Southern Baptist president calls for members to declare: ‘Black lives matter’

Nacho

Sparrow
I would say Protestantism is a man's religion, because you aren't expected to kiss the hand of your male pastor, and you aren't expected to pray to a woman..

Bro you kidding me? You obviously have never set foot in an Eastern Orthodox church. That's about as based as you can get. Nothing more 'manly' than comporting yourself in a dignified manner before the throne of God in a liturgical service.

Protestantism oozes the feminist spirit with their constant church splits, power struggles, and god awful tacky 'new age' church services. Good luck with that bro while ya'll will soon be waving the rainbow flag of surrender. I'll stick with the faith of the apostles and church fathers.
 
Bro you kidding me? You obviously have never set foot in an Eastern Orthodox church. That's about as based as you can get. Nothing more 'manly' than comporting yourself in a dignified manner before the throne of God in a liturgical service.

Protestantism oozes the feminist spirit with their constant church splits, power struggles, and god awful tacky 'new age' church services. Good luck with that bro while ya'll will soon be waving the rainbow flag of surrender. I'll stick with the faith of the apostles and church fathers.
While I am as yet undecided as to the best Christian denomination to belong to, it is foolish to lump all Protestants together. For all those complaints, there are churches that do not manifest those problems.
 

Nacho

Sparrow
While I am as yet undecided as to the best Christian denomination to belong to, it is foolish to lump all Protestants together. For all those complaints, there are churches that do not manifest those problems.

You mean the *shrinking* number of churches in various Protestant circles. What do you think it's going to look like within another generation? I'm afraid it's a sinking ship and the proof is before your very feet in the topic of this thread. Orthodoxy in my opinion will eventually be the only church body to resist the whims of this new age because we are the only one's that have mantained the same faith for 2000 years.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
There are some militant Protestant and Evangelical denominations dotting the rural American countryside, and they're not the type to let their kids trundle off to the city and get pozzed.

They're going to keep on keeping on or the Feds are going to have to WACO them one at a time with eventually disastrous results.
 

Hermetic Seal

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
You mean the *shrinking* number of churches in various Protestant circles. What do you think it's going to look like within another generation? I'm afraid it's a sinking ship and the proof is before your very feet in the topic of this thread.

I'm reminded of this excerpt from a video of Father Josiah Trenham (around 4:00-6:00) where he talks about how the ongoing compromises within Protestant churches was a major reason he became Eastern Orthodox. It's a powerful argument. I've watched many churches I've been a part of kowtow to the leftist cultural agenda and I haven't been part of a single one that stood their ground.
 

Nacho

Sparrow
I'm reminded of this excerpt from a video of Father Josiah Trenham (around 4:00-6:00) where he talks about how the ongoing compromises within Protestant churches was a major reason he became Eastern Orthodox. It's a powerful argument. I've watched many churches I've been a part of kowtow to the leftist cultural agenda and I haven't been part of a single one that stood their ground.

It's not only that but it goes to the fact that Proetestantism was doomed for failure from the beginning because it was a house built on a faulty foundation. Martin Luther was de facto his own arbiter of truth and stood outside the larger tradition of the church. Shortly thereafter other reformers like Zwingli and Calvin were already in disagreement with each other over such matters as the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. It's why there are thousands of denominations today. The encroaching leftist agenda into many of these churches is a symptom of a larger part of a problem that goes to the core.
 

Athanasius

Pelican
What the SBC is doing now is their attempt to "make up" for their past.

They're pushing racial diversity in the denomination as if it is a goal to aspire to. Preaching is increasingly watered down (building a sermon from one verse alone and out of context, constantly referencing office/marital relationships, and overrun by cliches), sermons are shortened to 15 mins or so in many churches, and there is very little desire for evangelism. The gospel is not preached much at all anymore. I long for the days when the gospel is preached each week as part of the sermon. In the heartland of the SBC (where I live), it has come to be expected that everyone you come in contact with is a Christian anyway and there is therefore no point in evangelism.

Many churches are much more concerned with funding stadium seating, concert lighting, and new buildings for the church campus than they are in putting money toward the propagation of the gospel. There is still an almost condescending attitude from the older generations toward blacks as if black friends are like friendly servants and as if black children are cute pet monkeys, while the younger generation sees them as evidence of change and an argument in their favor in their efforts to appear woke enough for modern society.

In many areas of the Deep South, there is an almost constant attempt for young whites to distance themselves from "those whites" and to conform themselves to the image of the coastal pop elites. However, not all is lost on this front. There are many unapologetic hard working patriotic Christians in every generation here and, to a degree, a large portion of society takes great pleasure on being derided as backwards by the rest of the country: "If this is backwards, I'm proud to be backwards."

Agreed, except that I'm not convinced this is even a well-meaning attempt to make up for the past. Baptists have been doing that for years thanks to the church growth movement. I think the racial topic and sexual abuse allegations are being used by change agents to subvert the denomination and push everything from open borders to intersectionalism to feminism to homosexuality. This is at least partially an attempt to suppress the evangelical vote, as evangelicals are perhaps the most powerful right wing block in the country despite their weaknesses.
 

soridosnek

Chicken
I recall John Piper in a certain infamous interview gave a half-baked, non-Scriptural answer to the question of "Should men listen to Beth Moore?" That was a few years ago, so this further slide by the SBC doesn't really shock me all that much. In a larger sense, this is why I've come to despise the whole "seeker friendly" evangelism movement. In the famous Sermon on the Mount, Jesus reminds us that salt must remain salty or it should be thrown out and trampled (paraphrased from Matthew 5:13-14). "Seeker friendly" reminds me a lot of beta game. You bedazzle congregants with MK Ultra style concerts, encourage their materialism with Jeremiah 29:7 (looking at you Keller & Osteen) and lure people in with "fellowship", or indulging in generic bread & circuses with a holy cherry on top. Church just becomes a social gathering with some minor Christian aesthetic. How in the world is this supposed to be a city on a hill? It's like the pastors forgot that holy literally means "set apart". I remember a Dalrock article about how Christian feminists are more dangerous than typical leftist ones because they think their hypergamy is God-ordained. Similarly, watered down Christianity is more dangerous than generic consumerism because it creates a holy aura around consumption.

And I don't want to just point fingers. I'm supposed to be a teacher and uncle figure in my church but sometimes I catch myself trying to play this "cool gamer nerd" persona for the kids. With adults like me acting like children, how in the world are they to develop the holy disciplines and fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:21-22) needed to mature as believers? Unfortunately with the world being as it is I find it imperative to remember Colossians 3's and Romans 12's advice to set our minds on the things above.

To get back to the point of the topic, the SBC similarly needs to get its act together.
 

Max Roscoe

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Southern Baptists used to be pretty hard-core in their beliefs. But the upper leadership that goes to these national conferences has been trying to liberalize the church for years. The same thing is just around the corner for the Methodist Church. I was raised in the Methodist Church. The church where my grandparents installed the baptismal font now flies a rainbow flag. The church a few blocks away that I attended is on the verge of rebellion over this very issue.

We will probably see the church split into two Methodist denominations in the future, or at least that was my view up until one month ago. The way things are today, I'm not sure there is enough support to sustain a church that doesn't accept homosexuality so they may just make all Methodist churches pro-gay.

Most of us don't have any problem with homosexuality per se. While I absolutely believe people are indoctrinated and this is being pushed on people that otherwise would not call themselves "gay", I believe that a small percentage of people have same sex attraction. Whether they are sinning when they act on this is a difficult question, but what is more important is that the church not promote extramarital sexuality--that is by definition fornication.

The church should welcome all that embrace Christ. But to specifically say something like "Bank Robbers Welcome Here" is a confusing message. The church should not celebrate theft any more than it should celebrate straight or gay fornication. If there are going to be 50 different protestant denominations why don't they just make one called Homosexual Protestants and they can be people who follow Christ but also allow homosexuality? Why does it need to invade our straight family oriented churches?

Why are we allowed to have 50 different views on all sorts of minutia about our faith in all the various denominations, but they all must in unison agree that gay sex is good?

 
I'm reminded of this excerpt from a video of Father Josiah Trenham (around 4:00-6:00) where he talks about how the ongoing compromises within Protestant churches was a major reason he became Eastern Orthodox. It's a powerful argument. I've watched many churches I've been a part of kowtow to the leftist cultural agenda and I haven't been part of a single one that stood their ground.
[/QUOTE]

Father Josiah Trenham has some good things to say. However, he is a man with long hair. I'm not a fan of long hair on a man. I like it when men have short hair and women have long hair.
 
There are some militant Protestant and Evangelical denominations dotting the rural American countryside, and they're not the type to let their kids trundle off to the city and get pozzed.

They're going to keep on keeping on or the Feds are going to have to WACO them one at a time with eventually disastrous results.
Yeah, those churches are around. They're generally despised at "cultish" by the majority of local small town folks. I agree with that assessment.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't be rushing to join one. I think they're operating under good intentions but with extreme error. I understand their origins. Life on the frontier and later in the hinterlands has always been something of a harsh affair that affords zero pissing about without serious consequences. It's easy enough as a Catholic to talk about forgiveness when your day to day survival doesn't rely on being iron-fisted. In civilization your daughter getting pregnant out of wedlock is horrible but easily survivable. On the edge of civilization the same scenario can be catastrophic for your whole family. The fire and brimstone routine was a matter of survival out there if nothing else, and tradition carries to this day.
 
It all begins with supporting feminism. Once your church does that it is done. Complete cuckoldry is inevitable and the real men will leave. That is one of the many reasons why Protestant Christianity is considered to be a woman's religion.
No church is immune from this. Don't think any church which is based will escape the poz.

It's prophesied even
 
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Athanasius

Pelican
Southern Baptists used to be pretty hard-core in their beliefs. But the upper leadership that goes to these national conferences has been trying to liberalize the church for years. The same thing is just around the corner for the Methodist Church. I was raised in the Methodist Church. The church where my grandparents installed the baptismal font now flies a rainbow flag. The church a few blocks away that I attended is on the verge of rebellion over this very issue. We will probably see the church split into two Methodist denominations in the future, or at least that was my view up until one month ago. The way things are today, I'm not sure there is enough support to sustain a church that doesn't accept homosexuality so they may just make all Methodist churches pro-gay.

Liberalism has long been ascendant in the US UMC, despite exceptions at the local level. Worldwide, some of the worst excesses have been checked by the more conservative African churches and that I think is one of the reasons for the split. I can't attend any denomination that ordains women to the pastorate/eldership or deaconate.

Most of us don't have any problem with homosexuality per se. While I absolutely believe people are indoctrinated and this is being pushed on people that otherwise would not call themselves "gay", I believe that a small percentage of people have same sex attraction.

The conservative church has always gladly accepted repentant sodomites. We all struggle with sin and remaining corruption. However, the subversives are currently telling us that the homosexual act is wrong, but there's nothing wrong with having the desires or acting effiminate. Also, there's nothing wrong with identifying as a "gay" Christian. Now, of course, anyone who knows 19th and 20th century church history knows they are just doing this as a halfway house to their desired destination (full denominational collapse on the issue). This is how liberals always operate in conservative denominations. But in addition to that, the desire and the identification are evil. Effeminacy is evil. Take another sin and it becomes clear: There's nothing wrong with you dreaming about murdering people as long as you don't do it. We can call you a Murder Christian.

If there are going to be 50 different protestant denominations why don't they just make one called Homosexual Protestants and they can be people who follow Christ but also allow homosexuality? Why does it need to invade our straight family oriented churches?

Well, I don't believe there is any such thing as a homosexual Christian any more than there's an Adultery Christian. The devil and his followers always corrupt. They aren't going to stay where they are any more than the destroyers of Western culture will.
 

bmw633

Woodpecker
The SBC caved in to BLM ideology about three years ago when at the request of certain black pastors they started removing certain "alleged" white supremacy churches from their association.

With that said, I can only go by my own experience on the SBC. When I was growing up I was always told they were all going to hell, but then, everyone was going to hell who didn't belong to my church. Funny, I always said that Twisted Sister's song "Burn in Hell" was the IFB theme song. Anyways, I've only been to a couple of Southern Baptist churches, the last one being my ex mother in laws church. What a show! It was the same thing every Sunday. It starts out with a mini concert with the music leader a fat, balding man trying to be hip banging on a guitar with his band behind him, kicking up his feet like he is Pete Townshend or something. On one side would be a group of little teeny bopper girls dressed provocatively gyrating around, I could only stare at the floor the whole time to keep from sinnning in the Lord's house. This would go on for a good while. Then the preacher would come out on stage, walking out like he was in a commercial. He would start in on how great it is, open his Bible, read a verse, say something positive and then, slicker than snot, he would go into a sales pitch, all the while on all the walls would be projected verses concerning giving and so on. This was the main thing, money. They even had their own store in the church where they sold "Christian" stuff and books. Gee Whiz, I could barely stomach it.

When I first met that wife, who is now an ex, she dragged me off to another SBC church with the intention of seeing how I would act. I sat through the service and afterwards went home and played with my dog. She was upset, what is wrong with you she says? Huh? What do you mean? You act as if you have no soul, no heart. All the men I have ever taken to church always broke down and crawled up to the altar begging forgiveness and giving their lives to Christ. I busted out laughing, seriously, this pathetic attempt at being church phased me not one bit. You see, I was born and raised in a hardcore, hellfire and brimstone Independent Fundamental Baptist church. You gotta do much better than that if you want me to break down.

So many of the mega churches of all denominations are basically TV infomercials. The songs that are projected onto the screens are pathetic compared to the traditional hymns we sang when I was a child. I felt more a part of a studio audience than a participant in a church.
 
It is increasingly obvious in the Southern Baptist Convention in particular, that Churches generally follow the trends of other churches and even try to outdo them as if churches are competing businesses. Many of the modernist trends in churches such as dimly lit sanctuaries, shortened sermons, concert-esque production, modernist architecture, and new-agey names for things are not implemented because there is a public demand for them, but because the people in charge think "it's what they secretly want, they just don't know it yet." They manufacture demand for certain things instead of letting demand naturally occur.

This being said, demand for change should be very minimal in the first place. If the congregation is being nourished by the Word, praising their Creator reverently through song, and engaging in deep and meaningful fellowship with like-minded followers of Christ, the only demand for change should occur when the church building needs structural repair or if the congregation outgrows the meeting place.
 

bmw633

Woodpecker
I noticed that there were many traditions imported to the Baptist Church that alarmed me, such as Hanging Of The Greens, Advent, Lent, and The Living Christmas Tree, to name a few. None of these things are scriptural or were observed in the church I attended growing up.

I joined the Baptist Church in the small town I had moved to, and quickly, I was sought after to become a deacon, Sunday School teacher to kids, PA system operator, and named to a bunch of committees, all within a couple of years of joining the church. With a young family, it was overwhelming. And, I HATE church politics!!!

I finally dropped everything when the deacons turned down another Baptist Church down the road that requested the use of our church's baptismal pool. The beef was that that church didn't allow women deacons.
 
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't be rushing to join one. I think they're operating under good intentions but with extreme error. I understand their origins. Life on the frontier and later in the hinterlands has always been something of a harsh affair that affords zero pissing about without serious consequences. It's easy enough as a Catholic to talk about forgiveness when your day to day survival doesn't rely on being iron-fisted. In civilization your daughter getting pregnant out of wedlock is horrible but easily survivable. On the edge of civilization the same scenario can be catastrophic for your whole family. The fire and brimstone routine was a matter of survival out there if nothing else, and tradition carries to this day.
In the olden times where I live there were looser morals on premarital sex compared to the rest of the country. We were big on shotgun weddings though.
Honestly, I don't really respect separatist Protestants like the Apostolics or Holiness groups, to use a couple of examples that are prominent where I live. In my experience their women are controlling and their men are weak. It's even worse than your normal evangelical church.
 

godfather dust

Hummingbird
Gold Member
The most "sexist, homophobic" church I ever went to was a Pentecostal one. Woman were strongly encouraged to wear skirts/dresses and cover their heads. Homosexuals were encouraged to be excorcised or leave. It was mostly black people which probably kept the church from being scrutinized in a big city in Massachusetts.

I had to leave because as I got deeper I found they harbored some significant heresies in doctrine.
 
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