after that word gets mentioned borders on something you see during Shark Week.

I also think some of the behavior I've seen in relation to that word is exactly because it signifies lower status, with all that implies.

I agree with the posters above, better to cut almost all uses of that word out of our vocabulary.

 

[Catch 22]

Acceptable Alpha "excuses":

"Errors have been made." (Actually used that one often coupled with a smirk.)

Lolfr

May as well just break out a roll of Mentos

 

[zaqan]

My main issue is that I say sorry every time I almost run into someone, customer or coworker. Coworkers (especially females), I just blame them for being in the way. Customers, I worry too much about and say sorry. Even if it is appropriate, its way overused and excuse me or oops would be more appropriate for a near collision. This isnt even about alpha/beta stuff. The word is way overused and inappropriately used.

 

[Chaos]

Interesting. Americans and Canadians uses "sorry" all the fucking time. Almost like Swedes all the time responds with "fun" or "exciting" in Swedish when you are speaking with about things that are certainly not fun or exciting. It seems like those thing are on autopilot for a lot of people.

However, as not a native English speaker I'm curious to know what you guys who don't use "sorry" or "excuse me " are using in a situation when you want somebody's attention in a polite way?

Example if you are having a business dinner at a fancy place together with some important people you want to close a deal with and you want to call over the waitress/waiter. Which word are you using? Or are you smacking their ass red? I guess you don't want to give a dramatic picture of yourself.

 

[The Beast1]

I hate the word sorry.

Use "my bad", "my apologies", but never sorry.

 

[Cobra]

OP, your thread title should have been "worrying too much." It's obvious for me that's what the real issue is. Learn to be IDGAF and develop your frame instead of focusing on what to say and not to say. You already know what to say judging from all your posts; you just have a hard time making them congruent to your overall frame.

It's easy for the rest of us to respond to a thread title but seeing the actual problem, I can't help but reiterate.

Words like sorry and excuse me are also cultural. Just because you use a certain one all the time doesn't mean shit when certain situations or locations call for something else.

Walk into the hood? Say "My bad," not sorry. Walk into a snotty upper class area instead, say "pardon me." So far I was thinking USA but walk into other countries, look up what to say or ask a random girl.

 

[jamaicabound]

Interesting topic. Sometimes when I think stuff like this I'm like am I really going to analyze every little thing I do?

THis is an interesting point though. I was just in Target or somewhere the other day and just second nature said sorry when I turned a corner sharply and was about to bump into me. The guy I almost bumped into didn't say anything to me and kinda walked by.

I think sorry is sorta submissive and taking on fault yourself where as excuse me is like you said more neutral. I notice when I say excuse me, sometimes I have an asshole tone my gf tells me even when I'm not trying to be a dick but other people apologize or make way where as when you say sorry its like your the one at fault and other people look at you a certain way. Interesting point.

 

[Kickb]

I stepped on a guys backpack while trying to get to my seat in class and said "My bad"

Was that beta

 

[RIslander]

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

yep, I am doing the same thing. Striking the word sorry from my vocabulary. I have even caught a couple of times and squelched it as soon as my tongue touched my front teeth.

A great phrase to use, if you want to be insulting/flippant to someone who is fishing for an apology is President Ronnie Reagan's "Mistakes were made".

 

[Kaizen]

HOW you say Sorry gives it meaning.

You can say it while making it clear you are not sorry.

 

[Cobra]

I wouldn't strike anything from your vocabulary until you've gained enough social proficiency to be able to connect with people.

Once you believe you can, think about what you "did" (not said) that caused a certain positive reaction and what caused negatives. Take the negative away. Rinse, repeat.

I'm not all the way either, but I do believe one man's sorry is another man's pussy pass.

Game is not a script as I continue to realize every single day. Create and refine; don't stick to one and restrict yourself.

 

[Skye]

HOW you say Sorry gives it meaning.

You can say it while making it clear you are not sorry.

I believe the general board consensus is it is so often used without meaning or with contradictory meaning that it now has no meaning or is inappropriate for a sincere apology.

 

[Rigsby]

I have notice that whenever I bump into someone or almost do (mostly at work--I work in a store), I quickly say sorry. I have tried several times to get myself to say "excuse me" instead, but I have been so focused on ensuring customers arent butthurt that I end up being deferential. Sorry is a submissive word. Excuse me is more neutral and pleasant. A few days ago, I bumped into someone and said sorry and then cursed myself and repeatedly said Excuse me for a moment to try to remind myself.

It may seem a bit mundane, but its all about how you carry yourself around. Theres no need to be submissive and apologize for an accident. Furthermore, it dilutes the actual times you really do need to say sorry for something (a major screw up, where someone is furious at you). If you are apologizing all the time, they will notice, and the real ones will seem fake.

Has anyone else experienced this trying to rewire what you say naturally, whether its this or something else? There are a lot of words and ways to say things that can be upsetting or grating. Another example is but. Ive tried to eliminate that for two reasons: it either sounds whiny, or it sounds abrupt. Especially when talking to managers, saying however and and are much more pleasant and flowing ways to alter the direction of what you are saying.

"I moved all the stuff, but I didnt get to set it up." — Its a sharp pause that can jerk someone subconsciously.
"I moved all the stuff, however I didnt get to set it up." — much smoother

There is also "no" vs. "not yet". Whenever a manager or someone asks if I did something and they expect me to say yes, I just say not yet, which implies it will be done, is much smoother, and doesnt pack the punch of NO.

When in Germany or Austria, learn the difference between your Ent Entschuldigung's and your Ent shuldigen Sie's.

I don't know, but there is a difference. I once bumbed into this old dear at Munich train station on the way to Vienna and I nearly knocked her flying, accident of course. I said Ent shuldigen sie and she just melted in my hands. It is very important to learn the local lingo, even if it is just for dumb stuff like this. Not so dumb really. I swear she wanted to kill me before I said that.

 

[zaqan]

OP, your thread title should have been "worrying too much." It's obvious for me that's what the real issue is. Learn to be IDGAF and develop your frame instead of focusing on what to say and not to say. You already know what to say judging from all your posts; you just have a hard time making them congruent to your overall frame.

It's easy for the rest of us to respond to a thread title but seeing the actual problem, I can't help but reiterate.

Words like sorry and excuse me are also cultural. Just because you use a certain one all the time doesn't mean shit when certain situations or locations call for something else.

Walk into the hood? Say "My bad," not sorry. Walk into a snotty upper class area instead, say "pardon me." So far I was thinking USA but walk into other countries, look up what to say or ask a random girl.

I think the main thing is overuse. Saying sorry every time you ALMOST bump into someone is ridiculous. Excuse me seems more appropriate. There are times when sorry can be used, but it shouldnt be so trivialized. Its part of being aware of what the hell you are doing in your day to day life, and words can alter your mindset, and thus frame. See the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity But of course getting too worked up about what one says prevents them from saying it.

 

[zaqan]

An update to this: Presently, I almost never say sorry to anyone, even superiors. If I get caught in the wrong at work, I sarcastically shift blame, sometimes into absurdity. When I bump into people even customers at work, they seem to say sorry first. I say nothing or "oh, excuse me". I can recall one time I slipped in the past few weeks.

But it can be done with an aggressive mental restructuring. Just keep beating at it and eventually you will realize that you did it.

 

[eatthishomie]

Stop saying I'm sorry so much.

Think about what you are saying when you say

I'm sorry.

what you are saying is

Gee, I sure am a sorry motherfucker.
(and by sorry I mean pathetic and pitiful. I am pathetic and pitiful because I did xxxxx.)

And why are you saying this? Because you misheard someone? Because you almost bumped into someone (god forbid)? Come on! Save "I'm sorry" for if/when you cause some actual serious damage. Then "I'm sorry" carries the weight that it should.